Share your flowcharts!

[dizzypink]

This thread is to talk about and share our "order of operations" with Meta Knight, these could be very specific going into detail about where to land and what distance to keep, or it could be general ideas like how to play on stages with platforms vs without platforms. I decided to pick up Meta Knight for 3.6 and as it turns out I'm pretty good with him, so I'd like to see what others have found out that it might take me longer to find on my own, as well as let everyone else know what I do just in case I find something that hasn't been thought about before.
So here are all of my flowcharts for Meta Knight so far, I might add some more if I find out new ones, and they're mostly combos.
By the way, all of these should be viewed with the implication that they're all SHFFL'd, just so that I can save time writing them.

Fair > Fair endless combo works on pretty much anyone with average weight, I find.
Fair > Dtilt (works on everyone if they don't tech or CC) > Ftilt X3 > dash attack (or Nair if low percent) > Ftilt X3 (can also be replaced with a side B at high percents)
Fair > Dtilt > Dair > Fair/Bair (depends on which way they go) > down B if you think you can finish
Fair > Utilt until out of reach (if you land close enough) > Nair > down B or side B
If opponent is falling, Nair > Uair (possible to juggle) > neutral B
If opponent is on platform Nair (canceled by platform if you Nair fast enough) > jab > grab > use any grab flowchart
Grab > Fthrow > Fair/Dair/Nair
Grab > Dthrow > Fair/Dair/Nair
Grab > Bthrow > neutral B/side B
Grab > Uthrow > If DI behind, Nair/Bair, If DI forward, Nair/Fair, If no DI or down/up DI, Nair/Dair/neutral B, if popped up from high percent, Uair/neutral B

That's all that I can think of right now, but I'm sure there are tons more. In my experience, the attacks not used as combo starters are known to send enemies too far to start a combo without momentum. So what am I missing? What can you come up with? How can you tweak or apply some of my flowcharts? I'd love to see what you all think.

 

[ConeZ]

I have long had a pocket MK, and I have switched to main him this patch finally.

I think calling different followups flowcharts is weird, but whatever. As opposed to writing out different things that work, I think it'd be better to write out our actual game plan.
First off, I don't claim to be a top level player, but I would like to say my MK as of right now (until it proves itself in tournament) is capable of mid/high level play, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I would like to think that a lot of my playstyle is generally close to correct, but needs practice and whatnot.

Anyways, imo as far as MK is concerned, as opposed to thinking of him in terms of what comboes work generally, you should think of him more in terms of what he excels at, which is tech chasing and juggling. That is to say, if you can either
A) knock your opponent down or
B) put your opponent above you
you are GOLDEN, and both of those situations will lead to the most damage.MK is AMAZING at tech chasing his d-throw, and it can rack up damage fast, but he is arguably even better at juggling especially because of how fast his up air comes out.

So generally, when I play neutral, I will do the typical, SHFFL nairs, DD grab, etc shenanigans/ punish mistakes, and just play the neutral depending on the matchup, and my entire focus is to just put myself into one of the 2 aforementioned situations.

Tech chasing is pretty self explanatory, but the big part about the second point I want to stress is that by put your opponent above you, I mean just above you. You don't even have to be hitting them. If you are, great, but when you aren't, you should be shadowing them, If they are on a platform, get below them, and space up airs/ up tilt to keep them up there, and once you hit them, commence #MetaknightThings.

I have a lot of followups I could specifically bring up, but they are all situational, and the main gameplan is really all that matters imo.

TL;DR Do neutral stuff. Knock down or pop up the enemy/ get under them. Do Metaknight things. Good day. xD

 

[dizzypink]

I have long had a pocket MK, and I have switched to main him this patch finally.

I think calling different followups flowcharts is weird, but whatever. As opposed to writing out different things that work, I think it'd be better to write out our actual game plan.
First off, I don't claim to be a top level player, but I would like to say my MK as of right now (until it proves itself in tournament) is capable of mid/high level play, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I would like to think that a lot of my playstyle is generally close to correct, but needs practice and whatnot.

