Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[topspin1617]

So I just ran into a Sonic online that I could barely touch. The player was good, but I was almost always able to win every match where he picked a different character.

I main Peach, and tried hovering and trying to counter the spin dashes with either dair if he stays grounded or fair if he jumps, but it's almost impossible to react fast enough to actually implement that plan. Sonic was just far too mobile.

I tried a couple other characters but didn't make any progress. I was going to try Shiek but he left before I could.

I'll note that I think the best thing to do would be to pick a stage like Battlefield, but obviously that's not an option in For Glory.

 

[LEGOfan12]

Try to block his Spin-Dashes.

 

[Chainsaw114]

I am a Meta Knight main, a character who's entire moveset (seemingly to me) is based around punishing people during the lag in their moves. Sonic barely has any lag for any of his moves with the exception of Dsmash and dash attack (from what I've seen). Also, while I shield his spindash most Sonics just UpB away and its impossible for me to get a good attack in with the fact that his Dair has no lag upon landing from high up.

I do not believe that Sonic is necessarily OP, but from what I have read on the forum the only way to beat Sonic is to zone him out with projectiles. MetaKnight's low priority, low range, and massive punishability mean I am instantly bodied against Sonics. Should I just switch characters? My other main is Palutena, which is another horrible matchup. I have done well against some Sonics as Little Mac though.

 

[Redline!]

I am a Meta Knight main, a character who's entire moveset (seemingly to me) is based around punishing people during the lag in their moves. Sonic barely has any lag for any of his moves with the exception of Dsmash and dash attack (from what I've seen). Also, while I shield his spindash most Sonics just UpB away and its impossible for me to get a good attack in with the fact that his Dair has no lag upon landing from high up.

I do not believe that Sonic is necessarily OP, but from what I have read on the forum the only way to beat Sonic is to zone him out with projectiles. MetaKnight's low priority, low range, and massive punishability mean I am instantly bodied against Sonics. Should I just switch characters? My other main is Palutena, which is another horrible matchup. I have done well against some Sonics as Little Mac though.

Metaknight, Palutena (with defaults), and Little Mac (no air game) are all dreadful matchups against Sonic and there's not much you can do about it.

 

[Narth]

I'm just getting into Sonic, and I can use the Side-B with the Uair combo, but I've been wondering if there are any other uses for it and for the Down-B... what can I do with the Down-B I can't do with the Side-B (and vice-versa)?

Any suggestions would be appreciated! :3

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just getting into Sonic, and I can use the Side-B with the Uair combo, but I've been wondering if there are any other uses for it and for the Down-B... what can I do with the Down-B I can't do with the Side-B (and vice-versa)?

Any suggestions would be appreciated! :3

You can shield cancel the side b before its fully charged for mind games, dash->side b->shield>grab is less laggy than normal dash grab and covers more distance than dash > shield >grab but only dash grab is really worth using, you can jump during side b's charge but can't release the attack so its pretty useless besides jumping over laggy projectiles. Down B is better in the air in my experience. You can also get Fairs out of spin dash, and sometimes Bairs if you wait long enough to move past them and the opponent falls for the trap. Side B->shield grab can get people like Falcon who use specials that send them forward that beat spin dash but not shield.

 

[Kinzer]

Metaknight, Palutena (with defaults), and Little Mac (no air game) are all dreadful matchups against Sonic and there's not much you can do about it.

If all you do is accept it as fact, then sure.

On the other hand:

I am a Meta Knight main, a character who's entire moveset (seemingly to me) is based around punishing people during the lag in their moves. Sonic barely has any lag for any of his moves with the exception of Dsmash and dash attack (from what I've seen). Also, while I shield his spindash most Sonics just UpB away and its impossible for me to get a good attack in with the fact that his Dair has no lag upon landing from high up.

I do not believe that Sonic is necessarily OP, but from what I have read on the forum the only way to beat Sonic is to zone him out with projectiles. MetaKnight's low priority, low range, and massive punishability mean I am instantly bodied against Sonics. Should I just switch characters? My other main is Palutena, which is another horrible matchup. I have done well against some Sonics as Little Mac though.

If you knew that he was going to Dair, why didn't you prep up a quick punish? It may be lagless if done at the right height; but. the fact remains: he still only has one way to go when he commits to the move.

