GwJ
Smash Hero
I have very little matchup knowledge on this one, so do your best.
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R.O.B. Matchup Analysis #6 - Luigi
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PowerHungryFool
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It's a tough one. A competent Luigi who can space his aerials will have a definite advantage and force you to play defensively. His fireball is good at stopping gyro as well. I'd say it's 55:45 or 60:40 in Luigi's favor.
Pokecheese
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This is my first post here, so I apologize if I come off as inexperienced or use incorrect formatting and whatnot.
Anyways, I have faced a few decent Luigis, and while it's a tough MU, it's definitely not unwinnable for ROB. As mentioned above, fireball can stop gyro, but gyro on the ground can also stop fireballs, so it can be used as a defensive tool. Laser also goes through fireballs. I've also found that shooting the gyro out of a short-hop can hit Luigi as an angle that his fireballs cannot block. Overall, I think that ROB can play the defence in this MU better than Luigi can.
A huge problem for ROB is Luigi's combos, as he can get huge percent out of a down-throw. (I dunno if I'm DIing wrong, but I've had D-throw > Fair > Fair > Re-grab D-Throw > Fair > Fair done on my a few times an it's not pretty.) He can also juggle ROB easily, as pretty much all his aerials beat Nair. U-Smash is also a very useful anti-air vs. ROB.
Short-Hop Nair is a godsend in this MU for me, as it catches dash-grabs and the occasional dash-attack, keeping Luigi on the defensive where I believe ROB has the advantage. I've also been able to use D-air to spike after Luigi ends his Down-B recovery, although the spacing and timing is difficult. His Up B is basically unguardable with the ridiculous ledge-snap.
Overall, ROB has the advantage when he's on the defensive, but Luigi can approach better and can combo ROB easily. I'd def put this match-up in favour of Luigi, but only slightly. No more than 60-40 for Luigi.
Anyways, I have faced a few decent Luigis, and while it's a tough MU, it's definitely not unwinnable for ROB. As mentioned above, fireball can stop gyro, but gyro on the ground can also stop fireballs, so it can be used as a defensive tool. Laser also goes through fireballs. I've also found that shooting the gyro out of a short-hop can hit Luigi as an angle that his fireballs cannot block. Overall, I think that ROB can play the defence in this MU better than Luigi can.
A huge problem for ROB is Luigi's combos, as he can get huge percent out of a down-throw. (I dunno if I'm DIing wrong, but I've had D-throw > Fair > Fair > Re-grab D-Throw > Fair > Fair done on my a few times an it's not pretty.) He can also juggle ROB easily, as pretty much all his aerials beat Nair. U-Smash is also a very useful anti-air vs. ROB.
Short-Hop Nair is a godsend in this MU for me, as it catches dash-grabs and the occasional dash-attack, keeping Luigi on the defensive where I believe ROB has the advantage. I've also been able to use D-air to spike after Luigi ends his Down-B recovery, although the spacing and timing is difficult. His Up B is basically unguardable with the ridiculous ledge-snap.
Overall, ROB has the advantage when he's on the defensive, but Luigi can approach better and can combo ROB easily. I'd def put this match-up in favour of Luigi, but only slightly. No more than 60-40 for Luigi.
PUK
Smash Ace
He hasn't an easy time confirming kill (from i saw up air, back air (sweetspot), n air (sweetspot), up smash are his kill move) but he will go for a stage spike so teching is our life. Don't let him land a grab, if he does don't be predictible with ur DI.
Also his lol traction and run speed allows us to do thing we wouldn't do anywhere else.
Play a good zoning game, punish What you can, side b soletimes is useful when he approaches covering himself with fireball. If he understands the lesson and doesn't try to approach (it's the usual luigi's player strategy), don't dash or run if you want to aggro: walk is deadly for him because we don't lose any option and can beat all his move in range.
