Smash 4 - Weight Rankings

[KuroganeHammer]

CHARACTER WEIGHT RANKINGS
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Weight
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[KuroganeHammer]

Reserved in case.

 

[Hokori]

Lol "Frog"

Welp, so far it's looking like my characters will be on the mid-heavy side with Shulk, Robin, and Ganondorf. Ganny may not be unlocked yet, but well...I can make a safe bet where he'll sit when everything is updated.

Thanks for this, btw!

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina second lightest? I REALLY don't really buy that.

Everyone I've seen talk about her weight has stated that she's around Samus' weight, and shares Samus' "heavy but floaty" gimmick. These are people who played a huge ton of matches as her (and compared her to other characters). And from footage I've watched, she survives getting hit really well. Survives past 200% even against the likes of Bowser, regularly.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Rosalina second lightest? I REALLY don't really buy that.

Everyone I've seen talk about her weight has stated that she's around Samus' weight, and shares Samus' "heavy but floaty" gimmick. These are people who played a huge ton of matches as her (and compared her to other characters). And from footage I've watched, she survives getting hit really well. Survives past 200% even against the likes of Bowser, regularly.

Probably not second lightest. G&W and Jiggs are probably lighter.

Other than that... Sorry that happened. She's one of the lightest characters in the game.

 

[pikafire]

Jigglypuff weighs 12 pounds, according to Serebii. and Pikachu is 13. So they're def close to the bottom

 

[Leonyx]

How did you test these weights?

 

[Reila]

Great thread! I thought Robin and Palutena would be considerably heavier.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Palutena lighter than Pit? Even I'm baffled about this. At least it's a small step up from Peach and Zelda, but I'm still surprised.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Great thread! I thought Robin and Palutena would be considerably heavier.

I thought Robin would be much lighter. I'm glad I was wrong to think that.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Thanks for this. Should really come in handy.

The most surprising ones for me are Rose being so low compared to the ones up their, as well as Villager being so heavy.

They grow em big in AC o.o

 

[Xeiros]

Where exactly are you getting this information? Well right now it's literately just a list of character's names with nothing to back it up or give it context, but I'm assuming you're going to add their weight values at some point. Are they outright stated in game somewhere? Did you data mine it?

Provide your citations. Give us your sources because right now there's nothing to support anything you've said. If you did hard testing in training mode or something, provide the evidence. If you found the actual data values in game, show them to us so we can trust this as legitimate.

You're making a statement. Support it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I did it in training mode.

I'll have the data values up as soon as I finish getting everyone I guess.

 

[Starbound]

Who's Frog supposed to be?

 

[Pazzo.]

Who's Frog supposed to be?

Greninja.

Glad to see that Mega Man is pretty heavy.

 

[Tristan_win]

Thank you for your deduction but if you don't mind me asking how did you organize this list?

edit: Ahh, training mode, well if that's the case could you test one of your percentages and see if they kill at the same percentage in VS?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

kill percentages are a terrible way to judge a true weight list since fall speed does play a part in determining momentum cancelling

I've almost unlocked everyone but G&W, will start again soon

 

[Tristan_win]

kill percentages are a terrible way to judge a true weight list since fall speed does play a part in determining momentum cancelling

I've almost unlocked everyone but jiggs, will start again soon

I agree but with it being this early in the meta having even a general sense of weight is fantastic.

On another note it looks like the weights have stayed mostly the same when compared to the rest of the cast.

5) Samus (gain weight)
6) Ike (gain weight)
7-9) Yoshi (lost weight?)
12) Lucario (gain weight)
13) Mario (gain weight)
19-21) Sonic (gain weight?)
27) Marth (Gain weight)
28) Peach (Lost weight?)
34) Meta Knight (Meta knight gain weight but more so then fox and pikachu)
35-37) Pikachu (Also grain weight)
35-37) Fox (Fox gain weight)
35-37) Olimar (Lost a lot of weight as he use to weigh more then Pikachu)
38) Rosalina
39) Kirby

edit: I was lazy and just use my charts and didn't use raw weight so I might be a bit wrong.

 

[staindgrey]

Probably not second lightest. G&W and Jiggs are probably lighter.

Other than that... Sorry that happened. She's one of the lightest characters in the game.

I find that extremely odd, considering Rosalina is in a heavier weight class in the Mario Kart games than Peach, Mario, Luigi and Yoshi. If anything, she should be heavier than all of them.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

please frondz, i am putting weight numbers in a table now, some I'm not sure what their weights are but I can pinpoint round about what they are (like Kirby)

Plus I havent done some like Bowser jr etc

I find that extremely odd, considering Rosalina is in a heavier weight class in the Mario Kart games than Peach, Mario, Luigi and Yoshi. If anything, she should be heavier than all of them.

Yeah I suppose they decided to make a conscious balance decision

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ok, just an update.

