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Project M Social Thread Gold

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Okay...now I'm confused. What's the point you're getting across exactly?
Does no more run and gun imply ZSS Blaster's dash cancel (the last remaining dash cancel I think, aside from Wolf's shine in early dev builds) being removed?

It's been in a few versions now, it could be a "mistake" in design choice (my opinion of/c) to remove it in belief of whatever reasoning.

As a Melee Falco main I'm all about my characters involving at least some kind of movement in tandem with the projectiles, Pit and Zelda actually both had options early on (1.0 Zelda AD, Pit in 2.1 had a shorter Arrow cooldown allowing an early SH Arrow to be DJ/WL/AGT'd after before touching the ground) both subsequently were altered to be more or less stationary during use so you just watch them stand there.. which still worked out to be a prominent strategy for any of the top Pits and such standing there to shoot arrows: it doesn't allow for the approach with it.

The projectile should kind of suck by itself and the movement option should be the thing that can make it good; but if they don't want to abide by that architecture for EVERY character like Wolf and Diddy's lasers/peanuts then I can understand. But this was the only dash cancel in the game, with the various specific things tied to that which Oro could pry go on about with how you can't retreat unless you dash dance back or dash roll and such. And to drop through plats you had to dash shield drop which never got around to be utilized by him or anyone)
 
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Kaye Cruiser

Waveshocker Sigma
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Aug 11, 2009
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8,032
NNID
KayeCruiser
Switch FC
0740-7501-7043
Hold on, exactly how are people playing PM online outside of netplay via Dolphin emulation?

Or are you not? I'm kinda confused.
 

King of Hoboz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
442
Location
Lexington, Kentucky
I agree with SpiderMad, I had too much love for that Dash Cancel, even if it was used against me all the time. But, I have hope that they made the move have low lag at the least.
 

Warsaint777

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
1,173
Location
Louisville, KY
3DS FC
3797-7379-6106
Nah, you don't need a good net for PM. Should just go to the weeklies at Through the Decades. I'm surprised I haven't ever seen your tag at events. (Btw, am from Louisville, not Lexington - that's old)
Woah dude you in Lou?? Where do you play ever?

Wait whats Through the Decades??
 
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RelaxAlax

That Smash Guy
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
1,318
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Ontario
I think I'm more hyped for this then Smash Wii U. Probably bc I already know whats in the game and played it and whatnot, and have known since the leaks but.

3.5 makes me feel feels guys, okay.


 

trash?

witty/pretty
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vancouver bc
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????
brawl dair on MK makes sense, though I kinda liked that goofy thing he always had, RIP

logically, he shouldn't need the mobility boost (pretty much made his anti-projectile game negligible at worst, as I've said a million times) and it works as an edgeguarding tool, I'm down for that
 

Rhubarbo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,035
Am I seeing things, or is there a very suspicious frame skip between 2:00 and 2:05?
 

Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
790
Yes. It means dashing after activating neutral B if that's what you're asking. I was making an inference from several pieces of information I have come across. Now that she has a standard grab, as stated on the official site, I would expect some changes to it now that there's less risk to grab follow ups off of neutral B.

"At the moment, we believe our cast to possess tools that are a little too excessive in terms of flexibility, recovery prowess, punishment and more. This means that we are going through the cast and toning down tools and/or traits that may be seen as superfluous or detract from the game's complexity."

I was thinking about this from the "Trimming the Fat" dev blog about it as well. ZSS already has crazy good mobility options. Removing the tether grab without having something to potentially weigh down neutral B's commitment would just make it ridiculously safe to use for grab set ups. I personally don't play the character, so it's just a very basic inference based on the information presented to me and my knowledge that I do have. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Yes. It means dashing after activating neutral B if that's what you're asking. I was making an inference from several pieces of information I have come across. Now that she has a standard grab, as stated on the official site, I would expect some changes to it now that there's less risk to grab follow ups off of neutral B.

"At the moment, we believe our cast to possess tools that are a little too excessive in terms of flexibility, recovery prowess, punishment and more. This means that we are going through the cast and toning down tools and/or traits that may be seen as superfluous or detract from the game's complexity."

I was thinking about this from the "Trimming the Fat" dev blog about it as well. ZSS already has crazy good mobility options. Removing the tether grab without having something to potentially weigh down neutral B's commitment would just make it ridiculously safe to use for grab set ups. I personally don't play the character, so it's just a very basic inference based on the information presented to me and my knowledge that I do have. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
It's a weird world of what's going to reduce or increase the complexity of the game. The grab change to begin with (for whatever reason?) thus being the proponent to then reduce the laser's dash cancel and it's specific options/uses to it.

