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The New Tier List

t3h Icy

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After a little over two months of debating Match-Ups, the Smash 64 Community have come up with the new and improved official Tier List. All of that can be found in this topic.

S Tier
(1)Pikachu
(2)Fox

A Tier
(3)Kirby
(4)Falcon
(5)Mario

B Tier
(6)Yoshi
(7)DK
(8)Ness
(9)Jigglypuff

C Tier
(10)Luigi
(11)Link
(12)Samus
 

t3h Icy

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Someone needs to get this updated at the SmashWiki. I would but I've never edited Wikis before and I don't want to make a mess. =P
 

Frogles

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pika is more awesome. doesn't really have a weakness to exploit like fox does (fast faller, very easily gimped) and he has advantage over every char on every stage.
 

Nybb

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I might have combined Middle and Low into one tier. I feel like the difference between DK and Puff is a lot smaller than the difference between Mario and Yoshi, or between Ness and Luigi. Plus, I think four tiers would be perfectly fine for a game with 12 characters.

And I would agree with Frogles that I would intuitively put Fox together with the High Tier, although the numbers from the matchup thread put him closer to Pikachu, so I really can't back up this claim with anything. lol

These are both pretty minor gripes. All in all, I really like this list, and I think the ordering is spot on. This is probably as accurate as it's going to get. Kudos to Icy and all the other contributors. This should get stickied and/or added to the FAQ
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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what happened how did ness fall that much? i mean wow this is a lot different, but its cool 64 got a new tier list.
 

Nintendude

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Ness dropped cause his approach is awful and his DJCs aren't as broken as we once thought they were (since his range sucks).

Overall I'm extremely happy with this tier list. The only change I'd make is group Yoshi, DK, Jiggly, and Ness into one tier (and then change bottom tier to low). They are all relatively close.
 

Kefit

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Ness dropped cause his approach is awful and his DJCs aren't as broken as we once thought they were (since his range sucks).

Overall I'm extremely happy with this tier list. The only change I'd make is group Yoshi, DK, Jiggly, and Ness into one tier (and then change bottom tier to low). They are all relatively close.
I agree with every word this man says. There is no compelling reason to split up the middle and low tier. That gap represents nothing, so it should be removed.

I'm surprised how well this list turned out, seeing as I disagree with and/or find a number of the matchups on the chart to be somewhat arbitrary.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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hmm weird i am surprised (but happy) that people are still working on 64 tier list and match-ups. i am still going to keep my love for jiggs and yoshi but i am surprised they yoshi is higher then jiggs now (makes it so when i beat my friends with yoshie i can't rub it in thier faces)

I thought people went to isai and asked him what the tier list was for 64 who knew others worked on it. jk

were is the best place to go to get a explanation for all the changes?
 

asianaussie

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There's a thread below this one - Match-up discussion.

If you take the time to read through (a chore, I know), you'll probably find all the reasoning you need.
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
I don't think we should have any one-character tiers (Pikachu, Yoshi, Samus). It would just create too many tiers, and make the chart messy. The chart as it currently is is good enough... though looking at the numbers themselves, I wouldn't complain to combining the middle and low tier. There should probably be some sort of vote though (as this list is a pretty big thing).

Edit: Using logic, the algorithm I was using would not work. If I'm still bored later, I'll finish it off just to see where I would have ended up.
 

Frogles

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i dont think bumping fox down to high would be creating any tiers. a tier list should focus on being accurate rather than pretty.
 

Pi

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But I like samus and I beat all my friends with her
I think she has got a lot of potential that you're overlooking

/sarcasm

neato, I'll memorize it to tell people kekeke
 

dch111

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Nice

I've still never found that gamefaqs post containing the old list.
 

asianaussie

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Link beat Ness in a TAS match :O
That means Link > Ness.

When we refer to potential, we don't mean TAS potential...I hope...

In a Japanese SSB tier list, I'd put Ness at High and Link at mid.
 

Surri-Sama

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When we refer to potential, we don't mean TAS potential...I hope...
.
i think this is the prefect way to explain the fact that most of the players who contributed to this chart, dont even know what we are looking at here!

