Project M Social Thread Gold

[robosteven]

Then the solution is clear: give Marth a frame 2 jab with frame 12 IASA.

wait, we were talking about Marth the whole time?

grab

 

[SpiderMad]

nah its easy to beat out the fox/falco side-bs if they go high, just hit them. React to the audio clues, its 20 frames until they start moving you just pause for a moment when you hear it and jab/tilt/grab/fast move move on the vertical plane they picked. spacies don't really teleport that much with side-bs, they move pretty evenly (but fast) and the hitboxes dont interpolate because they don't move, just static hitboxes at certain points of his wake

http://smashboards.com/threads/melee-in-120-fps.354534/
And Falcos is faster than Fox's so I don't know how they're both 20 frames, unless Falco moves faster meaning the minimum is 20 frames

People playing smash 4 are mad that these sick ariel cancels are making the game hard to play.

This is why we need games made so we can do cool stuff, without being frame perfect. At this rate, 4 is going to the most technical game in the series XD
This is a direct result of trying to make skill gaps nonexistent, someone breaks/masters the game to create a skill gap.

Ultimately you should design your game with reasonable to perform tech in mind from the start, or vow to patch out everything. The latter really kills the fun tho.

It depends on the tech.

And for whatever reason I'm gonna link Melee tech skill videos again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=238BPPK4xd0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17J6BbaTR18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Pw7dlHhGM#t=77 the hardness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPlP4zvX0lQ and I will always link this

You ever see the intro movie to Sonic CD, or Sonic The Hedgehog OVA? Check out the huge, spacious environments in those animations - that's what I want to run around in in a Sonic game.

That's why I played GTA San Andreas with Flying car cheat.

 

[GP&B]

It's not specifically on here, but it's funny to see semi-useful but overtly strict tech like this get discovered and then all of a sudden see Smash 4 fans saying it's good that the game has strict tech after subsequently bashing Melee for having too much difficult tech. ****'s dumb, man.

Smash being designed with the mechanic of on-hit landing lag reduction would be a fantastic solution. 1-frame windows are stupid though. If someone with an actual grasp on how Smash plays in practice would program the game, we might get somewhere.

 

[Soft Serve]

The fonts changed again, didn't they

so slight that I can't complain, but different enough that I notice

 

[SpiderMad]

Did they? Would explain why I was appreciating how wonderful SpiderMad as a name looks more than I normally do

Smash being designed with the mechanic of on-hit landing lag reduction would be a fantastic solution. 1-frame windows are stupid though. If someone with an actual grasp on how Smash plays in practice would program the game, we might get somewhere.

Why is landing lag reduction on hit better than landing lag reduction permanently?

And PM with 1 frame of buffer goes places, and makes certain 1 frame windows into 2.
But it's a very complex situation.

 

[PlateProp]

Smashboards strikes again

 

[PlateProp]

The fonts changed again, didn't they

so slight that I can't complain, but different enough that I notice

**** you softie

You made me notice

Also smashboards apparently wants me to date asian women

 

[Soft Serve]

TO anxiety is probably the worst stress I've felt

I'm co-TOing a BIG sponsored Melee/Smash 4 event, helped hosted/funded by MVG gaming. The FB page has like 200 attendies, and the prereqs are about 170. But M2k is coming, which means Sky's house is coming, which means socal is going to show up in force, and the whole thing is at a bar-like gaming based place and I was freaking out that we'd be way over fire marshal.

Stress sucks, I get why Alex Strife wants to quit apex every year.

Thankfully the fire marshal limit is 450, and the owners aren't worried about the numbers at all, they are giving us all the space we can take because its going to create buisness and grow the scene more. ****K man, I was freaking out for a few days over it

 

[robosteven]

Also smashboards apparently wants me to date asian women

It's okay, Smashboards wants me to check out this Smash Bros. forum.

...called Smashboards.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It's okay, Smashboards wants me to check out this Smash Bros. forum.

...called Smashboards.

Conspiracy

 

[Empyrean]

At this rate, 4 is going to the most technical game in the series XD.

I cant wait for tas smash 4 matches. They're bound to be interesting.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Just finished spending the last 6 or 7 hours filling out 5 bassackwards as hell job applications...I'm so ****ing sick of job applications right now. Ugh.

 

[GP&B]

Why is landing lag reduction on hit better than landing lag reduction permanently?

And PM with 1 frame of buffer goes places, and makes certain 1 frame windows into 2.
But it's a very complex situation.

