Radical's Radical Kingmaker { ASSASSINS WIN SOME RADICAL TIMES }

[RadicalRat]

I am opening up posting so we can discuss the way my error will be dealt with.

In the scum chat, they agreed on killing J toNight during the day.

So, I thought that taking away their NK would mend the balance of the game, and set things straight.


J seems convinced this is a terrible idea, so I'm opening up discussion about it.

Do you, the players, think this is reasonable?

 

[#HBC | J]

Dude, that is 100% the wrong way to go about it and could have waited until after the game had ended. You should not have revealed what the Mafia intended to do.

RadRat, stop posting in thread and continue to talk to me about things in PM over that of further hurting the game from the players that had signed up for it.

 

[Kaladin]

-Modkill was unreasonable
-J was going to be killed anyway

We still know the Doc didn't save J, we still know scum killed J, and we still get J's flip.

Rat did screw up, but this would make it no harm no foul, yes?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Either stick with the decision of modkilling J + continue the game regularly or end it now.

 

[RadicalRat]

Dude, that is 100% the wrong way to go about it and could have waited until after the game had ended. You should not have revealed what the Mafia intended to do.

RadRat, stop posting in thread and continue to talk to me about things in PM over that of further hurting the game from the players that had signed up for it.

I'm trying to fix the game to the best of my ability. The intention of scum to kill you would have been revealed anyway when they killed you, or when I posted an explanation of there not being a NK.


This is allowing the players who are still alive to decide if THEY think it's fair for the Assassins to get another kill toNight, or for things to be left as they are for the morning.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I am opening up posting so we can discuss the way my error will be dealt with.

No, we're not going to discuss anything. Especially not the rules of your game.

 

[RadicalRat]

No, we're not going to discuss anything. Especially not the rules of your game.

Alright. Both you and J don't agree with this discussion( And a few more in PM ), and I value your opinions as experienced players.


I'm sorry everyone...
I find my heart clashing with what I'm being told is the "right" decision, and I've only made things worse in here sense modkilling J.


The damage has been done, and the game will proceed as normal.

 

[RadicalRat]

VILLAGERS! GATHER QUICKLY!

I FOUND.... SLICKWYLDE DEAD IN HIS HOME!

I was just popping by for a routine visit, and... he had been STABBED! With his dying breath, he told me SangfroidWarrior was to be the new King. I suppose that means he was the Kingmaker... a grave loss to this town indeed.

SANGFROID WARRIOR, PLEASE EXECUTE THE EVILDOER RESPONSIBLE!

By my watch, today ends by Friday! That's not much time, but I have faith in you, your highness!

 

[RadicalRat]

SlickWylde has been killed by assassins.
His role was Kingmaker

SangfroidWarrior is today's King

 

[Kaladin]

Faaaaaak

What happens now? New kingmaker, orrrr?

Anyhow, reads.

I have a meta scum read on Maven that I can't go into detail about. I won't vote based on that until I have something non-meta, but I'm going to keep eyes on him.

The actual content of Gheb's posts seems rather pro-town, but he seems a bit off. Then again, I'm paranoid. Null-nulltown

Sang is town.

More to come.

 

[RadicalRat]

Yes.

Slick will PM me who he would like to succeed him as Kingmaker, and I'll send a new Role PM to whoever he chooses.

Assassins cannot become Kingmaker however, so if he happens to pick one, I'll ask for another.

 

[Spak]

Orboknown explain your inactivity. You're cruisin' for a bruisin'.

 

[Kaladin]

Note: the meta-read is valid with or without the strawman thing around page 4.

Wait. I just realized Zalak was eight about koopa's slot being kingmaker.

Not bad. Very nice, actually.

Spak seems town-ish

Orbo is null

Going to re-re read tonight, hopefully.

 

[Spak]

Note: the meta-read is valid with or without the strawman thing around page 4.

Wait. I just realized Zalak was eight about koopa's slot being kingmaker.

