Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Coricus]

You underestimate the internet. Or in this case is it overestimating?

I mean yeah it's more than that but I wouldn't put it past the internet.




And, I truly don't mean to be rude when I ask this, but why do you keep "following the breadcrumbs"? This is certainly not the first time you've gone back in time to find old evidence of something or anther. While I applaud your desire to find the Truth and as much evidence you can, I don't quite see the point with doing it so often with such trivial matters.

Because no one explains anything to me other than a very basic one-sided understanding without evidence.

I want to go off of more than just a simple black-and-white understanding of whatever is going on that's been filtered down, but no one seems willing to provide evidence. And whenever people are this hot-tempered about "with us or against us," it makes me want to know who's really in the right instead of just going with the flow.

Unfortunately I tend to carry a bit of bias towards the bigoted end due to feeling like I'm being both explained less and patronized by the more morally upright groups, but I've been hoping someone would show me a good example of a place where I could see the more modern standard presented in a properly explained fashion that I can understand without just feeling even more baffled and like I have to walk on eggshells.

I don't know, maybe I got tired of all the bizarre standards people have for Smash characters without having any idea what a "deserving" roster would be, started researching a few things there, and the habit started carrying over into other discussions that I walked into.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Because no one explains anything to me other than a very basic one-sided understanding without evidence.

I want to go off of more than just a simple black-and-white understanding of whatever is going on that's been filtered down, but no one seems willing to provide evidence. And whenever people are this hot-tempered about "with us or against us," it makes me want to know who's really in the right instead of just going with the flow.

Unfortunately I tend to carry a bit of bias towards the bigoted end due to feeling like I'm being both explained less and patronized by the more morally upright groups, but I've been hoping someone would show me a good example of a place where I could see the more modern standard presented in a properly explained fashion that I can understand without just feeling even more baffled and like I have to walk on eggshells.

I don't know, maybe I got tired of all the bizarre standards people have for Smash characters without having any idea what a "deserving" roster would be, started researching a few things there, and the habit started carrying over into other discussions that I walked into.

I suppose that makes sense. I've seen plenty of one-sided, evidence-less arguments all over the place so I suppose I can see he desire to find the facts.

Sounds like you would make a good SourceGaming researcher

But just don't go wasting time on nothing if you have something better to do. I'm all for logic and evidence (I mean. . i've had ike 7 Ace Attorney avatars by now) but i'm not a fan of people wasting precious time over an argument over the internet.

 

[Coricus]

I suppose that makes sense. I've seen plenty of one-sided, evidence-less arguments all over the place so I suppose I can see he desire to find the facts.

Sounds like you would make a good SourceGaming researcher

But just don't go wasting time on nothing if you have something better to do. I'm all for logic and evidence (I mean. . i've had ike 7 Ace Attorney avatars by now) but i'm not a fan of people wasting precious time over an argument over the internet.

I think part of it is that it never occurs to me that I could have something better to do with my time. Every time I think of sitting down and working on something a little more positive, I start questioning myself and never get around to actually doing anything. And I don't exactly have any immediate plans for my time.

I suppose I do feel ashamed of myself for trying too hard to investigate, especially when I'm terrible at it and tend to go in with a bias. But I feel ashamed of myself for pretty much everything else I do and could do as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of Jojo, I just found this

Spoiler: Part 3 spoilers, somewhat

It's funny when you realize this is basically what he was doing

Oh, and he is called Kars-Senpai by Jorge.

I need a pic of this
The other Pillar Men didn't even call Kars "senpai" snh:/

 

[Z25]

It's definitely an interesting theory, and I can definitely see parts of it potentially panning out. Though in particular, I have an issue with the second point.

I don't think Phoenix Mode was a way to appeal to a younger audience, but a different audience: that audience being Visual Novel fans who play for the story and nothing more. And honestly most visual novel fans aren't young to begin with either. So in that regard, I don't see Fire Emblem ever getting to the point of a less-than-T rating.

Fully agree on the Deeprealms thing though; it seriously made zero sense.

