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The Daitoryo for Smash 4 Thread. Goko; opponent wins game 4. (Disconfirmed)

Should the character be called "Napoleon" or "President" for the sake of this thread?


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Pacack

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Welcome to the Support Thread for Daitōryō!


Who is he?
Daitōryō is the character depicted on the front of the "Napoleon"-styled Hanafuda card decks, which were (and still are) the most popular Hanafuda decks Nintendo has ever made. He could be considered Nintendo's first "Mascot", as he was the (literal) face of Nintendo's first successful product.

I will be referring to him as "Daitōryō" from here on out for the sake of this thread, but be aware that, as it translates into "President" or "Napoleon", he could be known by any number of names if he was (theoretically) in Super Smash Brothers for Wii U and 3DS.

Why on Earth should I care about him?
Good question! This thread is working under the assumption that there will be another "historical" character in SSB4 (like Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B. before him), and is here for support towards his playability in that role. I do not consider him "likely", but he is my first choice for a history character and he is interesting enough that he might just become the same for you!

Arguments:

Daitōryō cannot be in because he did not originate from a video game!

For this argument, I would like to point towards a character that is already in Super Smash Brothers. R.O.B. was not a character that originated in a video game. He was a toy that came bundled with the N.E.S. that allowed Nintendo to start selling the N.E.S. on store shelves again. Napoleon, being another history character, is in a position that allows him to be playable. He is also debatably more important than even R.O.B., as he represents the very beginnings of Nintendo as a company.

Daitōryō has no moveset potential.

This is, quite simply, untrue. Daitōryō could easily have a moveset centered around Hanafuda.

Regarding the cards, from Wikipedia: "There are twelve suits, representing months. Each is designated a flower, and each suit has four cards. Typically, each suit will have two normal cards and two special cards."

These cards are as follows (information and images can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanafuda):


January, Matsu (, pine): Two Normals (1 point), one Poetry Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Crane and Sun (20 points)

Febuary, Ume (, plum blossom): Two Normals (1 point), one Poetry Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Bush-warbler in a Tree (10 points)

March, Sakura (, cherry blossom): Two Normals (1 point), one Poetry Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Camp Curtain (20 points)

April, Fuji (, wisteria): Two Normals (1 point), one Red Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Cuckoo (10 points)

May, Ayame (菖蒲, Iris): Two Normals (1 point), one Red Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Water Iris and Eight-plank Bridge (10 points)

June, Botan (牡丹, peony): Two Normals (1 point), one Purple Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Butterflies (10 points)

July, Hagi (, bush clover): Two Normals (1 point), one Red Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Boar (10 points)

August, Susuki (, Susuki grass): Two Normals (1 point), two Specials: Geese in Flight (10 points), Full Moon with Red Sky (20 points)

September, Kiku (, chrysanthemum): Two Normals (1 point), one Purple Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Poetry Sake Cup (10 points)

October, Momiji (紅葉, maple): Two Normals (1 point), one Purple Ribbon (5 points) and one Special: Deer and Maple (10 points)

November, Yanagi (, willow): One Red Ribbon (5 points) and three Specials: Lightning (1 point), Swallow (10 points), Ono noMichikaze ("Rainman") with Umbrella and Frog (20 points)

December, Kiri (, paulownia): Three Normals (1 point, one off-shaded), and one Special: Chinese Phoenix (20 points)

That's moveset potential that involves summoning animals (geese in particular could be an Up-Special), using plants, attacking with ribbons, and more (odd) stuff like summoning phoenixes and throwing saki cups!

Recolors (made by Zhadgon):


Movesets:

Pacack's Moveset:



Entrance Animation: General outline of character appears first, followed by the outline of the details, ending with Daitoryo being painted in. (Referencing the fact that all hanafuda cards were originally handcrafted by painting onto mulberry tree bark) OR A hanafuda card box drops from the sky and opens to release Daitoryo.