Not bad. Very nice, actually.

Spak seems town-ish

Orbo is null

Going to re-re read tonight, hopefully.

I was sure of it because of this:

Actually, nvm. He's engaged in conversation as of a few minutes ago.

And then RR posting the start of the game three minutes after that. I just wanted to not mention it because that might get our kingmaker killed (which happened anyways). That's also why I didn't ever put him on the possible lynch list.

 

[Spak]

Anyways, long live King (Queen?) Sang!

 

[Kaladin]

I was sure of it because of this:



And then RR posting the start of the game three minutes after that. I just wanted to not mention it because that might get our kingmaker killed (which happened anyways). That's also why I didn't ever put him on the possible lynch list.

Hum. Perhaps.

Anyways, Spak, talk to me about Maven. Reads, opinion, hot or not? Etc.

 

[Spak]

Hum. Perhaps.

Anyways, Spak, talk to me about Maven. Reads, opinion, hot or not? Etc.

He seemed scummy yesterday, but looking back, I'm not quite sure why... I need to go to bed soon, but I'm sure people are willing to pick up where you left off yesterday. My main concerns at this point are you from lack of information and bad first impressions and Orbo because he's added literally nothing to this game, yet people are content with letting him get away with it.

 

[Orboknown]

Orboknown explain your inactivity. You're cruisin' for a bruisin'.

I get busy and focus on one thing over another? Its literally cases where i go all day without even opening the browser on my phone

 

[Maven89]

I figured one of the 3 big names (Sang, Gheb, J) was scum, as I figured mafia would definitely attempt to bait the kingmaker into making them king. I narrowed in on J due t his overall "commentary" nature, but I'm thinking J had more insight to my thought process then I acknowledged

Either way, that was some **** last night.

I don't really know at all still why I was thrown up for consideration other then not wanting to die, s

 

[Maven89]

Kaladin could you answer the questions we posed to you yesterday?

 

[Spak]

I get busy and focus on one thing over another? Its literally cases where i go all day without even opening the browser on my phone

Still, the few times that you were here, you added absolutely nothing to the conversation. Sang has only really been online once a day, and has done a LOT more helpful analyzation and has actually triggered/fueled scumhunting, whereas you post a couple words once every couple of days that doesn't give us any leads or info. What are your reads at the moment?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Post #171 looks awful in retrospect. Making points against two people that are confirmed townie [neither NKd] and a third player that looks pretty townie as well [I couldn't find any points against whatsoever Maven on my reread] ... I know I used to argue town!Generic but this just looks so bad on him.

No, you won't.

You'll lynch who you think is scum.

Spak after rereading the thread I agree that the decision of lynching Zalak didn't happen as unexpected as I thought it was. You've already fos'd him on like p4 but your play was so passive, I doubt anybody actually notices stuff like that. That's kind of your own fault tbh but at least I won't hold the whole lynch scenario against you.


Not sure why Slick was killed. Zalak had basically already exposed him as the kingmaker which makes me wonder why he was targeted? Kingmaker doesn't actually do anything for the town unlike the Hero who could actually turn out to be a problem to scum at some point. Seems like mafia's inexperienced and/or not paying attention. I know NA speculation is frowned upon but I really don't think a mafioso who's ... actually playing this game would kill the 'known' kingmaker when there's an unexecutable slot running around. Can't help but think that this hints mostly towards Generic and Orbo. Sang might've missed it as well but she can't be executed toDay ... but I specifically remember her getting a lot of unwarranted pro-town credit when she should've been considered null. There's also a chance that it's Spak but I don't actually think he's done anything that's particularly suspicious.

ToDay's execution is definitely between Orbo and Generic imo.

 

[Spak]

I think I just realized the Mafia strats. They're killing based in levels of activity; this thread will be completely abandoned by D3 or D4.

 

[Kaladin]

I think I just realized the Mafia strats. They're killing based in levels of activity; this thread will be completely abandoned by D3 or D4.

