Something worth implementing. MU Chart Assist.

[Sage JoWii]

I could have partnered up with Kewkky to rickroll y'all. I could've.

BUT! This thread actually has merit.

Spoiler

Other than bragging about all the threads on the boards that are started by me.

As far as the match-up discussion (exporting, discussing, summarizing, link) I think we're doing an ok job. It's getting done and in a somewhat timely manner.

I feel though that it looks empty and blank; kinda uninformative. The reason I say this is because there are so many matchups that aren't done yet. If a beginner Kirby were to come in and wanna know whether he should fall back on his secondary

Spoiler

MK

for a matchup because it's a large disadvantage or disadvantage he wouldn't know which character because not all have ratings.

In order to help in that specific area I think it's worth everyone giving their opinions on EVERY matchup (that hasn't been discussed) so I can put 'preliminary ratings'. Of course when we run through the matchup export I'll adjust as we discuss but just to have something for people looking in real quick wanting a bit of info.

The way I want this done is to cut and past a copy of the character list from the MU discussion and write what YOU feel the rating for that matchup is (Large Disadvantage, Disadvantage, Slight Disadvantage, Even, Slight Advantage, Advantage, Large Advantage). and then post it.

REMEMBER: This is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Important note from J'Cide: Ya it's your opinion, so you better be ready to defend it. This is going into the Kirby board's MU thread which is stickied and HIGHLY important. This is a community opinion so if you think you're going to put something stupid like....MK is a large advantage I'm going to smack the spit out of your inhaling mouth verbally. Be smart and if you don't feel you know that Match-up well put a question mark like so: (?)

DISCUSS!

 

[Sage JoWii]

2.1. Disadvantage;
2.2. Disadvantage;
2.3. Slight Advantage;
2.4. Slight Disadvantage;
2.5. Even;
2.6. Even;
2.7 Disadvantage;
2.8 Advantage;
2.9 Large Disadvantage;
2.10 Slight Advantage;
2.11 Disadvantage;
2.12 Large Disadvantage;
2.13 Even;
2.14 Slight Disadvantage;
2.15 Even;
2.16 Even;
2.17 Slight Disadvantage;
2.18 Even;
2.19 Slight Advantage;
2.20 Even;
2.21 Slight Disadvantage;
2.22 Slight Advantage;
2.23 Slight Advantage;
2.24 Slight Disadvantage;
2.25 Slight Advantage;
2.26 Advantage;
2.27 :shiek: Large Advantage;
2.28 Advantage;
2.29 Even;
2.30 Large Advantage;
2.31 Large Advantage;
2.32 Even;
2.33 Slight Disvantage;
2.34 Slight Advantage;
2.35 Large Advantage;
2.36 Slight Disadvantage;
2.37 Advantage;

 

[Kewkky]

I could have partnered up with Kewkky to rickroll y'all. I could've.

I'm honored...! :blush:

BUT! This thread actually has merit.

Spoiler

Other than bragging about all the threads on the boards that are started by me.

As far as the match-up discussion (exporting, discussing, summarizing, link) I think we're doing an ok job. It's getting done and in a somewhat timely manner.

I feel though that it looks empty and blank; kinda uninformative. The reason I say this is because there are so many matchups that aren't done yet. If a beginner Kirby were to come in and wanna know whether he should fall back on his secondary

Spoiler

MK

for a matchup because it's a large disadvantage or disadvantage he wouldn't know which character because not all have ratings.

In order to help in that specific area I think it's worth everyone giving their opinions on EVERY matchup (that hasn't been discussed) so I can put 'preliminary ratings'. Of course when we run through the matchup export I'll adjust as we discuss but just to have something for people looking in real quick wanting a bit of info.

The way I want this done is to cut and past a copy of the character list from the MU discussion and write what YOU feel the rating for that matchup is (Large Disadvantage, Disadvantage, Slight Disadvantage, Even, Slight Advantage, Advantage, Large Advantage). and then post it.

REMEMBER: This is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Important note from J'Cide: Ya it's your opinion, so you better be ready to defend it. This is going into the Kirby board's MU thread which is stickied and HIGHLY important. This is a community opinion so if you think you're going to put something stupid like....MK is a large advantage I'm going to smack the spit out of your inhaling mouth verbally. Be smart and if you don't feel you know that Match-up well put a question mark like so: (?)