Anyways, imo as far as MK is concerned, as opposed to thinking of him in terms of what comboes work generally, you should think of him more in terms of what he excels at, which is tech chasing and juggling. That is to say, if you can either
A) knock your opponent down or
B) put your opponent above you
you are GOLDEN, and both of those situations will lead to the most damage.MK is AMAZING at tech chasing his d-throw, and it can rack up damage fast, but he is arguably even better at juggling especially because of how fast his up air comes out.

So generally, when I play neutral, I will do the typical, SHFFL nairs, DD grab, etc shenanigans/ punish mistakes, and just play the neutral depending on the matchup, and my entire focus is to just put myself into one of the 2 aforementioned situations.

Tech chasing is pretty self explanatory, but the big part about the second point I want to stress is that by put your opponent above you, I mean just above you. You don't even have to be hitting them. If you are, great, but when you aren't, you should be shadowing them, If they are on a platform, get below them, and space up airs/ up tilt to keep them up there, and once you hit them, commence #MetaknightThings.

I have a lot of followups I could specifically bring up, but they are all situational, and the main gameplan is really all that matters imo.

TL;DR Do neutral stuff. Knock down or pop up the enemy/ get under them. Do Metaknight things. Good day. xD

Good points, I did say that this is more of just a general strategy thread so both of our posts are the kind of thing I'm looking for, I just took a more specific approach to explaining it. I'm glad to see someone who plays MK so much is taking interest. Do you think you could post some of your specific follow up choices for me? I'd like to see what works, and if I've ever thought of any of it before.

 

[ConeZ]

Well in general, out of neutral, I generally S sHFFL nairs, DD into grabs, space dtilts, and will also occasionally use the side b as an approach if the situation permits.

As far as followups, I think in general, MK's best combo starters are d-tilt, up tilt, up air, side b, and also his down throw, though d-throw starts a tech chase which leads to other things.

My favorite sequence (if I can get a few good reactions) is:
D-throw x(tech chase) > Side B x1 (tech chase) > up tilt > up air (juggle) > nair/ bair/ DC
I managed to get a 0 to death with this on a local Charizard xD

I just don't like falling into the x follow up works every time because a lot of it is DI stuff, matchup stuff, etc. Also that was kinda the downfall of my Wario. My punish game was very good, but my neutral was very bad because I stopped focusing on what was safe and more on what was going to do the most damage.

I think a good thing to practice is the up air juggle comboes to ceiling shuttle loops/ dimensional capes. That is something I need to get better at honestly.
I think I may come back at a later time to give actual follow up stuff once 3.6 has settled more xD

 

[dizzypink]

Good stuff, maybe this thread will be more active and useful once the full release comes out. I've had some success with neutral B right after side B if I carry them max distance, think I should go for something else? It does leave me kinda open if they're not a higher percent and it takes away anymore combo potential by putting me in helpless fall.

 

[ConeZ]

Interesting development (it is probably out there somewhere) Up throw > Down b

It works at middle/ high % dpending on weight, and it is so good, but you have to react/ read DI

 

[Narelex]

I have basically no Flowchart its all situational IMO

Except for one certain thing

Against Fastfallers

if they whiff something you can

Upsmash->Upsmash->Upsmash->Bair/Dair/Nair

Its kind of silly, it can be SDI'ed out of but no one seems to do it since MK is an enigma to most people

 

[dizzypink]

I have basically no Flowchart its all situational IMO

Except for one certain thing

Against Fastfallers

if they whiff something you can

Upsmash->Upsmash->Upsmash->Bair/Dair/Nair

Its kind of silly, it can be SDI'ed out of but no one seems to do it since MK is an enigma to most people

I'm a fan of the dash dance up smash tactic with any character, but it usually only works after like two times if he thinks you're gonna come in for an aerial, so I'd say try to juke him with empty short hops and wavedashes and stuff if you go for that.