Lel

~ Gheb ~ Yeah, that looks pretty bad on me. Really bad, actually. Not sure what to say. I was wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Give me a while to get my thoughts together, then I'll respond to those questions+actually contribute to the game.

 

[Kaladin]

Wait how is Maven confirmed town?

 

[Kaladin]

~ Gheb ~ Unless Rat failed to mention Role Cop on the setup, you have some explaining to do.

 

[Orboknown]

@sang
I like gheb because hes not seeming like hes manipulative this game, which is something i associate with scum gheb a lot
I like you because of the thought process apparent
Uhh
Zalek sucks because of the shiestyness j pointed out that i dknt recall right now
Generic too (speed blitzing this game then having the other one catch my attention made me forget a lot n of this thread lol)

Spak

 

[Orboknown]

Also ngl my investment in this game took a good hit with the j shenanigans too

 

[Kaladin]

Also ngl my investment in this game took a good hit with the j shenanigans too

Ngl?

 

[Maven89]

Not gonna lie

 

[Orboknown]

What he said^

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wait how is Maven confirmed town?

... he's not.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Hey everyone! Looks like I'm the new king (or queen?)! I will, in all my mighty power given by the fallen SlickWylde, look to vanquish the evil that haunts this land.

Anyway, I haven't decided how I want to handle the king role yet, but I'm thinking I will just focus on questions today and then have an unofficial vote thing throughout the Day and especially near the end of the Day. That might change, but we'll see. Speaking of, R RadicalRat , could we get an updated thread title?

I'm kind of confused about the Slick NK, but regardless it's definitely another hit to the activity levels of thread as they've been previously.

The actual content of Gheb's posts seems rather pro-town, but he seems a bit off. Then again, I'm paranoid. Null-nulltown

Generic, if you're able, could you go into this a little more for me?

I don't really know at all still why I was thrown up for consideration other then not wanting to die, s

Maven, what do you mean by this? Mainy because, IIRC, there were some people that were/possibly still are uncomfortable with your slot (including myself). And, I apologize if you've already stated this, but who do you think we should look into the most today?

~ Gheb ~ , I may be reading your post incorrectly, but are you saying you think Orbo/Generic should be the targets of today simply because of NK speculation, or do you have other reasons? If so, what are they?

Spak , What are your reads for the day? Have they changed from yesterDay?

Orboknown I know you don't feel as invested in the game, but that's putting a definite hurt on town. If you're able to, please post. Have your reads changed at all for toDay?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If you actually read the thread you wouldn't need me to answer that question.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Bruh, no need to get testy. Legitimately was asking a question with regard to that one post. If you didn't sense a theme, I'm trying to see/understand if people's thoughts on slots have changed between yesterDay and toDay. Regardless, thanks (I guess). That's answered it plenty.

 

[Kaladin]

Kill Gheb for blasphemy.

Sang, regarding your question, I can't quite pin it down. No individual Gheb post gives me pause, but he feels shady. As for my meta read on Maven, he is playing very differently this game from when he was town in Banjo-Kazooie.

I'm going to make a really big post later tonight in which I'll answer those questions and make in-depth reads.

 

[Orboknown]

I'm gonna reread with flips in mind and then get at you sang

 

[Kaladin]

Can one chose themself as king?

 

[RadicalRat]

I could have sworn I already updated that thread title.... But yeah, I'll fix that up right away.

And no, the Kingmaker is not allowed to choose themselves.
Game reason: There's no risk of picking an Assassin of they pick themself, so the whole concept falls apart.
Flavor reason: Sacred tradition.

 

[Kaladin]

Oh most benevolent Spak I would make the case that, based on the information we current possess, Maven is the most likely to be scum.

Lets examine the exchange between Zalak and Maven.


This is a very impartial and noncommittal post, simply raising a hypothetical con to an announcement of 'if I'm king I'm killing Sneakytako'.



Maven89 https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman Very scummy.



Again, he is simply bringing things into consideration.

