inconspikuous
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2006
- Messages
- 314
(Thread Updated: 10/25/2015)
Update Notes:
You can 'reverse' your K.O. Punch in many ways, as you will see. IMO, some ways are much easier/more consistent/more practical than others, but they are all very situational, and you shouldn't be going for these unless you are absolutely beast with your execution. At best, you will catch your opponent with the K.O. Punch. At worst, you will Side-B to your death, or whiff and get punished...to your death. lol. Either way, you will probably lose your stock if you can't perform these with close to 100% consistency and you're still fishing for them. Oh, and a final note, these will probably not work very well online due to input lag and the precise nature of each input.
A few notes as we begin. First, these are the only ways to reverse your K.O. Punch that I know of -- they're not from developer notes, pro tips, or anything, just lab work. If you know of other ways, please let me know and I can add them. Second, it is extremely unfortunate that none of the 'inputs' are exactly the same, so the muscle memory won't be the same for every reversal. In other words, the reversal you choose is context specific, and the inputs are different for different situations, so if you accidentally try one and it wasn't the right context it will not work. Last, unsurprisingly, you can practice all of these without having KO punch activated, so in the videos you will see me going for reversed straight lunges until the KO gauge is full. For ease of explanation, I will explain the inputs as if Little Mac is facing right and wants to K.O. behind him.
Alright enough talk, here's the goods:
Reverse 1: The Turn-Around K.O. Punch
Pros:
As you can see from the first few seconds of the video, if you mess up the input, you will usually get:
Pros:
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
Pros:
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
Pros:
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
Pros:
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
Pros:
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
Pros:
If you mess up either input, you will usually get:
Update Notes:
- Reversal 7/8: Out-of-Roll B-Reverse and U-Turn (Turn-Around) KO added. Gavi1195 explained another way to reverse the KO punch. It works because you are basically buffering the two required inputs in the endlag of your roll. Although they are different inputs, I did not make separate entries because the videos would look exactly the same.
You can 'reverse' your K.O. Punch in many ways, as you will see. IMO, some ways are much easier/more consistent/more practical than others, but they are all very situational, and you shouldn't be going for these unless you are absolutely beast with your execution. At best, you will catch your opponent with the K.O. Punch. At worst, you will Side-B to your death, or whiff and get punished...to your death. lol. Either way, you will probably lose your stock if you can't perform these with close to 100% consistency and you're still fishing for them. Oh, and a final note, these will probably not work very well online due to input lag and the precise nature of each input.
A few notes as we begin. First, these are the only ways to reverse your K.O. Punch that I know of -- they're not from developer notes, pro tips, or anything, just lab work. If you know of other ways, please let me know and I can add them. Second, it is extremely unfortunate that none of the 'inputs' are exactly the same, so the muscle memory won't be the same for every reversal. In other words, the reversal you choose is context specific, and the inputs are different for different situations, so if you accidentally try one and it wasn't the right context it will not work. Last, unsurprisingly, you can practice all of these without having KO punch activated, so in the videos you will see me going for reversed straight lunges until the KO gauge is full. For ease of explanation, I will explain the inputs as if Little Mac is facing right and wants to K.O. behind him.
Alright enough talk, here's the goods:
Reverse 1: The Turn-Around K.O. Punch
- Little Mac turns around and uses the KO punch. Simple, right? Not really.
- Input (while facing right): Quickly but only very slightly tilt control stick to opposite side (towards Mac's back) and release to neutral , then immediately press 'special' . You should see a frame or three of turnaround animation and then KO punch (or straight lunge) will come out in the opposite direction you were facing before the input.
Pros:
- Fewest inputs of all 'reverses'.
- Turn-around part is not too 'dangerous' (if you mess up the input, then you basically dash the opposite way.)
- Most 'simple' reverse conceptually.
- Potentially one of the quicker 'reverses', as the only 'waiting' is the turnaround frames before the KO punch.
