Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion 29 - Little Mac - Underdog & Underbird

[Ffamran]

Welcome to the Little Mac matchup discussion.

All credit goes to Quas-quas for the original images.​

Here's a link to the main post: SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion - Main Post. This will be more for general matchup discussions like making a suggestion and such. Or, you could head over to the social thread and ask there: Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!. Or PM me if you really have to, but don't make a habit out of it.

Oh, and if you guys and girls want to play each other to have fun or learn about the MU, check out the NNID and FC sharing thread on the Falco boards: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

There's also the regular NNID and FC sharing threads in the Online discussion if you just want to ask anyone to play.

Notice: Some rules, guidelines, and tips. Some of these are a given since you joined any forum.

1. Be respectful of each other. No insults, no trolling, no flaming, or any of that nonsense.
2. Be aware that some of the discussions can and will be old, so don't call out someone for "wrong" data if that post was referring to say, patch 1.0.3 stuff.
3. Be impartial; learn to see things from other sides. So, don't boast about all the advantages. Notice weaknesses and strengths from both parties.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Have fun.

And here is a frame speed ranking of their regular attacks and grabs - no Specials yet, sorry - to clear up on things since sometimes a move may feel slow, but it's actually fast and vice versa. Plus more information doesn't always hurt. Data from "Show'em Watcha Got, Baby!" - Little Mac Moveset Thread by @Son-in-Law where you can check out Little Mac's other frame data like his Specials and the Complete Hitbox/Frame Data For Every Character threads.

As of patch 1.1.4.

Move Hit Frames||
Jab|2-4, 10-12, 17-21, 22-26, 27-31, 32-36, (infinite), 41-42|1-1, 11-12, 29-29 (Gentleman) or 21-27, 28-34, 35-41, 42-48, 49-55, 56-62, 63-69, 70-76, 77-83, 84-90, (infinite), 99-99
Dash Attack|8-11 or 12-19|7-9
Ftilt|6-8|4-5, 12-13
Utilt|5-9, 12-16|4-10
Dtilt|7-9|3-4
Side Smash|17-19 or 20-20|14-15 (uppercut & straight) or 15-15 (body shot)
Up Smash|7-12, 13-20|10-10 or 11-14
Down Smash|7-9|10-11, 17-18
Nair|3-5, 6-9, 14-17, 21-24|2-2
Fair|10-13, 14-17, 18-21, 22-25, 26-27, 28-29|10-12
Bair|4-5 or 6-12|11-12
Uair|7-11|5-8
Dair|16-19 or 20-31|7-10
Grab|8-9|9-10
Dash Grab|10-11|10-11
Pivot Grab|11-12|11-12

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Lets get all the "hate" out of the way now.
armored smashes
stupid fast frame data
dashes faster than about 90% of the cast

Spacing, spacing, spacing.
Super important for Falco. Stay away, pop your lasers at far range and find a way to get him in the air. Then wail on him without getting caught by the counter.
Throw him off stage and read what the Mac wants to do and punish accordingly. His recovery is his true final boss.

Mac needs to be aggressive but not too aggressive. Know when to back off. He may be fast and strong, but you can't react to everything perfectly. Spacing is also important for him as well. His crazy fast smash attacks will keep Falco off him when he tries to force himself to stay close too long. Most of all you want to not get grabbed and stay on the ground.
Pressure, pressure, pressure.

Overall, I'm feeling Falco has this match-up due being able to pressure at far and close range and certain range advantages. Mac has a hard time getting through the lasers at times. I still wouldn't rely on them though. Falco's edgeguarding is still super solid. If you can mange the reads you can take the stock at very early percents. Mac can still kill very early his fsmash and sweetspot upsmash kill near early 100%
60-40

 

[PHYTO-1]

in falco's favor.

heck if mac uses his double jump offstage- catch him with a stream of lazers and he'll take the train to gimp city

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco's Jab has huge range and punishes a lot of Mac's stuff and actually manages to outbox Mac pretty often. Falco's good lingering hitboxes are also very difficult for Mac to recover against, and to my recollection you can disrespect Mac's counter with U-smash which might actually trade with him. Furthermore the really huge base knockback on Falco's B-throw gives him a lot of opportunities to set up gimps on Mac at very low percents.

While Mac still can't be completely slept on due to the raw KO power of his Smashes, I would agree this matchup is pretty solidly in Falco's favor. 6/4 or so.

