Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Starcutter]

might as well mention I finished Golden Sun over the DDoS.

 

[N3ON]

might as well mention I finished Golden Sun over the DDoS.

Well I can't think of a better use of time than that.

Did you like it?

 

[Starcutter]

Well I can't think of a better use of time than that.

Did you like it?

if I didn't like it, I wouldn't have finished it.

...well I guess I technically didn't. just after beating the fusion dragon, my game boy ran out of power.


...just like when I was a kid.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

ooga booga where dat isaac at?

 

[N3ON]

if I didn't like it, I wouldn't have finished it.

...well I guess I technically didn't. just after beating the fusion dragon, my game boy ran out of power.


...just like when I was a kid.

Ehh, I'd still count that as beating the game. And haha yeah, my game boy did that all the time. It happened the first time I beat the Elite Four, and I nearly cried.

ooga booga where dat isaac at?

Hiding in the shadows with the other unreleased newcomers, waiting to be revealed.

 

[FalKoopa]

I hope to Isaac's hair in the same level of detail as Link's hair.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I just realized something-

How haven't I come here for support yet?

Anywho, Isaac seems like a good choice for Smash to me, he has my support.

 

[N3ON]

Isaac's glorious, colourful, detailed model will probably be too much for me to handle. I wouldn't be surprised if he became one of the more popular characters among the average Smasher because people thought he was "cool looking", he has that sort of appeal that's common among the FE characters. Plus he'd probably have several flashy-looking moves, and that helps as well.

 

[Diddy Kong]

With the new Clone Engine in Project: M, and the announcement of Roy making it in, Isaac could have a lot of potential becoming playable in P:M to! Not only is he popular and fitting, his Assist Trophy model could make him fit extremely well with the rest of the cast. Move being an almost guaranteed attack as well.

Only things they need to do is give him a sword. And I think a sword modelled after the Gaia Blade or Sol Blade would be best. Psynergy like Spire also wouldn't be too hard to program for example, just re-use some from the 'dungeon' part of Castle Seige. Quake for Down B? Growth or Retreat Up B, and Isaac is basically... Golden.

 

[FalKoopa]

The clone engine has everyone excited.

I hope to all the ATs playable sometime in the future (Particularly Lyn, Isaac, Tingle, Waluigi, Hammer Bro, Saki and Samurai Goroh.)
#WishfulThinking

 

[Diddy Kong]

Tingle? Waluigi? Hammer Bro?

I believe I wanna jump of a roof right now. I'll seriously stop following P:M if they make Waluigi or Shadow the Hedgehog playable. Not even Mewtwo, Isaac, K.Rool and Impa could make me wanna play that ****.

Am kinda hoping for the Masked Man to. He's kind of a character that competitive Smashers would go crazy about, just like Lyn.

 

[FalKoopa]

Tingle? Waluigi? Hammer Bro?

I believe I wanna jump of a roof right now.

Then, by all means, please do.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd take Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer and Villager over those 3 in a heart beat.

Even my last one.

When I hit the ground.

...

Cause I jumped you know?

 

[FalKoopa]

I'd take Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer and Villager over those 3 in a heart beat.

To be fair, I would do the same too.

The Smash 4 newcomers are better than them, I agree, but I would still like to see them playable.

But really, are there Mega Man, WFT and Villager PSA's already out?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I doubt it. But I have other things to think about now. Am hitting the floor in I think... ~3 minutes now. So I'm mostly contimplating my soon ending existance and praying God forgives me for my sins and all that cheesy ****. Dying is overrated man.

 

[FalKoopa]

Am hitting the floor in I think... ~3 minutes now.

Foolish Monkey, use your tail!

 

[Diddy Kong]

I opted for my ridiculous Up B instead. Sometimes, it feels good to be Top Tier.

Anyway, Isaac definitely has the sort of appeal most casuals look for. If Marth, Ike and Roy get so popular despite not many people knowing him, Isaac could have the same. Easily. As N3ON said, his flashy moves would also help a lot with that.

Damn, I wanna see Ragnarok in HD.

 

[FalKoopa]

Something that is not discussed much.... Should Isaac use Psynergy for his grabs and throws?

Some examples:
Catch could be used as long range grab, and would look very different from other such grabs.
Lift would make for a nice up-throw.

