Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion 15 - ROB - Priority One!

[Ffamran]

Welcome to the ROB matchup discussion.

All credit goes to Quas-quas for the original images.​

Here's a link to the main post: SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion - Main Post. This will be more for general matchup discussions like making a suggestion and such. Or, you could head over to the social thread and ask there: Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!. Or PM me if you really have to, but don't make a habit out of it.

Oh, and if you guys and girls want to play each other to have fun or learn about the MU, check out the NNID and FC sharing thread on the Falco boards: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

There's also the regular NNID and FC sharing threads in the Online discussion if you just want to ask anyone to play.

Notice: Some rules, guidelines, and tips. Some of these are a given since you joined any forum.

1. Be respectful of each other. No insults, no trolling, no flaming, or any of that nonsense.
2. Be aware that some of the discussions can and will be old, so don't call out someone for "wrong" data if that post was referring to say, patch 1.0.3 stuff.
3. Be impartial; learn to see things from other sides. So, don't boast about all the advantages. Notice weaknesses and strengths from both parties.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Have fun.

And here is a frame speed ranking of their regular attacks and grabs - no Specials yet, sorry - to clear up on things since sometimes a move may feel slow, but it's actually fast and vice versa. Plus more information doesn't always hurt. Data from List of attacks/grabs from fastest initial frame to slowest (Frame Speed) and the Complete Hitbox/Frame Data For Every Character threads.

As of patch 1.1.4.

Move Hit Frames||
Jab|2-4, 10-12, 17-21, 22-26, 27-31, 32-36, (infinite), 41-42|3-4, 12-13
Dash Attack|8-11 or 12-19|7-8
Ftilt|6-8|7-9
Utilt|5-9, 12-16|4-5 or 6-7
Dtilt|7-9|3-3
Side Smash|17-19 or 20-20|16-17
Up Smash|7-12, 13-20|10-11, 14-18
Down Smash|7-9|7-14, 16-16
Nair|3-5, 6-9, 14-17, 21-24|18-32
Fair|10-13, 14-17, 18-21, 22-25, 26-27, 28-29|6-7
Bair|4-5 or 6-12|19-23 or 24-29
Uair|7-11|26-26
Dair|16-19 or 20-31|20-21 (ground target) or 20-26 (aerial target) or 22-26
Grab|8-9|7-8
Dash Grab|10-11|9-10
Pivot Grab|11-12|11-12

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco's favor imo. Falco's reflector and superior ground moves are really huge in this matchup. Both of them suck at getting out of juggles and can edgeguard each other, but Falco's midrange options and higher damage overall imo give him the edge.

 

[Ffamran]

Huh, I didn't know you played ROB. Anyway, Falco should definitely stay the frick away from being under ROB; ROB's Dair hitbox is insane.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Yeah it is, he has one of the easiest to hit dairs in the game imo.

Anyway, ROB's zoning is pretty weak. Outside of his laser he has no real long-range projectiles, and the top can be reflected on the ground and the air and can only go to a mid range unless the ROB jumps high into the air and it's too obvious when you go that high.

Falco can force ROB to approach, which is pretty major for this match-up.

 

[Ffamran]

Whoops, I forgot to tag @ Blue Ninjakoopa who wanted to discuss about Falco vs. ROB.

Anyway, taking into consideration of customs, how do you all think this would work. I don't know ROB's customs, but for Falco, Burst Blaster might not be worth it since Falco would lose the ability to interrupt ROB's actions while Explosive Blaster might work as a way to gimp ROB since if ROB is running Robo Burner, his default Up Special, then Falco could continually burn out ROB's fuel with Explosive Blaster, Fair, Uair, and Nair to force ROB to constantly try to go back to ledge. Falco Phantasm and Phase would be more play style dependent along with the Fire Bird options. As for Reflector customs, Accele-Reflector might be useful against a Robo Beam-happy ROB, while Void Reflector will negate ROB's energy-based Robo Beam and reflect Gyro because it's physical. It's not a bad trade off for the ability to kill afar in the air and for knockback.

I don't fight ROBs a lot, so there's not much I can say.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Always wanted to say this...

"Location confirmed. Sending supplies matchup knowledge."​

I think I'm the only R.O.B. player that has experience with competent Falco players. I tried discussing this MU in the Skype group but the only characters the other players seem to respect/fear are Villager, Mario, Diddy Kong, and Sheik, assuming that Falco is "free". Most did however admit to not fighting many Falco's (including ~0 actually competent Falcos) and thus couldn't properly assess the matchup.