Also, that Sonic is bad if his go-to after a Spin Jump was up-b. That severely limits his options upon landing and is usually used only after the opponent has adapted to every other option out of a Spin Jump. I don't see what's stopping you (as MK) from using Tornado to cover any other landing option since Dair after a certain while becomes unreliable with it's very laggy landing should it not be auto-canceled.

But if you want to switch characters, go ahead. Perhaps you'd have better success. But more than not, it's a simple matter if finding the player's habits. Few, if any, of Sonic's options are 100% foolproof. It just seems like that because he has a literal ton of different options he can use at any given time to keep people guessing and on their feet. If you notice something that the player him/herself is using more than not, you can take advantage of it.

 

[Swiffy22]

I apologize if this has already been mentioned. I've been trying to take up Sonic as a main, and using this guide, as well as the others here, to help me along my way. It feels like I've improved pretty quickly, so I've started trying some of the ATs and seeing what interesting stuff I could find. I was messing around with SD cancelling, and found a way to increase the length of a "Shield Slide" out of a dash!

Dash (For at least one full step) > Tap B while holding the same direction > Hold shield

Sonic will do a short roll before shielding, which increases the length of the slide by about 1/3. If you tap B and shield at the initial part of your dash animation, you stop entirely. If you hold B long enough to start charging the SD and then shield, you cancel all momentum as well.

Again, sorry if it was mentioned, but I didn't notice it mentioned anywhere. With such simple inputs, it has most likely already been found, but I wanted to throw the info down here just in case.

 

[Camalange]

I apologize if this has already been mentioned. I've been trying to take up Sonic as a main, and using this guide, as well as the others here, to help me along my way. It feels like I've improved pretty quickly, so I've started trying some of the ATs and seeing what interesting stuff I could find.

Thanks! That's great to hear. Glad it's been helpful.

I was messing around with SD cancelling, and found a way to increase the length of a "Shield Slide" out of a dash!

Yes, we do list it. Perhaps the wording isn't clear enough, but under the question about Side-B Shield Canceling, I list possible uses for it, including that one.

You can also feel free to inform us if certain things aren't clear enough, are too word-y, etc. Always trying to improve and make it more accessible to newcomers.

Again, sorry if it was mentioned, but I didn't notice it mentioned anywhere. With such simple inputs, it has most likely already been found, but I wanted to throw the info down here just in case.

Not a problem, and thanks for asking it here! It's always appreciated when I don't have to move new threads to existing ones, which is particularly rare of a user who has just joined and made their first post.

Welcome to the boards, and feel free to ask any more questions you may have after viewing our threads, as well as critique to help us strengthen them.

 

[Reksho]

When watching high level Sonic players, they always seem to jump, start a spin attack and cancel it by jumping a great horizontal distance. I assume this is the spinshot from the first post? If so, I tried to do this multiple times but I just can't get the input right. Any tips for it (like visual/audio/timing cues i have to look out for)?

 

[Gregory2590]

Coming from someone who can't do the grounded version to save his life, the easiest way I do it is jump, spin charge(one spin), then cstick down. I didn't try this on other controllers.

 

[Camalange]

When watching high level Sonic players, they always seem to jump, start a spin attack and cancel it by jumping a great horizontal distance.

That does indeed sound like a spinshot.

I assume this is the spinshot from the first post? If so, I tried to do this multiple times but I just can't get the input right. Any tips for it (like visual/audio/timing cues i have to look out for)?

imo, the easiest way to practice is to do the following.

Start with a grounded Spinshot out of Side-B. Let it reach full charge. Then release B and immediately flick down on the C-stick (I think you can hit up too and you can also hit A instead, but I found that moving my thumb from B to the bottom of C-stick is the easiest/most natural way).

Once you understand the timing on the release and the flick, you can practice it out of a lesser charge, and then from the air. For Down-B, you can only do it in the air, and it requires only a couple mashes of B before flicking.

 

[Reksho]

Alright, I'll try it out. Thanks both of you!

 

[Funkermonster]

Is spinshotting doable on the with u gamepad? I ask so since I have no better controller to use now. Also, how to do a vertical spindash jump?

 

[Camalange]

Is spinshotting doable on the with u gamepad? I ask so since I have no better controller to use now.

I'd imagine so. The easiest thing I'd recommend is setting the second joystick to be a c-stick and doing the same inputs you'd do with a Gamecube controller but with the mapping of a gamepad.

