Official The 20XX Melee Training Hack Pack (v5.0.2 - 1/20/2023)

[Achilles1515]

So I played on my friend's version of 20XX, and when you quit out of a match it like instantly goes back to the CSS rather than having a little delay. I thought it was because he was using nintendont, but i switched over to nintendont and it's still not instant. Does anyone know why this is and how to fix? Thanks!

What device are you booting from? He's probably just using a fast USB drive.

 

[gamegod7]

While I was loading USB loader GX, my wii fell somehow and now it will not load 20XX. there is no visible physical damage to the wii, but is there anything that I can do to help solve this?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just had to unplug the USB and SD card multiple times before it would load.

 

[Anutim]

So I played on my friend's version of 20XX, and when you quit out of a match it like instantly goes back to the CSS rather than having a little delay. I thought it was because he was using nintendont, but i switched over to nintendont and it's still not instant. Does anyone know why this is and how to fix? Thanks!

He could be using an extracted iso instead of the raw one, I think.

 

[deathpie]

I was actually vaguely interested in modding stage music / controlling the playlist for 20xx so I came to the thread to investigate and am pumped to see that you're working on that functionality. Really excited for the next major update.

 

[Bounce N Back]

Can anyone tell me how to view hitstun on 20xx? I can only seem to figure out how to view hitboxs on it and was unable to find that option. Sorry if it explicitly said it somewhere on the list on the first page, didn't see anything for it

 

[Bounce N Back]

^nvm figured it out mb :]

 

[bearsfan092]

Has anyone ever heard of modifying the Falco laser behavior so change the frequency (or maybe even the heights)? Wanna work on hitting my dashes after a laser. I can do it under the current speed, but I was just curious

 

[krvntn]

I have some issues loading 20XX on dolphin, it doesn't want to load it apparently, and just freezes with a black screen. Loading a PAL backup works just fine.
On my wii it's another "recent" problem, which is if I wanna play PAL Fox, the game simply infinite-loads after the stage selection screen. I don't know why this happens. I tried remaking the iso many times, with no success whatsoever for now.
Also, the red alt for Captain Falcon doesn't seem to work either, I may say bull**** but could this had something to do with the fact that the alt uses a .dat extension on a model that loads a .usd file (what the heck by the way ? That's the only model that loads a .usd file) ?

But that's not the main reason of my post: You know I've been curious on melee recently with the huge grow on hacks and all and I found a page with all the unused voice clips on trcf.net and I've been wondering if there would be any way to use these audios for taunts ? Either making multiples clips on one taunt like the japanese version of Fox & Falco or even program taunts on the other directions of the directional pad.

Because simply changing the characters voice files doesn't work (heh).

Otherwise achilles, do you plan on making more alts for other characters like Ganon or Samus if you had enough textures ? What about the css, weren't you planing on changing it also ?

Oh and, a bit off-topic but since it concerns hacking in some sort: what's the deal with the PAL version having no MnSlChr.usd and instead having MnSlChr.frd, MnSlChr.gmd MnSlChr.itd ? Can I somehow still work with these ?

 

[Sham Rock]

I have some issues loading 20XX on dolphin, it doesn't want to load it apparently, and just freezes with a black screen. Loading a PAL backup works just fine.
On my wii it's another "recent" problem, which is if I wanna play PAL Fox, the game simply infinite-loads after the stage selection screen. I don't know why this happens. I tried remaking the iso many times, with no success whatsoever for now.
Also, the red alt for Captain Falcon doesn't seem to work either, I may say bull**** but could this had something to do with the fact that the alt uses a .dat extension on a model that loads a .usd file (what the heck by the way ? That's the only model that loads a .usd file) ?

But that's not the main reason of my post: You know I've been curious on melee recently with the huge grow on hacks and all and I found a page with all the unused voice clips on trcf.net and I've been wondering if there would be any way to use these audios for taunts ? Either making multiples clips on one taunt like the japanese version of Fox & Falco or even program taunts on the other directions of the directional pad.

Because simply changing the characters voice files doesn't work (heh).

Otherwise achilles, do you plan on making more alts for other characters like Ganon or Samus if you had enough textures ? What about the css, weren't you planing on changing it also ?