However, while Maven is presenting a scummy word twisting straw man, at this point I would note that Zalak is the second most likely scum with our current information. Just because Maven attacked his argument tellingly does not make it correct. (it is not) Further, as J notes:


Zalak seems rather over defensive, flustered even, uncharacteristically. Maven didn't really do much to him in the way of dangerous accusations. Over defensive Zalak is scum Zalak.

Therefore, Spak, I would request further investigation into/the death of either Zalak or Maven.

-----------



BAD J! BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD! If there were a mafia equivalent of For Glory little macs, it would be this proposition. (I jest, but I do think it's bad)

Under your policy, the king is allowed to set the topics of discussion for the rest of the day, and then the first half of the next day cuz WIFOM bull****. If we get a scum king any later than day 3, and we follow your structure, that's gg.

However, I do agree that the king ought to use his or her position to put the pressure on, hard.

Aight, so this. I'm going to address this one last time, then move forward with the thread. This was an example of my proposed format+an admittedly flimsy argument based on what had happened in the thread thus far. Nothing more.

However, I still dislike Maven for meta reasons.

...Moving on.

Also at the time I didn't realize the mafia had a nightkill and thought this game was only going to have executes.

I didn't really look at the flavor and thought the kingmaker was randomized every day based off possibly having a random king day 1 and so yeah, I was thinking this was just going to just be executes

This sounds really fake. Internet tones are hard, but this feels like a manufactured townslip.

generic sucks. Not as a person, but as a slot.
I like maven more than zalek
I also like gheb and sang so far

geez i wanna call this a townslip

Orbo has contributed more than y'all give him credit for.

I don't think I'd put it beyond scum!Maven to fake such a "slip". Not that I see much of a reason to read him as scum right now but I wouldn't treat that 'incident' as anything other than null.

Wondering if Spak has any tendencies at this point. As for my opinion, I think executing Zalak seems like a solid plan.

Again, I'd tend to agree with Gheb here. Faked slip.

Well, I generally agree with J that there's a whole bunch of slots that I wouldn't shed a tear over if they were to be executed. A lot of people with disappointing input [both in quantity and quality] - Orbo, Koops, Generic, Zalak ... and that's just off the top of my head. Honestly, I don't even wanna start thinking about the possibility that all of these people could be town because that'd be pretty terrible.



There's also the problem that you post a lot but say little in the process. Playstyle or not, you've basically flooded the whole thread with posts so far yet I don't see how any of what you posted really helped to progress the game in a way that's even remotely constructive. So many post yet so little content and no clear pushes ... I can't be the only one who has an issue with that? I mean people like Sang have only a fraction of your post count but I don't feel like you have given us more to work with than them.

Hmmmmmm. Zalak does have a bad content-to-word ratio, but I'd say he advanced the thread more than Sang.

God this game is going to be really hard for me.

I am liking both Sang and Gheb and that's a problem because those two are the scariest slots this game for me because of their ability to make me like them and also appear really towny when they are scum. They can live for toDay's purposes, but I am biting my lip a bit at the notion of me feeling too strongly about their slots this way. Sang is incredibly logical, but entirely too null (since I know she has stronger opinions then she is letting on for the sake of not wanting to become too much in the limelight D1 SangfroidWarrior I see your game) and Gheb is more vocal than I'm used to which is intriguing, but I agree with pretty much everything he has said (and he's agreed with me as well)

Zalak seems to maybe be town due to his playstyle/tone being different then Gheb's game where it was really evident if he was scum from D1 whereas here I just think he doesn't understand what is going on fully in the thread. I mean, his strongest town read is Koopa? That makes 0 sense. Like if people with small post count that could be considered towny the only one that comes to mind is Sang because of her content is more viable then that of Koopa/Orbo (or as Gheb said, a huge chunk of the game)

Maven is too coasty for me currently and I dislike that fact. There is nothing notable from Maven besides the earlier stuff with Zalak which got the game going, but other than that he's just a background member this game.