 

[N3ON]

As glad as I am to see the clone engine finally working, has the P:M team made any sort of indication that they're going to add non-existing Smash characters? Like characters that haven't been playable yet? (I honestly don't know, I don't follow P:M too closely)

And Hammer Bro? People care about a playable Hammer Bro? This is news to me. I sure don't.

 

[FalKoopa]

And Hammer Bro? People care about a playable Hammer Bro? This is news to me. I sure don't.

He was the first character I created a support thread for, when I joined the site. ;_;

 

[N3ON]

I just don't get the appeal of playable generic enemy characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

As glad as I am to see the clone engine finally working, has the P:M team made any sort of indication that they're going to add non-existing Smash characters? Like characters that haven't been playable yet? (I honestly don't know, I don't follow P:M too closely)

And Hammer Bro? People care about a playable Hammer Bro? This is news to me. I sure don't.

There have apperantly been 'leaks' 'confirming' Mewtwo and Lyn. So if they would opt for Lyn, I think they would look at other Assist Trophies to. If so, Isaac is definitely one of the top picks.

 

[FalKoopa]

I just don't get the appeal of playable generic enemy characters.

I'm known for having strange likes. And getting defeated by a generic mook has to be the trolliest way of doing it.

....We're getting off topic, so we should drop it.

 

[N3ON]

There have apperantly been 'leaks' 'confirming' Mewtwo and Lyn. So if they would opt for Lyn, I think they would look at other Assist Trophies to. If so, Isaac is definitely one of the top picks.

Well I don't doubt Mewtwo, but where was Lyn confirmed? Do you have the source?

In any case, if they do move to ATs, I'd say that could only be good for Isaac, as one of the most popular and workable ATs, I can't see them not adding him. In which case I'd probably have to go get my Wii and dust off my Brawl.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

As glad as I am to see the clone engine finally working, has the P:M team made any sort of indication that they're going to add non-existing Smash characters? Like characters that haven't been playable yet? (I honestly don't know, I don't follow P:M too closely)

And Hammer Bro? People care about a playable Hammer Bro? This is news to me. I sure don't.

I get the feeling that they would probably opt for finishing the rest of the cast of Brawl and Melee before moving onto non-Smash Bros. characters. Likely Villager, Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer afterwards as well.

Isaac would be right up there as a character I'd love to play as, though. Of all the potential newcomers they could add, Isaac would definitely be one of the flashier ones.

I'm known for having strange likes. And getting defeated by a generic mook has to be the trolliest way of doing it.

....We're getting off topic, so we should drop it.

But but but but but

Isaac being in Project M is completely on topic!

We don't have a lot else to talk about otherwise, besides the whole "Shulk vs Isaac" roster placement thing.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Source was a post on Reddit, but it got deleted. Haven't seen it myself though.

 

[N3ON]

I get the feeling that they would probably opt for finishing the rest of the cast of Brawl and Melee before moving onto non-Smash Bros. characters. Likely Villager, Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer afterwards as well.

Yes, I would imagine the same thing. At least getting the remaining Brawl vets and Mewtwo done before moving on to "new" characters.

I could see them adding ATs (if they are even planning to) before Smash 4 characters though, if they want to base the Smash 4 characters off their movesets, which likely won't be defined enough to emulate to the extent P:M is known for until the game releases.

Isaac would be right up there as a character I'd love to play as, though. Of all the potential newcomers they could add, Isaac would definitely be one of the flashier ones.

Mhmm, of the ATs he'd definitely be my top choice, but I'd also like to see what they could do with Saki and Lyn. And I assume Goroh, Little Mac, and Waluigi would probably also all be attempted. And maybe Tingle and Ray.

EDIT: Oh, and Starfy. Dunno why I forgot him. Embarrass

But but but but but

Isaac being in Project M is completely on topic!

We don't have a lot else to talk about otherwise, besides the whole "Shulk vs Isaac" roster placement thing.

I don't know about you, but I've exhausted that topic. While I'd like to see both, I'm Team Isaac.

 

[FalKoopa]

I get the feeling that they would probably opt for finishing the rest of the cast of Brawl and Melee before moving onto non-Smash Bros. characters. Likely Villager, Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer afterwards as well.