I do disagree with the degree in which censorship may affect it though: particularly, the example he used of eliminating entire chapters. That really doesn't seem like something Nintendo would do, as that's an incredibly bad practice. And honestly, it's kind of ironic he used Pokemon's lessening of maturity as an example when Black and White 2 straight up had the antagonist attempt to murder you, and X and Y had the whole war from 3,000 years ago where it's explicitly stated that many humans and Pokemon died in combat.

Over all, an interesting video, though I believe a few of the concerns are either unfounded or a bit exaggerated. Definitely food for thought though.

Good points with pokemon. BW2 was Dark, but XY is a thousand times worse.

It's implied that AZ murdered thousands of pokemon to bring back floette( the dialog says that after realizing many pokemon lost their lives to bring it back, Floette was sad. And eventually leaves). AZ isn't satisfied though, he turns the ultimate weapon into a weapon not a reviver. Using it, he single handedly kills everyone in the war, humans and pokemon as it's implied. The war ends because of this. Floette is disgusted and leaves. AZ is now cursed with immorality due to whatever makes the weapon.( So essentially it's like radiation, and could made as an analogy to nukes)Cursed with this, AZ wanders for 3,000 years, watching the world change and go into chaos. He also participates in the second war that established parfum palace( I think, maybe this was a fan theory).

AZ eventually realizes his mistakes from the XY protagonist and is able to achieve eternal peace, sorrow, and acceptance. Seeing that he has changed, Floette returns.

I can't wait to see what Sun and Moon does! I hope that the evil team awakens zygarde and trigger the ultimate weapon, causing destruction, and a war to almost start again... But that probably won't happen.

Jeez I skip one game in the series that isn't a remake and this is what I miss?

B/W is my favorite pokemon too.


EDIT and I realize after I post this that I was listening to Ghetsis's battle theme from 2 while I was typing and have been for nearly half an hour.

You haven't played black and white 2?

-misses bad *** team flare and Ghetius

-villains turn good

-The fabulousness that is N

- The awesome final battle

-An edgey/ but caring rival

-More serious story

-Lots and lots of character development

-The world tournament

-New effects of BW's story

-Everything else that made the games great,

You can just leave!

 

[A Distant Demon]

Im addicted to KH Unchained.

black and white 2

- team flare

wut

You can just leave!

I thought we were all leaving. You know, for Antarctica D:

 

[Z25]

Im addicted to KH Unchained.

wut

I thought we were all leaving. You know, for Antarctica D:

Lol was thinking of XY with my earlier part of that post!

They are basically the same lol. Both teams want to kill everyone, Flare is just more up front.

And yes we are! Or another planet if the earth gets destroyed xD.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's definitely an interesting theory, and I can definitely see parts of it potentially panning out. Though in particular, I have an issue with the second point.

I don't think Phoenix Mode was a way to appeal to a younger audience, but a different audience: that audience being Visual Novel fans who play for the story and nothing more. And honestly most visual novel fans aren't young to begin with either. So in that regard, I don't see Fire Emblem ever getting to the point of a less-than-T rating.

Fully agree on the Deeprealms thing though; it seriously made zero sense.

I do disagree with the degree in which censorship may affect it though: particularly, the example he used of eliminating entire chapters. That really doesn't seem like something Nintendo would do, as that's an incredibly bad practice. And honestly, it's kind of ironic he used Pokemon's lessening of maturity as an example when Black and White 2 straight up had the antagonist attempt to murder you, and X and Y had the whole war from 3,000 years ago where it's explicitly stated that many humans and Pokemon died in combat.

Over all, an interesting video, though I believe a few of the concerns are either unfounded or a bit exaggerated. Definitely food for thought though.

I would agree with you on Phoenix Mode if it weren't for the fact that, if they wanted to make a straight up "Visual Novel" mode...they probably would have done that, since adding "gameplay skips" is becoming a real point of discussion lately and is being done more and more. Plus, Casual Mode was already viewed as easy going enough as it was anyway.