- One of the most difficult to perform consistently, IMO. The slight tilt is _extremely_ small.
- If you accidentally press 'special' while still tilting, you will Side-B, potentially offstage.
- If you mess up the input and start dashing, you may get stuck in 'dash skid animation' and get punished.
As you can see from the first few seconds of the video, if you mess up the input, you will usually get:
- A straight lunge/KO punch in front of you. (You didn't input enough tilt in the opposite direction.)
- A reversed jolt haymaker. (You pressed 'special' before releasing the stick to neutral.)
- A dash in the opposite direction. (You put too much tilt in the opposite direction or didn't press 'special'.)
- While dropping shield, Little Mac releases the KO punch in the opposite direction.
- Input (while facing right): (While shielding ) Release shield, quickly press 'special' and then immediately smash control stick in the opposite direction (or if Mac is facing left ). You should see the shield drop animation then you should see Mac doing the punch in the opposite direction.
Pros:
- Easiest to learn, IMO.
- One of the most practical reverses, as you will probably be crossed up by aerials on shield quite a bit.
- Surprise factor, as opponents will probably not expect you to be able to B-Reverse KO OoS.
- Muscle memory will carry over to "Reverse 3: The Landing B-Reverse K.O. Punch".
- Less chance of Side-B coming out than Reverses 1 or 4.
- Less likely to mis-input as reverse Side-B than Reversal 6.
- If you mess up the input and whiff, your back is facing the opponent and you're stuck in endlag for a long time.
- If you accidentally press 'special' while still tilting, you will Side-B, potentially offstage.
- If you mess up the input and start dashing, you may get stuck in 'dash skid animation' and get punished.
- More likely to mis-input as forward KO punch than Reversal 6.
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
- A straight lunge/KO punch in front of you. (You didn't smash the control stick in time. You must smash the control stick in the opposite direction immediately after you press 'special'.)
- A roll backwards. (You didn't release the shield before pressing 'special' and smashing the control stick in the opposite direction. Wait a frame or two longer for the shield to drop before pressing 'special' and smashing the control stick.)
- A reversed jolt haymaker. (You pressed 'special' at the same time or after smashing the control stick. Make sure the input goes: release shield, then 'special', then smash control stick.)
- A dash in the opposite direction. (You pressed 'special' before the shield was dropped and so the only input registered was the smashed control stick. Wait a frame or two longer for the shield to drop before pressing 'special' and smashing the control stick.)
- While landing, Little Mac releases the KO punch in the opposite direction.
- Input (while facing right): (While landing) Quickly press 'special' and then immediately smash control stick in the opposite direction (or if Mac is facing left ). You will not see any frames of landing or turn-around when Mac is doing the KO punch.
Pros:
- A practical reverse, as you will likely get your KO punch while in the air stuck in hitlag/knockback, and will have a harder time landing as Mac.
- Surprise factor, as opponents will probably not expect you to be able to B-Reverse KO on landing.
- Muscle memory will carry over to "Reverse 2: The Out-of-Shield B-Reverse K.O. Punch".
- Less chance of Side-B coming out than Reverses 1 or 4.
- One of the more difficult 'reverses' to perform.
- Less control of KO punch effective range, as you must factor in where you will land when deciding to use it.
- If you mess up the input and start dashing, you may get stuck in 'dash skid animation' and get punished.
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
- A straight lunge/KO punch in front of you. (Either A: You did not land before pressing 'special' and smashing, so your input came out forward; or B: You probably didn't smash the control stick in time. You must smash the control stick in the opposite direction immediately after you press 'special'.)
- A reversed jolt haymaker. (You pressed 'special' at the same time or after smashing the control stick. Make sure the input goes: [land] then 'special', then smash control stick.)
- While dashing in one direction, Little Mac releases the KO punch in the opposite direction.