Oh and, a bit off-topic but since it concerns hacking in some sort: what's the deal with the PAL version having no MnSlChr.usd and instead having MnSlChr.frd, MnSlChr.gmd MnSlChr.itd ? Can I somehow still work with these ?

.dat -> original japanese
usd -> american english
ukd british english (content is the same as the .usd)
gmd german
itd italian
frd french
spd spanish

the offsets are all the same in each MnSlMap, but for MnSlChr I dont know. Look at a .usd and .ukd in a hex editor, when the place where you would normally start adding your custom stuff in the .usd looks just like in the .ukd, they might be the same. Or just try renaming the ending of some pal files to .ukd and see if the game can handle them.

 

[CeLL]

Has anyone ever heard of modifying the Falco laser behavior so change the frequency (or maybe even the heights)? Wanna work on hitting my dashes after a laser. I can do it under the current speed, but I was just curious

I turn invincibility on while I'm practicing powershielding so that I can ignore lasers I don't want to try to powershield. I usually go for every other or every third.

 

[_Apollo_]

Download 7zip

I tried that, and I still got the same one file, and it says that it can't open that file as archive

 

[MadeYouLook]

in my 20xx training I realized something that would be awesome in addition to the cpu DI and teching is randomly having the CPU do the shield stuff as well since its already in the game

it would help so much if every once in the while when I was playing vs the CPU it would do the grab OOS when I wasnt expecting it or Nair OOS

obviously I can already have the CPU do this stuff but I would love if the LVL 1 CPU just automatically mixed it in when Im not ready for it

 

[CeLL]

in my 20xx training I realized something that would be awesome in addition to the cpu DI and teching is randomly having the CPU do the shield stuff as well since its already in the game

it would help so much if every once in the while when I was playing vs the CPU it would do the grab OOS when I wasnt expecting it or Nair OOS

obviously I can already have the CPU do this stuff but I would love if the LVL 1 CPU just automatically mixed it in when Im not ready for it

Do CPUs even shield? I thought they didn't. But at first what I thought you were talking about a randomized OoS option toggle, which I think would be pretty cool. Randomly nair, bair, shine, roll, spotdodge, or grab OoS.

 

[MadeYouLook]

Do CPUs even shield? I thought they didn't. But at first what I thought you were talking about a randomized OoS option toggle, which I think would be pretty cool. Randomly nair, bair, shine, roll, spotdodge, or grab OoS.

nah they dont

thats pretty much what I was asking for but just have the level 1 CPU do it sometimes besides the random DI and teching


but if that was too hard or something the randomized OoS toggle would make me very happy as well

 

[MookieRah]

So I mentioned this way way back, but it didn't get much attention. Also, I'm using the previous version (not the one that was released late last year) so if it's fixed I apologise. The notes didn't mention anything that indicates to me that this was changed though.

The random DI is not random past the first hit of any string. It's very obvious when you practice finishers from Marth's chain grab on Fox. The DI of the throw works, then the DI of the first hit, but after that there is no DI at all.

Because of that, it makes practicing anything beyond the basic setup unreliable, as you can't practice against any sort of variety and would lead to bad habits.

 

[Scroll]

@ Achilles1515
I asked before but I didn't get an answer.
Is CPU recovery 2.0 on the horizon?

Also, is Falcon getting his tech pattern updated to being real random instead of like 90% tech in place?

And currently when ever spacies tech roll on a platform they fall off air dodging from the waveshine.
Is this getting fixed?

 

[XxGUNZxX]

What device are you booting from? He's probably just using a fast USB drive.

We are both using sd cards. I don't know his exact one though.

 

[Achilles1515]

Has anyone ever heard of modifying the Falco laser behavior so change the frequency (or maybe even the heights)? Wanna work on hitting my dashes after a laser. I can do it under the current speed, but I was just curious

This has been requested multiple times so there's a good chance I'll slightly mod it somehow in the next update.

in my 20xx training I realized something that would be awesome in addition to the cpu DI and teching is randomly having the CPU do the shield stuff as well since its already in the game

it would help so much if every once in the while when I was playing vs the CPU it would do the grab OOS when I wasnt expecting it or Nair OOS

obviously I can already have the CPU do this stuff but I would love if the LVL 1 CPU just automatically mixed it in when Im not ready for it

At this point, you're pretty much talking about programming AI to know when to shield. This is not an easy task, but I do plan on eventually looking into it. I think I have the coding knowledge to do such a thing, but creating a coding framework for such a thing would be very time consuming.