How many people think this list should incorporate some things that you've seen only online....I know some of you did :)

It's also clear to see many people do not know at what level of play this tier is based on...i seen people saying jiggly can obliterate kirby because of an aerial approach and 0-death combos...does no one else see the problem here?

Regardless if you do or you do NOT this tier list/match-up chart will be further reviewed once we can actually see a BR in here...other then that....the legitimacy of the chart is questionable due to contributors not all being on the same page for the most part.

Sucks that I have to disagree with all of yous but it is what it is. I want to see a new tier list too but i think we need to properly gather our knowledge first then figure out the actual perimeters of what we are trying to create!
 

Blackshadow

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I thought we already justified the splitting of the tiers at this point...

Top: Pikachu, Fox
High: Kirby, Falcon, Mario
Mid: Yoshi, DK
Low: Jigglypuff, Ness
Bottom: Luigi, Link, Samus

kirby doesnt have any 70:30 match ups unlike fox and pikachu.
characters below mario have more bad match ups
everyone below DK has at least one 30:70 match up
everyone below ness has at least two 30:70 match ups
 

Superstar

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Problem is Surri is that every tier list has people disagreeing and believing the same thing as you are. Best we can do is just to take our best shot. Of course there will be errors, but roughly, compared to the previous, it is a better list and a "mostly" accurate matchup chart.

It's progress at least.
 

Surri-Sama

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Problem is Surri is that every tier list has people disagreeing and believing the same thing as you are. Best we can do is just to take our best shot. Of course there will be errors, but roughly, compared to the previous, it is a better list and a "mostly" accurate matchup chart.

It's progress at least.
I think you read half my post then stopped and wrote your own...either that or you ignored it.

I clearly stated a better means of "progressing" this list, and i also clearly stated why that is.

Post this on Wiki or get Wenbo to edit his thread and put this there if you want, it's all up to you guys at this point, but i do feel this list will be replaced, when? JV only knows by!
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
Well then if that is the case then it will be replaced. At least we have a better one now. If we change it in two weeks... well, what was lost in the last two weeks? It's not like we're saying this is the final smash 64 tier list or anything like that...
 

Superstar

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I think you read half my post then stopped and wrote your own...either that or you ignored it.

I clearly stated a better means of "progressing" this list, and i also clearly stated why that is.

Post this on Wiki or get Wenbo to edit his thread and put this there if you want, it's all up to you guys at this point, but i do feel this list will be replaced, when? JV only knows by!
but i think we need to properly gather our knowledge first then figure out the actual perimeters of what we are trying to create!
If this is your better method, note that this is actually impossible to do given how many people play SSB64. Which is why I ignored it. Not to mention, that could easily be refuted by people saying they did do that [which they did attempt to do, just not perfectly].
 

Surri-Sama

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If this is your better method, note that this is actually impossible to do given how many people play SSB64
impossible because you said so or because no one wants to do it?

my idea would be that the members of said BR would come up with a criteria first in order to establish are far more accurate list...
 

Superstar

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Impossible because it is.

I don't think you realize that in that topic, people were ACTUALLY trying to do what you mentioned. You're not saying anything new. The only thing you mentioned that wasn't attempted was a criteria. Like, anything involving Ness assumed perfect players [so that Ness' range was a huge weakness], but in some other matchups [like Jiggs vs Kirby], they went easier on the player's skill levels so that Jiggs wasn't entirely weak.

Other than that, you're telling them to do something they are already trying to do. You'd be better off saying how.
 

Surri-Sama

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maybe, but i always figured the controller of the whole thing would cover that.

and if the back room comes to pass i may do just that superstar ;)

"impossible because it is"

hah xD
 

Wenbobular

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I'll edit my thread when you put Fox in high :bee: I agree with Frogles that Pika is like, in a tier by himself.
 

Battlecow

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sigh. I like most of it. but I concur with the "pika in own tier" side of things, and I don't think that Samus is worse than Link. Also, I'd put Yoshi in low tier. although that would leave DK all by himself...

Whatever. it's a better list than the old one.
 

Gea

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I am still aghast about Ness falling by half the roster. Seems either a bit extreme or just indicative that the metagame evolved by that much. Though I guess it is notable to say that this tier list was done by matchups alone, which seems to shift our perceptions of a character overall.
 
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