Shulk Monado Data Thread

[KuroganeHammer]

DEFAULT MONADO ARTS

Stance | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Aerial Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔 (Jump) | +22% (1.22×) | None. | ? | + | | + | + |
疾 (Speed) | None. | −28% (0.72×) | None. | − | + | + | |
盾 (Shield) | −33% (0.67×) | −30% (0.7×) | +44 | − | − | − | | + 斬 (Buster) | +20% (1.2×) | +40% (1.4×) | ? | | | | |
撃 (Smash) | None. | −50% (0.5×) | −12.5 | | | | |

DECISIVE MONADO ARTS

Stance | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Aerial Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔 (Jump) | +22% (1.22×) | None. | ? | + | | + | + |
疾 (Speed) | None. | −28% (0.72×) | None. | − | + | + | |
盾 (Shield) | −39.7% (0.603×) | −30% (0.7×) | ? | − | − | − | | + 斬 (Buster) | +20% (1.2×) | +54% (1.54×) | ? | | | | |
撃 (Smash) | None. | −50% (0.5×) | ? | | | | |

EXTREME MONADO ARTS

Stance | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Aerial Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔 (Jump) | +46.4% (1.464×) | None. | ? | + | | +++ | + |
疾 (Speed) | None. | −43.5% (0.575×) | None. | − | +++ | + | |
盾 (Shield) | −47.4% (0.536×) | −44% (0.56×) | +87 | − | − | − | | +++ 斬 (Buster) | +44% (1.44×) | +68% (1.68×) | ? | | | | |
撃 (Smash) | None. | −60% (0.4×) | −35 | | | | |

VISION

Vision is a counter which deals damage based on the damage you receive. Inputting a forward direction while countering an attack will execute a different counter attack.

Default Vision:
Standing Counter: 10% on the middle of the blade, 7% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 13%
Damage Multiplier: 1.3×

Vision 2:
Standing Counter: 8% on the middle of the blade, 5% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 11%
Damage Multiplier: 1.0×

Vision 3:
Standing Counter: 17% on the middle of the blade, 14% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 20%
Damage Multiplier: 1.5×

Damage Calculator for Vision: Damage of countered move × 1.3 × Monado Art Damage Multiplier

Spoiler: Moveset Base Percentages

Move | Base %
Jab 1 | 3
Jab 2 | 3
Jab 3 | 4.3
Ftilt | 12/10.5
Utilt | 7/6
Dtilt | 8/6
Dash Attack | 10

 

[Virum]

Are you sure the Buster row should have "Damage Dealt Increase/Decrease" as "None"? Surely there's a multiplier there since isn't Buster meant to both raise your damage and increase the amount of knockback you receive? Unless I'm reading the chart wrong.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Are you sure the Buster row should have "Damage Dealt Increase/Decrease" as "None"? Surely there's a multiplier there since isn't Buster meant to both raise your damage and increase the amount of damage you receive? Unless I'm reading the chart wrong.

ty i fixed it

 

[Hokori]

Thanks a ton for this Aero. I've been wondering about the specific details behind the calculations for the Arts, but now we have some insight

I'll decide what exactly I'd like to do with it later, but for now, it's just fine as a standalone topic. Aside from Counter Damage Mechanics, do you also plan on including base damage, etc for all of his moves? May be a bit much to ask and I can't remember if anyone has done it already, but it'd be nice to have that too, if that wasn't already in your plans.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yes that was in my plans.

My vision for this topic is to be a sort of place where people can comment on all sorts of shulk related mechanics.

I've been informed that Shulk's custom moves have more extreme examples of monado arts, so that's next on my agenda after I figure out the charge multiplier down to three decimal places

BYE

 

[Berserker.]

疾 (Speed) | None. | +28% (0.7199x multiplier)

I think it should by -28% since the multiplier goes lower

Other than that, good job Aero!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

thanks, im derp

ill finish the custom monado move tonight, pretty sure these are all accurate to a decimal ppont at least

 

[Card]

It seems that there is missing another column for Knockback modifiers. According to Sakurai's miiverse post on the Monado, 斬 (Buster) is supposed to also have "Weaker launching capabilities" in addition to the +40% damage multiplier you found. Conversely 撃(Smash) is supposed to have "Strong launching capabilities" , despite doing less damage due to there being a -50% damage multiplier. Is there any way you could find out those values?

Apart from that good work! I wish I could help with the testing but unfortunately I have to wait for the NA release.

 

[KassandraNova]

I probably won't be calculating all of these numbers in my head while playing because I hate math, and play video games to escape from the menace that is math, but this is still really great information to know. Thank you for making this thread!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It seems that there is missing another column for Knockback modifiers. According to Sakurai's miiverse post on the Monado, 斬 (Buster) is supposed to also have "Weaker launching capabilities" in addition to the +40% damage multiplier you found. Conversely 撃(Smash) is supposed to have "Strong launching capabilities" , despite doing less damage due to there being a -50% damage multiplier. Is there any way you could find out those values?

