Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[FlareHabanero]

Characters having their own personal icon and victory song would be a nice touch. The latter was planned for Brawl, so it's not like there is any problems with implementing it in the next game.

 

[FalKoopa]

I want each character to have his/her/its own victory theme, before having unique icons.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@volbound- I personally don't mind Luigi getting his own icon but I think he's associated with the Mario series a little too heavily for that to actually happen

I mean after all, he's Mario's brother. Player 2 in the Mario games he's in. Even in Luigi's Mansion, his own game, he was there to save Mario.

At least with Yoshi and Wario and DK they've set themselves apart far enough from the Mario series to be able to rep their own series, Luigi isn't on that level yet

 

[Oasis_S]

Characters having their own personal icon and victory song would be a nice touch. The latter was planned for Brawl, so it's not like there is any problems with implementing it in the next game.

I'd really like that.

I'm pretty sure Ridley has a little logo for himself/his fleet if Sakurai really felt like digging that up.

 

[Gene]

I'd really like that.

I'm pretty sure Ridley has a little logo for himself/his fleet if Sakurai really felt like digging that up.

A little logo for Ridley? Oh no no no no. Ridley's logo would be too big to implement in Smash Bros.

 

[Big-Cat]

Pikachu has: Hey You, Pikachu!, Pokemon Channel, Pokemon Dash, PokePark Wii, etc. Pikachu should get in as his own series!

In fact, lets give everyone their own series/icons while we're at it. Like seriously, why the does Ike have the Falchion as his icon? It doesn't make any sense!1!!

But seriously, I don't really care that much about icons in the end.

We might as well ask why the Falchion is the Fire Emblem icon. It's the dragon on the title screen that shows up a lot.

 

[bobadz]

Characters having their own personal icon and victory song would be a nice touch. The latter was planned for Brawl, so it's not like there is any problems with implementing it in the next game.

Indeed

For the brawl characters , Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pit, Lucas, Marth, Captain Falcon, Olimar, R.O.B, Mr Game & Watch, Snake, and Sonic would have the same themes from brawl.

Luigi would have a variation of the luigi's mansion theme.
Bowser would have a variation of bowser's castle theme.
Peach would have a variation of the theme of super princess peach.
Diddy would have a variation of the DKC2 main theme.
Zelda would have a variation of Zelda' lullaby.
Shiek would have a variation of Sheik's theme.
Ganondorf would have a variation of Ganondorf's theme.
Toon Link would have a Variation of the Great Sea's theme.
Jigglypuff would have her lullaby ( can't think of anything else)
Pokemon Trainer would have a variation of the level up theme.
Lucario would have a variation of Gen IV's battle theme
Zero Suit Samus would have a variation of theme of Samus Aran
Meta Knight would have a variation of revenge of the Meta Knight
Kind DeDeDe would have a Variation of his theme.
Falco would have a variation of his theme
Wolf would have a variation of the star wolf theme
Ness would have the Mother Melee victory fanfare
And Ike Would have a variation of his theme.

Did I miss anybody from Brawl?

 

[Oasis_S]

A little logo for Ridley? Oh no no no no. Ridley's logo would be too big to implement in Smash Bros.

C'MON MAN SURELY IT WOULDN'T BE MORE THAN 100x100 PIXELS...

 

[bobadz]

Also getting back on the mewtwo topic

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/696959-pokemon-x/65907133

99% confirmed to be a new forme now.

 

[peeup]

Also getting back on the mewtwo topic

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/696959-pokemon-x/65907133

99% confirmed to be a new forme now.

Aww and I was looking forward to having Mewthree in Smash.

That's alright, Mewtwo is way more badass than any other stupid form.

 

[FalKoopa]

99% confirmed to be a new forme now.

I'm relieved.

all the way!

 

[κomıc]

Well, the whole thing about character's having their own icon is nice but really, it's not supposed to really represent the character but the series they came from and represent. Luigi has yet to really make a name for himself but maybe it could change with Dark Moon. I doubt it.

Always found it interesting how Metaknight was the only one with a alternate theme even though the Kirby characters share the same logo. It does compliment Metaknight's... swag... though. Mewtwo was apparently getting his own arranged theme too... Would be awesome to hear that.

 

[BKupa666]

So now that Mewthree is 99% a form, we can be sure that Mewtwo is 99% returning, as if we weren't already sure.

One thing, though, if Mewthree is an evolution of Mewtwo and Mewtwo transforms into him for a Final Smash, would this still be in character, considering he'd have to "devolve" back after a set time and Pokemon don't devolve?