 

[Ffamran]

Beware Little Mac's super armor on his Smashes, don't try to challenge his Rising Uppercut, and his Jolt Haymaker is invincible at a certain point that I don't remember when. This MU is probably like a real boxing match if people were allowed to jump around and do dropkicks on the other.

Seriously though, Little Mac will be playing all the styles of boxing: swarmer, out-boxer, slugger, and counter-puncher. Little Mac's sheer speed with attacking and moving on the ground makes him a good swarmer. He will apply pressure on you with jabs, Dash Attacks, Dtilts, and even aerials like Fair if you let him setup the combo for it; I think it's Dtilt, maybe something here, and then Ftilt. Out-boxing is pretty easy with Little Mac because he and Falco will fight at close range and stuff like Ftilt which moves him forward and Little Mac not being that short allows him to space Falco, but who out-spaces the other during the fight will matter. Slugger is good ol' brawlin', and Little Mac will power through stuff with his Smashes. Not only does that help with spacing since Side Smash moves him forward and Down Smash is sort of deceptive in range, but Falco can space well, but get powered through by Little Mac. Counter-puncher is explanatory, Little Mac capitalizes on mistakes with his sheer speed making it easy to get in and get the hit while his hits are hard.

Falco inevitably, also plays the styles of boxing, but slugging might be a bit harder for him since aside from Down Smash which is only intangible on his legs, Falco can't really power through anything. Can he take a beating? Hell yeah, and it helps that he and Little Mac are the same weight, but Falco also has his fast fall speed to help which doesn't really do much in this MU since Little Mac can't really juggle unless you let him by falling into his Utilt, Up Smash, angled up Side Smash, KO Punch, and Rising Uppercut. Falco can overwhelm Little Mac up close and at range which his Blaster and Reflector and unlike in boxing, he can overwhelm Little Mac with juggles. Spacing is important since neither of these guys want to be up close and beating the living day lights out of each other. This isn't a stupid school fight, it's a fight of professionals who don't want to get hit and want to hit as much as they can. Falco's jab might be slower by a frame, but it covers range and Falco moves forward while using jab. I think Falco can intercept Little Mac's Dash Attack if he times it right. Dtilt's disjoint will be a good friend since it still launches Little Mac up for juggles. Punishing is a strong part of Falco's game, but the issue here is that Side Smash won't be a good idea since Little Mac can power through it. As an anti-air and edgeguard, Side Smash can clip Little Mac and punish Little Mac's recovery. Down Smash being intangible and covering both sides allows Falco to catch a roll, but be careful since Little Mac can intercept Falco by powering through it with Smashes or just jabbing. Never get behind Falco as Little Mac and not do anything or be too far. Falco's Bair is a quick and powerful punish - it's his second strongest move and fastest aerial.

When it comes to edgeguarding, Falco can edgeguard Little Mac deep, but there's no point since Little Mac would be too far already to recover. Catching Little Mac recovering high or just catching him at all is what Falco wants, but be careful about Rising Uppercut which I think is invincible. At the same time, you don't want to help Little Mac recover by hitting his Slip Counter which at the same time can backfire on Little Mac if he ends up Slip Countering the wrong way. Little Mac can edgeguard Falco well too. Falco Phantasm having no front hitbox and the fact there's super armor on Little Mac's Smashes means he can punish Falco if he doesn't sweet-spot the ledge or overshoots the ledge. Down Smash basically hovers a bit over the floor and can and will clip Falco if he decides to screws up punishing Little Mac by dipping low and Uairing him. This can either kill Falco, send him back at a shallow angle, or knock him back while taking unnecessary damage. Dtilt can't really do this, but it does go a bit off the ledge meaning Little Mac can hit confirm in KO Punch or Side Smash if he does clip you with Dtilt. And if the Little Mac is daring, he can gimp Falco his aerials or Jolt Haymaker and spike him with Dair.

 

[Zionaze]

The d-throw > fair > regrab is almost guarenteed on this fella. puts him in the most awful position too. Slap him once in the air and he's a goner. 70-30 falco

 

[AmishTechnology]

I'm not so ready to write out Lil Mac. His super armor on FSmash and Dsmash basically act like Naryu's Love in that we can't flinch him with our fast jabs and tilts like we can against most characters. YOLO Lil Mac Smashes are really scary for that reason, and if you play against a player who is confident and smart (or reckless and stupid) with this trait of Mac's, you have to adjust. Your standard pokes are no longer safe. His jab, dtilt, ftilt, utilt.... bah, all his ground moves are stupidly fast and powerful. Not just that, they are stupidly safe against Falco; you don't have the footspeed of Fox to be able to run and grab him during his "lag" after whiffing (if you can even call it lag lol). Down B can really mess with Falco's otherwise safer strings too, though combos can suffice and a read Down B equates to an even harder punish from Falco, so I suppose that works both ways if you fight a Mac who likes using Counter.