I could probably find it out assuming that they increase and decrease at the same rate over every single move.

But absolutely no promises.

 

[Berserker.]

If anyone noticed, the OP got updated

I take back what I said about Buster not taking any additional damage. Lol. Jumped too quickly

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I can't tell the exact %'s because Shulk stops using Monado arts other than shield after 100%.

which means some of these will be getting %'s that I think it is (I will note this in the OP)

Edit: Let me explain,

I use a 10% move repeatedly to determine damage %.

So for Buster?

The move does 12%, 24%, 36%, 48%, 60%, 72%, 84%, 96%, 108%, 120%, 132%, 144%.

I stop there and think:

This is consistant and has not changed. The only damage range this can be dealing is 12% to 12.08%, and I can probably assume that it's more likely to be a 1.2x multiplier than a 1.208x multiplier.

 

[Berserker.]

Shulk stops using Monado arts other than shield after 100%.

Shulk stops using Monado arts after 100%?

Might come off as being dumb but can you explain this a bit more?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I mean the CPU is stupid and won't use the monado arts I want it to.

You can use monado arts at any percent, but the CPU is like "IM AT HIGH PERCENT I HAVE TO USE SHIELD"

So then I can't hit it repeatedly with one attack to find damage multipliers.

Check my last post for an explanation.

 

[Berserker.]

I mean the CPU is stupid and won't use the monado arts I want it to.

You can use monado arts at any percent, but the CPU is like "IM AT HIGH PERCENT I HAVE TO USE SHIELD"

So then I can't hit it repeatedly with one attack to find damage multipliers.

Check my last post for an explanation.

Ah I see. Thanks for the explanation and the additional data, as always

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Here's some max launch speed numbers for Shulk (aka knockback) using default Monado:

No Monado Art (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 360

斬 (Buster) (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 260

撃 (Smash) (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 407

---


No Monado Art (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 124

斬 (Buster) (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 84

撃 (Smash) (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 147

Now for Monado 3:

No Monado Art (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 360

斬 (Buster) (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 210

撃 (Smash) (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 451

---


No Monado Art (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 124

斬 (Buster) (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 66

撃 (Smash) (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 176

Edit: Higher = more knockback

It's worth noting that the calculations for this could be as simple as just halving KBG and BKB or there could be some pretty complicated maths behind all this. I don't really know, but it's safe to say that the difference is significant.

 

[Masonomace]

VISION

Vision is a counter which deals damage based on the damage you receive. Inputting a forward direction while countering an attack will execute a different counter attack.

I liked your entire OP, but what's in the quote is what I'm curious about for the moment. So inputting or during Vision executes a different counter attack, something I was not aware you could do, which is exactly what was shown in Shulk's trailer during his showcasing Vision counter.

What's unique about doing the forward dashing Vision counterattack besides positioning? More KB? KBS? (Knock-back scaling)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

The normal one has more range, the one where you input forward has less range but more base damage.

I don't know the differences other than that.

 

[Masonomace]

The normal one has more range, the one where you input forward has less range but more base damage.

I don't know the differences other than that.

Nice, so basically the Buster Art augmenting Vision's forward dash input equals tons of % damage, implying it succeeds hitting the countered target. Got it.

But that said option above for Buster is optional, since Buster doesn't need more base damage to add to. Now, Smash on the other hand, I feel needs the forward dash input to counter-balance the loss of damage dealt output to make the Smash augmented Vision score KO's averagely around 80% on mid-weight characters if landed successfully, varying on the move it counters as well.

Thanks Aero, very educational.

 

[Card]

Here's some max launch speed numbers for Shulk (aka knockback)

......

Awesome, thanks for your research.

It's also nice to see that 斬-Buster and 撃-Smash affect throws, and I assume that means they affect every attack in his repertoire. I was worried that it would only change the knockback of Monado slashes.

EDIT: well in retrospect.. he does use his Monado in his throw animations...

 

[Masonomace]

Hey @ KuroganeHammer I have something to point out about Monado Arts. The 'Rage Effect' shown in this video, tells that every character gets added knock-back to all of their moves when their base % gets higher. So by this, the in-game value of 'Rage' affects the data for each Art based on your current %. So would another multiplier to represent 'Rage' need to be implemented in the formula in your given example, or something?
Throwing it out there if it's to be another multiplier.
r* = rage multiplier

Example:

Forward throw does 10% base damage. You are in Monado Buster mode, and your forward throw is fresh.