So I mentioned this way way back, but it didn't get much attention. Also, I'm using the previous version (not the one that was released late last year) so if it's fixed I apologise. The notes didn't mention anything that indicates to me that this was changed though.

The random DI is not random past the first hit of any string. It's very obvious when you practice finishers from Marth's chain grab on Fox. The DI of the throw works, then the DI of the first hit, but after that there is no DI at all.

Because of that, it makes practicing anything beyond the basic setup unreliable, as you can't practice against any sort of variety and would lead to bad habits.

Update your version. It's fixed.

@ Achilles1515
I asked before but I didn't get an answer.
Is CPU recovery 2.0 on the horizon?

Also, is Falcon getting his tech pattern updated to being real random instead of like 90% tech in place?

And currently when ever spacies tech roll on a platform they fall off air dodging from the waveshine.
Is this getting fixed?

Advanced CPU recovery - no, not anytime soon. Falcon tech pattern - yeah, I actually just thought of a nice way to give you guys the ability to tinker with the teching rates and stuff. Spacies - Umm I think I can.

Damn there's so much to do.

 

[Scroll]

This has been requested multiple times so there's a good chance I'll slightly mod it somehow in the next update.

At this point, you're pretty much talking about programming AI to know when to shield. This is not an easy task, but I do plan on eventually looking into it. I think I have the coding knowledge to do such a thing, but creating a coding framework for such a thing would be very time consuming.

Update your version. It's fixed.

Advanced CPU recovery - no, not anytime soon. Falcon tech pattern - yeah, I actually just thought of a nice way to give you guys the ability to tinker with the teching rates and stuff. Spacies - Umm I think I can.

Damn there's so much to do.

How about a simple 50% chance if a spacie is above stage level that he will do Side B as a recovery option? You know, as a start. That would do alot man!

And that tech tinker thingy sounds awesome! Can't wait!

 

[OninO]

@ Achilles1515

How does the CPU random DI work? Would it be possible to program DI in the same way that we program moves? So it loads the DI into memory then references it every time x happens? That "x" is the crux of my question, how do you determine when to do the random DI in the current build?

I'm guessing whenever the CPU enters hit stun, you choose a random DI direction and then hold it until hit stun ends.

 

[Skeptixz]

made an accout just to say THANKS

 

[DoFdcos(theta)]

Hi there! I am doing this on a Mac and I am running into an issue -- I just don't have a .iso in or outside that folder after extraction! I don't know why; I've tried downloading the .zip and extracting it again, but I just don't get an iso out of it. I believe I get every other file that I should, but not that one

Would some kind soul please help me?

 

[AirFair]

I tried using a new battlefield texture and it didn't work. Is it because of the custom battlefield codes?

 

[Achilles1515]

Hi there! I am doing this on a Mac and I am running into an issue -- I just don't have a .iso in or outside that folder after extraction! I don't know why; I've tried downloading the .zip and extracting it again, but I just don't get an iso out of it. I believe I get every other file that I should, but not that one

Would some kind soul please help me?

The zip file on the main post? You need to download/ or rip your own vanilla SSBM v1.02 ISO then follow the instructions within the zip file to rebuild it with the 20XX file replacements.

I tried using a new battlefield texture and it didn't work. Is it because of the custom battlefield codes?

No. In 3.02 it's the same Battlefield file, GrNBa.dat.

 

[Achilles1515]

How about a simple 50% chance if a spacie is above stage level that he will do Side B as a recovery option? You know, as a start. That would do alot man!

And that tech tinker thingy sounds awesome! Can't wait!

It sounds like a simple task but there's still a lot to it. I need to make sure that the character is a spacie, that they are a computer, that they are actually above stage (not every stage's "ground level" is at 0 y value), I need to make sure that actually can side-b in their current action state or run some sort of interrupt function to just keep trying until some criteria is met, check if they are to side-b that they'll actually make it on stage or to the ledge, make sure they side-b is the correct direction. Shortening?

There's a lot to it. And what I've learned over the past year is to NOT program something big and complicated all willy nilly. I want to think about it hard and do the best I can to write it in such a way that I won't need to rewrite the general structure in the future.

