R.O.B. Matchup Analysis #21 - Little Mac

[GwJ]

 

[Ze Diglett]

While the meta for Little Mac has effectively turned on its head since the game was new, I still feel like R.O.B. has a pretty sizable advantage here by virtue of range alone. Dissimilar to the likes of Captain Falcon, Mac doesn't have any sort of aerial/combo game whatsoever, which gives R.O.B. a super easy time of things. He can easily harass Mac from across the stage with Lasers if he feels like it and he outranges Mac from a melee standpoint bar dash attack. Many of Mac's options are easily limited/punished by Gyro alone, and once you get him offstage (which is very easy, I might add), he's left at the mercy of WoP/Gyro gimps. Overly defensive Macs can be annoying, but R.O.B.'s grab game tends to screw him over if he stays in shield. Matchup ratio is ~65:35, if not better for us.

 

[Crome]

As long as we can stay on stage and reset to neutral often, we win.

 

[Jams.]

I wrote a ton of stuff about this matchup a while back. I still agree with most of it, so I'll copy-paste it here. Overall, I think the matchup is 60:40 in ROB's favour.

Spoiler

Ftilt and dtilt don't have super armour, just his smashes.

About stages, Mac has options on a lot of the standard stages (assuming 5 neutrals and 4 CPs). Game 1 is probably going to Battlefield (don't get baited into picking Lylat, Mac is good on Lylat), which he can work with. He's going to get put onto a really bad stage game 2 (either T&C, Duck Hunt, or Smashville), and should probably lose. Then he'll get another workable stage game 3. He has a big disadvantage on ROB's counterpick, but has options game 1 and on his counterpick.

I hadn't thought about using gyro OoS to punish his tilts. I'll try it the next time I play against a Mac. IMO it should work on ftilt, but dtilt likely has low enough cooldown that he could shield it.

I think I elaborated more on my first post about his options. Little Mac's high ground speed and low profile makes walling him out difficult because he can powershield and punish from an extremely long range. He also has a higher burst range than ROB; as such, he can stay in the neutral at a certain distance out of ROB's dash attack/SH fair range, and pressure ROB with the threat of dash attack and ftilt. This allows Mac to play a less risky bait-and-punish style which means he doesn't have to go in all the time and risk getting gimped at low percent.

Lylat is good for Little Mac because he traps landings extremely well on that stage, since usmash goes through the platforms. Once he gets stage control, it's extremely difficult to land and reset to neutral. The tilting does mess up even a good Little Mac, but I think the stage control he get makes up for it.

About the Little Mac that wrecked me, he played a set against Raffi in a wifi tournament. It's wifi so not everything is legit, but it does show the matchup at a high level. The strategy of baiting and punishing ROB's projectiles is not nearly as good online because the delay makes consistent powershielding difficult if not impossible. Game 1 is on Lylat, games 2 and 3 he changed to Diddy because of stages.

I also played (and lost QQ) a recent set versus @Alphicans and learned some things about the matchup. Also, I'm totally open to feedback and suggestions; I would really love to beat Alphicans in tournament.

• If you can obtain a decent percentage lead (or a stock lead) and are on a stage with platforms, going for a time-out victory is a very viable option. It's very anti-hype though.
• Hovering with upb is incredibly good in this matchup because Mac's aerials do nothing. You can usually hover right outside of his usmash range and wait for him to pick an option to avoid most of his landing traps. Very useful on stages without platforms. Be careful of Mac's upb if you're around 90-100%.
• This matchup becomes much harder if he's ahead. Don't get impatient and try to challenge him in order to get the kill

I also have some strategies I've yet to apply, but think will be useful.

• Charging an fsmash and angling it low to cover his recovery. Mac's recovery has an awful sweetspot, and even the 6% hit might be able to kill him. This seems like it could cover both upb and sideb, and would significantly reduce Mac's mixup potential on his recovery.
• Using uthrow at lower percents into fair to send him offstage for an edgeguard and potentially an early stock, instead of going for dthrow->uair.

 

[Syde7]

I wrote a ton of stuff about this matchup a while back. I still agree with most of it, so I'll copy-paste it here. Overall, I think the matchup is 60:40 in ROB's favour.


I also played (and lost QQ) a recent set versus @Alphicans and learned some things about the matchup. Also, I'm totally open to feedback and suggestions; I would really love to beat Alphicans in tournament.

• If you can obtain a decent percentage lead (or a stock lead) and are on a stage with platforms, going for a time-out victory is a very viable option. It's very anti-hype though.
• Hovering with upb is incredibly good in this matchup because Mac's aerials do nothing. You can usually hover right outside of his usmash range and wait for him to pick an option to avoid most of his landing traps. Very useful on stages without platforms. Be careful of Mac's upb if you're around 90-100%.
• This matchup becomes much harder if he's ahead. Don't get impatient and try to challenge him in order to get the kill

I also have some strategies I've yet to apply, but think will be useful.