It's not unfounded to think they made Phoenix Mode for younger audiences when you consider how exposed a kid is now to Fire Emblem. 6 characters from the series are in Smash, which in turn led to toys of them being made. Plus Fire Emblem has a presence in Nintendo's marketing now, alongside more kid friendly stuff. Kids are fairly exposed to the franchise and it could easily grab their attention with the fantastical elements ("I want the game with the dwagon man, mommy!") and anime character designs (which are viewed as "cartoony" to the average Western consumer). It makes sense they would want to cash in on that.

And honestly, having a "Kid Mode" is a fine idea - I remember the Spider-Man games on the PS1 did that well. It just should be it's own thing, as an option, rather than totally hampering the experience for fans.

 

[Coricus]

I would agree with you on Phoenix Mode if it weren't for the fact that, if they wanted to make a straight up "Visual Novel" mode...they probably would have done that, since adding "gameplay skips" is becoming a real point of discussion lately and is being done more and more. Plus, Casual Mode was already viewed as easy going enough as it was anyway.

It's not unfounded to think they made Phoenix Mode for younger audiences when you consider how exposed a kid is now to Fire Emblem. 6 characters from the series are in Smash, which in turn led to toys of them being made. Plus Fire Emblem has a presence in Nintendo's marketing now, alongside more kid friendly stuff. Kids are fairly exposed to the franchise and it could easily grab their attention with the fantastical elements ("I want the game with the dwagon man, mommy!") and anime character designs (which are viewed as "cartoony" to the average Western consumer). It makes sense they would want to cash in on that.

And honestly, having a "Kid Mode" is a fine idea - I remember the Spider-Man games on the PS1 did that well. It just should be it's own thing, as an option, rather than totally hampering the experience for fans.

Phoenix Mode isn't just an option?

I'm tired and saying a lot of dumb stuff right now, but it seems like the fans could easily just not play Phoenix Mode if they wanted to and would complain about any easier difficulty level. How does Phoenix Mode hamper the experience for fans when they can just choose not to select it?

 

[Ivander]

Phoenix Mode isn't just an option?

I'm tired and saying a lot of dumb stuff right now, but it seems like the fans could easily just not play Phoenix Mode if they wanted to and would complain about any easier difficulty level. How does Phoenix Mode hamper the experience for fans when they can just choose not to select it?

Phoenix Mode is just an option, so people can not choose it.

 

[Champ Gold]

Phoenix Mode is just an option, so people can not choose it.

It's an option but that option feels insulting to fans and they have a right to be upset about it.


I can ignore it and go for Classic Normal but that doesn't mean that I won't be annoyed or upset and it was made for that VN audience who care about the supports and story and super casuals/kids.

Hell Casual Mode was still a ***** in Awakening because how much it can still kick your tail at higher difficulties

 

[AlphaSSB]

Oh. So this is where the cool kids hang out at. I didn't really know what the Nintenzone was until just now.

 

[BananaBake]

Phoenix Mode isn't just an option?

I'm tired and saying a lot of dumb stuff right now, but it seems like the fans could easily just not play Phoenix Mode if they wanted to and would complain about any easier difficulty level. How does Phoenix Mode hamper the experience for fans when they can just choose not to select it?

Bruh I feel the same way with items in Sm4sh

 

[Deleted member]

I can ignore it and go for Classic Normal but that doesn't mean that I won't be annoyed or upset and it was made for that VN audience who care about the supports and story and super casuals/kids.

And that's what I really don't get. Various difficulties have existed for quite awhile now. Phoenix mode is really pushing it, sure. But to be honest, I hardly see how it's any different than very easy modes in fighting games or FPS. Where if your decent at the game it's practically a walk through.(In most fighting games they practically stand there most of the time.)

Sure, Phoenix mode is way too easy, but you got to keep in mind that it is indeed for those kinds of people you just mentioned. And I don't see a problem with that, they're going to want to take it up a notch eventually anyway.

 

[A Distant Demon]

You want to know what is nice? Options. Lot's of them. You can never have enough options. Ever.

Phoenix mode is just another one. While the idea of Phoenix mode is strange it certainly isn't a negative because it is an option. Now, the implications of what a phoenix mode means for the difficulty of the series in the future. . .is another story but most people are ignoring that when discussing Phoenix mode's worth.