Competent Lil Macs should be side-B'ing over your laser and its horrible lag, don't use it in neutral too often...

Honestly, I find Lil Mac harder to gimp at 0-50% than someone like Ganondorf or Bowser lol. The hitbox and priority on his side-B and up-B are stupidly large and powerful. That being said, even if you don't gimp him, you should be able to convert any throw off stage into a ton of pressure, damage, and maintain that powerful positioning advantage you have over him. Also remember, Lil Mac's Counter can be used as a horizontal recovery tool, but a "whiffed" Counter from him sets up quite nicely for a dair, fair, or reverse bair from Falco .

I haven't much experience against GOOD Lil Macs because they are astoundingly rare. Not your For Glory ones, they will lag and beat you with their vastly superior frame data combined with the player input delay haha.

 

[theONEjanitor]

im convinced little mac is garbage and has no matchups in his favor because everyone can back-throw edgeguard for the win. just camp him and make heavy use of your shield. if you get grabbed who cares it's little mac. every time you hit him you should be able to do a massive ass ton of damage because little mac is terrible at falling. literally just throw him up, run under him and stand there. he cant do anything except fast fall and roll and hope he beats your regrab. throw him off the edge and a spaced f-smash will beat up-b and side -b. pick any stage with platforms to make his life 10x harder. if he gets KO punch just run away. counter is useless on the stage unless you're being too aggressive, which there is no reason for you to do because little mac's ground game is superior to yours no matter what character you're playing, so why try to box with him? camp his ass. save the agression for edgeguarding. Counter is only useful to him as a recovery tool, and he probably won't use it that much because it's risky. I know I have just described an incredibly lame strategy, but hey, it wasn't me who put such a stupid character in the game.

main thing you need to watch out for is d-tilt which will ruin your life if you get hit by it, and ftilt which punishes you anytime you do anything remotely unsafe.

 

[Ffamran]

im convinced little mac is garbage and has no matchups in his favor because everyone can back-throw edgeguard for the win. just camp him and make heavy use of your shield. if you get grabbed who cares it's little mac. every time you hit him you should be able to do a massive *** ton of damage because little mac is terrible at falling. literally just throw him up, run under him and stand there. he cant do anything except fast fall and roll and hope he beats your regrab. throw him off the edge and a spaced f-smash will beat up-b and side -b. pick any stage with platforms to make his life 10x harder. if he gets KO punch just run away. counter is useless on the stage unless you're being too aggressive, which there is no reason for you to do because little mac's ground game is superior to yours no matter what character you're playing, so why try to box with him? camp his ***. save the agression for edgeguarding. Counter is only useful to him as a recovery tool, and he probably won't use it that much because it's risky. I know I have just described an incredibly lame strategy, but hey, it wasn't me who put such a stupid character in the game.

main thing you need to watch out for is d-tilt which will ruin your life if you get hit by it, and ftilt which punishes you anytime you do anything remotely unsafe.

That's a shallow way of looking at Little Mac when Solreth's Little Mac gave Nairo a run for his money at CEO. Little Mac is a stage-dependent character unlike most characters in Smash.

Little Mac's grab game is surprisingly good because of his ground speed which like Fox who doesn't have good throws, the throws themselves are used more for positional plays than kills and combos. I think Little Mac can D-throw to Rising Uppercut, though.

Little Mac's air speed is actually faster than Falco's; Little Mac's air speed is tied with Robin and Rosalina's, but he has poorer acceleration. Little Mac also is a fast faller and shares the same fall speed as Mega Man and Falco. He even weighs the same as Falco. They're both going to kill each other at similar percents. Slip Counter can still be used in competitive play if your opponent picks up patterns and reads your predictability. Chaingrabbing doesn't exist in this game as there's a cooldown between grabs. You have to do something first like hitting Little Mac to grab reset and grab him again. Falco can do that with Bair, but not at every percent and definitely not all the time. Also pretty sure Little Mac can just Rising Uppercut to hit you if you just stand there waiting while trying to grab with a character whose grab is one the slower side for a non-tether grabber. Little Mac's aerials are bad, but they're not useless. He can space a Fair and start comboing right away and Nair can still interrupt you despite how much end lag it has.

