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Stage Counterpick Chart (WIP)

*Cam*

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
1,426
Location
State College, PA
esam pretty much invented pikachu. he so smart. to bad i hear hes a jerk.
ESAM's not a jerk. If he was a jerk, would he come on here at all and try to help people learn Pikachu more? Doubtful. He struck me as a nice guy when I saw him at Salt Mines III.

and its weird cam, maybe i have to play spade, but watching him doesnt impress me. i can tell hes good but idk i think you should be beating him. player 3 is pretty legit though. good luck with that one.
Spade took Reflex to game 5 in Loser's finals at a recent tournament:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbCMZtL2g3k

Spade beat Player-3 in tournament:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5XswKiW0Rw

Spade IS a really good player, but I'm close on his tail. Despite losing the last match of our set pretty badly, I still took him to game 3. On the other hand, I beat Player-3's Marth a week and a half ago. Proof of that too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQcO6YnVw_8

(I love my region. We save everything.)

To keep this on topic, Spade CPed me to Brinstar and that worked really well. Player-3 CPed me to Lylat when I banned Brinstar. I think both are good stages for Marth to take Pikachu to.
 

Ayce God

RIP Nova 9
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
1,023
Location
Nicki Minaj's booty
no, I don't think esam is a jerk. don't know why some people say he can be. he posts nice things on here.

I still dont see it but I'll take your word. (player 3 kinda booty in the ditto)

and yes agreed about the stages.

:phone:
 

*Cam*

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
1,426
Location
State College, PA
You're crazy if you think Joe's Marth is better than Ben's. His Luigi is a lot more polished than his Marth. Player-3 does have a good Marth, but being impressed with his, while claiming that Spade's isn't that good is very wrong.

What character's stages are we on? Are we still on Diddy? I want to stop derailing if at all possible.
 

Ayce God

RIP Nova 9
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
1,023
Location
Nicki Minaj's booty
you're right, I'll have to come play with you guys one day. and sorry for the derail. one more question though if you don mind..in general what three stages does pikachu perform best on?

:phone:
 

*Cam*

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
1,426
Location
State College, PA
you're right, I'll have to come play with you guys one day. and sorry for the derail. one more question though if you don mind..in general what three stages does pikachu perform best on?

:phone:
In general, Battlefield, PS1, FD, and RC, but it really depends on the matchup.
 

Stealth Raptor

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
15,088
Location
Kansas City, Kansas
Ive realized that style can be really significant when picking a stage against marth. An aggressive Marth can take good advantage of a stage with platforms, but if youre playing a Marth thats just gonna sit there and react to your commitments *cough* Shaya *cough* :p than platforms and stage variability make life much easier for pika.

/cant sleep
this is the story of my life vs marth :( aggressive marths (like spade) are my kryptonite and endlessly murder me, but patient marths (like all the marths i practice against) i do very well against :(

probably the best example and first time i really noticed this, at the first genesis i played mike haze in tourney, he mid percent two stocked me on a neutral and low percent one stocked me on delfino, playing the patient playstyle, whereas later on chaz, who plays aggressive, mmd me and flat out three stocked me twice. while you could argue matchup experience difference, it was the difference in playstyles that really flustered me
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
Chaz was also really good at the MU from playing me a ****-ton. Genesis 1 I JUST started beating him more than he beat me.

Also, if Marth's are being aggressive it is even easier. Aggressive Marth's you can punish their options OOS and punish their landings with F-smash and stuff. If they are aggressive their ledge-game is probably butt, so you can hit them out of his options (like nair or fair) 9 times out of 10.
 

Pikabunz

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
6,084
Location
San Antonio, TX
NNID
Pikabunz
3DS FC
1134-8730-8374
Okay, I feel like continuing this again.

Let's discuss IC's and Snake!!

:popo:
Good:
PS1
CS?
Brinstar
RC
Frigate
PS2

Bad:
FD
YI
SV
Lylat
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
:popo:

Ban: FD, YI

FD: As ICs I generally don't playing on FD because I hate approaching solely on the ground (having to outspace my opponent) but against Pikachu this isn't a problem due to his lackluster range. You have no platforms to run to and your only escape is the ledge or a QA above them, which can spell trouble if they interrupt it (Phantom lag/RCO lag sucks, bro). It really doesn't matter what the other 2 bad stages are since FD is by far the worst and should be instabanned, but I'll go over them anyway.