Stop getting my hopes up about Toon Link.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I could see them adding ATs (if they are even planning to) before Smash 4 characters though, if they want to base the Smash 4 characters off their movesets, which likely won't be defined enough to emulate to the extent P:M is known for until the game releases.

I don't know about you, but I've exhausted that topic. While I'd like to see both, I'm Team Isaac.

Fair enough of a point. The question then becomes, however, if one of the Brawl ATs is an SSB4 newcomer. Would they jump on making them for being a hot, easy to add newcomer, or do they wait until their moveset is fully released before bothering turning said AT into a character?

I'm definitely Team Isaac myself. Even if Shulk represents a different generation of Nintendo, he's only been in one game and shows no sure-fire signs of returning in X. Isaac has been around for over 10 years and has existed in all three games of his series. Besides that, we could really use more swordfighters that don't exclusively use their sword. What with Isaac's Psynergy and special moves, his sword could be very well regulated to only half of his moveset. That'd be much more unique than another heavy swordfighter, in my opinion.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well I don't doubt Mewtwo, but where was Lyn confirmed? Do you have the source?

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1mndjo/its_here_new_project_m_video_challenger/?limit=500

This is where the original "leak" was posted. The comment is now deleted, so we can't be sure exactly what the poster saw.

Honestly I don't think the P:M team will start adding characters willy nilly. The dev team has said that adding characters isn't very easy even with the CE working. And honestly, once you start adding characters beyond Melee vets, where do you draw the line at who can be added?

 

[N3ON]

Fair enough of a point. The question then becomes, however, if one of the Brawl ATs is an SSB4 newcomer. Would they jump on making them for being a hot, easy to add newcomer, or do they wait until their moveset is fully released before bothering turning said AT into a character?

Yeah, that's a valid point. In that case I could see them holding off on the ATs more likely to be playable this time around, like Little Mac and Isaac. Because I do see them prioritizing official movesets above fan-made ones. Which is a shame, because it'd delay getting Isaac.

I'm definitely Team Isaac myself. Even if Shulk represents a different generation of Nintendo, he's only been in one game and shows no sure-fire signs of returning in X. Isaac has been around for over 10 years and has existed in all three games of his series. Besides that, we could really use more swordfighters that don't exclusively use their sword. What with Isaac's Psynergy and special moves, his sword could be very well regulated to only half of his moveset. That'd be much more unique than another heavy swordfighter, in my opinion.

I agree. Plus people seem to think Isaac and Shulk have had similar reception as a whole, when Isaac is the face of a multi-million unit moving series (not that sales directly matter, but they do indicate audience size) with popularity that has endured over a decade, and Shulk, while a protagonist to a great game, can't claim anything close to that.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1mndjo/its_here_new_project_m_video_challenger/?limit=500

This is where the original "leak" was posted. The comment is now deleted, so we can't be sure exactly what the poster saw.

Honestly I don't think the P:M team will start adding characters willy nilly. The dev team has said that adding characters isn't very easy even with the CE working. And honestly, once you start adding characters beyond Melee vets, where do you draw the line at who can be added?

It is a big can of worms they're opening to be sure, which is why I still don't completely believe it, but ATs do make sense as the logical step after existing characters. I'm not saying it will happen, and I'm mostly looking at it ideally, but I don't think it would be the most outlandish possibility. Obviously though that would open the floodgates for stupid requests directed at them, but if they make the parameters clear for what they're willing to implement, it could save them some hassle.

 

[Arteen]

I have no idea if the Project M team is interested in adding any new characters, but it'd be cool if they did. I'd love to see something like this with Project M's level of polish:

 

[Diddy Kong]

Base animations are good, but whoa he looks quite stuff still in that vid. Gotta love those Smash attacks though.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Sat down for an Isaac move set after the four pillars thread got me thinking of him. Here you go:

Spoiler

Speed: Normal, maybe a little slow; he's defensive.
Air Speed: Slow-ish, he should be fairly easy to follow in the air.
Fall: Fast, not one of the fastest, but he is a Venus adept; his place is on the ground.
Size: Medium, same size as he was in brawl.
Weight: Medium-Heavy, not Snake heavy, but heavy for a human.
Reach: His sword's fairly short, but still better than a fist, but his grab has good reach with Catch.
Jumps: 2, with a decent first jump, but terrible second; enough to change platforms, but not much else.