DISCUSS!

I did something like this before.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=254801


Take from the thread whatever you want, it got buried under all the newer topics but it still had (and still has) use! Don't know if you've seen it before.

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah, we already kinda did this... and nothing came of it. What was that 'project' you were working on at the time Kewk?

 

[Kewkky]

Yeah, we already kinda did this... and nothing came of it. What was that 'project' you were working on at the time Kewk?

At the time, the argument around the boards was about how unreliable matchup discussions are. Some people thought we had an advantage in a MU, others thought it was even, and the remaining few thought it was a disadvantage. Since matchup discussions took forever to get to the necessary conclusion that's needed to discuss matchups at the highest levels of play (MU discussions teach players how to play, but what I wanted was the outright advantage/even/disadvantage versus everyone in the cast, which is what the top players really look at), I took the time to collect everyone's opinions at the time.

The point of the small project was to have a foundation with which to back up my arguments whenever I brought up Kirby against the masses/top players, without sounding like the MUs are just from my biased point of view. If we took the time to ask every active Kirby mainer in the Kirby boards what their opinion on the MUs was, then came to a consensus by averaging out the opinions, we could get the advantage/even/disadvantage arguments out of the way, and finally take a look at what really are our MUs against the entire cast.

I actually used this a couple of times, and still do. I consider it valuable information, even though it's all just a collection of opinions... Which is why whenever MUs are brought up for any sort of discussion, I have the link somewhere where I can access it at all times. It's much better than what the majority of other boards do, which is have one representative mainer come forth and spew out his individual opinion on the MUs, even if he might be flawed people will take his word for it because he's the one speaking up. But when you take many people's opinions, you can get closer to the fact than how you would by voicing it by yourself.


And that was the purpose! Data collection... For use in debates, and for the viewing of the public to have a better understanding of where Kirby stands in the metagame.

 

[Sage JoWii]

>_> I didn't see that because it was buried under everything...

Well I'll leech everything from that and you could lock it? Or you can leave it up and we'll see what up a year later. Your call Kewkky.

 

[Kewkky]

>_> I didn't see that because it was buried under everything...

Well I'll leech everything from that and you could lock it? Or you can leave it up and we'll see what up a year later. Your call Kewkky.

Well, it WOULD be nice to update our opinions and stuff... I even wrote on my thread that I would update it every long while, so we could do it again. It's 5 months til the year's over, so as the OP who's in control of the idea, you be the judge of whether or not you want to redo it now, or redo it later on.

You can link my thread to your MU thread if you decide on doing it later, or if you decide on doing it now, link this thread instead and let's start with the inputs. Your call!

 

[fromundaman]

When I get time I'll post my opinions on the MUs I know well-ish (Oh, and on a semi-related note... none of that stuff you said for GRs on Lucas work except regrab and DA.)

 

[A1lion835]

I'll post my opinions too. It can't hurt, I guess, if the thread gets closed...

These are only the MUs I can back up with my opinions.

2.1. Disadvantage
2.2. Disadvantage
2.3. Even / Slight Disadvantage
2.4. Disadvantage
2.6. Even
2.7 Disadvantage
2.12 Disadvantage
2.14 Slight Disadvantage
2.15 Even
2.17 Slight Advantage
2.20 Slight disadvantage
2.22 Even / Slight Advantage
2.31 Large Advantage
2.34 Advantage
2.35 Large Advantage
2.37 Advantage

 

[BBQTV]

this is what i've been waiting for

 

[Kappy]

I'll post this again here with updated ratios!

Big Advantage (70-30)




Advantage (60-40)







:shiek:

Slight Advantage; Even; Slight Disadvantage (55-45;50-50;45-55)

(55-45)
(55-45)
(55-45)
(55-45)
(50-50)
(50-50)
(50-50)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45:55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)


Disadvantage (40-60)

 

[Sage JoWii]

We'll go ahead and keep this one going and just link the other. This thread shouldn't stay too active more than a month or after the regulars have posted because I just want it to complete my match-up chart.

Discuss!

 

[fromundaman]

I'll post my opinions too. It can't hurt, I guess, if the thread gets closed...