Damage = b × m × s × c

b = base damage
m = monado stance multiplier
s = stale multiplier
c = charge multiplier

So for fthrow, your calcs look like this: 10 × 1.4 × 1.05 × 1 = 14.7%

 

[KuroganeHammer]

No, rage affects knockback, not damage

That formula is for damage only.

I have to make an actual damage formula actually.

Soon(tm)

 

[Masonomace]

Right. My bad on that. Maybe I meant to quote your other post about launch speed numbers involving Rage Effect added to them.

Spoiler: Aerodrome's Max launch speed numbers

Here's some max launch speed numbers for Shulk (aka knockback) using default Monado:

No Monado Art (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 360

斬 (Buster) (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 260

撃 (Smash) (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 407

---


No Monado Art (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 124

斬 (Buster) (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 84

撃 (Smash) (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 147

Now for Monado 3:

No Monado Art (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 360

斬 (Buster) (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 210

撃 (Smash) (Fully charged Dsmash on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 451

---


No Monado Art (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 124

斬 (Buster) (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 66

撃 (Smash) (uthrow on Jigglypuff @ 300%): 176

Edit: Higher = more knockback

It's worth noting that the calculations for this could be as simple as just halving KBG and BKB or there could be some pretty complicated maths behind all this. I don't really know, but it's safe to say that the difference is significant.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Rage will affect that, yes.

But rage is only about a 15% bonus, so don't get too hyped.

 

[Masonomace]

Understandable, that's a bit underwhelming, but I'll take it. I've learned to appreciate the small bonuses after a huge disadvantage knock-back decrease from you-know-who.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Shulk basically becomes Pokemon trainer when he uses shield monado art.

 

[Masonomace]

Shulk basically becomes Pokemon trainer when he uses shield monado art.

Which is why I'm oddly interested in 's game-play with his Arts, considering I was an main in Brawl before playing fully as my primary. At least Shield's KB doesn't decrease in the same manner Stamina & Fatigue do *shudder*, & the Rage bonus over the course of the match is slowly increasing knock-back. So yeah I like that Shield is an improved version of by far.

 

[Berserker.]

Just saying but I think this thread needs to be stickied if we're not gonna have a compilation thread anytime soon

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i dont like sticking my own threads, but i guess i'll do it? if hokori has other plans then he can unstick.

 

[Berserker.]

i dont like sticking my own threads, but i guess i'll do it? if hokori has other plans then he can unstick.

I think you should ask Hokori first

Edit: Never mind lol

 

[Hokori]

Nah, I'm cool with this sticked. Until the new Moveset Data & Discussion thread is up, with Aero's info included, this is fine.

Nice to see Vision and some base percentages of Shulk's moves included in the OP now though.

 

[Masonomace]

Yo Aero I'm a tad confused involving the Jump Art. Apparently this wiki states that Jump reduces Weight, is that true or no? I'm assuming no since I took a look at your Weight value table & saw nothing about Jump on there.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

the OP isn't finished

Anything with a question mark isn't finished.

It's not just a matter of just testing it either. Damage increase affects knockback which skews my weight tests.

 

[Berserker.]

Yo Aero I'm a tad confused involving the Jump Art. Apparently this wiki states that Jump reduces Weight, is that true or no? I'm assuming no since I took a look at your Weight value table & saw nothing about Jump on there.

It probably does but it doesn't seem like it's noticeable since most of the people that played as Shulk never made a mention about the weight decrease or they possibly didn't know about it

Be patient and let Aerodrome crunch the numbers

 

[Berserker.]

CRAP. Accidental post. Delete please

 

[KuroganeHammer]

lol

Also

Shulk's Vision 7%, 10% or 13% 1.3×
Shulk's Vision 2 5%, 8% or 11% 1.0×
Shulk's Vision 3 14%, 17% or 20% 1.5×

I've stuck this in the OP since it's base damage stuff

 

[Masonomace]

Speggtacular Aero. Thanks to the max.

EDIT: @ KuroganeHammer Can't believe I forgot to ask this, but does Shulk's Vision counters 1 2 & 3 have different % damages when hitting at the very start-up with the Blade's Base / glass lens area?

 

[Conda]

Awesome! Now all we need is knockback-dealt data, knockback-taken data, and jump height data.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Speggtacular Aero. Thanks to the max.

EDIT: @ KuroganeHammer Can't believe I forgot to ask this, but does Shulk's Vision counters 1 2 & 3 have different % damages when hitting at the very start-up with the Blade's Base / glass lens area?

can you rephrase that

 

[Masonomace]

can you rephrase that

Apologies.

Does the Vision counterattack have a stronger hit-box that deals stronger % around the beginning of the move?

You'd have to be as close to Shulk as possible to make this work, because in some of Shulk's moves the beginning start-up of his attacks deal more % damage than the active part of the Blade or Beam, or even the Tip of the Beam. That's what I'm referring to when saying the Blade's Base / Glass lens area.