Maven89 : I'll answer your question if you can give me a valid reason to rank them for a D1 read's list. The way I look at it, most of D1 is a crapshoot unless something inherently obvious happens. People know that I dislike Generic especially since I am the one who began the push on his slot and brought attention to his play.

I am regretting, though, calling Generic out so early because of the fact that everyone has pretty much scapegoated and said "Yeah, Generic is bad looking" which makes me ponder regarding if what I pointed out was directly scummy or just bad play from Generic's part which is a feasible option as well. To also consider the fact that Generic also got lynched for similar actions while albeit scummy to most slots, Generic's playstyle is that of naturally being scummy (in my eyes). I am hesitant on lynching him especially since we still have 4 days of discussion.

Sparky is not really doing anything lately as king, but I have liked his tone and don't find anything to disagree with what he has done. He's a naturally passive player so that makes me lean more towards having him as town. However, his slot is not one I am focusing on because there is 0 I can do about him for any reason toDay.

Orbo's posts to me have been hollow as hell and that's strange because I can read Orbo incredibly clearly from memory and in this game there is a fog surrounding his slot which makes me lean towards him more likely being scum and using his passive scum-game in this early dayphase to hide under the radar.

Finally Koopa comes in and attributes nothing new to the thread content and I'm just sitting here wondering what his goal is. The most notable thing I can recall is him just syaing that "newbies can change" and that is true, but I don't get why he said that.

I'm not going to rank my reads, but these are where people stand currently. If I was King for toDay, I would lynch one of Generic/Orbo/Maven (order doesn't matter). Generic because he has all the signs of a good D1 lynch with a great opportunity to flip scum. The other two because I do not like the vibes they are sending off currently.

VERY interesting. I have very very very little meta on Gheb, but I'd agree he does seem more vocal than usual. I'm honestly starting to dislike Sang, but more on that later. Now then, Maven. I agree wholeheartedly about Maven's coastiness. Further, he has posted far less content than he did when he was town. In banjo-kazooie is was obvi-scumhunting. This game... He's just not.

And now, for your daily input from SangfroidWarrior. (Sorry, this is a bit long, but I'm just trying to make up)

Honestly, I might not make any sense here, but I'm kind of concerned with the number of times that Zalak either misunderstands people or creates a misunderstanding based on his wording. It's like... it happens so often it's like he's intentionally trying to be vague and create confusion, which is really not being beneficial at all. (Note, I don't particularly find this scummy right now, but it's something I'm going to keep an eye on). I'm also giving Zalak a little... side-eye because of the comment regarding ignoring other people's accusations until the King tells him to defend himself. It seems like he's... dodging people's concerns. While I might also see where he's coming from (in that people often ask him the same questions or hone in on certain topics), it's also a very scummy (maybe that's not the right word. Maybe... sketchy?) thing to do in terms of shutting down conversations.

I want to be clear. Although I am mostly confused about Zalak's slot, I don't find him particularly scummy. Just... intruiging, and I could go either way.

@Zalak, I apologize if you've already commented on this, but who do you think we should be focusing on currently?

I really want Generic to come back.

Orboknown , could you explain your reads for me a bit?

Maven89 , what are your thoughts on J? He is notoriously hard for me to read, and I would like your opinion.

I have a bullet in my notes that I want Spak to post more, so thanks for getting to that before I actually could lol. But, Spak , what is your opinion of Koopa? I know you commented on Zalak's post about him, but what are your thoughts?

@TheKingofKoopas, why do you think it is WIFOMy? IMO, it's one of the only things we have to go off of now. What else do you think we should focus on?

#HBC | J , ~ Gheb ~ I know I focused on Zalak a lot in this post, but do you think his slips or the posts people find the most fault with are just a towny being careless, or do you think it's scummy?

