Rosalina up tilt kills at 19% ?!

[gameplayzero]

http://youtu.be/tppAArT-gdU

I was killed at 19% from her uptilt (died at 30%).

Full video here:

http://youtu.be/qiEmmE9PUm4


I know it doesn't actually kill at 19% normally but it is funny nonetheless.

 

[Baskerville]

Luma must've been secretly training with Sagat.
Or
You must've been holding up.

 

[Steam]

was it crit gear or damage ratio or what?

 

[Parcheesy]

Luma must've been secretly training with Sagat.
Or
You must've been holding up.

Still...seems like a hell of a thing to die for at 19%. I don't know if there's even a fully charged up smash that will kill at 19%, even while holding up. The whole thing seems fishy.

 

[gameplayzero]

was it crit gear or damage ratio or what?

For glory. I left the full video in first post just in case. If you want me to take a pic of the replay in the vault I can once i'm done working. No doubt everyone is skeptical after something like this lol.

Luma must've been secretly training with Sagat.
Or
You must've been holding up.

If luma trained with sagat I would main rosalina in a heart beat.

 

[Baskerville]

Still...seems like a hell of a thing to die for at 19%. I don't know if there's even a fully charged up smash that will kill at 19%, even while holding up. The whole thing seems fishy.

Yeah. While sweetspot U-tilt with Luma does have high knockback, it isn't so strong that it can kill at such a low percent without some kind of directional input.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's the rage effect.

For some reason, Rosalina's U-Air and U-Tilt is ridiculous combined with the rage effect. I don't actually know why it is, but even D1 posted a video on his Facebook showing a similar thing with the U-Air.

https://www.facebook.com/Esports.D1/posts/1574928036075702

 

[Steam]

The fact that this is legit then makes this all the more hilarious

edit: especially when you keep in mind that jr. is a heavyweight character when he has his car, and the fact that the move hit him where it probably shouldn't have ala snake u-tilt

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeah, the rage effect is something I have been less conscious of lately, so when stuff like that happens, I am always just laughing before I realise what I actually did.

 

[Parcheesy]

Trying to recreate this myself and having a few issues. Is there any sort of bonus that would cause a move to have more knockback then when you've just spawned? A "fresh" up tilt is failing to kill Bowser Jr DI'ing up at 50%, while the Rosalina is at 120%.

Edit: Got a star KO at 60ish as Bowser Jr when I held up a jumped. It's actually pretty tough to test solo with a 3DS and a gamepad. ;p

 

[drLemons]

Like, screw Diddy Kong. dThrow into uAir is so overdone at 80%. uTilt at 20% is where it's really at.

Let me just assess what happened in the video.

1. Rosalina and Luma land in front of Bowser Jr.
2. Bowser Jr. starts his fSmash but it doesn't come out yet, it charges for one or two frames.
3. Luma's uTilt connects with Rosalina having 110% damage.
4. Bowser Jr. is KOed off the top

Note how Jr.'s flight curve is perpendicular to the stage, meaning that DI was not involved, so I am guessing you used the C-Stick for this smash attack.

Also note the two highlighted parts. Luma's uTilt is notorious for having an extremely high base knock back but low knock back growth. If you hit a fighter who is charging their smash attack, the knock back from the attack will be multiplied by some value, which goes for all characters. The already huge base knock back on Luma's uTilt gets multiplied and KOs extremely early. This is also seen in the old Chiko Special videos where a Donkey Kong charged an fSmash on top of Luma and he got KOed by uTilt as well. I did this on a Ganondorf, too, same situation.

In fact, I just tested this consistently in training mode. Turn the damage up to like 56% and have Bowser Jr. charge his fSmash and let Luma hit him during the first few frames. He'll get KOed off the top, but if he doesn't charge an attack, the knock back sends him just barely to the top of the screen.

In training mode, there is neither rage nor the bonus from using a fresh move, so essentially, Rosalina having 110% damage and likely using Luma's uTilt for the first time in a while caused you to get KOed at a ridiculously low percentage because it just so happened to connect during your charging an fSmash for the smallest moment.

So yeah, basically if Rosalina gets a hard read on your smash attack nearby, Luma can KO you for it if you don't release it fast enough.

Slight update: For comparison, if this uTilt hits without Jr. charging an attack, it KOs at 132%. Quite the difference.

 

[Parcheesy]

Darn, you beat me by 4 minutes. This is the first time I've ever heard of that knockback multiplier for hitting people out of smash attacks; it's definitely something good to know.

 

[Steam]

that would explain a ton if that's true. Is there a source for that?

 

[ChikoLad]

So now we just need to figure out U-air, since that didn't involve a Smash Attack. Unless it really was just rage in that case.

 

[Parcheesy]

that would explain a ton if that's true. Is there a source for that?