To elaborate a bit more, a good compromise if Sakurai absolutely has to retain his hard-on for landing lag. If it were my choice, I'd banish it entirely or cap it at around 6-10 frames or so.

Also, I seriously wish there was at least 1 frame of universal buffer.

 

[SpiderMad]

Also, I seriously wish there was at least 1 frame of universal buffer.

You don't want more than 1 frame. Once 1 frame links become 2 (and thus 2 become 3) they're all consistent enough. Intricate movement (Shield pivots, Moonwalk/Sticky-walking) and other stuff starts to become affected around 2 or more.

 

[GP&B]

Oh yeah definitely. I think just that slight leniency would be perfect.

 

[Paradoxium]

@ Paradoxium Prepararse

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

******

God damnit smashboards censored my censor doge attempt wtf

er, was there a specific purpose to this post or were you just yoloing it?

 

[DrinkingFood]

I used to have really shitty opinions on buffer and difficult tech and overrate the impressiveness of tech skill, particularly back in the days of the smashmods PM forums
But that changed awhile ago because I actually began to have a decent amount of exposure to higher level play and the scene and such. I'd agree 1 frame of buffer would certainly be better than none

 

[Lizalfos]

I feel like pressing buttons makes us a real fighting game.

One is fine but I'd get annoyed by more. Smash 4 buffer also does weird things with what move takes priority, so that is why I hate that.

 

[Frost | Odds]

I'd be really down with a 1-frame buffer. Execution should be as small of a barrier as possible - the mental game should form most of the 'mechanics'.

Edit: Speaking as someone who practices an unholy amount of 1FLs and other super precise stuff. This amount of effort shouldn't be necessary to make your character do what the hell you want him to do.

 

[Hylian]

1 frame buffer would give IC's a bunch of new desynchs :D

 

[Lizalfos]

So is perfect waveland a PM thing only?

1 frame buffer would give IC's a bunch of new desynchs :D

You have a new gif on reddit every other week. This would give you too much power.

 

[GaretHax]

IC's confirmed equally as broken as Hylian with 1 frame buffer.

@Bleck That's my preferred solution as well, though I doubt the Genesis could have pulled it off, sonic was supposedly already pushing the limits of the system at the time. And the only excuse I can think of for modern titles is that they might no longer feel like a "Sonic" game to some, though looking at recent releases that might be the best thing for the series lol.

 

[InfinityCollision]

The fonts changed again, didn't they

so slight that I can't complain, but different enough that I notice

Yup >_>

I feel like pressing buttons makes us a real fighting game.

One is fine but I'd get annoyed by more. Smash 4 buffer also does weird things with what move takes priority, so that is why I hate that.

I find it hilarious that the devs specifically went out of their way to make their ten frame buffer store only one action in SSB4. But it's just one of many such design decisions.

Also one frame buffer for PM would be great, can we please make that a thing?

1 frame buffer would give IC's a bunch of new desynchs :D

I like where this is going.

 

[Saito]

So the cable company came by today to change our internet speed. I was laying down in a different room but I overheard them talking about my brother's background image on his computer which was League of legends. Needless to say they talked about that for about a minute then from what I heard, I figured the guy noticed my brothers 3ds in sleep mode and asked him what game he was playing. My brother said it was smash brothers and then the cable guy said he didn't have it on 3ds but he had the Wii U version.

Now being the cool and composed person that I am I immediately rushed into the hall to creep in the room and say "Is someone talkin smash?" My brother told me to let them do their job so I went to get a drink. They kept working and when I walked back in the hall I offhandedly mentioned "You know, a game takes less than 5 minutes" One of the cable guys said that he was up for it.
I set it up and when he walked by and saw it I figured he thought I was joking.

I asked him what controller he wanted to use and he said he had a controller in the back of his work vehicle (Japanese Smash 4 white controller). He came back and we played smash.

So today I got to play smash with someone on the clock, got his NNID so I technically a training partner out of it, and learned that the company was actually in need of employees, so potentially a job.

Smash is going to get me somewhere in life.

 

[Comeback Kid]

That is a good argument for why ICs shouldn't have a 1 frame buffer, but not why the cast as a whole shouldn't.

I assume it is technically possible to do since the PMDT always say anything is possible with enough effort.

 

[SpiderMad]

That is a good argument for why ICs shouldn't have a 1 frame buffer, but not why the cast as a whole shouldn't.

I assume it is technically possible to do since the PMDT always say anything is possible with enough effort.