YI. This stage is pretty abysmal for this MU. Yes you have the platform to run away to, but there is no feasible way to damage the ICs without being extremely risky or using a laggy move which can be punished by (insert aerial). You can't shoot T-jolts down to poke at them because the platform will get in the way. Yeah, almost as bad as FD (You still won't get grabbed, although you will just get hit more).

No other stage is really bad in this MU but there are clearly preferable ones.

CP: RC, Brinstar, PS1

Rainbow Cruise is one of Pikachu's best stages, as well as one of IC's worst stages. You can camp the boat (right side) with T-jolts and it is hard for ICs to really approach unless they are going to do some really obvious jump air-dodge to land on the elevation. Either way, be ready to get out of that situation and run to the left and just edgecamp for a little bit. On the part that goes up, try to be below the ICs. Being above them will grant you some T-jolt poking, but you need to do ALL of the work on them at this part. Separate and kill nana (She is surprisingly good at surviving when going up, so never assume she is dead). Most smart ICs will just squall up as high as they can and be prepared for thunder so you can't really separate them. At the top part (after the pendulum) your job is to run away. ICs are really strong on the top part due to the fact that there are walk-offs. However, you can be a little ambitious and aggressive on the donuts (or whatever you want to call the falling platforms) because the ICs will not be able to dash across and CG (I will test to make sure) because the block will interrupt them. You have enough platforms to run away at the top, so you should be fine. Either way, you can expect high level matches on this stage to time-out.

Brinstar: One of the few times you shouldn't ban this stage is against ICs. For once, we don't mind the lava or the slants since we don't gain anything from them in this MU anyway. The lava can and will interrupt CGs. Try to learn the lava timings (it is the same every game) so you can now when you can go in without fear of dying. The size of the blastzones is more beneficial to Pikachu since ICs, in theory, kill you from a grab regardless of stage size while Pikachu doesn't. If you separate them and lava appears, it will make the %s of nana and popo differ by even more, which is good for whenever we get a hit.

PS1: PS1 is a good stage to take ICs because, realistically, we are trying to avoid as much conflict as possible and PS1 gives you transformations for 30 seconds out of 2 minutes (or something like that). The platform configuration of the neutral segment gives us ample room to throw T-jolts as well as run away with QA. Nothing too special here, just the basic MU with a stage that allows time to run down for free.

Some notes on stages that will probably be brought up:

Lylat: This stage isn't too bad in this MU. I played terribly here against Kakera and my T-jolt spacing was pretty off, so nothing I did was effective. THe stage gives you A LOT of room to run, but you have to place your T-jolts way better than most stages.

Frigate: I'm personally not too fond of this stage as Pika in this MU. The first part is only beneficial if you get one of them off of the right side, but it causes more problems for you (you have to recover on stage safely with an ICs right there, GL) than it does for them. There isn't much room to camp, the left platform doesn't assist you with safety too much, and they have really strong ledge pressence on this stage in particular since there isn't a platform you can run to far away. The 2nd part is TERRIBLE for Pikachu. You gain nothing from controlling the center while they gain a lot. The platform is similar to Yoshi's considering it doesn't help us at all while it still allows for pokes. I would say don't do go to this stage, ever. Thankfully, ICs generally won't CP it (I honestly love the stage as ICs)
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
BF is probably our best stage in the MU. We have the room to poke and plenty of options to QA away with and abuse nana. However, I may be influenced because BF is my favorite stage overall so...yeah

SV is OK. Not terrible, but it is a real pain in the balls since you give them free chances to poke you when the platform comes out. Probably the 3rd banned stage, though.

CS is really...polar. Sometimes I have 3 stocked ICs there, and sometimes I've been 3 stocked. Be prepared to use a lot of LG on the 3rd part since it is like FD. That is probably my biggest problem with the stage.
 
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