Sheilda 3.5 (Match up thread and/or guide)

[Captive]

I have been a lurker for a little while now and this is my first actual post. I am going to be posting it in both the Zelda and Sheik Boards.

I am a dedicated Sheilda main. I love playing both them but that being the case I have an incredibly hard time knowing when to switch characters. That comes from my lack of match up knowledge and I am coming here to ask the experts for as much guidance as possible.

 

[ECHOnce]

From my experience as a Sheilda myself, you'll probably have a bit more luck finding Sheildas on the Zelda boards aha. The Sheildas that do check the Sheik boards already check here, and even without Sheilda experience, more people generally understand how Sheik plays than Zelda (so they may have a better general idea of what to do).

I usually start off as Zelda and transform for the following reasons:

• I'm at kill % as Zelda and want to go Sheik so I can survive longer, since Zelda dies pretty early as a floaty. This is hugely MU and stage dependent; you should try to figure out which stages you like playing on as both characters and keep that in mind as you stage ban. For example, I don't mind going to Yoshi's Island (Brawl) for Sheik, but usually ban it since kills my Zelda game; it screws up full horizontal 3.5 Teleshorts, it's harder-ish to sweetspot ledge safely (now that her teleport has to be teleshort cancelled to sweet spot while going upwards), it's easier to juggle certain characters due to the platform placement (arguably Zelda's biggest weakness), and the ghosts platforms don't really save anyone besides your LK'ed opponents (your horizontal recovery is more than sufficient without them). But on that note, if I do get CP'ed to a stage I hate as one char, you have the upper-hand; all you can accomplish by CP'ing a Sheilda is to eliminate one of their char options and knock them down closer to their level in terms of options. Just avoid being forced to choose between, say, playing an MU you hate as Sheik or playing on a stage you hate as Zelda.

• I get CP'ed in the MU and want to transform either immediately (namely against Squirtle, Tink, and M2), or observe my opponents habits for my first stock or two before trying to punish things with Sheik (usually against Marth, Ike, Charizard, Bowser, Link, and anyone else I don't feel super comfortable against as Zelda). This can depend on whichever character you personally feel most comfortable using in any given MU, so try to keep that in mind if you find yourself playing a variety of characters in friendlies.

• If during these observation periods I find that they don't understand how to play against Sheik or Zelda, then I CP them as a player and try to abuse MU knowledge; this almost only happens as Zelda, since many more Melee-based players (and even many PM players) don't have much experience in the Zelda MU and can find it frustrating if they don't know how to observe and adapt effectively. Alternatively, if I realize that they don't know the Zelda MU but are a smarter, adaptive player, I'll go mostly Sheik so they can't learn as much about Zelda, and try to only bring her out to disrupt their momentum and maintain a lead.

• On that note, if you're confident in an MU, have the lead, and feel you don't need transform, then don't. Save it as a trump card for if you start losing later in a set; nothing throws ppl off more than going Zelda/Sheik in the final game, after they've gotten used to playing your other character. Before they have any chance to adjust, play against them by intentionally and immediately abusing Sheik's quick pressure and rush down follow ups, or Zelda's traps and good anti-approach options straight out of transform, and you might secure yourself a surprise stock.

• Zelda > Sheik transform can give you a lot of horizontal momentum when done straight after a jump in 3.5. If I'm high % and still relatively close to the stage, I'll make use of Transform + Vanish invincibility to accomplish recovering safely and turning into Sheik in a single instance.

• Sheik > Zelda is most commonly known to be used for recovery in Melee. It can be, but your chances of doing so still don't happen all that often. Usually I transform from Sheik > Zelda after dying as Sheik (given my inclination to go Sheik once I reach high %) since Sheik is combo food weight for most characters at low %, as opposed Zelda who's so floaty that many traditional combos don't work on her even at low %.

• If I'm respawning, they're high %, and I still have some momentum from the last stock, I may stay Sheik for a bit to try get a quick kill off.

• If I'm respawning and they're low-mid %, I may transform immediately after hitting the ground, while I still have respawn invincibility. Transform invincibility time does not overlap with respawn invincibility, so you can sometimes throw opponents off by letting them think they can get a free smash/grab on you out of transform. But since you're actually still invincible, you can get a free grab or LK punish lol.

There's a bunch of more reasons I may not be considering or remember, but afaik those are the major reasons many of us go back and forth. Don't let people tell you that you shouldn't play Sheilda, because there's absolutely no reason not to reap the benefits of both characters if it doesn't personally throw off your tech.

 

[4tlas]

Welcome to the boards! I am also a Sheilda main, and I would be happy to share what I know (but don't trust all of it over your own judgement).

E.C.H.O. covered a lot of the good stuff. I'll try to summarize and emphasize the most important parts, which will hopefully help you remember them during a match.

1) If the MU is better, switch when you get a chance. Sheik has a vaguely even MU spread, while Zelda has some she does well in and some she sucks in. You can find detailed discussions on these in the respective sub-forums.

2) If your opponent gets used to one, switch it up to confuse them. Related to this is whether or not the opponent plays Melee, in which case they start out used to Sheik.

3) Zelda is difficult to combo but easy to kill, while Sheik is the opposite. Consider starting stocks as Zelda and switching to Sheik around 65-95%, depending on the map and when you get a safe chance. After 135% Sheik will die on most stages anyway, so you may wish to switch back to Zelda so you don't spend time when you spawn.

4) Zelda racks up damage quickly while Sheik has the great neutral game for when you only need or can't afford one hit.

5) Counterpicking in tournaments. If the opponent doesn't know you play Sheilda, it is easy to bait bad stage selections from them. Sheik doesn't really care where she goes, but Zelda excels on tiny or huge stages, depending on the MU (leaning towards small).

6) Edgeguarding/recovery scenarios. Zelda can edgeguard certain recoveries well with a Din and lightning kicks. The ones she does poorly with Sheik still does well with. Transforming Sheik->Zelda can give you extra teleport distance and reduced endlag, but the load time should make you fall a bit first, so you can only use this when Sheik's recovery would still make it but will be punished (so, above the stage or close-ish). Transforming Zelda->Sheik can give you an odd burst of horizontal momentum while transforming, which allows it to be used as a recovery. Jumping or fastfalling before transforming then moving sideways should do it. I just kinda do it, so hopefully that's the right input...

7) Which times are safe to transform?
- opponent dead
- respawn invulnerability
- opponent far from stage
- Zelda/Sheik far from stage
- large stage (Dreamland, Norfair, maybe FD) vs campy player or slow character on the other side
- no way to recover, want to transform before death to save time later
- huge Dins explosion covers your transform. This works because Din explodes on transform

And I think that covers most things that are Sheilda-specific, and not just "how to Sheik" or "how to Zelda". Oh wait.

8) STYLE ON SOME FOOLS! Yeah this isn't my MO, but it causes massive hype when I'm either a) losing horribly and bring it back due to character swap or b) do crazy shenanigans with both characters or c) swap for just the kill move (Note: singular) and then switch back, usually due to an accidental downB lol the disrespect. Any of these can really get into your opponent's head, even if you don't mean to disrespect them. I know most of my opponents hate my Zelda, so if I ever play on point with Sheik too they just crumble and crack like a salt flat.

 

[Captive]

Thank you guys so much. This really help!