 

[Z25]

Oh. So this is where the cool kids hang out at. I didn't really know what the Nintenzone was until just now.

Welcome! The N zone is a bit under known, but it's a fun place! Happy to have you!

 

[Ivander]

It's an option but that option feels insulting to fans and they have a right to be upset about it.


I can ignore it and go for Classic Normal but that doesn't mean that I won't be annoyed or upset and it was made for that VN audience who care about the supports and story and super casuals/kids.

Hell Casual Mode was still a ***** in Awakening because how much it can still kick your tail at higher difficulties

Oh, I'm not a fan of it either, as I feel games should have difficulty, which Phoenix Mode doesn't. But I don't see a problem with it after the game is beaten, since after you've beaten the game, the next thing you probably want to do is fill out the supports and learn more about the characters. Especially with Conquest being no-grinding(besides DLC and Castle stuff) and how much I've been hearing about Conquest's difficulty and how many times I hear about people continuously resetting.

That being said, I feel Phoenix Mode should be one of those unlockables you get after doing the really challenging stuff, like Lunatic. Basically, get the "Don't Worry! Be Happy!" mode after getting screwed over again and again.

Edit: Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I have Red on my team now.

 

[Kurri ★]

It's an option but that option feels insulting to fans and they have a right to be upset about it.


I can ignore it and go for Classic Normal but that doesn't mean that I won't be annoyed or upset and it was made for that VN audience who care about the supports and story and super casuals/kids.

Hell Casual Mode was still a ***** in Awakening because how much it can still kick your tail at higher difficulties

You're annoyed that someone chooses a difficulty option that isn't difficult?

 

[Deleted member]

Oh. So this is where the cool kids hang out at. I didn't really know what the Nintenzone was until just now.

Welcome to Hell Nintenzone. Enjoy your stay.

.........Wait, wrong thread. Ah screw it, it's a good initation video.

 

[Champ Gold]

It's not the fact that it exist but just that grim reminder that what could the future hold. I like Ivander idea of making it unlockable and I'm probably in defense of Star Fox Zero's God Mode due to it being a spectator mode


But I can't be miffed about it, I just HAVE to accept it? **** that noise. Fire Emblem is known for Permadeath, so why shouldn't I not be annoyed by it, I never said it was a bad addition but damn, people just really don't understand and it isn't even the causal vs hardcore aspect, it's similar to the Golden Leaf in Super Mario 3D Land/World and the Pig guide in the DKCR games, that stuff seems insulting to most people.

But it's an ignorable option so that makes it okay but unlike SFZ where it's more a spectator mode, it's made for the hyper causal people that if they are playing the game that way then what's the point. And don't use modern games these days because their difficulty ranges from super easy to artificial difficulty for the sake of seeming like its hard.


But it's just a mode, right guys?

 

[Substitution]

It's not the fact that it exist but just that grim reminder that what could the future hold. I like Ivander idea of making it unlockable and I'm probably in defense of Star Fox Zero's God Mode due to it being a spectator mode


But I can't be miffed about it, I just HAVE to accept it? **** that noise. Fire Emblem is known for Permadeath, so why shouldn't I not be annoyed by it, I never said it was a bad addition but damn, people just really don't understand and it isn't even the causal vs hardcore aspect, it's similar to the Golden Leaf in Super Mario 3D Land/World and the Pig guide in the DKCR games, that stuff seems insulting to most people.

But it's an ignorable option so that makes it okay but unlike SFZ where it's more a spectator mode, it's made for the hyper causal people that if they are playing the game that way then what's the point. And don't use modern games these days because their difficulty ranges from super easy to artificial difficulty for the sake of seeming like its hard.


But it's just a mode, right guys?

Yeah. It's just a mode.
Like... I'm sorry but no one is forcing you to use it. It's not like Nintendo is putting a gun to your head and will fire if you don't pick the casual mode.

If anything it's just there as an option for more casual players. You can still go on your way without picking the easier solutions. I died plenty of times in modern Mario games, and even then I was never forced to use the Super Leaf. Nor did I have to pick Casual Mode or else bad things happen to me.

