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Tru. Just don't sleep on either side regardless is all I'm saying really. Nothing more. =)
60:40 
Raziek
shrooby
and @
Smooth Criminal
.
65:35
Alright, so basically the matchup is SUPER terrible for Dedede.
Preface: My experience in this match-up comes from a combined 4 hours or so with @
It all comes down to one word. ARCFIRE!
Arcfire completely defines this matchup. Because Dedede's mobility is so bad, Arcfire is literally an all-purpose 'No.' button. You can throw it out in virtually ANY situation and it will be the correct decision, or at least tactically passable. Dedede simply cannot approach through it on the ground (he's too wide) and if he tries to jump over it, he's completely free to Robin jumping up and swinging a Fair (followed by Falling Nair) at him.
Boxing in close to mid-range with Dedede is pretty simple. If you're far enough away, you Arcfire. If you're close, you jab. Dedede is pretty free to either variant of jab, though he sometimes pops out of Wind Jab due to his floatiness, should you be using it at as an anti-air.
Air-to-air Dedede simply cannot compete with Fair/Uair. They have way too much disjoint for him to deal with due to his slow start-up and poor arc on Fair, and abysmal hitbox size on Nair. His Bair is passable, but quite slow and telegraphed, making it unreliable in general.
About the only time Dedede actually doesn't feel like his life is complete suffering is if he has Robin off-stage. Due to her lack of defense-oriented hitboxes on Elwind, she's actually pretty easy to edge-guard IF you can steal her double-jump. If she can hold that, she's fine and able to swat D3 away pretty easily with Fair or Uair. Unfortunately for Dedede, this aspect of the MU got even worse with patch 1.1, as Robin received significantly buffed control over her Elwind recovery in terms of her horizontal movement and ability to weave with it.
If Robin gets D3 offstage, you basically just lost the stock. Put down your controller, she's going to put Arcfire on the ledge and it will cover literally every option Dedede has. Her Levin sword aerials also mean D3's normally high survivability is significantly weakened, especially with the 1.1 damage buff to Fair. D3 is also vulnerable to ledge-trump Bair from Robin.
1.1 also brought a significantly faster Elthunder for dealing with D3 in neutral (which she already did just fine), and buffed the crap out of her reward off grab. I have to test exact percents, but the Checkmate (D-throw Uair) definitely works on Dedede, opening up a consistent kill off grab at around 100-110%.
This is all to say nothing of his susceptibility to Arcthunder combos, his incredibly large frame making him a gigantic Nosferatu target, and his inability to combat her in the long-range camp war that sometimes lets Dedede force his opponent to approach. He has basically nothing going for him in this match-up. Robin can play super straightforward and borderline brainless and he will struggle to cope with even the most basic of gameplans. (If Robin executes correctly)
My advice is that if you're fighting a competent Robin you should probably just pick a different character. I consider this MU a strong +2, borderline +3, and he's easily our best match-up other than possibly Ganondorf (w/o customs, Dropkick helps him a bit).
I.... think that about covers it.
Here's me fighting Shrooby or an hour and a half. (When I first started learning the MU) I start out doing a lot of experimenting with different customs/playstyles before I eventually realize he's just completely free to Arcfire in the later games and change my gameplan accordingly.
I won't say too much specifically about the MU since I like to wait until i personally play the top/at least top 3 player of char before I actual draw strict conclusions about a MU, but I have played a few robins and have won each time so I have a general feel for the MU and they also arcfire spammed. IMO shrooby played the Matchup pretty poorly after you adapted. Most Notably was a lack of patience lol/throwing out unsafe moves when he can be punished by your projetiles. I highly highly doubt this MU will be +2 for Robin, nevermind +3 at the highest level. Alot of the hits he was taking would be mitigated by simply walking and just waiting out the spam until DDD is in ftilt range where the pressure is now on robin to be safe and the DDD could act accordingly. This would also be easier offline obviously. But Robin's projectile spam shouldn't be difficult for DDD to deal with at all(offline) if you're just walking, Robin doesn't have great options to punish DDD for sitting in shield/powershielding or just waiting it out until his arcfire is gone for awhile since robin's run speed and grab range are crap. Its similar to how to properly play the snake mu in brawl. It calls for a long, boring match but DDD can def deal with the projectile spam on stage without it really affecting him too muchAlright, so basically the matchup is SUPER terrible for Dedede.
Preface: My experience in this match-up comes from a combined 4 hours or so with @
It all comes down to one word. ARCFIRE!
Arcfire completely defines this matchup. Because Dedede's mobility is so bad, Arcfire is literally an all-purpose 'No.' button. You can throw it out in virtually ANY situation and it will be the correct decision, or at least tactically passable. Dedede simply cannot approach through it on the ground (he's too wide) and if he tries to jump over it, he's completely free to Robin jumping up and swinging a Fair (followed by Falling Nair) at him.
Boxing in close to mid-range with Dedede is pretty simple. If you're far enough away, you Arcfire. If you're close, you jab. Dedede is pretty free to either variant of jab, though he sometimes pops out of Wind Jab due to his floatiness, should you be using it at as an anti-air.