A: Swings sword downwards
AA: Follow up swing

Dash: Stabs forwards as he runs in a loose reference to Odyssey.

STilt: Jump attack forwards, critical hit animation.
UTilt: Holds up his hand and uses Growth creating plants straight upwards.
DTilt: Quake hits anyone on the ground nearby, can be mashed like DKs down special.

SSmash: Flint appears, another jumping attack, this time slower with a big explosion from the ground.
USmash: Holds up his hand again, this time calling forth Gaia as a beam of light around him.
DSmash: Stabs the ground knocking up two Spires to either side,stronger and more spires on each charge.

NAir: Gust Appears as he attacks with a wide swing, if the attack sweet spots the first hit doesn't knock back and he swings again for much better knock back.
FAir: Sleet Appears as Isaac holds up his sword, snow blasts out of his sword freezing anyone close.
This attack has some push back, but causes no damage. Gimping tool, if you're brave enough to fight in the air.
BAir: Sour Appears as Isaac swings backwards with his sword causing water damage to the target and launching upwards.
DAir: Holds up his hand and casts Rock Fall, which goes forwards at an angle as a short-ish range projectile.
UAir: Fever Appears as Isaac swings upwards, an orange cloud is released; does damage and lingers slightly.

Grab: Psyenergy Catch makes for a tether grab of sorts that will pull the caught person towards Isaac.
Pummel: Grip squeezes the target causing damage as Isaac stands ready.
Forward: Cannon appears and Isaac bursts forwards cloaked in fire while the target is held in place.
Back: Serac appears as Isaac swings his sword hitting the target, an iceberg appears behind them launching them back.
Up: Waft appears as Isaac swings his sword in a circle, a whirlwind throws the target straight up.
Down: Echo appears as Isaac slams the target into the ground, followed by a second attack launching them up at an angle.


Neutral B: Ragnarok summons a sword above Isaacs head, will fire as an angled projectile a short range forwards.
As the attack charges the sword gets bigger and rises increasing both damage and range.
If someone jumps into the sword while charging it will fire off the attack automatically.
Can be manipulated to hit closer or further from the user by aiming while charging.
Charge does NOT hold if you move out the way, but it charges fairly quickly.
Side B: Move has a large quick moving hand push away anyone in the way, the hand is large and the move can be used to keep distance.
It's also good for messing up an attempt to get back on the ledge, though leaves you a little vulnerable if wrongly used.
Down B: Cure can be used to heal oneself of a little damage when on the ground, leaves one prone for a bit while casting.
Up B: Teleport sends Isaac upwards a short way, can be controled to some degree; a fairly poor recovery move.



Final Smash: Megiddo!

Isaac's Sol Blade sword let's out a howl!
Isaac jumps high into the air and a huge red ball of earth falls from the sky infront of him.
Players can dodge this by running past Isaac's starting point, or the other way on really big stages.
It is however fairly difficult to dodge due to the extreme size of the attack filling much of the screen.
It happens in semi-cutscene slowing everyone else's movements while the animation is going on and the ball falls.
While the animation isn't exactly fast, the slowdown gives people less time to dodge the attack than it seems.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That's a real nice moveset man.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Thankyou; I wanted to get more Grass type moves into it for PKMN Trainer's type advantages, or a more useful neutral B, but Ragnarok is an important spell, and I guess people will find ways to use it. I also considered the Cure things possibly OP, but Venus adepts are known for their healing so it would be odd not having it involved. Quake as DownB and Vine Djinn as DTilt could work as an alternate, but I like the idea of him having some healing for serious sustain, especially given how defensive his play style would be. Sap could make one of the Djinn moves too, for even more sustain, and grass typing, but I think I picked some of the more iconic Djinn from the first two games.

 

[Oddyesy]

Sat down for an Isaac move set after the four pillars thread got me thinking of him. Here you go:

Spoiler

Speed: Normal, maybe a little slow; he's defensive.
Air Speed: Slow-ish, he should be fairly easy to follow in the air.
Fall: Fast, not one of the fastest, but he is a Venus adept; his place is on the ground.
Size: Medium, same size as he was in brawl.
Weight: Medium-Heavy, not Snake heavy, but heavy for a human.
Reach: His sword's fairly short, but still better than a fist, but his grab has good reach with Catch.
Jumps: 2, with a decent first jump, but terrible second; enough to change platforms, but not much else.