I agree that Falco wins this MU. In my opinion it's 55/45:

Falco more easily combos R.O.B. than most other characters. R.O.B.'s inability to land without retreating in congruence with his large hurtbox makes him susceptible to KOs from Falco's RAR'd or SH'd b-airs. Per the frame data provided above (and my experience with good Falco players on FG), Falco just about covers everything R.O.B. can throw at him, including d-tilt, which is beaten speed-wise by jab. Additionally the reflector shuts down R.O.B.'s means of getting in on Falco, and it does so better than any other reflector in the game. R.O.B.'s poor mobility and range mean he can't easily capitalize on baiting the move (he has the same problem with Palutena). To properly punish it R.O.B. has to be very close to Falco, which is where Falco outplays him.

Falco's falling speed makes him more susceptible to R.O.B.'s u-air out of down throw, and R.O.B.'s d-air is trouble some for both of Falco's methods of recovering, but Falco's overall better aerial arsenal allows him to similarly gimp R.O.B.

Basically, Falco is capable of keeping R.O.B. away and beating him up in close quarters. R.O.B. is essentially forced to play in a careful punish style, which doesn't bode well due to R.O.B. having poor damage output. Falco's mobility is lackluster, so his chasing/escaping option is limited to Phantasm, which R.O.B. can punish if it's timed poorly.

Off-stage is like the fight in Star Fox 64 with Spyborg, the boss of Sector X (who was actually named and possibly modeled after R.O.B.). One of Spyborg's attacks involved him flailing his arms, and R.O.B.'s f-air parallels that attack. R.O.B.'s f-air is dangerous to a Falco recovering from below due to how quickly it's executed (which makes it all the more difficult to tech). B-air is similarly dangerous. However, Falco's b-air and f-air are equally lethal, with the former being a quick move that can KO even without stage-spiking and the latter having a lasting hitbox that's difficult for a character with R.O.B.'s recovery to avoid.

Edge trapping is another area in which I feel R.O.B. is slightly disadvantaged. Gyro can be waited out or reflected, unfortunately. The reward R.O.B. gets from reading a getup option is good (especially with the favorable angle of d-smash), but Falco can force R.O.B. to recover high by ledge trumping him (if R.O.B. chooses to regrab the ledge, he'll eat a d-smash), and if and when R.O.B. chooses that option he'll eat a b-air or an f-smash. Fox can do similar edge traps.

The MU is similar with customs. Falco definitely benefits from his wholly invincible Falco Phase (Side B 2) and his faster and aptly titled Fast Fire Bird (Up B 2) because they make it more difficult for R.O.B. to gimp him, but at the same time Falco suffers a bit because he can't go as deep as normally for b-air/f-air finishers/gimps. Void and Accelereflector are also dangerous but slightly easier for R.O.B. to punish than the normal reflector. Void is probably the best option since it can still turn any of R.O.B.'s Gyros against him, meaning Fire and Slip Gyro are out of the question since their effects when turned against R.O.B. are devastating. In addition to being able to gimp, Charged Blaster I think has KO setup potential if positioned correctly (if fired past the opponent the blast will knock him or her towards Falco), but the regular blaster is fine for forcing approaches and interrupting R.O.B.'s attacks (Arm Rotor is often too slow to catch it). Reflector Arm is good for dealing with lasers but R.O.B.'s side B 1 is better as an anti-air move, and R.O.B. desperately needs the damage deals. Like Falco, R.O.B.'s up B custom (#2) helps him escape edgeguards and juggles more easily. R.O.B. still has the problem of being outclassed by Falco on the ground and having his tools nullified by Falco's reflector in the end, though.

 

[FalKoopa]

I hope I'm not late on this.

Anyway, I haven't played a lot of Falco's, but I can say for sure it's an uphill battle for ROB. 60:40 in Falco's favour, easily.

Pros:

• Falco's lasers are far better for pressuring and forcing approaches compared to laser or gyro.
• Laser has a bit of a start-up lag, which makes reflecting it even easier.
• ROB primarily uses Gyro for stage control, which is necessary to prevent Falco from rushing in for a grab or such, but it can be reflected.
• The Arm rotor can catch an opponent unaware, but if missing will get him punished, because it has a lot of ending lag. Falco is overall much more mobile than ROB both in the air and the ground.
• ROB's aerials are laggy. To land SH aerials he pretty much has to read the opponent.

Cons

• Falco has very fast fall speed which makes it easier to land a D-throw -> U-air for ROB

Well, this is all I know.