The laser being under the "excessively flexible" was the opposite of what Oro would say to my statements about out'lasering people; he generally thought even at a high level (my imagined shield drop laser crazyness at a pro Falco speed level) the laser wasn't that good or whatever so idk how you compare and contrast that to excessive (though now with the grab change it pry does warrant a free grabs problem, but we don't know the reasoning of the grab change to begin with that warrants this overall series of changes that will hopefully increase the complexity of the game rather than diminish it)

[10/23/2014 3:13:36 PM] Kyle Barnick: zss laser isnt good enough to warrant what you are talking about mad
[10/23/2014 3:13:42 PM] Kyle Barnick: with the platform cancels
[10/23/2014 3:14:08 PM] Kyle Barnick: going on a platform to laser doesn't help at all, especially on 3 platform stages
[10/23/2014 3:14:49 PM] Kyle Barnick: anyone who outcamps you will do so regardless of those platform cancels, and anyone who doesn't it's easier to stay grounded and force them to the air and deal with ground->air interactions
[10/23/2014 3:15:32 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): what if you could theoretically do the instant shield drop cancel every time
[10/23/2014 3:15:46 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZLCLFrrh5Q&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A#t=1645
[10/23/2014 3:15:57 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): And what about the things it showed for Wolf
[10/23/2014 3:16:10 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): and does that pic look like me
[10/23/2014 3:16:58 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gBDctEu8Hg
[10/23/2014 3:19:17 PM] Kyle Barnick: zss laser is way too damn slow
[10/23/2014 3:19:23 PM] Kyle Barnick: it can't beat out any other projectile basically
[10/23/2014 3:19:47 PM] Kyle Barnick: falco/wolf/sheik/mario/mewtwo will just layer more projectiles before you can finish your first
[10/23/2014 3:20:03 PM] Kyle Barnick: the only benefit to dash cancel is doing pivot lasers
[10/23/2014 3:20:39 PM] Kyle Barnick: it's theoretically possible to shoot faster than falco, but the inputs required are much more difficult and you can't really control ground while you are doing that like Falco can
 
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SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Buffs to lots a chars came from this when top tiers had sick ISAS on dtilts and stuff and Pika couldn't IASA going anywhere but TO the opponents
He was aggro-forced as a char from the roots babbay
You talkin'bout Pikachu's d-tilt specifically only being able to dash forward? I figured out a solution/work-around, and was explained why http://smashboards.com/threads/2nd-...ng-to-dash-back-jc-grab.375858/#post-17897607

The overall thread though I was mistaken thinking about d-tilt's IASA, when M2K was at a local gaming center two times last week he went over a couple different controller things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgiKHotXu7A&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A
I didn't catch the part when he was talking about the specific Dash Back thing like Hax was though when I brought it up, but basically he wants a Control stick that's not loose or something I guess for the Dash back to work all the time as well as this "Neutral down" thing.
 
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Oro?!

Smash Hero
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
9,674
Location
Geneva/Chicago, Illinois
Anyone wants to spoon with me to sleep? The hype is too much
As long as you are willing to be blindfolded while I play 3.5 ;)
Excited for any ZSS changes?
I'm more excited for other characters changes to be honest. ZSS was always a fairly decent character in terms of balance, she just kind of fit into PM better than some other balanced characters like Falcon or Roy.
 

Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
790
It's a weird world of what's going to reduce or increase the complexity of the game. The grab change to begin with (for whatever reason?) thus being the proponent to then reduce the laser's dash cancel and it's specific options/uses to it.

The laser being under the "excessively flexible" was the opposite of what Oro would say to my statements about out'lasering people; he generally thought even at a high level (my imagined shield drop laser crazyness at a pro Falco speed level) the laser wasn't that good or whatever so idk how you compare and contrast that to excessive (though now with the grab change it pry does warrant a free grabs problem, but we don't know the reasoning of the grab change to begin with that warrants this overall series of changes that will hopefully increase the complexity of the game rather than diminish it)