 

[Deleted member]

I have been looking back at the posts since I left for vacation, and I have to say, I'm frigging disappointed.
After posting THIS:

I question the whole "if Sakurai had his way, there would be more" thing for Brawl after reading through a presentation he had made years ago.
From what was discussed, the entire roster concept had been "finalized" as early as July 7, 2005 with the sole exception of Sonic's addition in early 2007. I put "finalized" in quotations, as it meant no further additions (except again, Sonic), since it quite obviously was not the final list of characters in general, when you consider that Diddy/Dixie eventually became Diddy alone due to complications, and according to another interview (same one that discussed Diddy/Dixie), Sakurai had a placeholder for a newer Fire Emblem character during that time, which would be filled by Ike later on.
This was to be done as a failsafe because later additions (such as Sonic) would cause difficulties in production.
Scrapping characters later on was apparently expected, as the the goal of the design was to incorporate as much as possible within the alloted time. As a result, late cuts would not cut into production schedule.
This is where we get to the Forbidden 7 (sans Dixie Kong) as well as Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf. They were all towards the end of the character data for a reason; they would be among the first to be axed if time would not allow all the characters.
Source: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/15390
It also has quite a bit of other interesting information.


Another thing I inadvertedly gathered from this is that since he already had a general idea for Brawl's roster even before the game had been officially shown off to the public, none of Brawl's polling had any effect on the roster except for one thing; Sonic. The fact that Sonic was the most requested character (and wasn't within Sakurai's initial layout) made him the optimal choice for an exceptional late addition.
(I wonder then, if Smash 4's roster is finalized by now as well?)

I see people trying to claim a concept about how Starfy was scrapped for Squirtle, who took some of Starfy's leftover moves and of all things, claiming Wolf was a last minute add-on to the Roster.
....how in the **** does that make any sense?

The concept of the Roster was finalized long before development began with the complete expectation that some characters would have to be axed due to not fitting within the time allowed for their development (this is why we have a select few veterans after R.O.B. in the data as well as some lower priority Newcomers following them). This means, little Squirtle was already going to be in Brawl before he was even programmed, meaning he couldn't possibly have taken the place of poor Starfy, who was alas, not actually planned to begin with (meaning the placement of Starly's/Stapy's trophy was one of the many miniscule errors within Brawl).
As for Wolf, for all we know, he could have been a late addition to the game itself, but he was NOT a last minute addition to the Roster. The only late addition to the Roster that hadn't already been planned for was Sonic in 2007. Everyone else, including the scrapped characters as well as Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf, had their places by July 7, 2005.



EDIT: On another note, it is safe to assume that Smash 4's Roster had been "finalized" by this point in time.

 

[Curious Villager]

So now that Mewthree is 99% a form, we can be sure that Mewtwo is 99% returning, as if we weren't already sure.

One thing, though, if Mewthree is an evolution of Mewtwo and Mewtwo transforms into him for a Final Smash, would this still be in character, considering he'd have to "devolve" back after a set time and Pokemon don't devolve?

I think it would be more along the lines of a transformation like Deoxys and his formes etc rather than a proper evolution.

If it was an evolution I think they would go for the newer form though.

 

[Ben Holt]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If Mewtwo's not in smash 4, I'll be pissed.
...Again...

I have been looking back at the posts since I left for vacation, and I have to say, I'm frigging disappointed.
After posting THIS:


I see people trying to claim a concept about how Starfy was scrapped for Squirtle, who took some of Starfy's leftover moves and of all things, claiming Wolf was a last minute add-on to the Roster.
....how in the **** does that make any sense?

The concept of the Roster was finalized long before development began with the complete expectation that some characters would have to be axed due to not fitting within the time allowed for their development (this is why we have a select few veterans after R.O.B. in the data as well as some lower priority Newcomers following them). This means, little Squirtle was already going to be in Brawl before he was even programmed, meaning he couldn't possibly have taken the place of poor Starfy, who was alas, not actually planned to begin with (meaning the placement of Starly's/Stapy's trophy was one of the many miniscule errors within Brawl).
As for Wolf, for all we know, he could have been a late addition to the game itself, but he was NOT a last minute addition to the Roster. The only late addition to the Roster that hadn't already been planned for was Sonic in 2007. Everyone else, including the scrapped characters as well as Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf, had their places by July 7, 2005.

Except Sonic, which is why Brawl was delayed a ****ton of times.

 

[Deleted member]

"The only late addition to the Roster that hadn't already been planned for was Sonic in 2007."
Yeah, already said that.

 

[Ben Holt]

Oops. Sorry. I skim more than I read. Guess that's why I was failing English until recently.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Honestly, I never take most of these "x character might have been planned for Melee/Brawl" rumors seriously at all

I remember when people were saying Pit and Peach were planned for 64, and Plusle and Minun were planned for Brawl

And KomicTurtle, I love your avi lol

 

[Ben Holt]

The characters that are partially programmed into Brawl are: Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Toon Zelda, Roy, and Dixie Kong.
The Plusle and Minun rumor came from a scrapped piece of menu named some thing like "Plu" and "Min", so people loosely translate that as "Plusle and Minun were planned for Brawl."
This is just what I've gathered over the years. If you want to look into it, that's what the internet is for.