It's called customizing the experience. There's nothing wrong with adding a little more diversity for different audiences. Not everyone wants to struggle though a game as if it's the only way to play it.

 

[Kurri ★]

It's not the fact that it exist but just that grim reminder that what could the future hold. I like Ivander idea of making it unlockable and I'm probably in defense of Star Fox Zero's God Mode due to it being a spectator mode


But I can't be miffed about it, I just HAVE to accept it? **** that noise. Fire Emblem is known for Permadeath, so why shouldn't I not be annoyed by it, I never said it was a bad addition but damn, people just really don't understand and it isn't even the causal vs hardcore aspect, it's similar to the Golden Leaf in Super Mario 3D Land/World and the Pig guide in the DKCR games, that stuff seems insulting to most people.

But it's an ignorable option so that makes it okay but unlike SFZ where it's more a spectator mode, it's made for the hyper causal people that if they are playing the game that way then what's the point. And don't use modern games these days because their difficulty ranges from super easy to artificial difficulty for the sake of seeming like its hard.


But it's just a mode, right guys?

Wait, how is it an insult? What's so insulting that someone can experience the same game, but easier (or in some cases with no difficulty at all)?

What the future could hold is video games becoming more accessible to larger audience which isn't a bad thing in the slightest. It's not like having a super easy mode is going to ruin video games forever, you're still going to have your dark souls, you're still going to have your Super Meat Boys, you're still going to have difficulty options. All these things are still going to be there, it's just now there's an even easier option for people who'd prefer that.

 

[Aetheri]

1st I'm an ancient King that can turn into a boat...second I'm a Demon King that can turn into a Pig...third I'm a reincarnated goddess in princess form that can turn into either a ninja or a pirate...

edit: for some reason the link doesn't want to link so **** it...

So apparently I'm royalty of some kind that can transform into various things...

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, the rumor of Smash NX from Dr. Serkan Toto is technically still alive, right?

 

[Substitution]

Hey, the rumor of Smash NX from Dr. Serkan Toto is technically still alive, right?

At this point I'm not trusting any bit of info unless it comes from Nintendo themselves.
Anything apart from them is just speculation and nothing else.

 

[Burruni]

Hey, the rumor of Smash NX from Dr. Serkan Toto is technically still alive, right?

It's not been officially deconfirmed but we have nothing to support it besides him saying that it's going to happen.

 

[Aetheri]

Hey, the rumor of Smash NX from Dr. Serkan Toto is technically still alive, right?

I haven't heard anything to discredit or verify the rumour even further so technically...yes it's still alive...

Plus it makes sense from a marketing standpoint for nintendo to release a Smash port as a launch title...

I will remain the skeptic since we know next to nothing about the NX in general...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I like casual mode because you are at least punished in the mission itself by having less characters.

It also was less frustrating because I didn't have to reset over and over.

 

[Coricus]

It's not the fact that it exist but just that grim reminder that what could the future hold. I like Ivander idea of making it unlockable and I'm probably in defense of Star Fox Zero's God Mode due to it being a spectator mode


But I can't be miffed about it, I just HAVE to accept it? **** that noise. Fire Emblem is known for Permadeath, so why shouldn't I not be annoyed by it, I never said it was a bad addition but damn, people just really don't understand and it isn't even the causal vs hardcore aspect, it's similar to the Golden Leaf in Super Mario 3D Land/World and the Pig guide in the DKCR games, that stuff seems insulting to most people.

But it's an ignorable option so that makes it okay but unlike SFZ where it's more a spectator mode, it's made for the hyper causal people that if they are playing the game that way then what's the point. And don't use modern games these days because their difficulty ranges from super easy to artificial difficulty for the sake of seeming like its hard.


But it's just a mode, right guys?

If you have concerns about the possibility of all difficulty levels dropping in difficulty or about level design becoming shoddy because the game is focusing on other things more than the actual core gameplay, that's fine. I can understand that, and it's a legitimate concern.

But the way you're putting it, regardless of your intentions, is leaving the impression that you're partially upset because casual players are playing the game in a way you don't approve of, which. . . isn't really the best way to put it.