@ Achilles1515

How does the CPU random DI work? Would it be possible to program DI in the same way that we program moves? So it loads the DI into memory then references it every time x happens? That "x" is the crux of my question, how do you determine when to do the random DI in the current build?

I'm guessing whenever the CPU enters hit stun, you choose a random DI direction and then hold it until hit stun ends.

I've talked about it earlier in the thread at some point. Try searching for it - I'm on mobile at the moment so I can't.

Basically, when a character enters a "receiving damage" action state, I pull 16bits from the random seed and push that into the [spamming] joystick input and The Y button, and it does that until they jump or run out of jumps.

 

[Lochnis]

Hey, I've been searching around for a little while, but I haven't been able to find a concrete answer, so I'll ask here first: Is there a way for people to add in hacked textures that function similarly to the alternate skins already in the pack? For instance, if I took a texture for Bowser or Mario off the official texture thread, is there a way to have it work with the "L - Alternate Costumes" input in the pack? Or is that not something we are able to do? Sorry if this has been answered already, I just wanted to ask for myself.

 

[CeLL]

Hey, I've been searching around for a little while, but I haven't been able to find a concrete answer, so I'll ask here first: Is there a way for people to add in hacked textures that function similarly to the alternate skins already in the pack? For instance, if I took a texture for Bowser or Mario off the official texture thread, is there a way to have it work with the "L - Alternate Costumes" input in the pack? Or is that not something we are able to do? Sorry if this has been answered already, I just wanted to ask for myself.

There are a ton of posts on this thread asking that question. The answer is yes you can by writing ASM codes but that's rather hard. So just wait until 20XX 4.0, which will have an alt for every costume. Or check out Zankyou's code which has its own thread.

 

[Lochnis]

There are a ton of posts on this thread asking that question. The answer is yes you can by writing ASM codes but that's rather hard. So just wait until 20XX 4.0, which will have an alt for every costume. Or check out Zankyou's code which has its own thread.

Oh, thanks! Again, sorry I asked a common question, but thanks anyway.

 

[MookieRah]

The random DI is not random past the first hit of any string. It's very obvious when you practice finishers from Marth's chain grab on Fox. The DI of the throw works, then the DI of the first hit, but after that there is no DI at all.

@ Achilles1515

Update your version. It's fixed.

Just updated and tested. Something is weird. The CPU doesn't seem to be DI'ing Marth's uair (tested on Fox). It was certainly DI'ing the fair, but uair (sweet or sourspotted) resulted in no DI every time. I am pretty sure it was DI'ing the utilt too, so I don't think the bug has much to do with upward launch angles.

 

[Myougi]

@ Achilles1515

Just updated and tested. Something is weird. The CPU doesn't seem to be DI'ing Marth's uair (tested on Fox). It was certainly DI'ing the fair, but uair (sweet or sourspotted) resulted in no DI every time. I am pretty sure it was DI'ing the utilt too, so I don't think the bug has much to do with upward launch angles.

I think what you're thinking about is not DI, but SDI. Right now in 20XX computers will randomly DI attacks, but will not SDI attacks (They can also ASDI attacks, but this is small and is a result of regular DI) such as Fox's Up-air to save them from death on a full clean second hit. Basically, computers can't 'mash' their analog sticks in order to SDI out of Fox's first hit of uair.

Going off your example with Marth-- It's incredibly hard for a human to DI, or even SDI out of Marth's Uair juggles, much less a CPU to do it. The CPU is probably DIing/SDIing inappropriately due to the random DI making them easier to juggle.

For future reference:

DI - Directional Influence:
Directional Influence is when you aim for the direction you want to go when being launched. If you are launched vertically, tilt the control stick to the left or right. If launched horizontally, tilt the control stick to the upper left or the upper right, in the opposite direction you are launched.

SDI - Smash Directional Influence:
Smash DI is controlling your character during hitstun by inputting quick directional inputs on the control stick. It can be better seen this way in slow motion and multi-hit moves such as Samus' Up+B. To SDI, tap the control stick and/or C-stick in the direction you want your character to move during hitstun. To Smash DI, do the same with the C-stick. If you smash/tap DI enough in a grab such as Yoshi's, you can make the game crash from it.

