The Lucas Counter?

[NFST4R]

A common complaint I have heard across the Project M community is how OP Lucas is. Ver. 3.0 introduced Mewtwo, and no one knew what to expect, but in my opinion we have found PM's God Tier. If you watched Low Tier City 2, you may have noticed that an unfamiliar face, Neon made it Grands against none other than M2K. The reason I say Mewtwo is the counter is because Mewtwo has F-Air, which stops Lucas' combo game (which is imperative to Lucas kills) and because he is not ground based. I was wondering if some of you could bounce ideas off of me to find the counter to Mewtwo and maybe further understand the character?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I don't think there is a real counter "character" to m2, yet. There are also other characters, such as mario and Marth can handle Lucas rather well.

 

[NFST4R]

That is true, for I play Mario against Lucas. Axe used Falco against Neon and dominated, I tested theories and found maybe falco can stop lucas well with lasers?

 

[Holla]

As a Mewtwo main I have to say that I cannot stand playing lucas players. While you are correct about how effective the F-air is against lucas, it is incredibly difficult for me to land on good lucas players because of how slippery he is. I fid my biggest troubles against lucas players is lucas's aerial game. Mewtwo players grow accustomed to having air superiority and to be combo'd in the air repeatedly becomes frustrating

 

[ComposedJam]

If anything lucas is a mewtwo counter, in my opinion.

lucas can kill of the top very early against mewtwo. (upsmash, upthrow)

lucas can mix up his recovery to make it harder for mewtwo to edge guard

lucas can combo mewtwo pretty easily because mewtwo is a large character.

lucas can outspam mewtwo with his pk freeze, forcing mewtwo to approach.

lucas can absorb shadowball from mewtwo.

the list goes on, really.

 

[NFST4R]

If anything lucas is a mewtwo counter, in my opinion.

lucas can kill of the top very early against mewtwo. (upsmash, upthrow)

lucas can mix up his recovery to make it harder for mewtwo to edge guard

lucas can combo mewtwo pretty easily because mewtwo is a large character.

lucas can outspam mewtwo with his pk freeze, forcing mewtwo to approach.

lucas can absorb shadowball from mewtwo.

the list goes on, really.

i see what you mean. This is interesting to know

 

[ComposedJam]

i see what you mean. This is interesting to know

Yeah, you just have to abuse your advantages. If you grab mewtwo and he's anywhere close to 100-110 just up throw him. Depending on the level you'll get the KO.

having trouble on neutral? don't bother approaching. Just wait for him to approach and hit him. Mewtwo's approach game isn't the best out there.

having trouble getting back on the ledge? you can magnet stall, up b, or tether. You can even cancel your tether into magnet and get a lucky stage spike sometimes.

Is he getting a little too liberal with the teleport? charge up an up smash and read the teleport (it's not hard) you'll get an easy KO.

keep in mind that half of his tail is a hurt box. I've had lucas use dair against me and only hit me because of my tail. Keep this in mind and abuse the **** out of it.

Hopefully that helps a little bit.

 

[NFST4R]

Yeah, you just have to abuse your advantages. If you grab mewtwo and he's anywhere close to 100-110 just up throw him. Depending on the level you'll get the KO.

having trouble on neutral? don't bother approaching. Just wait for him to approach and hit him. Mewtwo's approach game isn't the best out there.

having trouble getting back on the ledge? you can magnet stall, up b, or tether. You can even cancel your tether into magnet and get a lucky stage spike sometimes.

Is he getting a little too liberal with the teleport? charge up an up smash and read the teleport (it's not hard) you'll get an easy KO.

keep in mind that half of his tail is a hurt box. I've had lucas use dair against me and only hit me because of my tail. Keep this in mind and abuse the **** out of it.

Hopefully that helps a little bit.

Are you kidding!? This is awesome advice thank you so much!!!!

 

[InfinityCollision]

Lucas doesn't counter Mewtwo beyond the point where hovernair is the only thing Mewtwo does out of teleport. The matchup improves steadily (albeit slowly, as Lucas also develops well) as you move beyond that level. It's one of Mewtwo's closest matchups thanks to Lucas' many good traits, but it's not disadvantageous.

 

[EmuKiller]

Mewtwo has the advantage. Lucas has a tough time both getting in and recovering, so even though he 0-KOs you on certain stages, Mewtwo has the tools to not get hit. That being said once you get hit it's PRETTY ROUGH but you can deal a ton of damage to lucas when it's your turn to combo him so it's w/e.

Even though Mewtwo's approaches outside of hover after up-B are pretty weak, lucas can't really force Mewtwo to approach. If Mewtwo has control of the center of the stage, it's really hard for lucas to NOT approach. When pressured lucas has nowhere to run while Mewtwo can go anywhere he wants. Also PK Freeze isn't very good at keeping mewtwo out cause I'm pretty sure mewtwo can teleport in on reaction to lucas throwing it, but not 100% sure.

But as a disclaimer I'm pretty sure Neon would beat me :D

 

[victinivcreate1]

Mewtwo has the advantage. Lucas has a tough time both getting in and recovering, so even though he 0-KOs you on certain stages, Mewtwo has the tools to not get hit. That being said once you get hit it's PRETTY ROUGH but you can deal a ton of damage to lucas when it's your turn to combo him so it's w/e.