Rising Uppercut has a lot of priority and it's fast which makes it a good OOS option for Little Mac. It's also able to be setup from jab and Dtilt. Jolt Haymaker is invincible in its startup and I'm pretty sure Falco's Side Smash doesn't have that range to be space like that as Little Mac flies in not to mention how slow Side Smash is.

Falco's boxing game is often said to be good and while it won't beat Little Mac's, Falco has an edge on Fox who people have felt divided between Fox loses to Little Mac or Fox has an advantage on Little Mac. Why? Fox's moves tend to hit less hard than Falco and being slightly shorter - ironically, Fox and Little Mac are the same height - means Fox's range is slightly less than Falco at times. Oh, and Fox's edgeguarding game is not as good as Falco's. At the same time, Fox is just barely slower than Little Mac on the ground, Fox's aerials are good and used to combo people, and Fox doesn't get shut down by Little Mac. Personally, I think it's people relying on jab cancels with Fox too much when Little Mac and ZSS have the fastest jabs in the game. Same with Captain Falcon vs. Fox, but that's another story. Point is Falco being a fast and strong attacker outside of Side Smash and Dair, he can punish Little Mac mis-spacing his hits or being too predictable allowing Falco to just Ftilt, Dtilt, and if for some reason Little Mac goes behind him, Bair Little Mac.

Edit: Also, Falco's like the worst camper in this game because of how his Blaster works in Smash 4 and his slow mobility. Little Mac being the 3rd fastest runner doesn't help either and Jolt Haymaker was designed to go over projectiles which if Little Mac spaces it right and catches Falco during another shot or end lag, it's not going to be fun.

 

[Attila_]

No

No no no

This mu is firmly in little mac's favor

If he stands there we literally have no safe poking tools

Like, 0 poking tools

Most Little Macs are bad and dash too much, we rely on them to do this so we can punish

His neutral game just completely dominates ours

 

[pbjezgoud]

No

No no no

This mu is firmly in little mac's favor

If he stands there we literally have no safe poking tools

Like, 0 poking tools

Most Little Macs are bad and dash too much, we rely on them to do this so we can punish

His neutral game just completely dominates ours

I agree with this post.

We can shoot our slow lazers, which are easily stopped by a well timed shield.

We literally have to rely on bad Little Macs who like to approach. In that case catch him in the air with a shield grab and go to town with edge guard.

If he's patient, though, Falco will greatly struggle. Sadly...

The best way to fight a patient Little Mac is to be EXTREMELY defensive. It's hard to punish a skilled Mac, but if you can, take FULL advantage. And get him to the ledge.

 

[A2ZOMG]

No

No no no

This mu is firmly in little mac's favor

If he stands there we literally have no safe poking tools

Like, 0 poking tools

Most Little Macs are bad and dash too much, we rely on them to do this so we can punish

His neutral game just completely dominates ours

Mac doesn't have any safe poking tools in this matchup either. Falco can VERY consistently punish almost anything Mac does on block in this matchup due to his range on grounded moves, and Falco has the advantage of a superior grab game.

I fail to see how this matchup is "firmly in little mac's favor" unless you just fail at reaction punishing things on block. Mac's grab game is also nowhere near a big enough threat to make this a non-issue for him.

 

[Attila_]

Mac doesn't have any safe poking tools in this matchup either. Falco can VERY consistently punish almost anything Mac does on block in this matchup due to his range on grounded moves, and Falco has the advantage of a superior grab game.

I fail to see how this matchup is "firmly in little mac's favor" unless you just fail at reaction punishing things on block. Mac's grab game is also nowhere near a big enough threat to make this a non-issue for him.

Mac's ftilt, dtilt, utilt and dsmash are all safe on shield. Reaction has nothing to do with this. Mac's perfect pivot also allows him to space with these moves perfectly also, provided the player is skilled enough.

Falco's dash speed is also too slow to punish Mac's amazing retreating roll, allowing Mac to get away from pressure easy.

Jab is one frame and can punish even the slightest gap in pressure.

Mac has no grab game, but he doesn't really need it. He can space around our moves and respond, or shield drop and punish with his amazing fast tilts.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mac's ftilt, dtilt, utilt and dsmash are all safe on shield. Reaction has nothing to do with this. Mac's perfect pivot also allows him to space with these moves perfectly also, provided the player is skilled enough.

Falco's dash speed is also too slow to punish Mac's amazing retreating roll, allowing Mac to get away from pressure easy.