 

[ChronoBound]

Onto another topic, how popular was Sonic before Snake's reveal? We know that Sonic was by far the most wanted character after Snake's reveal, but I'm not sure how popular he was before third-parties were considered a realistic outcome.

People threw rocks at you if you suggested third-party characters prior to Brawl's unveil. However, among people who thought there should be no such limits, Sonic was the most common third-party character to be suggested. I don't think he was in the Top 10 most wanted characters prior to Brawl's unveil (I think the Top 8 consisted of Wario, Ridley, Meta Knight, Pit, King Dedede, Diddy Kong, Wolf off the top of my head, Isaac was in the Top 10 too as well, though after the rest of those guys, so either 9th or 10th).

 

[Vintage Creep]

About the icons for the characters, I'd like every one to have his own icon. Just because.

 

[FalKoopa]

I tried Google Translate on "Pra Mai" from English to Japanese and then back to English. The result - "My Plastic." lol

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Ben Holt- Hmmm that's interesting, I never heard that one before

The menu rumor

About Doc though, isn't that just his Melee data carried over into Brawl? Or so I've heard

 

[Swamp Sensei]

@Ben Holt- Hmmm that's interesting, I never heard that one before

The menu rumor

About Doc though, isn't that just his Melee data carried into Brawl? Or so I've heard

A little more than that. He had individual victory files so he got a little farther than just a port.

 

[bobadz]

People threw rocks at you if you suggested third-party characters prior to Brawl's unveil. However, among people who thought there should be no such limits, Sonic was the most common third-party character to be suggested. I don't think he was in the Top 10 most wanted characters prior to Brawl's unveil (I think the Top 8 consisted of Wario, Ridley, Meta Knight, Pit, King Dedede, Diddy Kong, Wolf off the top of my head, Isaac was in the Top 10 too as well, though after the rest of those guys, so either 9th or 10th).

Wow 7 of the top 8 got in. That's impressive. Also Chrono, do you remember how chaotic it got? I only remember your warning about the leaked roster.

 

[Curious Villager]

I tried Google Translate on "Pra Mai" from English to Japanese and then back to English. The result - "My Plastic." lol

So... Sakurai's plastic was supposed to be playable in smash? Well then...

Spoiler

Anyway's. Characters getting their own icons and individual victory tunes would be a nice touch though.

 

[Deleted member]

@Ben Holt: Well, the file name was "pra_mai", and while there is logical reason to believe it IS Plusle and Minun, there is also logical reason to believe it isn't.

FOR:
-Pichu is not in the data. Plusle and Minun would serve as reasonable replacements, just like Toon Link does for Young Link.
-Plusle is "Prasle" in Japanese, and Minun can sometimes be "Mainun".
-"Pra" and "Mai" are supposedly common nicknames for the two in Japan.

AGAINST:
-Romanized, they are together either "Prasle and Minun" or "Purasuru and Mainun". This means two different Romanizations are being used if the file is theirs.
-They are one file. The Ice Climbers have separate effect folders (Popo and Nana), and even Diddy and Dixie have separate folders. Why would Plusle and Minun share one?
-Why are their file names Romanized to begin with? Lucario isn't "Rukario", Mewtwo isn't "Myuutsu", etc.
-Supposedly, "pra_mai" can translate to "Each player" through Japanese translation, meaning it is the Random selection. (Though this one is bullcrap in itself, since:
a. Romanization conflict again. "player" is "pureya" or "preya". There is no "pra". "mai" is "each" though, so that part's true.
b. What would a Random selection box be doing in the character effects data? If anything, if it was "each player", then it would pretty much be general effects that every character shares.
c. Why would it be Romanized Japanese to begin with, instead of something like "common" if it is the data that every character shares or "random" if it really was the Random select?)

So really, no one know WHAT in the Hell "pra_mai" is, and we are very likely to never know. Though it doesn't seem likely to be Plusle and Minun or Random.
It could be codename for something, seeing as there are some file names that do not match the actual names of the character.

@Swampy: Actually, Doc didn't have his own, it was one of the missing ones.
However, there was a placeholder spot for him, considering that one of the missing files is inbetween Roy's unused theme and Toon Link's unused theme, which could only be for a low priority Melee Newcomer such as Doc.

 

[Oasis_S]

About Doc though, isn't that just his Melee data carried over into Brawl? Or so I've heard

One thing I find funny is that Sakurai said early on there would definitely be cuts, so its silly that some people think if he had his way then everyone would have returned except for Pichu.

 

[Deleted member]

@Yuii


I also wanna add that "pra" is impossible to write in Japanse, two consonants can't go together like that. That would actually be an incorrect interpretation of the Japanese form. "Purasuru" is the correct Romanization.