Properties: Height is roughly between Charizard’s and Samus’ heights. About as wide as Snake or Link at the widest point. Is somewhat lighter than would be expected, but not extremely so. Play style involves keeping the opponent at a distance with Daitoryo’s long-reaching moves.

Neutral Physical: Hits with pine branch for small damage. Only an AA combo, rather than an AAA combo. Does approximately 4% damage for the first hit and 6% for the second. Based off of basic pine cards from the December suit, only a double combo because there are only two commons in said suit)

Side Physical: Kicks the ground and sends a flurry of maple leaves forward. Has good range and may trip opponent. Does only 1% damage per leaf, but there are several leaves. Not the best knockback. (based off of the October Maple leaf commons)

Up Physical: Daitoryo waves some bush clover branches in a sweeping motion over his head (from front to back). Decent, but not amazing knockback that can be used for combos. Does about 9% damage. (based off of the July bush clover commons)

Down Physical: Causes a small peony bush to sprout directly in front of Daitoryo (butterflies fly out from it as well, but don’t do damage or interact with the opponent). Sends opponents almost directly upwards. Does approximately 11% damage and good knockback, but is predictable and has some frame lag. (based off of the June peony commons)

Dash Attack: Pulls out a chrysanthemum bouquet and swings it as he dashes (based off of the September chrysanthemums)

Up Smash: Thrusts an umbrella into the air and opens it (as it opens, a frog comes out for purely for humor’s sake). Does good damage and knockback, but has some beginning lag. (based off of Rain Man’s umbrella and frog)

Side Smash: Swings a fairly bulky paulownia branch forward at the opponent. Heavy damage and knockback. (based off of the January paulownias)

Down Smash: Makes tall susuki grass sprout from the ground on one side of him and a small willow tree on the other. The grass sends opponents diagonally up and away from Daitoryo, while the willow simply hits them upwards. (based off of the susuki grass and willow common cards)

Neutral Aerial: Daitoryo spins around (somewhat like Zelda's or Ness' nairs) in the air and irises fly out of his sleeves. Poor knockback and decent damage, but good range. (based off of the May irises)

Forward Aerial: Swings a large plain ribbon in front of him in an arch shape. It can hit easily, but is not very powerful. (based off of the ribbon cards)

Back Aerial: Snaps a large plain ribbon behind him like a whip. Hits very hard and with good range, but is extremely difficult to sweetspot. (based off of the ribbon cards)

Up Aerial: Butterflies fly out from out of Daitoryo’s sleeves and go straight upwards. They are hard to sweetspot, but they provide a decent killing move. Does only 3% damage and minimal knockback when not sweetspotted, but will do good damage with great knockback when they do.

Down Aerial: Hits whatever is in front of him with a plank from an eight plank bridge. Has spiking properties. (based on the May “animal” card)

Neutral Special: Throws poetry sake cup at the opponent. Does surprisingly high damage, but is very small and difficult to hit opponents with. (based off of the September poetry sake cup “animal” wildcard)

Side Special: Summons a boar, deer, and butterflies that run quickly as a herd across the stage until they disappears. High damage and knockback, but easily avoided, as they will only run straight. (based off of the July, October, and June animal cards and the Ino-Shika-Cho group.)

Up Special: Summons multiple types of birds that fly sporadically upwards and grabs onto a crane that lifts Daitoryo about as efficiently as Pit’s up special. Damage done to opponents depends on the birds that hit them. (based off of the various animal cards for January, February, April, August, and November.)

Down Special: Holds up the jinmaku (camp curtain) to absorb enemy projectiles. Does not deflect or heal the user. (based off of the March “bright” card)

Grab: Wisteria vines shoot out from Daitoryo's sleeves and ensnare the opponent. (based off of the wisteria cards)

Hit: The vines crush the opponent

Forward throw: Daitoryo throws the opponent with the vines and whips them quickly.

Back throw: Daitoryo throws the opponent over his shoulder.