Air-to-air Dedede simply cannot compete with Fair/Uair. They have way too much disjoint for him to deal with due to his slow start-up and poor arc on Fair, and abysmal hitbox size on Nair. His Bair is passable, but quite slow and telegraphed, making it unreliable in general.
About the only time Dedede actually doesn't feel like his life is complete suffering is if he has Robin off-stage. Due to her lack of defense-oriented hitboxes on Elwind, she's actually pretty easy to edge-guard IF you can steal her double-jump. If she can hold that, she's fine and able to swat D3 away pretty easily with Fair or Uair. Unfortunately for Dedede, this aspect of the MU got even worse with patch 1.1, as Robin received significantly buffed control over her Elwind recovery in terms of her horizontal movement and ability to weave with it.
If Robin gets D3 offstage, you basically just lost the stock. Put down your controller, she's going to put Arcfire on the ledge and it will cover literally every option Dedede has. Her Levin sword aerials also mean D3's normally high survivability is significantly weakened, especially with the 1.1 damage buff to Fair. D3 is also vulnerable to ledge-trump Bair from Robin.
1.1 also brought a significantly faster Elthunder for dealing with D3 in neutral (which she already did just fine), and buffed the crap out of her reward off grab. I have to test exact percents, but the Checkmate (D-throw Uair) definitely works on Dedede, opening up a consistent kill off grab at around 100-110%.
This is all to say nothing of his susceptibility to Arcthunder combos, his incredibly large frame making him a gigantic Nosferatu target, and his inability to combat her in the long-range camp war that sometimes lets Dedede force his opponent to approach. He has basically nothing going for him in this match-up. Robin can play super straightforward and borderline brainless and he will struggle to cope with even the most basic of gameplans. (If Robin executes correctly)
My advice is that if you're fighting a competent Robin you should probably just pick a different character. I consider this MU a strong +2, borderline +3, and he's easily our best match-up other than possibly Ganondorf (w/o customs, Dropkick helps him a bit).
I.... think that about covers it.
Here's me fighting Shrooby or an hour and a half. (When I first started learning the MU) I start out doing a lot of experimenting with different customs/playstyles before I eventually realize he's just completely free to Arcfire in the later games and change my gameplan accordingly.
While I understand what you're trying to get at, you can't really...... wait out Arcfire, so to speak. It doesn't fizzle, so if I throw it it's going to hit your shield or you have to risk trying to clank it at a safe distance w/ F-tilt or a Gordo. Even if you block it until it breaks, I can just hold the book as a threat to block any offense of Dedede's.
I didn't mean wait it out in that manner was referring to waiting until it breaks. I would have to play you to show you, but my point is at highest level robin's projectiles would basically never ever hit me if Im walking in neutral and Robin doesn't have the tools to punish me for just sitting in shield and waiting because of his terrible run speed and grab range. Dedede wouldn't be busting his to win in neutral. While the pressure "technically" would be coming from robin, it wouldn't really matter and regardless of how long it takes I could just do it until Im in a range thats favorable for DDD(basically Ftilt range). For example, the strategy im referring to wouldn't work vs a char like ZSS because of how fast she is and she has a tether grab.
Well I know you cant sit in shield but vs arcfire I would just rollback lol, it would basically be a stalemate, it would be long and boring but ultimately its what the matchup will probably come down to. Also how does the gordo vs arcfire work? When does it/doesn't it beat it?
Gordo plows through Arcfire, until the last launching hit. If the Gordo is inside the fire for the last few frames, it'll reflect. But it means you can actually sit just outside Arcfire range and throw Gordos. It leaves you far enough away to still shield/reflect Gordos in time, and pressure.
I wish you'd been in this thread the whole time to give more reasonable matchup numbers, lol. People don't seem to understand how bad a matchup had to be to be 65:35, let alone 70:30.
If we did that, what would Robin's remaining options be if (s)he wanted to reflect again?
It's entirely dependent on spacing and the moves used to reflect. If D3 does a catch reflect, that's punishable all day. But with a Dtilt/Nair reflect, Robin won't have options other than get hit or shield. However if it's spaced far enough away, the Gordo should disappear even if Robin reflects it (Gordos disappear after ~2-3 reflects, move dependent).
I don't think you can do that.
That's not how this works. Posts with little to no thought put into them are ignored. Don't give your arbitrary numbers with no backup
party pooper
lol. That would equal Sonic/ZSS/[insertrandomtoptierhere] level of difficulty and if anyone actually believes Robin is as tough as these characters then I'm at a loss for words. Yes Dedede is a bad character but he's not quite bad enough yet for Robin of all characters to invalidate him lol.
lol.
is a fun matchup. Yes he's faster, and can zone us out, but nothing he's got is too ridiculous, and he has to commit to his kill options. 55:45 
vs
Yeah alot of these are def off imo but we'll see. Getting more familiar with Mu's too, dont think sonic is a hard counter at all anymore probably more like 55:45, ive been having success playing the MU the way I did in brawl, basically becomes a chess match and have played more robins and def feel mu is probably even lol.
Hoh yeah, things are outdated, definitely.
55:45
65: 35 