And yes, Phoenix Mode is just a mode. It's like the Super Dolphin mode on Ecco the Dolphin 3D. You can just breeze through the game if you want to, but no one is making you do it.

And if your issue lies somewhere other than the mode itself, then actually point out that potential issue instead of complaining about Phoenix Mode, otherwise there's a possibility they could take out Phoenix Mode because you asked them to and then just do what you're afraid of anyway.

 

[AreJay25]

"Swamp".

Nice to know Shrek took over the social thread.

 

[Opossum]

As you can see, the theme of today's title is "Minimalism."

 

[Aetheri]

Swamp is no longer just part of the title I see...

Edit: Also as you can see I'm swapping princesses for the time being...

 

[wildvine47]

Honestly I actually like stuff like Phoenix Mode and Super Kong because in my mind it's the perfect solution to the problem that arises in trying to make games accessible to both hardcore and casual gamers.

Something like the Retro DKCs is a perfect example. With Super Kong mode in them, they were able to make a lot of levels REALLY hard for the hardcore long-term fans like myself who love the challenge, but little kids who are picking this game up for the first time can still enjoy the parts of the game they can beat and have Super Kong beat the parts they can't for them. Plus, because Super Kong shows them how to beat the level, they can learn things with it they wouldn't have known how to do otherwise and get better at the game.

tl;dr, with play-it-for-you options like Phoenix Mode and Super Kong, developers don't have to sacrifice difficulty to appease the casual crowd. It's a great way to make sure their product reaches as many audiences as it can.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

The title genuinely moved me.

I think I even shed a tear.....

 

[Champ Gold]

We are now the Swamp.

Tebow is proud of us

 

[Kurri ★]

If you have concerns about the possibility of all difficulty levels dropping in difficulty or about level design becoming shoddy because the game is focusing on other things more than the actual core gameplay, that's fine. I can understand that, and it's a legitimate concern.

But the way you're putting it, regardless of your intentions, is leaving the impression that you're partially upset because casual players are playing the game in a way you don't approve of, which. . . isn't really the best way to look at it.

And yes, Phoenix Mode is just a mode. It's like the Super Dolphin mode on Ecco the Dolphin 3D. You can just breeze through the game if you want to, but no one is making you do it.

And if your issue lies somewhere other than the mode itself, then actually point out that potential issue instead of complaining about Phoenix Mode, otherwise there's a possibility they could take out Phoenix Mode because you asked them to and then just do what you're afraid of anyway.

The thing is, even the introduction of an ultra easy mode doesn't mean that game devs are going to dumb down every game or make things boring. Providing an option to make the game more accessible is just that, making the game more accessible.

 

[Coricus]

The thing is, even the introduction of an ultra easy mode doesn't mean that game devs are going to dumb down every game or make things boring. Providing an option to make the game more accessible is just that, making the game more accessible.

I agree, I'm just trying to put it a little delicately. Not that I've necessarily done the best job of that, but. . .

Basically, I understand that the possibility of it being dumbed down is something he's worried about, but the mode itself isn't really a problem in the slightest. It just makes it easier for more people to get into the game, which is only bad if you want the series to be some kind of exclusive clique.

Which wasn't doing too well for FE, mind you.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I shall consume.

 

[Champ Gold]

I agree, I'm just trying to put it a little delicately. Not that I've necessarily done the best job of that, but. . .

Basically, I understand that the possibility of it being dumbed down is something he's worried about, but the mode itself isn't really a problem in the slightest. It just makes it easier for more people to get into the game, which is only bad if you want the series to be some kind of exclusive clique.

Which wasn't doing too well for FE, mind you.

Yeah but Awakening did that as well as not made it TOO easy for it.


Why do I feel this way, blame Pokemon. It's a easy as hell game series overall which became even easier to the point where it insulted my intelligence. All of that just to appease that audience of Ho care more about IVs, EVs and raising Pokemon for the competitive aspect which made it look like a below average RPG.

You can say I'm wrong for thinking that way but don't try to play bull**** mental gymnastics just to defend how even worst the causualization hit Pokemon to where the term post-game is none existent

 

[N3ON]

lol Social Swamp.

Most accurate title so far. xP