I think we win the match up because we are a robot, and in the end robot will rule the world. But it's close: we have to commit to kill here, he has to set up. We will be punish, he will have to past our wall. We can't really gimp (maybe a gyro Dlaunch can beat cyclone?), he can with various way. So even is What i say.
Let's call a luigi player to help us, because i'm not sure about some things (what is the worst DI, if aerial approach is a thing we should care, etc)
Also his lol traction and run speed allows us to do thing we wouldn't do anywhere else.
Play a good zoning game, punish What you can, side b soletimes is useful when he approaches covering himself with fireball. If he understands the lesson and doesn't try to approach (it's the usual luigi's player strategy), don't dash or run if you want to aggro: walk is deadly for him because we don't lose any option and can beat all his move in range.
I think we win the match up because we are a robot, and in the end robot will rule the world. But it's close: we have to commit to kill here, he has to set up. We will be punish, he will have to past our wall. We can't really gimp (maybe a gyro Dlaunch can beat cyclone?), he can with various way. So even is What i say.
Let's call a luigi player to help us, because i'm not sure about some things (what is the worst DI, if aerial approach is a thing we should care, etc)
PowerHungryFool
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PUK
Smash Ace
I want to add important things relative to the post above
- d tilt can move away the gyro and luigi's crouch animation is low, so it can use it if he fear the laser (maybe it's not low enough)
- Our up air kill early and outrange a lot of thing, but cyclone is fast enough to avoid juggling, though it can be read.
- If we are above 120% up throw kill at 100% on final destination 3ds version and rob grab is f7-8 so unsafe and bad spaced move mean death. Wait for rob losing his way and aggro to end with up b,
Luigi can do about everything with his throws : combo or finish with a down B.
but with his shield... if you hit it, he will hard step back.
I think it's quite easy to zone him. But if he can approach you and make a grab, you'll spend a hard time :/
Just becareful with his aerials that have a really good range.
Maybe I didn't fight good Luigis, but I don't feel this match up to be obviously in Luigi's favor. I think it's quite neutral (maybe 55-45 for one side, but not more).
I recommend FD for this match up. Avoid stages with low ceiling (halberd, duck hunt) because I think he can grab us more easily than we do (and finish us with a down B really early)
but with his shield... if you hit it, he will hard step back.
I think it's quite easy to zone him. But if he can approach you and make a grab, you'll spend a hard time :/
Just becareful with his aerials that have a really good range.
Maybe I didn't fight good Luigis, but I don't feel this match up to be obviously in Luigi's favor. I think it's quite neutral (maybe 55-45 for one side, but not more).
I recommend FD for this match up. Avoid stages with low ceiling (halberd, duck hunt) because I think he can grab us more easily than we do (and finish us with a down B really early)
PUK
Smash Ace
If you're DI is good luigi will NEVER finish his combo with upb at kill, and will NEVER try because it's a asked murder. FD is good, lylat is complicated if you don't master laser bounce but mess with his recovery and not ours, duck hunt is not bad because we have more vertical kill tool. Halberd is always bad, delfino is not pleasant because lol Bthrow. Town and city is the opposite, if you grab on the good platform.
DI out is not that easy.
If luigi is too greedy and spam B button, of course it's really easy to escape. But if he cares enough to finish his tornado (and has a good control of his move), with ROB's hurtbox, it's not that surprising to see the last hitbox hit ROB.
I don't say it's his best killmove against us. But it's possible on low ceiling stages.
If luigi is too greedy and spam B button, of course it's really easy to escape. But if he cares enough to finish his tornado (and has a good control of his move), with ROB's hurtbox, it's not that surprising to see the last hitbox hit ROB.
I don't say it's his best killmove against us. But it's possible on low ceiling stages.
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I play both ROB and Luigi, here are my thoughts:
Cons:
Pros:
Cons:
- Luigi is very dangerous up close, he has more options out of his grab, and D-throw -> Cyclone (which is a true combo on almost the entire cast) is easy to land on ROB given his large hurtbox. So, whatever you do, do not let him come close.