Up-Throw: Daitoryo throws his opponent directly over his head and smacks him with the blue ribbon. (Reference to the blue ribbons)

Down Throw: Daitoryo releases his opponent and slaps them into the ground with the poetry ribbon. (Reference to the red poetry ribbons)

Final Smash: Summons Chinese Phoenix which attacks the entire stage with fire. The stage’s background becomes red with a completely white circle as the moon as this is happening. (Reference to the August and December Bright cards)


Tepig2000's Moveset:



Jab Combo - Slashes with a card held in his right hand, then does the same thing with his left hand.

Side Tilt - Wide card swipe.

Up Tilt - Uses a bush-warbler as a sword to hit upwards.

Down Tilt - Swipes a poetry ribbon next to the ground.

Side Smash - Transforms into a boar and jumps forwards.

Up Smash - Transforms into a deer and jumps upwards, hitting with his horns.

Down Smash - Spins holding an umbrella in his hands.

Neutral Aerial - Spins holding cards in both his hands.

Forward Aerial - Commands butterflies to fly forwards.

Back Aerial - Commads butterflies to fly backwards.

Up Aerial - Puts a barrel of sake upwards.

Down Aerial - Attacks with a water iris downwards.

Neutral Special - Poetry Ribbon

Daitoryo swipes a poetry ribbon in front of him. If you hit the enemy, you grab them and can rotate the analog stick to spin them and deal damage. Pressing any direction throws the enemy.

Side Special - Cuckoo

Daitoryo throws a cuckoo forwards. The cuckoo deals damage to enemies and can be killed, but is very powerful if it hits an enemy. If you try to reflect it, you only knock it back a bit and it continues flying, eventually damaging you.

Up Special - Flight With Geese

Daitoryo holds a geese and flies upwards with it. You can control it as much as Snake's Cypher, and it rises at about the same speed.

Down Special - Frog

Daitoryo transforms into a frog and swipes his tongue, then returns to normal. This knocks enemies upwards and sometimes causes them to trip.

Final Smash - Chinese Phoenix

Daitoryo calls the Chinese Phoenix to the stage, then the Phoenix launches a lot of giant fireballs into the stage. These do great damage and are almost a one-hit KO.


Roster Maker Icons (made by taoxadasa):


For MorbidAltruism

Signature Icons (Made by Zhadgon):




Fan Art:


By PixelPasta

By BridgesWithTurtles


Daitōryō Supporters (feel free to come up with a witty name):

Pacack (thread owner)
MorbidAltruism
SuperBrawler
BluePikmin11
FalKoopa
Stompman
Zhadgon
Tepig2000
Inawordyes
Mega Bidoof
Sobreviviente
Zzuxon
Chalphy
Keybladeguy
Zekersaurus
asia_catdog_blue
TheSmashBro123
Thrillhouse-vh.
TCT~Phantom
Zero2570
Elite Gaymer
WindozeNT
Smash Daddy
Sun & Moon
andimidna
StaffofSmashing
Brickbuild-san (Brickbuild101)
Haydossy
Phaazoid
 
Last edited:

N3ON

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Uhh... even as one of the original "mascots" of Nintendo, this Napoleon was clearly based on... Napoleon... so I don't think Sakurai would be overly-eager to include actual historical figures in Smash, even if he changed his name to President or something...

Better than Mr. Hanafuda though. :rolleyes:
 

Pacack

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Uhh... even as one of the original "mascots" of Nintendo, this Napoleon was clearly based on... Napoleon... so I don't think Sakurai would be overly-eager to include actual historical figures in Smash, even if he changed his name to President or something...

Better than Mr. Hanafuda though. :rolleyes:
This is a reasonable argument against the inclusion of Napoleon. However, as Napoleon's likeness is not copyrighted material and Napoleon is...well, dead, there's no legal issue with including him. The only problem would be if Sakurai sees it as an issue.

You should give credit to people who made the icons.

