Standard Lloid vs Pushy Lloid

[SoniCraft]

Hey guys, Soni here. So with customs likely becoming more mainstream because of EVO allowing them, I think it's important that we establish the strengths and weaknesses of the standard lloid compared to the pushy lloid, and vice versa.

I started thinking about this more when @zeezee brought up once that he would rather use standard lloid against Greninja than pushy lloid because of certain reasons. I think it'd be very beneficial if we figured out which MUs give you a better chance with one lloid over the other, and which MUs it's totally up to preference.

We can also talk about them very generally, like new tech that's discovered, edgeguarding possibilities, etc. We can discuss combos, which lloid racks up more damage, which is better for pressure, all sorts of stuff!

And of course, if you so desire, you can bring up the so-far-neglected Liftoff Lloid. Who knows what we may be missing on this poor guy.

So I guess to start off, let's see if we can get some basic data down on the OP so we can use it as a reference for as long as this thread is alive(which I hope it stays alive for a while). Can anybody contribute to this aspect?(@Indigo Jeans)

 

[Antonykun]

Rule of thumb, if you want to zone and trap use Lloyd Rocket, if you want to win projectile wars, use Pushy Lloyd.

 

[Wonderf]

Lloid Rocket:
Damage: Does 5% or 7% (close range), does 12% if the rocket slows down all the way and blows up (doesn't stale)
Riding the rocket does 16% (doesn't stale)
Range: Can almost go from one side of FD to the other
For riding, pushing forward can almost cross about 1 1/2 of FD and pushing backwards, you can cover half of FD

Pushy Rocket:
Damage: Does 1%, 2%, 1% then 6% (10% in total) but when you use it again it does 2%, 1%, 2% then 6% (11% in total)
Riding the rocket does 1%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 6% (13% in total)
Range: Can only go about half of FD
For riding pushing forward will only gain you a tiny bit more distance while pushing backwards goes about 1/4 of FD
Also Pushy Rocket annihilates all projectiles thrown at it (I think)

Conclusion:
It depends on your preference, pushy rocket is good for people like to go aggressive and/or stay in the middle of the stage. Meanwhile, lloid rocket is pretty good for passive players, having good range, zone control and if you want to mix up your approach by riding in on that rocket.
My preference is lloid rocket because it fits my play-style of jumping around the ledge.
Please correct me if I'm wrong in anyway.

 

[Nintendoge_]

Just an opinion, but here we go.

I love Pushy Lloid. It gets people away from you and locks them in, easily leading into a string of slingshots. If used correctly, it can easily pushes people right off/towards the ledge, aiding you in setting up an edge guard, which is where (my) Villager thrives. I also think it helpswithn stage control, as if you have an aggressive/rushdown opponent, a landed pushy lloid easily gives you the time to set up a tree or some other defense to keep them off of you. I also believe it consumes more damage (just an observation, may not be true), meaning it's awesome to use against projectile-oriented characters. Despite it's limited range, it also aids me in zoning characters out. People just seem more tentative to approach when I have a pushy lloid out versus a regular lloid (although I haven't had as much experience playing against players with pushy Lloid).

Still love standard Lloid. Both are great moves, just fit different playstyles/matchups.

EDIT: Just thought of this, but pushy Lloid has huge potential for doubles. Pushy Lloid into a teammate's fully-charged smash attack. Villager can't follow up like that as the rocket goes too fast, but a teammate could easily kill someone at extremely low percents this way..

 

[SoniCraft]

How much more durable is the pushy lloid compared to standard?

 

[Antonykun]

How much more durable is the pushy lloid compared to standard?

regular lloyd has a thing where it detonates with all clankable projectiels including fireballs and lemons

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

How much more durable is the pushy lloid compared to standard?

It takes around 4 or 5 shots from Mega Man's Buster. It really helps in that matchup.

 

[Jigglystep]

It takes around 4 or 5 shots from Mega Man's Buster. It really helps in that matchup.