- He can answer Gyro's with Fireballs too, meaning Laser is necessary to disrupt him. Gyro's can stop Cyclone approaches though.
- ROB's large hurtbox is problematic because Up B becomes easier to land. (I personally avoid using it as it is too risky, imo, but something to watch out for.)
- As for Aerials, Luigi's got the upper hand, if he knows what he's doing. F-Air can combo into itself at low percents, while B-Air and N-air is are kill moves.
- Returning to the stage once you are knocked off will be a pain. His D-air is a spike, just like ROB's but without the lag and stalling properties. His huge jumps mean that he can also intercept you trying to recover high, and ROB has trouble protecting himself from attacks from below.
Pros:
- Luigi's traction is a problem which many players actually struggle with.
- Luigi also has difficulty punishing any attack on block as he gets pushed too far away to counter-attack.
- Luigi has a lower aerial speed than rob, though I'm not quite sure how much it helps ROB.
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PUK
Smash Ace
Yeah you know there is max 10 character where you couldn't say the exact same thing. Luigi's asset and flaws are always the same. Rob too.
Fireball are a weak answer to gyro, because it doesn't change gyro owner.
Approach is an issue because of bad mobility, and rob has tools for each options.
Defense is an issue because of traction and rob's frame trap and because he can force approach in this MU
So we can't trivialise this MU: yeah if luigi gets in his dangerous, yeah rob can wall him for decades, yep luigi rack damage fast, so does rob, and yep both have kill option which would make Mario jealous.
We are in a "if i can realise my game plan i win" on both sides, with both side needing to be cautious and creative. And because i can't see luigi's or rob's game plan being the easiest to apply, i can't say more than even.
In the zelda/luigi MU, the advantage has been given to zelda, because she can keep luigi away and kill way earlier. It questionnable, but Rob has more tool to keep luigi away, and kill more or less in the same range than luigi. He's heavy, so luigi need a lot of damage to kill, and need to avoid getting damaged himself because a raging rob kill from a grab as insanely low percent.
Fireball are a weak answer to gyro, because it doesn't change gyro owner.
Approach is an issue because of bad mobility, and rob has tools for each options.
Defense is an issue because of traction and rob's frame trap and because he can force approach in this MU
So we can't trivialise this MU: yeah if luigi gets in his dangerous, yeah rob can wall him for decades, yep luigi rack damage fast, so does rob, and yep both have kill option which would make Mario jealous.
We are in a "if i can realise my game plan i win" on both sides, with both side needing to be cautious and creative. And because i can't see luigi's or rob's game plan being the easiest to apply, i can't say more than even.
In the zelda/luigi MU, the advantage has been given to zelda, because she can keep luigi away and kill way earlier. It questionnable, but Rob has more tool to keep luigi away, and kill more or less in the same range than luigi. He's heavy, so luigi need a lot of damage to kill, and need to avoid getting damaged himself because a raging rob kill from a grab as insanely low percent.
Soupy
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Honestly, I REALLY hate the ROB match-up. It is probably my least favorite, next to Shiek and campy Samus.
Main things that I think ROB excels at in the Luigi fight:
1) Gyro and laser are both great options to keep a heavy approaching Luigi at bay. The one major problem with Weegi is approaching campy projectile characters of any kind. Our only option is pretty much 'nado or run up -> shield.
2) ROB can obliterate Luigi off stage. A badly placed missile or 'nado can easily lead into being spiked by that vicious down air. It doesnt help that his recovery isn't too shabby at all.
3) Up close, ROB seems to have some pretty decent options. Comparing 100% even players though, I think Luigi would take the cake in the up close brawling game due to how many approach options he has when he gets inside.