In general, my reaction to most everyone is still "...??". In terms of my reads, I mostly wanna look at Zalak, Maven, and Koopa more. Unfortunately, since Generic is not here at the moment, we can't really discuss him too much. Zalak is just so confusing to me and I really want to figure it out. Maven seems way too... I think "coast-y" is how J put it, which I agree with. He comes in with some inputs and then just leaves without making anything of note. Koopa also confuses me, and his posts haven't added anything to the conversation that hasn't already been said.

I dislike Sang. Sang is now kinda scummy imo. Thus far, sang has posted the most carefully null, carefully noncommittal, and carefully not contrary to popular opinion posts I've ever seen. Unless Sang gets a scum today, I want to seriously look into her slot in the future. The questions are easy to manufacture, noncommittal questions that Sang never actually followed up on. Going along with Zalak scum, going along with popular town reads, not ever not parroting a very safe opinion that seems pro-town. Scary slot.

Gotcha gotcha. As I said, I understand where you were coming from, but the wording throws me off. I still think that it's somewhat akin to shutting down conversations and therefore putting town at a standstill, but in the case where, to me at least, it seemed like people were just asking you the same questions or bringing up the same points, I can understand.

Hm... Can you explain to me why you feel uneasy about Maven?

Except for this post. This is a post I lean town on.

That's who I was mentioning. I guess that makes sense. Otherwise, you seem to have either null or scum-reads, could I get any town-leans so far?

Maven89 : I've explained my dislike of you has been mainly centralized around your coasty play and you've done almost nothing this game besides well....being here? A lot of other people have made mention of this, but what makes you question the dislike now? In fact, you are probably everyone's 2nd pick for toDay's lynch.

Good post.

I'll start where I left off. I'm missing about the last two pages which I'll get to next but I just wanted to get the quotes I had out.




I didn't see how Zalak could find value in that discussion at all, and wondered if he was just bringing it up in the hopes someone else would run with it. I didn't see any other reason someone would even bring up something like that. That's my point there. I didn't catch Zalak's first post where he intially said he wasn't advocating it, but the post I just quoted is not based on him advocating it but just on him bringing it up. I



Just gonna point out this is J's very first post, and he comes in telling us to stop talking about the only thing that's brought up discussion while at the same time complaining that other people aren't doing that.



On a re-read, I actually like this post right here. I suggest people re-read it because it makes quite a bit of sense.




This was a bad post



This is a good post, and you're right. Based on this, if Generic was scum it'd make Zalak way more likely to be scum.






Cause you said you'd be fine with 6 people dying but then didn't tell anyone who they were and despite talking about Generic you didn't seem to really care about it.




Why would you include me on that list, but not Koopa when you just mentioned how little he'd posted?



I honestly don't believe this at all and feel like Zalak made it up on the spot



What?










But now you're saying you understand what he was going on, and that it was based on truth?

This is mostly BS.

Ok there wasn't much



Yeah I still find it odd you'd bring up my slot as the inactivity lynch when I actually have done stuff, I started out with overall discussion about how we should use the king and brought up Zalak's point. Clearly this is very little but I'm very curious why you would want me dead over Orbo/Koopa who have clearly done less?



Do you find it scummy?

Right now I have Gheb as town, Spak/Sang as slightly town, I like Sang's contributions but need more, Spak is mainly gut.

I'm curious about J. I had him as town before, but re-reading I didn't like his slot nearly as much. I realized that outside of Generic, J mainly complained about the day, and while he gave reads he never seemed to actually want to get any of them killed outside of "all of them". The first time he seemed to want to actively push for someone, it was me. I also don't agree with him reading Zalak as town, but I can see it.

I've played scum Zalak before, and he came off as the most honest, confused townie I've seen. And he was caught in the end because we didn't look at the gut but just at what he was actually saying and posting and talking about. I believe that should be done here.

I'm fine with a Zalak kill. Generic I actually don't want to kill today since he's not here. J I have as null, and don't believe he should be higher then that in anyone's book.

Explain to me Spaktown.