Jab is one frame and can punish even the slightest gap in pressure.

Mac has no grab game, but he doesn't really need it. He can space around our moves and respond, or shield drop and punish with his amazing fast tilts.

Your post is kinda hilariously disconnected from how this game actually works. Falco can punish basically everything with DA and Jab out of shield. You are downplaying just how good Falco's oos game is extremely heavily. All Smashes can be either DAed or dashgrabbed generally speaking. Seriously how do you just casually ignore this?

Don't remember if the Mac boards have comprehensive frame data but to make a long story short, I seriously don't think you know what you're talking about. Even Mac's tilts are not hard to reaction punish with Jab oos, and you not knowing this is frankly embarassing. Only if Mac is 110% perfectly spaced then maybe he can magically outspace Falco's giant normals on shield, but you have no reason to be baited if you confirm that specific spacing, and Mac's grab game sucks meaning you don't risk too much shielding.

 

[Attila_]

Your post is kinda hilariously disconnected from how this game actually works. Falco can punish basically everything with DA and Jab out of shield. You are downplaying just how good Falco's oos game is extremely heavily. All Smashes can be either DAed or dashgrabbed generally speaking. Seriously how do you just casually ignore this?

Don't remember if the Mac boards have comprehensive frame data but to make a long story short, I seriously don't think you know what you're talking about. Even Mac's tilts are not hard to reaction punish with Jab oos, and you not knowing this is frankly embarassing. Only if Mac is 110% perfectly spaced then maybe he can magically outspace Falco's giant normals on shield, but you have no reason to be baited if you confirm that specific spacing, and Mac's grab game sucks meaning you don't risk too much shielding.

If you haven't looked at frame data, you probably shouldn't comment on it.

Little Mac's complete frame data can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=2083239375

Little Mac's ftilt is -15 after shield drop. Assuming you wanted to use your fastest punish from a distance (dash attack), that still required you to close the gap in 7 frames. With falco's dash speed, that really isn't happening at any type of spacing. In theory you could double power shield the two hits of ftilt to punish it, but that's way to hard at this stage of the meta.

The top of my PR is a Little Mac who is incredibly patient, and has mastered perfect pivots completely. I don't think many other players have access to practice like him. If you only play Mac's who throw out smashes in neutral, you aren't really able to criticize the advice of someone experiencing the mu at a high level.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you haven't looked at frame data, you probably shouldn't comment on it.

Little Mac's complete frame data can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=2083239375

Little Mac's ftilt is -15 after shield drop. Assuming you wanted to use your fastest punish from a distance (dash attack), that still required you to close the gap in 7 frames. With falco's dash speed, that really isn't happening at any type of spacing. In theory you could double power shield the two hits of ftilt to punish it, but that's way to hard at this stage of the meta.

The top of my PR is a Little Mac who is incredibly patient, and has mastered perfect pivots completely. I don't think many other players have access to practice like him. If you only play Mac's who throw out smashes in neutral, you aren't really able to criticize the advice of someone experiencing the mu at a high level.

I remember frame data numbers being thrown around in competitive discussion for Mac early in the meta, and they definitely didn't imply he was that safe on block. I appreciate that you linked this.

Mac leans forward a TON on F-tilt. You can just drop shield Jab most of the time to punish as long as your timing is good.

Also you should keep in mind, Falco has one of the best initial dashes in this game and above average traction. His moveset and physics are AMAZINGLY GOOD for punishing Mac on block consistently. And you're probably just getting outplayed heavily by the top of your PR.

Seriously I don't think you know what you're talking about. If you were on the same level as the top of your PR, you would perfect pivot D-smash Mac after every F-tilt in theory. But clearly you're not even good enough to properly reaction punish with simpler things.

 

[Ffamran]

I remember frame data numbers being thrown around in competitive discussion for Mac early in the meta, and they definitely didn't imply he was that safe on block. I appreciate that you linked this.

There is a frame advantage calculator, but I don't know how to read frame advantage stuff, so yeah...

Mac leans forward a TON on F-tilt. You can just drop shield Jab most of the time to punish as long as your timing is good.

He's doing a really common boxing thing of jab and straight all while moving forward. He doesn't lean forward more so that he steps forward while punching which yes, does extend his hurtbox since he's punching forward, but he's also moving forward. Not a lot of Ftilts do this and there's only 1 Dtilt I know that involves moving forward, Triple D's.

 

[Attila_]

I remember frame data numbers being thrown around in competitive discussion for Mac early in the meta, and they definitely didn't imply he was that safe on block. I appreciate that you linked this.