4) ROB seems to have some pretty decent damage rack-up options, including the ever so friendly d-throw -> up air -> up air (I honestly dislike this combo more than the HOO HAH)
While Luigi takes the trophy on the boxing game, ROB has both a better projectile game and a better off stage threat.
However, if the Luigi is good at timing power shields and getting in, there is still a very strong possibility of Luigi coming out on top. So with that, I'd probably say that the match-up is, at the least, 55/45 in ROB's favor. Maybe 60/40.
Main things that I think ROB excels at in the Luigi fight:
1) Gyro and laser are both great options to keep a heavy approaching Luigi at bay. The one major problem with Weegi is approaching campy projectile characters of any kind. Our only option is pretty much 'nado or run up -> shield.
2) ROB can obliterate Luigi off stage. A badly placed missile or 'nado can easily lead into being spiked by that vicious down air. It doesnt help that his recovery isn't too shabby at all.
3) Up close, ROB seems to have some pretty decent options. Comparing 100% even players though, I think Luigi would take the cake in the up close brawling game due to how many approach options he has when he gets inside.
4) ROB seems to have some pretty decent damage rack-up options, including the ever so friendly d-throw -> up air -> up air (I honestly dislike this combo more than the HOO HAH)
While Luigi takes the trophy on the boxing game, ROB has both a better projectile game and a better off stage threat.
However, if the Luigi is good at timing power shields and getting in, there is still a very strong possibility of Luigi coming out on top. So with that, I'd probably say that the match-up is, at the least, 55/45 in ROB's favor. Maybe 60/40.
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Mister Eric
Twitch.tv/MisterbeepEric Twitter: @MisterbeepEric
50:50
I think this MU is fun.
Trying to gimp him is fun. Him trying to gimp me is fun.
Anywho, MU notes:
Luigi wins if he get in, he doesn't win if you keep him out.
So it's pretty black and white.
SH nairs and sh gyros will take you far here imo.
SH gyro over his fireballs. If you hop over it, you come out clean, while considerably hurting the opponent. If you take a fireball to the face, you still win the trade. Just practice it, you'll get the timing down. There's a decent amount of lag from his neutral b animation.
Space SH nairs. You'll be pretty much any aerial he has except maybe bair.
Keep the gyro pressure on him to make him want to roll, then nair his roll, fair once, and then BACK AWAY. He will nair you, or get a fair string. Like I said, the entire game here is keeping him out of your zone. Don't do fair strings to him.
If you are grabbed @ low %, be prepared to eat some damage. Whisper to yourself "I'm going to be okay." Lie to yourself, your self-esteem is going to need it. Save your jump. Hibernate with it. Don't spam it. Wait till he does his forward air string. When he's landing to reset the combo by either grabbing, more fairs, or an u air, then jump away then. Maybe even up b away. Either way gtfo. I haven't played a world class Luigi yet. But so far, this has been a combo breaker from good, competent Luigi's.
If he grabs you near the ledge, DI away so he doesn't down throw to spike you.
If you're at higher %s, you have about three options: DI left, right, or not at all. Either way, he's going to get a follow-up on you if he's good enough. If you eat a down b, SDI downward towards the stage. If you don't pop out, at least you didn't get knocked away while above him. It will at least decrease your chances of dying. I think technically he can always follow you up out of dthrow, with just about anything he wants regardless of DI. But if you catch him off guard, he might not hit you with as hard of a punish as he normally would.
The take away from this section, don't get grabbed.
When recovering, do so very carefully. If he likes going off the stage vs you, which he should, stall out your up b with down airs. Pace yourself when recovering low. And don't do it directly below the ledge. Just don't. If you get caught there. Be prepared to eat a dair. If you get down b'd, SDI up & prepare to tech. Luigi is the second slowest character in the game in terms of aerial mobility (reference). He isn't going to really catch you if you recover more from the side. I'll provide a picture for example:
That red 'X' is the sweetspot. Luigi will have a hard time getting to you if you recover from this area. If he comes after you, dair stall then jump + air dodge through him. He will then be forced to focus on recovering himself. Then the tides have turned.