Also, Napoleon in case the President from Pikmin gets in as Assist Trophy or something.
I forgot to ask, would you like to be added to the list of supporters?
 

N3ON

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I think when you get to the point where (at least in the west) 99.9% of people playing would not know Napoleon's ties to Nintendo, it's just a better idea not to include him. I think Sakurai would recognize this.

It'd be hilarious if he made it... I'm sure he'd be the punching bag for many... but I mean... there's really no chance.
 

Pacack

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I think when you get to the point where (at least in the west) 99.9% of people playing would not know Napoleon's ties to Nintendo, it's just a better idea not to include him. I think Sakurai would recognize this.

It'd be hilarious if he made it... I'm sure he'd be the punching bag for many... but I mean... there's really no chance.
If he was attacking by summoning birds, frogs, lightning, flowers, trees, ribbons, and cups of tea, I'm pretty sure there would be no problem with him being mistaken for the real-life Napoleon.

Also, since you think it'd be hilarious, would you like to be added to the list of supporters?

And I would like to note, I realize he has no realistic chance, but I would like him, and he's not completely impossible. I mean...Mr. Game and Watch is a thing.
 

N3ON

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"Mr. Hanafuda" is not exactly the same character as "Napoleon". While this is debatable, it seems that at least one of the moderators finds this reasonable, and has not locked it yet.
Is this going to be Napoleon himself, or a deck of cards with limbs? Because if it's the latter a simple difference in name doesn't merit keeping this thread open.

If he was attacking by summoning birds, frogs, lightning, flowers, trees, ribbons, and cups of tea, I'm pretty sure there would be no problem with him being mistaken for the real-life Napoleon.
I'm pretty sure they'd still know it was Napoleon, they'd just question why he was doing so much random ****. It wouldn't make the ties to Nintendo any clearer.

Also, since you think it'd be hilarious, would you like to be added to the list of supporters?
No thanks, it'd be funny, but I don't actually want it to happen.

And I would like to note, I realize he has no realistic chance, but I would like him, and he's not completely impossible. I mean...Mr. Game and Watch is a thing.
Yeah, but Mr. Game & Watch, at least to my knowledge, has never been the monarch of France. :rolleyes:
 

Morbi

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You have been added. Want to try your hand at making a moveset? I won't stop you.
My imaginative side was desecrated when I discontinued art. Ever since I have stopped drawing, I have not been nearly as creative. So I might have to pass on that notion. However, I am eager to read what other people conceive.
 
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Better Hanafuda idea than "Mr. Hanafuda", but I'd rather not have a Napoleon lookalike in Smash.
(As for name, I vote for the original Japanese- Daitouryou (or Daitoryo).)

In essence, it shouldn't be Napoleon. Just use his likeness for a Hanafuda deck user. Sort of an original character, but also not (in the same vein as Mr. Game & Watch).
 

Pacack

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Is this going to be Napoleon himself, or a deck of cards with limbs? Because if it's the latter a simple difference in name doesn't merit keeping this thread open.
It's not a deck of cards with limbs. It is the literal character on front of the box of cards.

Yeah, but Mr. Game & Watch, at least to my knowledge, has never been the monarch of France. :rolleyes:
That could be the case, but that did not stop him from including what was literally named "Robot" (in Japan) and looked like a generic robot if you didn't read the trophies. The same would be true for Napoleon. He would appear to be Napoleon doing some ridiculous things until your read the trophies. He also would have a slightly different look from typical Napoleon, with a cell-shaded look resembling what is on the box of Hanafuda cards.

In the end, however, I respect your opinion, and will agree that Mr. Game and Watch was never the monarch of France :p

Better Hanafuda idea than "Mr. Hanafuda", but I'd rather not have a Napoleon lookalike in Smash.
(As for name, I vote for the original Japanese- Daitouryou (or Daitoryo).)