[10/23/2014 3:13:36 PM] Kyle Barnick: zss laser isnt good enough to warrant what you are talking about mad
[10/23/2014 3:13:42 PM] Kyle Barnick: with the platform cancels
[10/23/2014 3:14:08 PM] Kyle Barnick: going on a platform to laser doesn't help at all, especially on 3 platform stages
[10/23/2014 3:14:49 PM] Kyle Barnick: anyone who outcamps you will do so regardless of those platform cancels, and anyone who doesn't it's easier to stay grounded and force them to the air and deal with ground->air interactions
[10/23/2014 3:15:32 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): what if you could theoretically do the instant shield drop cancel every time
[10/23/2014 3:15:46 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZLCLFrrh5Q&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A#t=1645
[10/23/2014 3:15:57 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): And what about the things it showed for Wolf
[10/23/2014 3:16:10 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): and does that pic look like me
[10/23/2014 3:16:58 PM] James Madway (SpiderMad): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gBDctEu8Hg
[10/23/2014 3:19:17 PM] Kyle Barnick: zss laser is way too damn slow
[10/23/2014 3:19:23 PM] Kyle Barnick: it can't beat out any other projectile basically
[10/23/2014 3:19:47 PM] Kyle Barnick: falco/wolf/sheik/mario/mewtwo will just layer more projectiles before you can finish your first
[10/23/2014 3:20:03 PM] Kyle Barnick: the only benefit to dash cancel is doing pivot lasers
[10/23/2014 3:20:39 PM] Kyle Barnick: it's theoretically possible to shoot faster than falco, but the inputs required are much more difficult and you can't really control ground while you are doing that like Falco can
I should have copied only a certain few parts from that quote. I understand the laser is indeed pretty slow. However by removing the tether grab it gives her a large buff in her existing play style. I would expect some form of nerf regarding neutral B or her mobility options. I don't see her mobility options (DD, wavedash, air speed, general momentum, etc.) taking a hit. What I would expect to be a reasonable nerf is some form of adjustment to neutral B. Currently in 3.02 it is transcendent and can be dash cancelled. I would expect neutral B to either lose its transcendent priority, travel even slower, or some form of adjustment to dash cancel. Dash cancel could pose a serious issue if it's safe to commit to and get a grab off of. It could potentially be excessive. Of course this isn't considering other changes in 3.5 to her existing play style, so it may factor in KO or set up nerfs. Iunno, but right now I'm gonna ground my *** to the bed. Can't wait for 3.5 today. Already 12:30 here on the east coast. Woo!
 

_Chrome

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
549
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
As long as you are willing to be blindfolded while I play 3.5 ;)

I'm more excited for other characters changes to be honest. ZSS was always a fairly decent character in terms of balance, she just kind of fit into PM better than some other balanced characters like Falcon or Roy.
So which characters are you most excited for today? Unless it would be spoilers...
 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
Everyone is most excited for wolf to be the best character in the game, they just don't know it yet.
Deep down in their souls they want to see wolves style their way into top 8 of every bracket.


My goal for 3.5 is to get good enough to be able to name search myself
 

Saito

Pranked!
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Anywhere but Spain
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I know i'm just a filthy peasant whose opinion doesn't matter, but can Tlink get a different final smash or something?
 

Warsaint777

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
1,173
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Louisville, KY
3DS FC
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I love all of Mewtwo, Wolf, and Dorf but I don't know who I want to main. I mean, ever since I was a teenager I was agonizing over mewtwo's ****tiness in melee. I guess this is my dream come true and I should seize it?

I know i'm just a filthy peasant whose opinion doesn't matter, but can Tlink get a different final smash or something?
Yeah dude like a cuckoo attack! (means it)
 
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F. Blue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
433
I'm very sad about the reversal on Metaknight's dair. It was hard enough not having it in Smash 4.
 

1FD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
618
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RUINING EVERYTHING WITH EVERYBODY ELSE
You talkin'bout Pikachu's d-tilt specifically only being able to dash forward? I figured out a solution/work-around, and was explained why http://smashboards.com/threads/2nd-...ng-to-dash-back-jc-grab.375858/#post-17897607

The overall thread though I was mistaken thinking about d-tilt's IASA, when M2K was at a local gaming center two times last week he went over a couple different controller things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgiKHotXu7A&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A
I didn't catch the part when he was talking about the specific Dash Back thing like Hax was though when I brought it up, but basically he wants a Control stick that's not loose or something I guess for the Dash back to work all the time as well as this "Neutral down" thing.
So you hold down/forward DURING the Dtilt and you can dash backward on the IASA frames?
Imma check it out and spread this ish if it's doin what I want it to
 

Roxas215

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
1,882
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The World That Never Was
Anyone have any news on sheik in 3.5 other then "She's unintentionally buffed due to the recovery nerf)

Zelda got 2 complete redesigns.GIVE SHEIK SOME LOVING(For the love of god please do something with her side b)
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
Can we be spoiled on exactly how big the filesize of 3.5 is? It would help us prepare our SD cards in advance.
 
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