Careful when trying to recover from above with nair. Landing it onto a Luigi with an invincible head (while up smashing) can be devastating to the momentum of the game. I think that's the property he has at least. His whole head loses its hurtbox during Upsmash. Or maybe part of it. I'll need clarification on that.
There isn't a lot else to this MU. Don't miss your downthrow > u air string, you will eat a nair or down b. Not fun.
I think this MU is fun.
Trying to gimp him is fun. Him trying to gimp me is fun.
Anywho, MU notes:
Luigi wins if he get in, he doesn't win if you keep him out.
So it's pretty black and white.
SH nairs and sh gyros will take you far here imo.
SH gyro over his fireballs. If you hop over it, you come out clean, while considerably hurting the opponent. If you take a fireball to the face, you still win the trade. Just practice it, you'll get the timing down. There's a decent amount of lag from his neutral b animation.
Space SH nairs. You'll be pretty much any aerial he has except maybe bair.
Keep the gyro pressure on him to make him want to roll, then nair his roll, fair once, and then BACK AWAY. He will nair you, or get a fair string. Like I said, the entire game here is keeping him out of your zone. Don't do fair strings to him.
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His grab
His dash grab is rly good so respect it by staying very mobile with nairs and sh gyros. If he's within roll distance from you, either do a fade away SH gyro, or do a SH nair, either in place or fading away. W/e you do, don't get grabbed.His grab
If you are grabbed @ low %, be prepared to eat some damage. Whisper to yourself "I'm going to be okay." Lie to yourself, your self-esteem is going to need it. Save your jump. Hibernate with it. Don't spam it. Wait till he does his forward air string. When he's landing to reset the combo by either grabbing, more fairs, or an u air, then jump away then. Maybe even up b away. Either way gtfo. I haven't played a world class Luigi yet. But so far, this has been a combo breaker from good, competent Luigi's.
If he grabs you near the ledge, DI away so he doesn't down throw to spike you.
If you're at higher %s, you have about three options: DI left, right, or not at all. Either way, he's going to get a follow-up on you if he's good enough. If you eat a down b, SDI downward towards the stage. If you don't pop out, at least you didn't get knocked away while above him. It will at least decrease your chances of dying. I think technically he can always follow you up out of dthrow, with just about anything he wants regardless of DI. But if you catch him off guard, he might not hit you with as hard of a punish as he normally would.
The take away from this section, don't get grabbed.
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When recovering, do so very carefully. If he likes going off the stage vs you, which he should, stall out your up b with down airs. Pace yourself when recovering low. And don't do it directly below the ledge. Just don't. If you get caught there. Be prepared to eat a dair. If you get down b'd, SDI up & prepare to tech. Luigi is the second slowest character in the game in terms of aerial mobility (reference). He isn't going to really catch you if you recover more from the side. I'll provide a picture for example:
That red 'X' is the sweetspot. Luigi will have a hard time getting to you if you recover from this area. If he comes after you, dair stall then jump + air dodge through him. He will then be forced to focus on recovering himself. Then the tides have turned.
Careful when trying to recover from above with nair. Landing it onto a Luigi with an invincible head (while up smashing) can be devastating to the momentum of the game. I think that's the property he has at least. His whole head loses its hurtbox during Upsmash. Or maybe part of it. I'll need clarification on that.
There isn't a lot else to this MU. Don't miss your downthrow > u air string, you will eat a nair or down b. Not fun.
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Top Boss
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rob is my go-to character vs luigi. then again, my only other options are dedede, ganon, fox etc XD. but the mu is pretty easy if you can outspace him with fair, gyro and lasers. so yeah, getting up close to luigi is not what you want to do or else he will bop you. playing the keep away game and forcing jumps and whatnot are key to winning, for me at least. also gyro sniping is a good edgeguarder against him c: