Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion X2 - Mega Man - New Blood vs. OG SHDL

[Ffamran]

Welcome to the Mega Man matchup discussion. Originally, the discussion was held at the SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion 02 - Mega Man, but I wanted to restart this discussion with a blank slate... Feels like I'm usurping Legend Vermillion... Anyway, shall we begin?

All credit goes to Quas-quas for the original images.​

Here's a link to the main post: SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion - Main Post. This will be more for general matchup discussions like making a suggestion and such. Or, you could head over to the social thread and ask there: Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!. Or PM me if you really have to, but don't make a habit out of it.

Oh, and if you guys and girls want to play each other to have fun or learn about the MU, check out the NNID and FC sharing thread on the Falco boards: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

There's also the regular NNID and FC sharing threads in the Online discussion if you just want to ask anyone to play.

Notice: Some rules, guidelines, and tips. Some of these are a given since you joined any forum.

1. Be respectful of each other. No insults, no trolling, no flaming, or any of that nonsense.
2. Be aware that some of the discussions can and will be old, so don't call out someone for "wrong" data if that post was referring to say, patch 1.0.3 stuff.
3. Be impartial; learn to see things from other sides. So, don't boast about all the advantages. Notice weaknesses and strengths from both parties.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Have fun.

And here is a frame speed ranking of their regular attacks and grabs - no Specials yet, sorry - to clear up on things since sometimes a move may feel slow, but it's actually fast and vice versa. Plus more information doesn't always hurt. Data from http://sixriver.web.fc2.com/ssb4/Character_data.htm - just search for ロックマン using Ctrl + F - and the Complete Hitbox/Frame Data For Every Character thread.

As of patch 1.1.4.

Move Hit Frames||
Jab|2-4, 10-12, 17-21, 22-26, 27-31, 32-36, (infinite), 41-42|7-24, 19-36, 31-48
Dash Attack|8-11 or 12-19|8-8, 11-11, 14-14, 17-17, 20-20, 23-23, 26-26, 36-36
Ftilt|6-8|Same as Jab
Utilt|5-9, 12-16|6-6 or 7-9 or 10-24
Dtilt|7-9|5-8 or 9-21
Side Smash|17-19 or 20-20|19-40 or 79-106 (charged?)
Up Smash|7-12, 13-20|8-8, 11-12, 15-16, 19-20, 23-24, 27-28, 31-31
Down Smash|7-9|17-17 or 18-19 or 20-33
Nair|3-5, 6-9, 14-17, 21-24|Same as Jab
Fair|10-13, 14-17, 18-21, 22-25, 26-27, 28-29|9-11 or 12-17
Bair|4-5 or 6-12|4-4, 7-7, 10-10
Uair|7-11|11-17, 18-31, 32-54, 55-55
Dair|16-19 or 20-30|23-24 or 25-33
Grab|8-9|6-7
Dash Grab|10-11|8-9
Pivot Grab|11-12|9-10

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

You know, for the first 4 months of the game this was the one matchup I played the most with Falco.

I'll be back.

 

[ENKER]

I haven't played a great Falco in a while, unfortunately. But, last time I did, he gave my Mega a lot of trouble with his awesome shine! It makes it tough for us to approach. If I remember correctly, the Mega Mains recommended to each other that we jump over head and use Dair and cross Falco up.

I'm looking forward to this convo, especially now that Falco has changed a bit!

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Soooo... I took a fast look at yoir moveset thread and I didn't really get what changed about the Bird of Prey XD
I don't have much MU experience, but let's try :

●From the point of view, is kinda annoying. Not because of his lasers (crouch4days lel), but mostly because of that moving reflector that can actually cause trips. I mean, Counters are unfair, classic Reflectors are annoying, and then we have that stupid moving reflector that likes to break our spacing.
We have ways around it, like diagonal Metal Blades or falling FAir, but it actually shuts down a good amount of approaches. I wonder how we can kill you...
Other than that, I don't see giving us that much trouble. You can still kill us, but since you aren't too fast, will worry just a little bit less about being punished. We still won't go for YOLO UTilts tho.