Also, how to do a vertical spindash jump?

Oh, a VSDJ is just our fancy term for doing a SDJ in place.

Like, while you're charging a Spin Charge or Spin Dash, just don't release B and press A. You'll do a SDJ going vertically with hitboxes and all that.

 

[kataridragon]

So anybody here think perfect pivot is that great? I can see some use for it with some characters.

Generally or sonic specific. I only trust Sonic Mainz. <_<

 

[Zoidberg747]

What are Sonic's best tools for edge guarding? Ive been using bair and nair for the most part, but feel like there must be better options(or at least different ones).

 

[Camalange]

So anybody here think perfect pivot is that great? I can see some use for it with some characters.

Generally or sonic specific. I only trust Sonic Mainz. <_<

I'm not sure how greatly it will affect Sonic as his mobility is great, but I suppose it won't hurt to practice and experiment with it. There's a lot of hype around it right now but... I'm not seeing it used in top play yet either. I think it has interesting utility for sure though. It's just awkward to do.

What are Sonic's best tools for edge guarding? Ive been using bair and nair for the most part, but feel like there must be better options(or at least different ones).

Dropping springs is good too.

Dair spike is alright.

 

[Reksho]

Dair spike is alright.

Though I find it extremely unreliable. I mostly use it as a mix-up to rack up extra damage as the spike is difficult to hit with. That and SD'ing because your jump wasn't high enough is not fun.

 

[Camalange]

Though I find it extremely unreliable. I mostly use it as a mix-up to rack up extra damage as the spike is difficult to hit with. That and SD'ing because your jump wasn't high enough is not fun.

Yeah. That's why I only said it's "alright". Decent option if you use it sparingly to catch off-guard.

Although you should be knowing not to Dair at certain heights.

 

[BlackPhantom]

I need help timing sonic's spinshot. I can do it, but not consistently. Please reply with the easiest way you do it.

 

[GTL WhiteBlur]

How does it work? It seems to have a really weird sweetspot, and I've only ever done it twice. Is it one of those ridiculously rare moves?

Edit: In reference to the dair spike. - @ Camalange

 

[Camalange]

I need help timing sonic's spinshot. I can do it, but not consistently. Please reply with the easiest way you do it.

Please refer to the OP, or the personal breakdown I wrote earlier on this page.

How does it work? It seems to have a really weird sweetspot, and I've only ever done it twice. Is it one of those ridiculously rare moves?

Edit: In reference to the dair spike. - @ Camalange

@Anthinus did a solid breakdown in this video. Having a visual always helps.

 

[Empty Number]

Can someone please help me with the Sonic match-up? My salt is real. I just played what seems like a pro-level sonic named "Saiyan" or some-sort who could PP all over the place and knew seemingly every mix-up and AT Sonic has. Sonic is the only character that makes me rage quit.

I play mainly DK and Diddy, and I've lately been dabbling in Villager as well. I CANNOT figure out how to punish a Sonic. He has so many options at all stages of the match, and so many of those options have follow-up options that are completely safe for Sonic, allowing him to run away or DI out.

On top of this I feel like all of my traditional go-to methods against fast characters don't work against him. If a move has ANY ending lag I will get punished mainly due to Sonic's speed. Compounding this is the fact that I whiff many moves from not being able to accurately predict where he will be.

Could ANY of you please help me out with some stuff that works against you or characters you have trouble with? Maybe it's just my choice of characters, but I usually stay in matches with a good Sonic for at least 4-5 times, trying to figure something out. Usually I get nowhere. It's been 3 months since the 3DS release now, and it's starting to piss me off.

Thank you kindly.

 

[BlackPhantom]

@ Empty Number

Im a decent sonic main that knows about 90% of all the ATs (curse u spinshot) so the advice I can give u is probably limited and u have probably heard this before, but the best way heavyweights deal with sonic is to bait him into making mistakes and capitalize on them as much as u can. Then again, this is only coming from a 14 year old, it might not be the best option, but it works

P.S. If u want, u can play me on the 3ds version for practice. This will help me too because there arent too many good smashers in my city (But a city over I'll get crushed).

P.S.S Sayian is pretty good so don't be too disappointed.

 

[Opana]

How the hell can I deal with Sonic's burying side special custom as Ganondorf?