A: Swings sword downwards
AA: Follow up swing

Dash: Stabs forwards as he runs in a loose reference to Odyssey.

STilt: Jump attack forwards, critical hit animation.
UTilt: Holds up his hand and uses Growth creating plants straight upwards.
DTilt: Quake hits anyone on the ground nearby, can be mashed like DKs down special.

SSmash: Flint appears, another jumping attack, this time slower with a big explosion from the ground.
USmash: Holds up his hand again, this time calling forth Gaia as a beam of light around him.
DSmash: Stabs the ground knocking up two Spires to either side,stronger and more spires on each charge.

NAir: Gust Appears as he attacks with a wide swing, if the attack sweet spots the first hit doesn't knock back and he swings again for much better knock back.
FAir: Sleet Appears as Isaac holds up his sword, snow blasts out of his sword freezing anyone close.
This attack has some push back, but causes no damage. Gimping tool, if you're brave enough to fight in the air.
BAir: Sour Appears as Isaac swings backwards with his sword causing water damage to the target and launching upwards.
DAir: Holds up his hand and casts Rock Fall, which goes forwards at an angle as a short-ish range projectile.
UAir: Fever Appears as Isaac swings upwards, an orange cloud is released; does damage and lingers slightly.

Grab: Psyenergy Catch makes for a tether grab of sorts that will pull the caught person towards Isaac.
Pummel: Grip squeezes the target causing damage as Isaac stands ready.
Forward: Cannon appears and Isaac bursts forwards cloaked in fire while the target is held in place.
Back: Serac appears as Isaac swings his sword hitting the target, an iceberg appears behind them launching them back.
Up: Waft appears as Isaac swings his sword in a circle, a whirlwind throws the target straight up.
Down: Echo appears as Isaac slams the target into the ground, followed by a second attack launching them up at an angle.


Neutral B: Ragnarok summons a sword above Isaacs head, will fire as an angled projectile a short range forwards.
As the attack charges the sword gets bigger and rises increasing both damage and range.
If someone jumps into the sword while charging it will fire off the attack automatically.
Can be manipulated to hit closer or further from the user by aiming while charging.
Charge does NOT hold if you move out the way, but it charges fairly quickly.
Side B: Move has a large quick moving hand push away anyone in the way, the hand is large and the move can be used to keep distance.
It's also good for messing up an attempt to get back on the ledge, though leaves you a little vulnerable if wrongly used.
Down B: Cure can be used to heal oneself of a little damage when on the ground, leaves one prone for a bit while casting.
Up B: Teleport sends Isaac upwards a short way, can be controled to some degree; a fairly poor recovery move.



Final Smash: Megiddo!

Isaac's Sol Blade sword let's out a howl!
Isaac jumps high into the air and a huge red ball of earth falls from the sky infront of him.
Players can dodge this by running past Isaac's starting point, or the other way on really big stages.
It is however fairly difficult to dodge due to the extreme size of the attack filling much of the screen.
It happens in semi-cutscene slowing everyone else's movements while the animation is going on and the ball falls.
While the animation isn't exactly fast, the slowdown gives people less time to dodge the attack than it seems.

I personally believe that Isaac should be a bit faster, considering his agility in the games. Otherwise, not bad! I am kinda iffy on Isaac's seeming lack or viable recovery though. Could you maybe give me a range on teleport, like saying "It has a height range of about the same as Ike's Aether" or something? I'd also like it for the jumps. that "Enough to change platforms, but not much" kinda worries me.

As I've said, Isaac and Matthew are pretty much interchangeable. I'm sure most mainstream fans would not care that much. GS series fans would just be stoked to see the series just get a rep in general. GS fans who haven't played DD understandable would favor GS's and GS:TLA's characters. It's the same with FE and those who haven't played with Awakening.

I'm sure Isaac wouldn't mind his son getting in over him. I'd love to see either. But its far from guaranteed to be Isaac.