 

[Ffamran]

Soooo... I took a fast look at yoir moveset thread and I didn't really get what changed about the Bird of Prey XD

Uair went from frame 10 to 7, lost a sour-spot, and basically functions like a reverse Captain Falcon or ZSS Uair since Falco does a frontflip instead of a backflip, Fair went from being frame 12 to 10, has another hit, and the looping hits connect faster, Nair connects better because of autolink angles being added onto the hits - this also explains the "windbox" which isn't a windbox, but that's another story -, Up Smash's second hit changed from hitting at 13-20 to 12-21, Dair has 1 more frame to its spike hitbox and it doesn't spike grounded opponents, instead, it sends them up at 80 degrees. Oh, and Falco Phantasm has another frame of startup because why not, developers? Fixing the hitbox would have been better.

●From the point of view, is kinda annoying. Not because of his lasers (crouch4days lel), but mostly because of that moving reflector that can actually cause trips. I mean, Counters are unfair, classic Reflectors are annoying, and then we have that stupid moving reflector that likes to break our spacing.
We have ways around it, like diagonal Metal Blades or falling FAir, but it actually shuts down a good amount of approaches. I wonder how we can kill you...

Reflector has a lot of end lag, so it's not safe on shield. Personally, I would use it more for spacing and poking than reflecting most of the stuff Mega Man throws out. If I want to reflect something, it needs to reward me a lot like reflecting Mega Man's Side Smash if I know the Mega Man's fishing for it or I just react right in time. Reflecting lemons, Metal Saw, and even Crash Bomber would be a waste of time since lemons are going to be thing with Mega Man in any of Mega Man's MUs, Metal Saw would be more useful if I had it in my hands, and Crash Bomber feels like it's mostly there to distract me and lose focus on what exactly Mega Man is doing or wants to be doing.

 

[Greward]

As Mega, I don't like this matchup. I'd say it's evenish prepatch.

Reflector invalidates mostly every projectile we have in neutral game besides pellets and crash bomb which become situational. Metal blade can be reflected on reaction so it kinda sucks for us, altho it's still a good move. If done at mid range it should hit us back.
Metal blade isn't very good if you catch it since pellets do invalidate it, I recommend trying to reflect it.
Reflected crash bomb does deal a lot of damage to shields. If you reflect it we'll go on the offensive and it's actually a way for Mega to approach so it's not always worth it to reflect it.
Reflecting a pellet is meh, it will probably clash with another pellet and thus do nothing.
Fsmash is a not very good move which Mega very rarely uses, if you got a reflector we probably won't use it at all lol.

Reflector is big but we can bait it and punish, and Mega will still chip some damage here and there with his projectiles. Just gotta respect it hard (and make us lose quite some options).

F2 jabs are very good against Mega and Falco's does have one with excellent range and damage output. Mega is easy to combo so you can get a followup after a throw up to late %.
In the air Mega got good moves, we will try to pursue in the air with Fair/Bair. Being above us should be the worst position to be.
Falco's recovery is gimpable but not too bad. Mega's rush coil is a bit underwhelming but we have ways around it, although I'm guessing it's gimpable by falco's fair. We have mutliple ways to recover though so it shouldn't be easy.
Mega is hard to kill, and while Falco does have a strong kill game it should be hard to connect anything on Mega. Mega also doesn't have the best killing moves either, although since Falco is light Bthrow with rage becomes a real kill option, else we go with bair / up smash (which is very punishable).

I'm not sure how this matchup develops. Mega can't really stick to his routine metal blade / pellets gameplay and he doesn't have the best options for close range game, but I'm not sure either how does falco gain the superior position. Most of my games in this matchup become grab-heavy as Mega.