It's done, finally for the most part.

I want to mention some things:

1) I will be including weight modifiers at a later date. This includes Palutena's Lightweight and possibly Shulk's stances if I can think of a way to bypass the damage reduction on it.

2) Mii Fighters aren't here. I have no idea where they'll rank, but in the future I will do a minimum, maximum and average weight Mii Fighter entry.

3) I'm moving this to 3DS competitive discussion soon/later.

Thanks for reading everyone!

 

[DougX]

So Luigi is still the same weight as he was in Brawl. Not so bad. Not too overly heavy, not too overly light. Robin isn't so light or heavy either... Nice for me too.

And you're welcome. I appreciate learning stuff. c:

 

[Ffamran]

Rosalina second lightest? I REALLY don't really buy that.

Everyone I've seen talk about her weight has stated that she's around Samus' weight, and shares Samus' "heavy but floaty" gimmick. These are people who played a huge ton of matches as her (and compared her to other characters). And from footage I've watched, she survives getting hit really well. Survives past 200% even against the likes of Bowser, regularly.

It does makes sense since she has powers over gravity. She was always a light-heavyweight racer in the Mario Kart games.

As for Ike, yep, beast's been putting on some muscles.

So Luigi is still the same weight as he was in Brawl. Not so bad. Not too overly heavy, not too overly light. Robin isn't so light or heavy either... Nice for me too.

And you're welcome. I appreciate learning stuff. c:

And knowing is half the battle!

 

[Demon-oni]

Nice job. Would you mind telling me how you measure their weights to a number in training mode? I've never quite understood how that worked.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Nice job. Would you mind telling me how you measure their weights to a number in training mode? I've never quite understood how that worked.

I used a particular move that had been unchanged from Brawl to measure knockback on high percentage targets.

Then I cross referenced the results from both games and deduced the weights myself.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Huh. I expected Ganondorf to weigh more.

 

[Muster]

Being me, I've decided to rank each character by how much they weigh. Cutting straight to content; here's the character rankings (so far! WIP PLEASE UNDERSTAND I HAVENT UNLOCKED EVERYONE YET)

Great work! Glad to know this info so early. I'm really feeling Shulk's weight

Rosalina second lightest? I REALLY don't really buy that.

Everyone I've seen talk about her weight has stated that she's around Samus' weight, and shares Samus' "heavy but floaty" gimmick. These are people who played a huge ton of matches as her (and compared her to other characters). And from footage I've watched, she survives getting hit really well. Survives past 200% even against the likes of Bowser, regularly.

POTD: Rosalina's got height! She is seriously tall! However, she boasts an anti-gravity effect, so she's very light.

Mewtwo had this same problem in melee, a canonically heavy character who Sakurai made light for a balancing effect.

 

[ChikoLad]

Great work! Glad to know this info so early. I'm really feeling Shulk's weight

POTD: Rosalina's got height! She is seriously tall! However, she boasts an anti-gravity effect, so she's very light.

Mewtwo had this same problem in melee, a canonically heavy character who Sakurai made light for a balancing effect.

I'm aware of that PotD, but people have vouched for it being incorrect after spending a lot of time with her. Leading to the conclusion that Sakurai was actually referring to her floatiness in that PotD. Even when Bill Trinen was playing as her, he noted how well she can survive while demonstrating how she can survive to above 200% on Battlefield against Bowser and DK.

As for why he wouldn't use the term weight in that PotD, I believe that what we call "weight" is referred to as "defense" by Sakurai, judging by how custom equipment and stuff work in Smash 4 (increasing your defense with custom equipment makes you harder to launch, i.e. "heavier" in our terms. That's ALL it does, meaning what we call "weight" is "defense" in Sakurai's eyes).

 

[Minty_]

You can't argue with science.

 

[Shaya]

You're right, I do recall a heavy looking Rosalina and having the conversation of "oh ****" with various people. But she seems to be a huge lightweight now.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Whether or not you think Rosalina is heavy or not makes very little difference to me, the fact of the matter is she's not heavy at all.

Don't want to believe me? Enjoy being disappointed at launch then. :/

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina being lightweight wouldn't even make a whole lot of sense because Luma is so easy to K.O as it is.

The whole point of her playstyle is that you're worrying about whether or not Luma can survive. Get one good hit that sends him off a bottomless pit, and he's gone, as he falls straight down, and will be helpless until he lands on solid ground. When Luma is gone, Rosalina loses her tag team gimmick for 8 seconds, as well as most of her K.O potential, near invulnerability to grabs, her masterful control over the battles pace, her ability to set up really elaborate combos with Luma, etc. That's the risky side of her playstyle, unlike Mewtwo who was light and huge himself. Rosalina is still able to survive perfectly fine, it's Luma that you have to worry about, since losing Luma will put everyone but the best Rosalina players into a position where they feel they have to stall, thus meaning that her opponent now controls the pace of the battle.