These are only the MUs I can back up with my opinions.

2.1. Disadvantage
2.2. Disadvantage
2.3. Even / Slight Disadvantage
2.4. Disadvantage
2.6. Even
2.7 Disadvantage
2.12 Large Disadvantage
2.14 Slight Disadvantage
2.15 Even
2.17 Slight Advantage
2.20 Slight disadvantage
2.22 Even / Slight Advantage
2.31 Large Advantage
2.34 Advantage
2.35 Large Advantage
2.37 Advantage

I don't have time to post all of mine here yet, but out of curiosity, why do you think G&W is worse than the others you listed?

 

[A1lion835]

I don't have time to post all of mine here yet, but out of curiosity, why do you think G&W is worse than the others you listed?

I don't O_o I guess I wasn't paying attention. He's only a disadvantage. Thanks for catching that!

*fixes*

 

[Triple R]

I'll try to have mine up later tonight.

 

[fromundaman]

Big Advantage (70-30)





Advantage (60-40)





Slight Advantage; Even; Slight Disadvantage (55-45;50-50;45-55)

(55-45 or 50-50)
(55-45)
(55-45)
(55-45)
(55-45)
(50-50)
(50-50)
(50-50)
(50-50)
(50-50)
(50-50)
(50-50)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(45-55)
(42-57 Snake is dumb)

Disadvantage (40-60)






Left those I felt too uninformed about to say out.

 

[Triple R]

Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Even
Slight Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Even
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Even
Even
Even
Even
Even
Even
Slight Advantage
Even
Even
:shiek: Slight Advantage
Slight Advantage
Even
Even
Slight Advantage
Slight Advantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Advantage

 

[Kewkky]

I'm taking into account that previously 55:45 MUs are "slight advantages on our favor, since we're slightly advantaged by 10 points total (we go up 5, they go down 5):

1.1. Disadvantage
2.2. Disadvantage
2.3. Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.4. Disadvantage
2.5. Even
2.6. Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.7 Large disadvantage
2.8 Even
2.9 Disadvantage
2.10 Slight disadvantage (unless 45:55 means even, then it's even)
2.11 Slight disadvantage (unless 45:55 means even, then it's even)
2.12 Disadvantage
2.13 Slight disadvantage (unless 45:55 means even, then it's even)
2.14 Even
2.15 earg5ytfeydsaowdpzIEWFAZ
2.16 Slight disadvantage (unless 45:55 means even, then it's even)
2.17 Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.18 Even
2.19 Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.20 Even
2.21 Even
2.22 Advantage
2.23 Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.24 Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.25 Even
2.26 Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.27 :shiek:Advantage
2.28 Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.29 Advantage
2.30 Advantage
2.31 Large advantage
2.32 Advantage
2.33 Advantage
2.34 Large advantage
2.35 Advantage
2.36 Slight advantage (unless 55:45 means even, then it's even)
2.37 Advantage

 

[Sir_J]

Kewkky, I think everything about yours, except for Toon Link. For some reason, he always seems to be able to spam me pretty well. I can't use a projectile, so I jump over them. He then throws in the air, and I just can't do anything. The Fist-to-Fist combat doesn't make up for it that much, just a little. I think he is 60-40.

 

[Kewkky]

Kewkky, I think everything about yours, except for Toon Link. For some reason, he always seems to be able to spam me pretty well. I can't use a projectile, so I jump over them. He then throws in the air, and I just can't do anything. The Fist-to-Fist combat doesn't make up for it that much, just a little. I think he is 60-40.

Oh, I have all the experience in the world for this one. It's nasty, but if you manage to get close, things can turn around. And he has some problems killing, whereas we don't (we can kill with bair, or gimp em, or MAYBE frametrap a dsmash or fsmash).

Anyway, our opinions differ for like 5 points. It just means that in my experiences I've had an easier time than you in your experiences, not that either of us is wrong. As long as we know it's not in Kirby's favor we're good.

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah, TL is annoying to fight, but once you get the hang of it, it doesn't feel too bad. Same with Lucario actually, though it took me forever to get the hang of that MU.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Kewkky , lock this thread plz. It's run it's usefulness out. The preliminary matchup ratios are up.