How does it interact with Metal Blade? That projectile has always been a huge pain for me deal with in the matchup.

 

[Antonykun]

How does it interact with Metal Blade? That projectile has always been a huge pain for me deal with in the matchup.

destroys

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

How does it interact with Metal Blade? That projectile has always been a huge pain for me deal with in the matchup.

Metal Blade still goes through due to it being a piercing projectile.

 

[SoniCraft]

Since we're already talking about a custom move for villager, what about all the custom megaman projectiles? How do they interact with pushy/standard lloid?

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Since we're already talking about a custom move for villager, what about all the custom megaman projectiles? How do they interact with pushy/standard lloid?

The moves that clank with Lloid are: Mega Buster Shots, Charge Shot, Crash Bomber, Ice Slasher, Danger Wrap, Hyper Bomb. Every other projectile will pass through Lloid. In reality you only need to worry about Metal Blade, Shadow Blade and Skull Barrier, and to a far less extent the projectile thrown Leaf Shield and Plant Barrier.

If for some reason you are under your Lloid, Hard Knuckle will plow through Lloid and still hit you.

 

[SoniCraft]

The moves that clank with Lloid are: Mega Buster Shots, Charge Shot, Crash Bomber, Ice Slasher, Danger Wrap, Hyper Bomb. Every other projectile will pass through Lloid. In reality you only need to worry about Metal Blade, Shadow Blade and Skull Barrier, and to a far less extent the projectile thrown Leaf Shield and Plant Barrier.

If for some reason you are under your Lloid, Hard Knuckle will plow through Lloid and still hit you.

This list goes for both standard lloid and pushy lloid?

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

This list goes for both standard lloid and pushy lloid?

It applies to all the Side B variants.

 

[Monado Master]

Personally i like using the normal lloyd, because i like spamming it.

 

[SoniCraft]

Personally i like using the normal lloyd, because i like spamming it.

What's different about spamming normal lloid than spamming pushy lloid?

 

[Antonykun]

regular Lloyd has more range

 

[Monado Master]

What's different about spamming normal lloid than spamming pushy lloid?

regular Lloyd has more range

Yep, Antonykun is right.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

What's wrong with the third LLoid custom? Is it that bad or something can someone give me a good explanation about it.

 

[Antonykun]

the angle of liftoff lloyd is...disappointing

 

[TheReflexWonder]

In general, I see Pushy Lloid as close to a direct upgrade from regular Lloid Rocket. In most cases, the opponent is better off letting Lloid pass them, since Villager cannot spawn another one until the current one explodes. When left alone, Pushy Lloid doesn't last nearly as long before it explodes, making it more spammable against opponents who do that. The utility is far, farrr more useful than the extra damage/knockback.

The slower movement and multi-hit of Pushy Lloid keeps opponents locked down in shield for longer, pretty much forbidding jump-into-out-of-shield options, and the fact that it carries opponents on hit makes it a good hit confirm into a F-Air/B-Air, and/or more time to Down-B, and the slower movement makes it take longer for opponents to have a safe-ish space between Lloid and Villager to get in on, which matters both on stage and when you're trying to get on/past the ledge.

 

[zang]

For my aggressive play-style, i much prefer pushy

 

[SoniCraft]

Ok now I wanna ask about Sheik. We all know Sheik gives us some trouble, so choosing the right lloid for the job might be a big help. Is Pushy's extra durability more useful, or is could sheik easily get around it with it being so slow?

 

[Antonykun]

Ok now I wanna ask about Sheik. We all know Sheik gives us some trouble, so choosing the right lloid for the job might be a big help. Is Pushy's extra durability more useful, or is could sheik easily get around it with it being so slow?

pushy doesn't have extra durability it doesn't have regular's property where it would get destroyed if it clanks but sheiks needles are transcendent and don't clank
pick regular for the extra mobility on your anti needle shield