In essence, it shouldn't be Napoleon. Just use his likeness for a Hanafuda deck user. Sort of an original character, but also not (in the same vein as Mr. Game & Watch).
I was thinking that Daitouryou (or Daitoryo) would be the Japanese name only, myself, since the deck was renamed "Napoleon" in the English market when they tried (and failed) to get through. Thank you for your input, as I wouldn't mind your idea happening either.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

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Why not just merge all of this into a general "Hanafuda character" thread? It's the same basic idea, right? Support for a character to represent Hanafuda?

Also, I'd rather have the "Rain Man".


More visually distinct and more likely to be associated with the card game, I'd think. Plus, unlike Napoleon, Ono no Tōfū's likeness is not anywhere near as recognizable worldwide, and there's more artistic liberties to be taken, as the artwork of him on the cards is very stylized and probably doesn't resemble the actual person at all. There's really no way to know, as there's no really realistic or verifiably accurate portrait of him. People will see a cel-shaded man in robes holding an umbrella and think "Hey, that's interesting. I wonder where he came from." People see Napoleon throwing cards, and they'll never take their modern French history class seriously again.

As humorous as that would be.
 

Morbi

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Napoleon supporters should be called Nappas. Just because Nappa is the best DBZ character.

Or maybe Napopos. Just because Mr. Popo is the best DBZ character.

Maybe even Naps. Just because everyone loves to nap.

The best idea I could come up with would be... Jigglypuffs. Napoleon supporters should be Jigglypuffs.
 

N3ON

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It's not a deck of cards with limbs. It is the literal character on front of the box of cards.
Yeah, that's what I thought. Still thought I should check, glad that terrible idea hasn't spread. Well, due to his connections with Nintendo, I have no problem keeping this thread open, but if another Mod disagrees, it's their prerogative.

That could be the case, but that did not stop him from including what was literally named "Robot" (in Japan) and looked like a generic robot if you didn't read the trophies. The same would be true for Napoleon. He would appear to be Napoleon doing some ridiculous things until your read the trophies. He also would have a slightly different look from typical Napoleon, with a cell-shaded look resembling what is on the box of Hanafuda cards.
Right, but just because he had a generic name doesn't mean he was just some random robot, he did have pretty well-known (at least compared to Napoleon) ties to Nintendo, and only Nintendo. It's not quite the same situation, one is a character created by Nintendo, the other is a character used by Nintendo.

Not saying he couldn't work, I'm just saying... I don't think Sakurai would even ever attempt such a thing.

In the end, however, I respect your opinion, and will agree that Mr. Game and Watch was never the monarch of France :p
Good, I thought I might've missed a chapter in my history textbook or something. :troll:
 

Pacack

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Why not just merge all of this into a general "Hanafuda character" thread? It's the same basic idea, right? Support for a character to represent Hanafuda?

Also, I'd rather have the "Rain Man".


More visually distinct and more likely to be associated with the card game, I'd think. Plus, unlike Napoleon, Ono no Tōfū's likeness is not anywhere near as recognizable worldwide, and there's more artistic liberties to be taken, as the artwork of him on the cards is very stylized and probably doesn't resemble the actual person at all. There's really no way to know, as there's no really realistic or verifiably accurate portrait of him. People will see a cel-shaded man in robes holding an umbrella and think "Hey, that's interesting. I wonder where he came from." People see Napoleon throwing cards, and they'll never take their modern French history class seriously again.

As humorous as that would be.
I wouldn't mind this. I actually thought of it, but I just see Napoleon as more relevant since he's on the front of the box and is more recogniszable. I was honestly thinking he could be more of a recolor than anything else.

Right, but just because he had a generic name doesn't mean he was just some random robot, he did have pretty well-known (at least compared to Napoleon) ties to Nintendo, and only Nintendo. It's not quite the same situation, one is a character created by Nintendo, the other is a character used by Nintendo.

Not saying he couldn't work, I'm just saying... I don't think Sakurai would even ever attempt such a thing.
If he wouldn't, do you see him working with the name "Daitouryou" or as the "Rainman"?
 