I can't speak for him, but I just did it in a match with two controllers. Knockback multipliers are certainly a thing ( confirmed for Jr's forward smash at least ). As for the up airs...I think it's just strong base knockback paired with the ability to double jump so high into the air. *shrug*

 

[icraq]

so is utilt a sort of counter move? this is weird. if anyone is awake right now i'm willing to test this on 3ds

edit: testing utilt a bit.. doesn't appear the knockback on luma's utilt stales. just using regular smash mode, not training mode. rage definitely boosts utilt it seems

edit 2: tested with a person... this is a legit strat on every character in the roster. it's insane.

edit 3: can kill heavies around 20% on the low platform on FD, even if they're not charging an Fsmash, as long as you have over 100% or so. hitting while they're charging a smash attack makes it insanely easy to kill with, which i never knew about

 

[Iron Kraken]

Given that I KOed my friend at 10% with U-Air... yes, 10% (14% including the damage from the hit), I can believe this.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

so is utilt a sort of counter move? this is weird. if anyone is awake right now i'm willing to test this on 3ds

edit: testing utilt a bit.. doesn't appear the knockback on luma's utilt stales. just using regular smash mode, not training mode. rage definitely boosts utilt it seems

edit 2: tested with a person... this is a legit strat on every character in the roster. it's insane.

edit 3: can kill heavies around 20% on the low platform on FD, even if they're not charging an Fsmash, as long as you have over 100% or so. hitting while they're charging a smash attack makes it insanely easy to kill with, which i never knew about

Wow. Does it kill even with DI?

 

[icraq]

Wow. Does it kill even with DI?

if you DI her utilt left or right it extends the survival rate by about 10%. we tried it with DI, without, and with straight up/down DI (which did nothing)

needs more testing, i wasnt writing everything down so the numbers are all general

 

[icraq]

here's a new thought:

if we can get bonus knockback on people when they're charging smash attacks, perhaps it's not the charging animation itself, maybe it's just hitting someone when they're doing any attack (tilt, smash, aerial, etc).

maybe that's why uair kills at low percents, maybe it's because they are inputting an attack and getting hit immediately after. that combined with the high base knockback on uair and possibly rage effect.. so perhaps characters with long lasting nairs are more vulnerable to dying to uairs off the top?

on a side note, i'm finding utilt is not the easiest move to land. it should be high priority, but the way luma works with priority i have no freaking idea.

and one more side note, anyone notice the utilt in the video did 10%? what's up with that? i've only ever seen it do 8% fresh.

 

[MezzoMe]

This has always been a thing, IIRC, hitting someone charging a Smash attack increases the knockback by 20%
Rage can add up to 15% to a move's knockback, though it's unknown where this mechanic is in the knockback formula.
I reccall Mew2King posting a video of Uair killing at 60% near the blast line.

 

[gameplayzero]

This has always been a thing, IIRC, hitting someone charging a Smash attack increases the knockback by 20%
Rage can add up to 15% to a move's knockback, though it's unknown where this mechanic is in the knockback formula.
I reccall Mew2King posting a video of Uair killing at 60% near the blast line.

Considering people's reactions to this, I can't say this is a common thing lol (especially with how heavy bowser jr is).

Though I forgot to mention that my smash attack wasn't being charged. The frames for it are fairly long, and I only ever charge a smash attack on shield breaks or obvious punishes. Now if by "charged smash attack" you guys mean all the active frames for the move then forgive me. I was using the c-stick for a quick smash attack like dr.lemons mentioned above.

 

[icraq]

Though I forgot to mention that my smash attack wasn't being charged. The frames for it are fairly long, and I only ever charge a smash attack on shield breaks or obvious punishes. Now if by "charged smash attack" you guys mean all the active frames for the move then forgive me. I was using the c-stick for a quick smash attack like dr.lemons mentioned above.

This further confirms my suspicion that hitting your opponent while they're in some phase of attacking, whether it be aerial, tilt, smash, etc, increases the knockback. Probably windup time. Can't say for certain but I'm leaning more towards that being the case

 

[Zonderion]

This further confirms my suspicion that hitting your opponent while they're in some phase of attacking, whether it be aerial, tilt, smash, etc, increases the knockback. Probably windup time. Can't say for certain but I'm leaning more towards that being the case

I wish I had saved the footage of a fight I had against fox. For Glory, Fox's second stock: I do a few jabs, and then get a grab. Up-Throw -> Up-Tilt -> jump -> Up-air -> second jump -> Up-Air (FTW). I could not tell if Fox was trying to perform an aerial, but my gut instincts is that he was going for a Down-Air when I connected with my last Up-Air to win the game. At MOST, Fox probably had about 40% damage after the last Up-Air landed.

Is that normal for Fox to die that early after up-throw, up-tilt and two up-airs? If not, then I would say your suspicions are correct, sir!

 

[DrinkingFood]

Just fyi here's been knockback multipliers for being hit out of a smash attack since at least melee