This is something that has been well known for a long time, and many people in the Rosalina boards have been asked this question time and time again. And we reply with the same answer every single time - "she's not light, just floaty, like Samus".

I think her being "light" is being mixed up for her floatiness, because floaty characters are easier to K.O horizontally, regardless of weight, since that floaty effect means it's harder to cancel momentum in the air and as such, the just get carried horizontally (unless the character has momentum negating moves, which funnily enough, Rosalina does have in her Down B - hence, she's an excellent survivor). However, it's harder to K.O them vertically. Samus is also like this, she's easy enough to K.O to the side, but not towards the top of the stage, and even spikes are less effective on her.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

stop

Just

stop.

You have literally everything around the wrong way. Floatiness gives GOOD horizontal survivability and POOR vertical survivability.

I've been doing this stuff for YEARS. I know what I'm talking about.

 

[ChikoLad]

stop

Just

stop.

You have literally everything around the wrong way. Floatiness gives GOOD horizontal survivability and POOR vertical survivability.

I've been doing this stuff for YEARS. I know what I'm talking about.

It's funny because I literally had this exact same discussion with someone before, on the exact same character, and they said the exact same thing you did just there, and they were promptly proven wrong with some data.

http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-weight-rankings.367479/#post-17565187

This is incorrect, floatyness does not lessen horizontal blows; falling speed does not have any effect on horizontal blows whatsoever (other then slightly influencing the exact trajectory). The reason why some fast fallers like Fox die earlier horizontally than lighter floatier characters is because they have a high gravity value, which then causes them to actually sustain more knockback than some lighter characters (more gravity = more knockback). This gravity also causes them to die vertically sooner than they should with their weight and falling speed since they're sustaining more actual knockback, which is why Fox's vertical endurance is on the low end in Brawl despite still having his insane falling speed, unlike in Melee where it was among the high end (as gravity didn't effect knockback in Melee).

For gravity, it correlates with falling speed (all the space animals have high gravity values, and all the super floaties have low gravity values), though they're not completely dependent on each other, as you have the likes of Squirtle and Bowser with among the highest gravity values despite their more floaty falling speeds, while Dedede and Snake have middling gravity values despite falling as fast as the space animals (which is why those two also take horizontal hits ridiculously long despite falling much faster than the other super heavies).

Now meteor smashes and other downward hitting moves will be directly worse on fast fallers, while not being as effective on floaties.

It's true I made a flub up there in this topic regarding the horizontal K.O thing but Rosalina is still Samus like in being floaty but heavy.

Now I don't think she's quite as heavy as Samus, as most of her ability to survive comes from other factors. But she ain't lighter than Pikachu.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Good thing Smash 4 doesn't have Brawl's mechanics.

You literally have someone who's been doing frame data and hitbox data and w/e through Brawl and Project M and now Smash 4, AND ALSO THE CREATOR OF THE SMASH SERIES telling you that Rosalina is extremely light and you won't believe it.

@Mario_and_Sonic_Guy escort pls

 

[ChikoLad]

Good thing Smash 4 doesn't have Brawl's mechanics.

You literally have someone who's been doing frame data and hitbox data and w/e through Brawl and Project M and now Smash 4, AND ALSO THE CREATOR OF THE SMASH SERIES telling you that Rosalina is extremely light and you won't believe it.

@Mario_and_Sonic_Guy escort pls

I won't believe it because footage speaks louder than words and bragging rights. And I've seen enough footage, and read enough breakdowns from people who've actually extensively tested the character specifically, and in this situation, that means a whole lot more than having general experience with past games.

And I've already disclosed how Sakurai's definition of "light" in regards to Smash refers to floatiness, not to our definition of weight. What we call "weight", he calls "Defense".

 

[KuroganeHammer]

oh my god

no no no

no, this is why we cant have nice things

imagine if we had a public data forum like the smash lab

you would be the guy saying:

"no, rosalina isnt that weight because i saw footage of an incomplete demo of her when she didnt even have a crouch animation, also she was fat in mario kart and smash 4 is basically mario kart except with stages and not tracks"

im done. i am so done.

 

[Muster]

Looked up some Rosalina footage (Final game, not e3 build) and i'm 100% sure that whatever weight she had before is gone now.
Rosalina gets knocked around like a ping pong ball with as little % as 50.

e3=/=final, and only one of you has the final game. You can't argue Rosalina's weight back, just stop.

 

[ChikoLad]

I didn't say an incomplete version.

The full Japanese game has been streamed the past two days. Figured you'd know it was out by now. I've had plenty of final build footage to watch.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i just ike up smashed rosalina in training mode

she died at 82%

i just ike up smashed pikachu in training mode

he died at 84%

get out of my topic.