I'd be ok if Isaac had a Matthew costume that would also change their names upon picking the skin, but that's just me.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

I personally believe that Isaac should be a bit faster, considering his agility in the games. Otherwise, not bad! I am kinda iffy on Isaac's seeming lack or viable recovery though. Could you maybe give me a range on teleport, like saying "It has a height range of about the same as Ike's Aether" or something? I'd also like it for the jumps. that "Enough to change platforms, but not much" kinda worries me.

Sadly I had to make a weakness somewhere, and I think recovery seems the best place to put it; he could get better ground speed if needed to play his defensive ground game mind (and possibly AOE based play in FFA), but I think it'd be nice to see him being slower so people don't try and play him aggressively which could end up with him either being brokenly good, or brokenly bad at defense after balancing.

The lack of recovery itself isn't exactly quantifiable as that's one of the biggest things to consider in balancing, but if it turns out too weak teleport could be made quite good distance with a negative effect (ie. special prone fall at the end of it), or you could viably give him a third jump with Zephyr appearing on the second air jump(something I hadn't thought of when making the moveset, but that could actually be pretty awesome). However I don't think his lack of viable recovery is that big a deal given his focus is on ground defense, and exemplary spacing. The combination of Spires (Down Smash) to stop people approaching from the sides and Ragnarok (neutral A) to stop people approaching from above should make it extremely difficult to safely attack Isaac. Finding a safe time and spot to attack is the difficulty when facing Isaac, but when you do it should have a pretty significant effect. His weight means you can't knock him too far without racking up the damage mind, and if he can get a chance to use Cure he can even work out that problem. The way I imagined the moveset was not to be knocked off the stage very often, but when he is he's pretty vulnerable, if his recovery is good then he'll just go straight up S-Tier especially with a good grab range helping him get people out the way and Move, Spires, Rock Fall, Ragnarok and mashing Quake all making for crazy edge guarding potential.

 

[Oddyesy]

Sadly I had to make a weakness somewhere, and I think recovery seems the best place to put it; he could get better ground speed if needed to play his defensive ground game mind (and possibly AOE based play in FFA), but I think it'd be nice to see him being slower so people don't try and play him aggressively which could end up with him either being brokenly good, or brokenly bad at defense after balancing.

The lack of recovery itself isn't exactly quantifiable as that's one of the biggest things to consider in balancing, but if it turns out too weak teleport could be made quite good distance with a negative effect (ie. special prone fall at the end of it), or you could viably give him a third jump with Zephyr appearing on the second air jump(something I hadn't thought of when making the moveset, but that could actually be pretty awesome). However I don't think his lack of viable recovery is that big a deal given his focus is on ground defense, and exemplary spacing. The combination of Spires (Down Smash) to stop people approaching from the sides and Ragnarok (neutral A) to stop people approaching from above should make it extremely difficult to safely attack Isaac. Finding a safe time and spot to attack is the difficulty when facing Isaac, but when you do it should have a pretty significant effect. His weight means you can't knock him too far without racking up the damage mind, and if he can get a chance to use Cure he can even work out that problem. The way I imagined the moveset was not to be knocked off the stage very often, but when he is he's pretty vulnerable, if his recovery is good then he'll just go straight up S-Tier especially with a good grab range helping him get people out the way and Move, Spires, Rock Fall, Ragnarok and mashing Quake all making for crazy edge guarding potential.

Per'aps Zephyr or some Wind djinni would aid Isaac's 2nd jump, instead of giving him a third jump, cause 3 jumps seems kinda op.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Per'aps Zephyr or some Wind djinni would aid Isaac's 2nd jump, instead of giving him a third jump, cause 3 jumps seems kinda op.

Depends how good the jumps are, or if he'd even need it in balancing. It should all be sorted out in balancing but thank you for bringing me (inadvertantly) to the idea of a Jupiter Djinn being part of his jumps, it's a cool idea, I kinda like it. Sadly I'm not making the character though, so I con't see how he'd balance out, or get chance to try and implement a Jupiter Djinn based jump.

Part of my problem making his move set is trying to find a way for him not to be OP, because he has so many tools to his disposal in his native game he should be able to do anything really well.. I guess that's a problem most jRPG characters suffer from though.