ASDI - Automatic Smash DI:
Automatic smash directional influence is a weaker variant of SDI. Once a character's hitstun frames have completed, they shift slightly in whatever direction the control stick is currently held, slightly less than one SDI input.

 

[Scroll]

It sounds like a simple task but there's still a lot to it. I need to make sure that the character is a spacie, that they are a computer, that they are actually above stage (not every stage's "ground level" is at 0 y value), I need to make sure that actually can side-b in their current action state or run some sort of interrupt function to just keep trying until some criteria is met, check if they are to side-b that they'll actually make it on stage or to the ledge, make sure they side-b is the correct direction. Shortening?

There's a lot to it. And what I've learned over the past year is to NOT program something big and complicated all willy nilly. I want to think about it hard and do the best I can to write it in such a way that I won't need to rewrite the general structure in the future.


I've talked about it earlier in the thread at some point. Try searching for it - I'm on mobile at the moment so I can't.

Basically, when a character enters a "receiving damage" action state, I pull 16bits from the random seed and push that into the [spamming] joystick input and The Y button, and it does that until they jump or run out of jumps.

I understand. I didn't think about all of that and I guess with all those conditions to be met it becomes a good challenge for a programmer. All of that "just" for a SideB, wow.
Many many things could be done to improve on the CPU's AI, but I think recovery would still be one of the most useful things to practice against vs. time spent programming.

Another would be neutral spacing. CPUs constantly walk up to jab range. They never grab anything but your shield, or aerial either (99% true). And they never retreat, making the only viable training revolve around following up (OK not true - but considering the current CPU AI playing a standard match).

I wish that in the future 20XX CPUs will have human like behavior, avoiding and looking for openings and mixing up their approaches. Comboing you, following up on DI and tech chasing you? >:D
Will a 20XX CPU win EVO 2020????

Or better yet, what if we could each program our own CPU and have them brawl it out. Man that would be interesting!

 

[Sickolas]

I understand. I didn't think about all of that and I guess with all those conditions to be met it becomes a good challenge for a programmer. All of that "just" for a SideB, wow.
Many many things could be done to improve on the CPU's AI, but I think recovery would still be one of the most useful things to practice against vs. time spent programming.

Another would be neutral spacing. CPUs constantly walk up to jab range. They never grab anything but your shield, or aerial either (99% true). And they never retreat, making the only viable training revolve around following up (OK not true - but considering the current CPU AI playing a standard match).

I wish that in the future 20XX CPUs will have human like behavior, avoiding and looking for openings and mixing up their approaches. Comboing you, following up on DI and tech chasing you? >:D
Will a 20XX CPU win EVO 2020????

Or better yet, what if we could each program our own CPU and have them brawl it out. Man that would be interesting!

I mean you might as well just play a human player at that point. That would accomplish much more, much faster, and much easier.

 

[MookieRah]

I think what you're thinking about is not DI, but SDI.

I am very aware of what DI and SDI is, and the CPU isn't DI'ing at all here. Normal DI makes a big difference in the trajectory after you hit someone with Marth's uair. Every time I hit the Fox CPU it went straight up. The CPU does randomly DI the other attacks, as there is a large variance as to their trajectories upon being hit. Tipper fair is a good example of the DI obviously working for other moves.

@ Scroll
What you are wanting is either impossible or impractical. It's not worth their time to make a CPU play like a human, because it would be very difficult and honestly still wouldn't be much better. Altering recovery patterns... that might be possible, but it would still require a lot of work.

 

[Scroll]

I mean you might as well just play a human player at that point. That would accomplish much more, much faster, and much easier.

True, but you don't always have humans around to play with. To each their own, but I learn some things better when I am alone. I can pause or play nonstop for hours, go frame by frame etc etc.

I am very aware of what DI and SDI is, and the CPU isn't DI'ing at all here. Normal DI makes a big difference in the trajectory after you hit someone with Marth's uair. Every time I hit the Fox CPU it went straight up. The CPU does randomly DI the other attacks, as there is a large variance as to their trajectories upon being hit. Tipper fair is a good example of the DI obviously working for other moves.

@ Scroll
What you are wanting is either impossible or impractical. It's not worth their time to make a CPU play like a human, because it would be very difficult and honestly still wouldn't be much better. Altering recovery patterns... that might be possible, but it would still require a lot of work.