- Input (while facing right): (While dashing ) Smash , wait for 'squeak sound' and release to neutral , then quickly press 'jump' and immediately afterwards press 'special' (which I have set custom controls 'special' as ) which will jump cancel your dash skid into KO punch. You should hear the 'squeak sound' of the pivot and see a frame or two of turn-around animation, and then you should see Mac doing the punch in the opposite direction.
Pros:
- Flashiest of all the 'reverses'. (Most disrespectful?)
- Can beat out spotdodges if read correctly, as dashing frames, the turnaround, and 9-frame-ish startup of the KO punch will eat up the invincibility frames of the dodge.
- Can potentially beat out rolls towards you if read correctly, as the KO punch will still take a step forward in the opposite direction. Must space correctly.
- Surprise factor, as opponents will probably not expect you to be able to reverse a KO punch out of a dash.
- Muscle memory will carry over to Jump-Canceled KO Punches.
- Most 'commitment' of all the 'reverses'. You are vulnerable for the entire time before frame 9 ish of the KO punch.
- Can be difficult to perform if you do not know the timing of Jump-Canceled KO Punches.
- If you mess up the input you will probably Side-B and get punished.
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
- A reversed jolt haymaker. (You didn't release the control stick to neutral before pressing 'jump' and then 'special'. Make sure the control stick is neutral before pressing 'jump' and then 'special')
- A reverse jumping KO punch (You didn't press 'special' quickly enough after pressing 'jump.' You must press 'special' immediately after pressing 'jump.')
- While mid-air, Little Mac releases the KO punch in the opposite direction. Best used if right performed right before landing to get the 'grounded KO punch' knockback. S/O to @ sirchadakiss18 for explaining the new reverse KO input.
- Input (while facing right): (While mid-air) Tap control stick in the opposite direction (or if Mac is facing left ) and release back to neutral , then quickly press 'special' . You will not see Mac turn around until 'special' is pressed.
Pros:
- A practical reverse, as you will likely get your KO punch while in the air stuck in hitlag/knockback, and will have a harder time landing as Mac.
- Surprise factor, as opponents will probably not expect you to be able to Reverse a KO mid-air.
- IMO easier to do consistently than "Reverse 3: The Landing B-Reverse K.O. Punch" and just as effective.
- More generous input window between 'stick' and 'special' than the other reverses.
- If you mess up the input you will probably Side-B and get punished.
- Less control of KO punch effective range, as you must factor in where you will land when deciding to use it.
- If you perform too early before landing you may perform the 'aerial KO punch' and get that version's garbage knockback.
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
- A straight lunge/KO punch in front of you. (Either A: You held the control stick in the opposite direction too long. Aim for 'one frame'. It must be quickly tapped and returned to neutral before immediately pressing 'special'; or B: You didn't press 'special' quickly enough after releasing the control stick to neutral.)
- A reversed jolt haymaker. (You pressed 'special' at the same time or did not release the control stick back to neutral before pressing 'special'. Make sure the input goes: tap control stick, return to neutral, then 'special'.)
- While dropping shield, Little Mac releases the KO punch in the opposite direction. Using the tech from Reversal 5, I discovered you could do the same input OoS.
- Input (while facing right): (While in shield-drop lag) Tap control stick in the opposite direction (or if Mac is facing left ) and release back to neutral , then quickly press 'special' . You may see a frame of Mac turning around before KO punching.
Pros:
- One of the most practical reverses, as you will probably be crossed up by aerials on shield quite a bit.
- Surprise factor, as opponents will probably not expect you to be able to Turn-Around KO OoS.
- Muscle memory will carry over to "Reverse 5: The Mid-Air Turn-Around K.O. Punch".
- Less likely to mis-input as a forward KO punch than Reverse 2.
- You must be very quick and precise when acting in the shield drop lag buffer window by tapping in the opposite direction, then resetting to neutral and immediately pressing 'special', otherwise you will whiff and be stuck with a lot of endlag with your back facing the opponent.