Mac leans forward a TON on F-tilt. You can just drop shield Jab most of the time to punish as long as your timing is good.

Also you should keep in mind, Falco has one of the best initial dashes in this game and above average traction. His moveset and physics are AMAZINGLY GOOD for punishing Mac on block consistently. And you're probably just getting outplayed heavily by the top of your PR.

Seriously I don't think you know what you're talking about. If you were on the same level as the top of your PR, you would perfect pivot D-smash Mac after every F-tilt in theory. But clearly you're not even good enough to properly reaction punish with simpler things.

Aaaaand it's still not punishable.

I don't intend to turn this into a **** measuring contest, but I have no doubt I'm one of the more qualified players posting in these threads.

You're entitled to your opinion, but my opinion wins tournaments. Listening might help you improve.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I know your results. I'm just more or less astounded at how little you seem to know about the game, and how terrible your advice is. You cite an EXTREME case scenario that demands the Falco player literally doing nothing as reason why Falco supposedly has problems in the matchup. What the **** man?

And clearly you're nowhere near the level as the top of your PR, so...

 

[Attila_]

I know your results. I'm just more or less astounded at how little you seem to know about the game, and how terrible your advice is. You cite an EXTREME case scenario that demands the Falco player literally doing nothing as reason why Falco supposedly has problems in the matchup. What the **** man?

And clearly you're nowhere near the level as the top of your PR, so...

Not sure what the bolded text means.

Aaaaaaaand Mac's tilts are still safe.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Not sure what the bolded text means.

Aaaaaaaand Mac's tilts are still safe.

Mac's tilts are not safe UNLESS he's magically spaced at absolute maximum range, which you shouldn't let happen if you're just simply...using basic movements. You have to be literally just sitting completely still for Mac to get away with perfect spacing, and if he's anything but 110% perfectly spaced, he's not safe on block (for that matter he can also be whiff punished too). If your resident Mac player is so good that he's literally getting away with spaced tilts that are out of Falco's massive out of shield punish range, he's probably a much better player fundamentally than you.

His safest tilt is D-tilt, and even that can most definitely be Jabbed out of shield. F-tilt and U-tilt are noticeably less safe than that.

Frame data, Falco's good traction and initial dash, and massive range prove you wrong (and seriously just go test stuff at home and see for yourself). Get better. I'm not a great player, but I know from personal experience that even not poorly spaced tilts from Mac can definitely be punished by Falco either with minor reads or good reactions. How the hell do you just spout information that's just completely, utterly, false?

 

[Attila_]

Mac's tilts are not safe UNLESS he's magically spaced at absolute maximum range, which you shouldn't let happen if you're just simply...using basic movements. You have to be literally just sitting completely still for Mac to get away with perfect spacing, and if he's anything but 110% perfectly spaced, he's not safe on block (for that matter he can also be whiff punished too). If your resident Mac player is so good that he's literally getting away with spaced tilts that are out of Falco's massive out of shield punish range, he's probably a much better player fundamentally than you.

His safest tilt is D-tilt, and even that can most definitely be Jabbed out of shield. F-tilt and U-tilt are noticeably less safe than that.

Frame data, Falco's good traction and initial dash, and massive range prove you wrong (and seriously just go test stuff at home and see for yourself). Get better. I'm not a great player, but I know from personal experience that even not poorly spaced tilts from Mac can definitely be punished by Falco either with minor reads or good reactions. How the hell do you just spout information that's just completely, utterly, false?

*Sigh*

The whole interaction is the epitome of why good players don't bother posting. Lesser players just argue and personal attack, instead of acknowledging that maybe the good player is good because they actually know something.

Unless someone else with some intelligence contributes to this thread, I can't see any purpose in sticking around longer.

Continue beating noobs on 'For Glory', my friend.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm not denying you have results. Your advice however is completely terrible and has clear, practical, logical flaws. You could for instance argue where reaction windows are impractical, but you never bothered. The numbers and stats prove that what you are saying however is nonsense unless you have very strong evidence that Mac has good reaction window mixups.

Being a good player doesn't mean you necessarily know what's going on. It only means first and foremost you have good reactions and mechanics (see Boss play Mario/Luigi/Doc in all the Smash games he plays and then compare his forum posts). And I hate people that can't explain **** because you're just contributing really bad information that doesn't actually help anyone learn useful strategies.

Finally, there are plenty of good players that are good at explaining matchups in detail. You evidently aren't one of them.