I know. One is allowed to dream though, isn't he?`

 

[Cpt.Love]

Hey, I'm trying to practice wall teching Marth's F-Smash using the spam and freeze commands but whenever i freeze Marth in his F-smash I can never get the frame where his sword is on the ground (and active) but always the same frame (16) when his sword is still coming down
I went in Develop mode and just spammed L+R D-pad right and it kept freezing at frame 6, 11, 16, 1 etc
It's weird because freezing every other move seems fine...

 

[Scroll]

Hey, I'm trying to practice wall teching Marth's F-Smash using the spam and freeze commands but whenever i freeze Marth in his F-smash I can never get the frame where his sword is on the ground (and active) but always the same frame (16) when his sword is still coming down
I went in Develop mode and just spammed L+R D-pad right and it kept freezing at frame 6, 11, 16, 1 etc
It's weird because freezing every other move seems fine...

have you tried pausing with start and then frame advance with Z?

 

[CeLL]

Hey, I'm trying to practice wall teching Marth's F-Smash using the spam and freeze commands but whenever i freeze Marth in his F-smash I can never get the frame where his sword is on the ground (and active) but always the same frame (16) when his sword is still coming down
I went in Develop mode and just spammed L+R D-pad right and it kept freezing at frame 6, 11, 16, 1 etc
It's weird because freezing every other move seems fine...

I actually experienced this too. I thought I was just really sucking at timing it though lol

 

[Myougi]

I actually experienced this too. I thought I was just really sucking at timing it though lol

Before all these wonderful 20XX hack packs, back in my day we used Falco's target test to practice Wall-teching and Wall-jump-teching. Just pick Falco in target test, as soon as you spawn hold left, and once you get hit by the glowing block tech off the opposite wall.

Anyway, tip for avoiding Marth's F-smash (and most other Smashes) - Make sure you SDI into the stage, then tech. You can't tech thin air. Slam your Control stick and C-stick in the direction of the stage the moment you're hit. It'll take some practice but it only takes a little. After you SDI (you should be able to see yourself move a little in hitstun toward the stage) a fraction of a second later hit L or R and tech the wall. If you're playing Falco/Fox/Mario/YL/Etc slam the Control stick in the opposite direction to the stage and wall jump tech. If you're Fox/Falco you can Side-B edge grab before Marth can recover from his animation then do an invincible waveland (stall and regain invincibility if you need too!) and get out of Marth's way to recover.

 

[CeLL]

Before all these wonderful 20XX hack packs, back in my day we used Falco's target test to practice Wall-teching and Wall-jump-teching. Just pick Falco in target test, as soon as you spawn hold left, and once you get hit by the glowing block tech off the wall.

Anyway, tip for avoiding Marth's F-smash (and most other Smashes) - Make sure you SDI into the stage, then tech. You can't tech thin air.

Oh yeah I practice with Falco's dsmash. I literally have like a 100% success rate. It's not really hard.

 

[Stride]

Make sure you SDI into the stage, then tech. You can't tech thin air.

Assuming that you're in a state where you're unable to airdodge (such as during a recovery move), I wouldn't recommend this; you should hit the tech button and then SDI. If you are able to airdodge then you're forced to input the tech during the hitlag or you'll end up airdodging (you can still tech during the airdodge but you'll die if you don't get hit by something), but otherwise there's no reason to SDI first.

The SDI has to be input during hitlag, but tech window is 20 frames and activates regardless of your action state so there's no need to do it so late; inputting the tech earlier reduces the chances of messing up (either from a technical error or misjudging when you're going to be hit). It's not a big deal, but I can't see a reason to SDI first.

Slam your Control stick and C-stick in the direction of the stage the moment you're hit.

If you're already holding the control stick in a direction then holding the C-stick in the same direction will do nothing. The C-stick does not apply SDI; it only applies ASDI (which overrides the control stick's ASDI input). You do not get additional SDI or ASDI by inputting the same direction on both sticks. The only reason to use dual-stick DI is if you want to DI/SDI and ASDI in different directions at the same time (for Amsah techs).

Some attacks can be ledge-teched using just ASDI if you're close enough to the ledge/stage. Marth's F-smash is one such attack (assuming you're coming from below at least; I'm not sure about other angles).