• Charging an fsmash and angling it low to cover his recovery. Mac's recovery has an awful sweetspot, and even the 6% hit might be able to kill him. This seems like it could cover both upb and sideb, and would significantly reduce Mac's mixup potential on his recovery.
• Using uthrow at lower percents into fair to send him offstage for an edgeguard and potentially an early stock, instead of going for dthrow->uair.

@Breadbot is working on getting to be on my "official opinion giver"/ "I cosign whatever he says" status, between this and the stage discussion thread, lol.

On the real though... I agree with the ratio. It varies significantly based on stage, but averaged together I think you've got the ratio right. I also agree overall with the MU synopsis, not much I disagree with. I find Mac to be a very threatening presence at the distance of about 1 char length outside of his DA & in for all the reasons you mentioned. I just feel like nothing I do is actually safe enough to risk & that I don't have reliable options to defend against his stuff, especially when I'm at percents over 90 or so. Not to mention the up+B and KO punch are always a solid mindgame (esp. if the LM knows the set-ups to land it)

Little Mac is one char I don't mind cheesing out.

Also, good points at the end regarding F-smash edgeguard and U-throw->F-air setup to get him offstage.

Random question: What is the active frames on his counter? How long is his cooldown? I always, ALWAYS manage to bait it, but I screw up the timing to punish him whiffing it like 80% of the time.

 

[Lizard_Buttock]

Even if we're talking about a skilled Big Mac that plays defensively, we win this one quite well because we can zone him out and edgeguard him out of his recovery range with gyros or f-airs. Getting Mac in the air where he's essentially defenseless is also a good plan, which can be achieved with up or down throws and. We must remember to be patient and prioritize safety over killing, though - Big Mac is utterly insane in his punish game. An edgeguard against him is much safer than a side smash or a hard read. 60:40 to us, I'd say, 65:35 at a stretch

 

[The Real Inferno]

in the current meta this is 70:30 ROB so long as you know that the opponent is going to play Mac. You take him to Smashville. You stand on the platform. You dont leave. Ever. Dsmash every option he chooses (he cannot usmash through this platform). Do this until the game is over. If you are behind for some reason, well, I recommend you start zoning projectiles.

In actuality, the matchup is 60:40 ROB. Mac can get momentum and punish ROB hard. His dtilt and dsmash can beat our ledge snap pretty consistently and he is fast enough to react to most of our ledge options. You will probably be forced to ledge jump air dodge to get past him at the ledge. Look out for super arm if you want to land with an aerial. A lot of the matchup is baiting out moves then smartly punishing. He does approximately THREE TIMES our damage and about twice our best kill power. The best early gimp setup we have is to bthrow or uthrow into a fair. Fade back into a gyro to finish him off most of the time. Up close, you are in trouble. Mac has a 1-frame jab that does about 12 damage or so. His Ftilt can punch through a gyro and many attacks. Armor makes it dangerous to try and dsmash as he has frame 4 and 5 armor on fsmash and dsmash while our dsmash is frame 7. If you are in the air and need to land immediately, try to come down on the back of Mac's shield with nair. If done correctly, you can block any smash he tries to throw out (though he might be able to hit you with ftilt).

With Customs on, this match doesn't change much. I once again recommend infinite laser since laser sucks so hard for Mac and he needs to maintain a percent lead. Mac might bring his unblockable, super armor Forward B. Don't attack that ****ing move. It kills you early, does like 19 percent or something, and gets him through a lot of ledge options. If it's just over the ledge, gab it, or pivot grab. If you cant do that, I recommend trying to throw a gyo after the punch ends. Spiking can get you hit since it swings overhead. Slip gyo can cause him a lot of problems and high speed burner is great for juggling him right off the level with fair and uair (he has nothing that beats uair, so you can throw it out pretty free all you want)

 

[MintyBreeze]

Sometimes I've noticed that in the air, the Little Mac attempts to counter my attack with a, well, counterattack. Part of me thinks that, besides their U-B and D-Smash, this is a way for them to punish our recovery. If a Mac ever jumps into the air, then, I think this is probably one of the few moves they'd feel like using. I've found that using the shield is very helpful against his bad grab, but I haven't tried Smash attacking out of it either... Seems like it would work.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Addendum: Mac CAN usmash through the smashville platform, but the spacing on it is much more difficult than on battlefield (its a very very small portion at the tip of the move) so be aware of that if referring to my previous post.

 

[GwJ]

Does Mac have a sourspot on his Usmash and if so is that the part that would hit us on Smashville's platform?

 

[Ze Diglett]

Does Mac have a sourspot on his Usmash and if so is that the part that would hit us on Smashville's platform?

The sweetspot of Mac's Usmash only hits on Frame 1 of the attack, which I don't think can hit us from below the Smashville platform.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Does Mac have a sourspot on his Usmash and if so is that the part that would hit us on Smashville's platform?

It can actually still kill at that very last hit, but it is seriously only like 1 or 2 active frames of the attack so a slight hop will dodge it without making you vulnerable every time.