Anyway, a little off-topic, but anyone here ever play Touhou Project?

Would you recommend any in particular?

Never played any of them, but I've been aware of them for a while, and well, the music is awesome so I wanna check them out. Have a listen:

 

[FlareHabanero]

We might as well ask why the Falchion is the Fire Emblem icon. It's the dragon on the title screen that shows up a lot.

I presume it's mainly because the Falcion is Marth's signature weapon, who was originally planned as the only Fire Emblem character in Melee before the last minute clones came in. Since then it pretty much stuck as the icon of the Fire Emblem series for Super Smash Bros.

 

[Deleted member]

One thing I find funny is that Sakurai said early on there would definitely be cuts, so its silly that some people think if he had his way then everyone would have returned except for Pichu.

Only two characters were cut for the sake of being cut; Pichu and Young Link. The other four (Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario) were all planned to return, but were lower priority so that if there had to be later cuts because time would not allow everyone, they would be among the first to go. Jigglypuff managed to survive; the other three did not.
I would say that even if all four managed to avoid the dreaded time issue, that would still mean that there would have "definitely been" cuts from the transition from Melee to Brawl due to Pichu and Young Link being gone no matter what.

@Yuii


I also wanna add that "pra" is impossible to write in Japanse, two consonants can't go together like that. That would actually be an incorrect interpretation of the Japanese for. "Purasuru" is the correct Romanization.

There we go; further support as to why "pra_mai" is not likely to be Plusle and Minun. Thanks for that find.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Interesting note at the end of the article Golden shared. It said Sakurai would have liked to have DLC but the wii wasn't capable of it.

To me that's DLC confirmed for SSB4. Although most people already assumed it would happen anyways.

 

[Deleted member]

There we go; further support as to why "pra_mai" is not likely to be Plusle and Minun. Thanks for that find.

Well, here, this kinda shows what I mean.

There is no "p'' or "pr" in Japanese.

A shortened form of Plusule Minum in Japanese would be "puramai" Not "Pramai"

 

[FlareHabanero]

So the ultimate question is what the hell is "pra_mai"? My Japanese is absolutely atrocious, so I would not know in that department in terms of romanizations and stuff. I think Golden mentioned that it could of been an Animal Crossing character, but I honestly don't have a clue.

 

[FalKoopa]

About DLC, I'd like to know whether by DLC he meant DownLoadable Content (stages, songs, trophies and the like) or DownLoadable Characters, and if characters, DownLoadable Clones.

 

[ChronoBound]

Wow 7 of the top 8 got in. That's impressive. Also Chrono, do you remember how chaotic it got? I only remember your warning about the leaked roster.

It got really bad. Initially when Brawl was first unveiled, over half of the suggestions I saw were for third-party characters. Heck, there was even a significant minority that believed that we would receive more third-party characters than Nintendo newcomers. Sakurai quickly squashed that when he said that there would only be one or two more third-party characters after Snake.

However, even after the third-party character thing wore off things still got pretty bad due to a misinterpretation of Sakurai's various statements. For example, people misinterpreted Sakurai's reasoning for adding Zero Suit Samus (that Smash had few female characters so it was good to add another female newcomer) as him saying/meaning that he would go out of his way to add female newcomers.

There was also a lot of people who liberally applied Sakurai's statement of "there will be cuts". You had people saying that Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Falco, Mewtwo, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Sheik, Ness, and Jigglypuff would be cut.

There was also basically a lot of character cults running around as well. The Ashley fanbase literally exploded out of nowhere simply due to the "Ashley's song" Dojo update. In general character fanbases were extremely fanboyish and scary, particularly the ones that were among the less likely to get in. It was horrible.

I can't really think of a really fanboyism fanbase this time around. There is enthusiastic support for Ridley, Mewtwo, Mega Man, and K. Rool, but aside from those four its pretty much it (probably Waluigi as well). Little Mac, Isaac, Palutena, and Roy are among the most wanted characters this time around, yet don't really have loud supporters.

However, I am thinking we will probably see a return to craziness once Smash 4 is formally unveiled.

 

[Curious Villager]

Perhaps Pra_Mai could be a character from a franchise that never made it outside Japan that we don't know about? I honestly have no idea... >_>

 

[FalKoopa]

The Ashley fanbase literally exploded out of nowhere simply due to the "Ashley's song" Dojo update.

Lol.

By the way, were people really expecting another Wario newcomer for Brawl?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Perhaps Pra_May could be a character from a franchise that never made it outside Japan that we don't know about? I honestly have no idea... >_>

Who's Pra_May?

The problem with "pra_mai" is that there is absolutely no clue as to what it is. Hell, it could even not be a name for a character at all but rather a codename, kind of like how in Melee some files for Roy are referred to as "fireemblem".