Still not liking Zalak's play one bit. His whole point on the J / Sang / "who read Maven as scum" issue is extremely nit-picky. Especially since a lot of people [including myself] can be a bit vague about whom they think is scum or whether they just want somebody lynched for other purposes. When Sang says that she wants somebody investigated she doesn't do it for fun but because she has a legitimate suspicion. It's not a huge reach to conclude that Maven't slot would be at least somewhere in her extended execution pool.

As for my opinion on Maven, I don't think it'd be a good idea to lynch him. Even with how little he posted so far his #332 and #336 show that he has some solid insight. I agree with him on Zalak, I agree with him on Generic and I can see why he's a bit confused about J's play considering the only recent experience he has with him is his scumplay from Revival of dGames. Of course, I can only answer that way now because Maven happened to post between when J asked me how I feel about Maven and now. But yeah, as of now I'd value his insight too highly to think about lynching him. Neither do I see a reason to read him as scum nor does the inactivity-argument apply too him.

If I had to pick somebody other than Zalak I'd go with either Koops or Orbo at this point. The former still hasn't done **** so far and the latter has posted little content and his stances look pretty safe.

If Maven or Gheb is scum, I could see them as scum together.

Spak

This point still stands btw. When I look at peoples' performances in this game I think we're far enough into the Day to conclude that Generic - despite not even posting right now - has done more to help the game move forward than other slots. His Maven vs Zalak analysis, while probably faulty, is probably the one thing that gave us more to work with than anything else. And like I said before, I doubt that it's a point scum!Generic would make.

Just want you to let that sink in for a moment. If you wanna lynch a player based on inactivity/lack of input then there's no way that Generic should be executed before Koops tbh.

I'm very paranoid in these games, but I'm a little concerned Gheb is trying to pocket me. *Puts on tinfoil hat*

#HBC | J I'm in a rush right now, so just a quick post, but about my Zalak read:I'm not scum reading him due to meta, but I'm not town reading him due to meta. I 100% see how he comes off as honest and new, asking questions all the time, and seems pretty genuine. But based on Meta I know he can do that as scum. So there's no town points for him just for seeming confused. Has he done anything to be pro-town?

But more to the point, you say you don't see the mal-intent. But what has Zalak done this game but attempt to avoid the execute and fan the flames? There's no voting, there's no bandwagons or momentum to build. The only thing a scum could do in this scenario is try to avoid being executed himself while trying to make everyone else look bad in the hopes they're executed.

This is all that Zalak has done the entire game. Is there a bandwagon or push he hasn't supported? Does any of his reasons for supporting them make sense? Is it consistent? Is he really trying to scum hunt, or is he just hoping to defend himself from his execute (he already told us he was appealing to spak) and trying to push everyone else down the toiler?

Yes, Maven, there is.In fact, I would argue that you yourself are just jumping on the Zalak train.

That might very well be true, my friend. But when I lift my nose and whiff, the smell of bloodshed enters from your direction. I have seen what seem like incriminating posts from you, and have not seen anything that looks like genuine town interest.

As I gaze upon the city and ponder, I will share my thoughts:

#HBC | J Is extremely difficult to read. The fact that he's experienced makes it hard to pin point his intentions. I have noticed a playstyle change from him, he has been more agressive this game. What that means, I don't yet know.
(That same thing could be said for me this game, I suppose. But that's because I'm still working through some neural interface network issues)

Orboknown - I have not seen anything that I found very interesting. I believe it is more of a case of him being busy, as opposed to attempting to survive as scum.

Maven89 - I find myself agreeing with most of what he has said.

Kaladin - I really dislike his argument on page 5.

Spak - I find his lack of faith (commitment) disturbing...

~ Gheb ~ - I find his posts on the first few pages to be very intelligent and pro town.

If you were to hold a poison goblet to my head, I would say this...

My soul would not be crushed if Zalak were to be executed today. My spirits would not fall if Spak were to be executed tomorrow.