Even though Mewtwo's approaches outside of hover after up-B are pretty weak, lucas can't really force Mewtwo to approach. If Mewtwo has control of the center of the stage, it's really hard for lucas to NOT approach. When pressured lucas has nowhere to run while Mewtwo can go anywhere he wants. Also PK Freeze isn't very good at keeping mewtwo out cause I'm pretty sure mewtwo can teleport in on reaction to lucas throwing it, but not 100% sure.

But as a disclaimer I'm pretty sure Neon would beat me :D

Impossibru Emukeeler luses tah only CeeTee ZehRo.

 

[NFST4R]

Impossibru Emukeeler luses tah only CeeTee ZehRo.

EEMOOKEELER OR PEEFORKAY EE-EM-PEE MUUTOOKEENG

 

[NFST4R]

Mewtwo has the advantage. Lucas has a tough time both getting in and recovering, so even though he 0-KOs you on certain stages, Mewtwo has the tools to not get hit. That being said once you get hit it's PRETTY ROUGH but you can deal a ton of damage to lucas when it's your turn to combo him so it's w/e.

Even though Mewtwo's approaches outside of hover after up-B are pretty weak, lucas can't really force Mewtwo to approach. If Mewtwo has control of the center of the stage, it's really hard for lucas to NOT approach. When pressured lucas has nowhere to run while Mewtwo can go anywhere he wants. Also PK Freeze isn't very good at keeping mewtwo out cause I'm pretty sure mewtwo can teleport in on reaction to lucas throwing it, but not 100% sure.

But as a disclaimer I'm pretty sure Neon would beat me :D

This is good info to have and I appreciate the reply, I have seen your Mewtwo a bunch and GODDAMN but yeah man good luck in the future and thanks. I feel my Lucas would only be something I use vs mew two unless I wanted to maybe use Marth or something. Spaceys get kinda ***** by mew two so I am gonna steer clear of that.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Spaceys get kinda ***** by mew two so I am gonna steer clear of that.

This is not true. I play a Falco player on wifi (and we have a very strong connection, and back when I borrowed my friend's alienware we played on Netplay) and Falco can fire lasers at a fast enough rate that it interrupts Teleport approaches (5 frame jumpsquat + 23 frame TP+ 5 frame fair/nair=33 frames). Also, Falco can kill Mewtwo easily (he can kill most characters easily though). And Falco wins the mid range game with SH dair. Only real way to beat it is by perfectly spacing and timing up tilt. Also if you let Falco get in on your shield, you lost, Mewtwo's OoS options suck.

 

[NFST4R]

This is not true. I play a Falco player on wifi (and we have a very strong connection, and back when I borrowed my friend's alienware we played on Netplay) and Falco can fire lasers at a fast enough rate that it interrupts Teleport approaches (5 frame jumpsquat + 23 frame TP+ 5 frame fair/nair=33 frames). Also, Falco can kill Mewtwo easily (he can kill most characters easily though). And Falco wins the mid range game with SH dair. Only real way to beat it is by perfectly spacing and timing up tilt. Also if you let Falco get in on your shield, you lost, Mewtwo's OoS options suck.

Wow I truly never thought about that. I feel like chain grabs are definitely a big issue though correct?

 

[victinivcreate1]

Wow I truly never thought about that. I feel like chain grabs are definitely a big issue though correct?

We punish Falco super hard, but unlike Fox who has to rely on random hits into the up smash, Falco can straight up combo you hard too.

 

[Holla]

Mewtwo has the advantage. Lucas has a tough time both getting in and recovering, so even though he 0-KOs you on certain stages, Mewtwo has the tools to not get hit. That being said once you get hit it's PRETTY ROUGH but you can deal a ton of damage to lucas when it's your turn to combo him so it's w/e.

Even though Mewtwo's approaches outside of hover after up-B are pretty weak, lucas can't really force Mewtwo to approach. If Mewtwo has control of the center of the stage, it's really hard for lucas to NOT approach. When pressured lucas has nowhere to run while Mewtwo can go anywhere he wants. Also PK Freeze isn't very good at keeping mewtwo out cause I'm pretty sure mewtwo can teleport in on reaction to lucas throwing it, but not 100% sure.

But as a disclaimer I'm pretty sure Neon would beat me :D

Not to be a fangirl but as a mewtwo player you are seriously my idol!

 

[Boiko]

Mewtwo has the advantage. Lucas has a tough time both getting in and recovering, so even though he 0-KOs you on certain stages, Mewtwo has the tools to not get hit. That being said once you get hit it's PRETTY ROUGH but you can deal a ton of damage to lucas when it's your turn to combo him so it's w/e.

Even though Mewtwo's approaches outside of hover after up-B are pretty weak, lucas can't really force Mewtwo to approach. If Mewtwo has control of the center of the stage, it's really hard for lucas to NOT approach. When pressured lucas has nowhere to run while Mewtwo can go anywhere he wants. Also PK Freeze isn't very good at keeping mewtwo out cause I'm pretty sure mewtwo can teleport in on reaction to lucas throwing it, but not 100% sure.

But as a disclaimer I'm pretty sure Neon would beat me :D

Idk dude. You beat GP and he's waaaaay better than Neon.

 

[Taytertot]

Idk dude. You beat GP and he's waaaaay better than Neon.

I find that hard to believe. He doesn't seem as on point with punishes and his reaction time is obviously worse. I typed GP in and the first video that came up was this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iednzhxzZdI

I highly doubt that wario is truly a hard counter to lucas but that first game went really bad. he looks like a good lucas though.

Im not saying emukiller isnt awesome though because hes definitely the best mewtwo out there.