They just need to find out how to get custom buffer to take an option slot while not getting rid of crew mode (unless the majority specifically requested it instead of crew mode, which was kind of made to replace custom buffer purposely).

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thre...-and-input-assistance.5732/page-2#post-114382
"We hear the plea of both sides and please understand that we appreciate the trade-offs at play. If we are able to add new game options we would of course attempt to provide the most amount of freedom possible."

I don't think the majority of them want to put custom buffer back in, but I don't blame them (at least for doing it back then). Actually I shouldn't post too much and see where you guys end up in discussion.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Yeah but buffer will never be tournament standard and therefore unacceptable to the sticklers for how to properly play unless the PMDT first say that buffer is a thing now, and you can have the option to shut it off but it is on by default.

Buffer assist could be changed to no buffer as the special option.

 

[Yung Mei]

So the cable company came by today to change our internet speed. I was laying down in a different room but I overheard them talking about my brother's background image on his computer which was League of legends. Needless to say they talked about that for about a minute then from what I heard, I figured the guy noticed my brothers 3ds in sleep mode and asked him what game he was playing. My brother said it was smash brothers and then the cable guy said he didn't have it on 3ds but he had the Wii U version.

Now being the cool and composed person that I am I immediately rushed into the hall to creep in the room and say "Is someone talkin smash?" My brother told me to let them do their job so I went to get a drink. They kept working and when I walked back in the hall I offhandedly mentioned "You know, a game takes less than 5 minutes" One of the cable guys said that he was up for it.
I set it up and when he walked by and saw it I figured he thought I was joking.

I asked him what controller he wanted to use and he said he had a controller in the back of his work vehicle (Japanese Smash 4 white controller). He came back and we played smash.

So today I got to play smash with someone on the clock, got his NNID so I technically a training partner out of it, and learned that the company was actually in need of employees, so potentially a job.

Smash is going to get me somewhere in life.

so what youre saying is, you're not happy sexy timing with this guy

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

1 frame buffer would give IC's a bunch of new infinites :D

 

[Comeback Kid]

I addressed that already, they would be the exception to the rule.

 

[InfinityCollision]

That is a good argument for why ICs shouldn't have a 1 frame buffer

Elaborate?

 

[Grey Belnades]

I just finished downloading 10GBs worth of wrestling gifs...

 

[JOE!]

I just found DDD under dreamland....

clevah

 

[Comeback Kid]

Elaborate?

It's simple really, if a buffer gives the ICs too many new options and infinites like people are suggesting, the buffer doesn't have to apply to them if coding that is possible.

The game can't be improved gameplay-wise because of one character is a terrible reason not to do it. We don't feel like doing it is better reasoning and probably truer.

 

[Hylian]

It's simple really, if a buffer gives the ICs too many new options and infinites like people are suggesting, the buffer doesn't have to apply to them if coding that is possible.

The game can't be improved gameplay-wise because of one character is a terrible reason not to do it. We don't feel like doing it is better reasoning and probably truer.

Er...I view IC's getting new desynch options as a plus, not a minus. It doesn't give them any infinites lol it just give them access to brawl desynchs that they can't do in PM(like hitlag desynch, turn around desynch, RID, etc)

 

[DrinkingFood]

Clearly the solution is to just make our own smash-esque game so we don't have to be hindered by the stupid traditions of smash's historically questionable or even awful design details or certain communities' dumb ideas about valuable gameplay mechanics/skills.
#1buffermovement

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

I think a 1 frame buffer dispute might be the most petty reason I've ever heard to split the community

 

[shairn]

Clearly, having 33ms to input things instead of 16ms is going to make a huge difference.
I'll have to try it out later.

 

[| Kailex |]

more than a month without pm, I want my pm ganon

 

[DrinkingFood]

It's not so much that it makes a difference for things that you can already do, it's more that it makes things that are frame perfect and near-impossible to do consistently possible to do consistently
As far as frame perfect things go, multishining got a lucky break in that it's such a quick 1 frame window that it can be relegated to super precise muscle memory in the form of one movement. But there are lots of other 1 frame window options with so much time in between inputs that you can't relegate it to a single movement of the finger so you kinda just have to get really good at waiting the correct amount of time inbetween inputs.
Like melee samus' super wavedash, it was 42(41?) frames between the down-b input and the left-right input, it was difficult enough to do consistently that the lack of consistency was good enough to use as a mix-up to escape an opponent with respawn invinc lol