N3ON

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If he wouldn't, do you see him working with the name "Daitouryou" or as the "Rainman"?
I think he could work, but I honestly think Nintendo would try to avoid referencing Napoleon specifically, so I do find "President" as the more likely name, though that's not really saying much.

But either way, I think the Rainman is a much better option. He's much more associated with Hanafuda, and there would be a lot of potential freedom with his implementation.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

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Too late.
Well, good thing I haven't decided on an area of focus for my major yet. I might have to take the Asian Civ route after seeing that.

As amazing as "Nappas" would be (truth: Nappa is the best DBZ character), I put forth "Card Captors". Oh, and I voted "Other," because I agree that "Daitoryo" would be the best name to use.
 
D

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@Pacack:
Yu-Gi-Oh! GX.

He's a parody of Napoleon, and is even named Napoleon in the original Japanese version. (In English, it's Jean-Louis Bonaparte, which is still a Napoleon reference due to the last name)
 

Pacack

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Well, good thing I haven't decided on an area of focus for my major yet. I might have to take the Asian Civ route after seeing that.

As amazing as "Nappas" would be (truth: Nappa is the best DBZ character), I put forth "Card Captors". Oh, and I voted "Other," because I agree that "Daitoryo" would be the best name to use.
I'm beginning to think that Daito(u)ryo(u) is the best name for him as well.
 

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Someone should make a thread for the ten lamest character ideas....
 

Pacack

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I have added Signature Icons to the thread and have changed the name to simply "Daitouryou", as that seems to be the most popular decision and I agree with it.
 

Pacack

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I apologize for this technically being a double post, but I have a question that will not get seen unless I post now.

Is there anyone here who would do character recolors and the more specific requests for the colors of said character? Is there a thread for that? If not, is there someone here who is skilled in that area?
 

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I apologize for this technically being a double post, but I have a question that will not get seen unless I post now.

Is there anyone here who would do character recolors and the more specific requests for the colors of said character? Is there a thread for that? If not, is there someone here who is skilled in that area?
I can try to do that but it will take me between this week and the next, if you have some colors in mind for the pic of the character that you want to choose it will be great (especially because I don´t know to well the object or the cards to take inspiration from them).
.n_n.
 

Pacack

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I can try to do that but it will take me between this week and the next, if you have some colors in mind for the pic of the character that you want to choose it will be great (especially because I don´t know to well the object or the cards to take inspiration from them).
.n_n.
Awesome! Thanks! I'll edit this post in a second with colors to be done.

(I apologize if this is not coherent, just ask if I've said something confusing)

White skin with a completely red top. Keep the hair black. (Based off of Ono no Michikaze)
Grey skin with the black parts still black, but with dark blue where the white is and a lightish blue for the ribbon. Change the hair color to either a grey, a very dark navy blue, or something else that matches the color scheme. (based off of the blue ribbon)
Completely white skin and red hair. White where the black is and black where the white is on the clothes, with red for the color of the tan frills and whatnot. (based off of the crane)
Yellow Skin with forest green where the black is and yellow where the white is, make the ribbon a brighter green and make the frills, buttons, and the like black. Make the hair the same shade as the main green. (based off of the bush-warbler in a tree)
Blue skin with yellow hair. Keep the white part of his clothing white, but change the black to yellow and the frills and whatnot to black. (based off of the water lily)
Red skin with red hair. Turn the black part blue and keep the white as is. Change the frills and the like to red, but make the award that is hanging from the ribbon blue (based off of the Chinese phoenix)

:D

(Again, ask if you have questions. It can be via this thread or not.)

Take your time on them.

Forgot; here's the thing to use as a base if you want:
 

FalKoopa

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I'd like to be added to the supporter's list. I like the idea of a character who uses cards for attacks, and this is a much better alternative to Mr. Hanafuda.
 
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