*This is my new "Mafia persona", I'm not trying to sound smart lol

...Huh

This is the post that raised my cackles the most for Zalak. I don't appreciate arguments where people use "likes" as evidence. In my opinion, it's not only a flimsy argument, but also confusing, because there are a plethora of reasons why this could have happened. He could have changed his mind, like you have- (several times).

#HBC | J Your current thoughts elude me. Can you give me a short synopsis on your top three scum reads.

I hate doing this, but after re-reading the thread, I've amended my thoughts on some players.

I initially had Spak as my second scum pick, but I no longer find him very suspicious. I'm thinking one of the three of Maven/Generic/Gheb is scum, but I don't think 2/3 of them are.

My initial impression of Sang not posting anything significant was blatantly incorrect, I will read better in the future. She has posted several great posts. I have gone through and given likes to people who I believe contributed to the conversation. A "like" doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the entire post, but I appreciate the fact that it moves this along.

SangfroidWarrior I've heard your thoughts on specific individuals, (I believe you have a scum read on Maven?) but can you give a synopsis of your top two or three scum choices?

Spak If Zalak turns out to be innocent, who would be your next choice?

Sorry for my extended absence. I had a lot of work I had to do and hadn't been able to check the thread as often as I had wanted. I should (keyword: should) be able to begin posting more after today because I have a few days of break and then a slightly easier week ahead.

I guess I'll just start with where my head's at in terms of the game and then respond to other people's questions. I had to skim a bit, so my advanced apologies for that, but I'm mostly caught up. Also, I had already begun formulating this when Spak made the execution notice, but I will keep everything in (mostly because I already wrote it and don't want to erase time I spent lol).

Since my last post, I think I've changed my mind on Zalak. I had him previously as a more or less null read, but his further actions have made me question him more to the extent that I feel he is more likely to be scum than townie. I'm unable to separate, in my own head, if this is because I actually do think that he is actually scummy or if the comments that others have made regarding his posts make me see them in a scummier light. I am inclined to lean more toward the former.

I'm not sure if this is still relevant, but I would like to clarify regarding the J/Zalak discussion of my views. While I did not explicitly say that I am fine with Maven's lynch, J is correct in his assumption. I would not be upset if Maven were lynched toDay because I believe he has said and done things that come across as scummy to me (moreso than Zalak's posts have, IMO), and that his flip would be able to give us a good sense of where to go toMorrow. But, I didn't have everybody on that list in my can-be-lnyched pool. Specifically, I was not, at the time, comfortable with a Zalak lynch (that has since changed).

I agree with whomever said this (I believe J?) in that I'm worried about Spak and his insistence on either being on the sidelines or generally not inputting too much and/or pushing for reads. Coupled with executing Zalak early (which may have just been an honest mistake, but idk right now), his comfort in following the town's desire seems off, to me. I want to see more from him D2.

@SlickWylde Does this answer your question? I think he should still be looked at, but not only because of executing Zalak early.

Depending on Zalak's flip, I may want to look into Maven more. The uneasy feeling I have with his slot is just getting worse and worse. Specifically, I remember being very confused about why he decided to answer a question with another question and being vague. There's just this hodgepodge mass of Zalak/Maven/Generic that can't be separated in my head toDay.

In terms of my town reads, I am more or less comfortable with J (this makes me uneasy for the same reasons he has stated of me; he's scary, and has played me like a fiddle way too many times for me to be entirely comfortable). With Slick's current play I have a slight-town read (although I'm keeping him at a distance because of my previous read of his slot), and a leaning town read of Spak (which might change upon a reread and his actions toMorrow). Gheb I have a leaning town read as well, but he really makes me nervous because I never know how to read him.

While this post is very well constructed and sounds town-ish, it consists entirely of her changing her opinions to match whatever the current popular reads are.

Now, everyone, please humor me for a moment. What I'm about to do is going to see very self-preservation oriented, but I promise this will help the town.

Who has a hard town read on me?