- If you accidentally press 'special' while still tilting, you will Side-B, potentially offstage.
- If you mess up the input and start dashing, you may get stuck in 'dash skid animation' and get punished.
- More likely to mis-input as a reverse Side-B than Reverse 2.
If you mess up the input, you will usually get:
- A dash in the opposite direction. (You held the control stick in the opposite direction too long. Aim for 'one frame'. It must be quickly tapped and returned to neutral immediately before pressing 'special'.)
- A straight lunge/KO punch in front of you. (You smashed the control stick before your shield drop lag buffer would register the control stick direction. Wait a frame or two longer for the shield to drop before tapping the control stick for one frame, releasing to neutral, and immediately pressing 'special'.)
- A reversed jolt haymaker. (You pressed 'special' at the same time or did not release the control stick back to neutral before pressing 'special'. Make sure the input goes: release shield, tap control stick, return to neutral, then 'special'.)
- While in roll endlag, Little Mac buffers inputs to release a KO punch in the direction of his roll. Using the techs applied above, I discovered you could use either the B-reverse or the U-Turn inputs and get the same result. S/O to Gavi1195 for explaining the B-reverse out-of-roll input.
- 7. B-Reverse Input (while rolling right, intending to KO punch right): (While in roll endlag) Press 'special' and then immediately smash control stick in the direction of Mac's 'back' or in the direction rolled (or if Mac is rolling left ). You should see the Mac end his roll with his back towards the opponent, then you should see Mac doing the punch in the direction of his opponent.
- 8. U-Turn Input (while rolling right, intending to KO punch right): (While in roll endlag) Tap control stick in the direction of Mac's 'back' or in the direction rolled (or if Mac is rolling left ) and release back to neutral as quick as possible, then quickly press 'special' . You should see the Mac end his roll with his back towards the opponent, then you should see Mac doing the punch in the direction of his opponent.
Pros:
- Generous buffer window, so it is easy to learn either B-reverse or U-Turn inputs. Two of the easier KO reverses to learn, and preference for either the B-Reverse or U-Turn will allow for flexibility and consistency based on player preference.
- Surprise factor, as opponents will probably not expect you to be able to use KO punch out of a roll with your back towards them.
- Muscle memory will carry over from any B-reverse or U-Turn KO punch inputs.
- Very situational and one of the most impractical reverses. You commit to rolling into your opponent, and then commit to the 8-9 frames of start-up before the hitbox. (Since you are going to KO in the same direction you're moving, a jump-canceled KO punch out of dash would be much quicker.)
- Requires a hard read, where you expect your opponent will see you roll into them and attempt to roll behind your roll. Or a hard read where you expect that your opponent will not do anything but stay in shield while you roll in front of them.
- You must be very quick and precise when acting in the roll endlag buffer window when you input your tech, otherwise you will whiff and be stuck with a lot of endlag with your back facing the opponent.
- If you accidentally press 'special' while still tilting, you will Side-B, potentially offstage.
- Very likely to mis-input as a grounded Side-B (to your death) if your input is sloppy.
If you mess up either input, you will usually get:
- A reversed jolt haymaker. (For B-Reverse you pressed 'special' at the same time as your control stick direction, or you moved your control stick too early. For U-Turn you pressed 'special' at the same time or did not release the control stick back to neutral before pressing 'special'. Make sure the input goes: roll, tap control stick, return to neutral, then 'special'.)
- A straight lunge/KO punch in front of you, with the opponent behind you. (For B-Reverse either A: You did not input during the endlag buffer window when pressing 'special' and smashing, so your input came out forward; or B: You probably didn't smash the control stick in time. You must smash the control stick in the opposite direction immediately after you press 'special'. For U-Turn you smashed the control stick before your roll endlag buffer would register the control stick direction. Wait a frame or two longer for the roll to continue before tapping the control stick for one frame, releasing to neutral, and immediately pressing 'special'.)
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