 

[Empty Number]

@ Empty Number

Im a decent sonic main that knows about 90% of all the ATs (curse u spinshot) so the advice I can give u is probably limited and u have probably heard this before, but the best way heavyweights deal with sonic is to bait him into making mistakes and capitalize on them as much as u can. Then again, this is only coming from a 14 year old, it might not be the best option, but it works

P.S. If u want, u can play me on the 3ds version for practice. This will help me too because there arent too many good smashers in my city (But a city over I'll get crushed).

P.S.S Sayian is pretty good so don't be too disappointed.

Thanks. I'd be open to that. The problem is it's really hard to recognize when Sonic is in a bad situation. I can't tell side-b from down-b, and I'm unsure of the difference and options available between them. Plus whenever Sonic jumps his hitbox becomes smaller. Ugh.

 

[BlackPhantom]

U know what would trash sonic in spindash (I think)? A grounded up b from Dk. Use it sparingly though because a mindful sonic player can just jump or spinshot over it. But i can't be helpful to u unless i know how u play (I dont have a general idea of how DKs play).

 

[BlackPhantom]

Also once u get ahold of sonic don't let him outspeed u because a good sonic is a fluid one

 

[Yunior597]

how the spring lag cancel actually works? sometimes i can get dair cancelled and sometimes doesnt when i hit the ground.

 

[Camalange]

how the spring lag cancel actually works? sometimes i can get dair cancelled and sometimes doesnt when i hit the ground.

It's not so much exactly a cancel as much as it is the move ending in time for there to be no lag upon landing.

You need to be at least a jump and spring height from the ground for the dair landing lag to be gone.

 

[Yunior597]

ok now, how i do the side b jump cancel on air? or whatever is called. the thing you side B and press attack buttom quick to make sonic jump farther

 

[Camalange]

ok now, how i do the side b jump cancel on air? or whatever is called. the thing you side B and press attack buttom quick to make sonic jump farther

Q: What exactly is a "Spinshot"?
A: Spinshot is an AT (Advanced Technique) that allows Sonic to jump through the air while retaining the momentum of his ground speed.

Q: How do I shot spin?
A: You can Spinshot from both Side-B and Down-B. Side-B's can be done both on the ground or in the air, but Down-B's can only be done in the air. Both require you inputting jump or attack at or past a certain point during their charge.

Recommended [only?] input(s):

• Air:

[Hold Side-B] or [Fully Charged Side-B] > [Release B and quickly hit A (Attack) or X/Y (Jump) or C-Stick] *
[Rapid-Fire Down-B] > [Release B and quickly hit A (Attack) or X/Y (Jump) or C-Stick] **

• Ground:

* Same
** N/A

 

[Smog Frog]

how often do you guys use hyphen smashes? i use it quite alot, but i'm wondering if its a good thing to be utilizing over something else.

 

[Camalange]

how often do you guys use hyphen smashes? i use it quite alot, but i'm wondering if its a good thing to be utilizing over something else.

I think hyphen smashing is a generally better alternative than a raw Usmash. Helps cover more ground without it being as stiff and telegraphed.

Outside of that, same application as just when I'd use a Usmash. Catch landings, platform pressure, etc.

 

[Kaii]

I would like to know good matchups against Sonic, anyone?

 

[Camalange]

I would like to know good matchups against Sonic, anyone?

Hey, you joined on my birthday. Neat.

I guess it depends on who you ask, but I'd say Sheik and Rosalina for sure.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

I would like to know good matchups against Sonic, anyone?

Sonic is combo bait to Sheik. People say Sheik can't kill but I beg to differ. She has multiple kill options available to her. Wario also destroys 90% of Sonic's approaches. He kills early with a few of his moves and has some nasty priority in the air. I have to say those are the two matches were Sonic has an uphill battle.

 

[kataridragon]

I would say sheik and wario as well.

Sheik can keep sonic from approaching with needles, she isn't very gimpable, and her attacks are quick with little lag. All of these undermine some of sonics stronger attributes.

Wario has high priority aerial moves that beat out sonic pretty easily. His bike and bite attacks prevent spins. His aerial mobility and recovery prevent gimps. Time is also an issue since it's a race against time to kill him before max fart which is problematic.

I'm sure I missed some things

Edit: My b-day is 10/24. We are birthday month bros Cam.

 

[BlackPhantom]

Mine is on the 3rd. So many people born in october