Project M Social Thread Gold

[trash?]

it has most of the top tier tactics, but with the side effect of having an actually-fun-to-watch neutral

also the second and third place at that tournament were the two most boring human beings on earth, so justin beating both of them was the best-case scenario

 

[Alakaslam]

What u fools all been doin while I was gone?

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

Ssf2 is really fun, but it takes some getting used to because it has no analog inputs. If you use your gcc to play the game, you still have to set a modifier to choose whether you want to dash or walk I think. But the most optimal way top play the game is with a keyboard so you can dash and then crouch the next frame and then select your option the frame after that. It's the same as playing dolphin PM with the keyboard. I really enjoy it. And approaching with dash cancelled tilts is so fun.

 

[DMG]

>Dolphin PM with the keyboard

>keyboard

Spoiler

 

[Lizalfos]

I feel like Sakurai knows how to design a good fighting game. Melee Marth and Falco are designed perfectly. Marth has a long grab and a long sword and he can throw people into uptilt and then tipper. Falco has amazing pillar combos with Shine and Dair, I don't buy that these are just happy accidents.

 

[DMG]

Sakurai also gave us Melee Kirby (pick a throw, any throw. It will ****ing suck)

He gave us Brawl MK and IC's, and Brawl Ganon. D3's cg, infinite, and buffered silliness. DK and Sonic's semi-invincible slant abuse

64 Pikachu vs 64 Samus

He gave us tripping

Ya, he doesn't know what he's doing. He's great at making characters feel like they have a unique personality based on how their attacks work, how they move, etc but hell there's so many balance and viability issues that could have been fixed with 30 min of scrutiny, that it's real hard to say he's a genius of good fighting games


Or put it this way: Melee's engine and options are highly complex, yet Sakurai certainly didn't conceive or work towards that grand picture. He sat down and made characters, but didn't "weave" the cast concerns into each other. If he really did that, it would be hard to miss stuff like Sheik Dthrow. Every Smash game feels that way: you see the work put into individual characters, but good luck if you think a lot of alternative time/effort was put into studying how characters interact with each other.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

Tbf he tried to fix dthrow in PAL.

He also removed flame cancelling for some reason, and then allowed link and toon link to land cancel their neural b in brawl.

 

[DMG]

PAL was the best attempt, and I'm not sure if we know why exactly he put those changes out. For all we know, he might have noticed that those moves were "bugged" from his original design (thought he put in a value of 16 instead of 18 for Sheik's throw, so he goes to fix it. Not because he saw or understood viability concerns or abuse CG's). If he came out with an interview that said "Yeah PAL was different because I got tired working 12 hour days and fudged some numbers", I would probably die. MAYBE, and hopefully, he saw legit balance concerns and tried to do something about it. I'll pray and believe that he intended good work there.

Some stuff was fixed from 1.0 to 1.1 and 1.2 versions of Melee that wasn't necessarily indicative of super balance concerns. That's the only reason I bring up the idea that maybe PAL wasn't specifically or entirely a balance patch. It turned out pretty good though either way

 

[JOE!]

GG metagam

 

[Empyrean]

At this point it's pretty clear that Sakurai isn't intent on designing a good fighting game. Any good thing that happens is usually either an accident or someone else's idea, lol.

-----------------------

In other news, for a second there it really looked like Hax was gonna take it. He starts his matches full-on 20XX multishine grabs, but then breaks apart too damn quickly. I mean, frame-perfect Fox tech skill is great and all, but it makes you wonder how humanly possible it is to be consistent throughout hours of high level play.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

Plz tell me that that was bad vi or sub par sdi.

 

[DMG]

Well vectoring is based on how strong the attack is, so weak jabs probably have miniscule vector values. SDI also seems to be gone or reduced OR also based on how strong the hit is? People can drift out of certain Multi-Hit jabs but that looks more like ASDI or small frames of drifting, than the typical SDI we're used to seeing. Trying to ASDI this might have a miniscule impact, since Luma also moves forward with the jabs. Someone should test the Luma properties and see if that move gets any stronger with damage, or if it has set knockback. You're screwed if that has set knockback or miniscule growth though

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

So you're telling me that rosaluma has a kill infinite that's easy to set up for

A jab infinite wall of pain that takes forever to kill with smash 4's blast zone size

 

[Empyrean]

Plz tell me that that was bad vi or sub par sdi.

VI isn't powerful enough to get out of such weak hits. I'm pretty sure the guy wouldn't have made a vid if it was possible to escape something like that lol.

Just hoping they fix **** like these before Wii U release, hopefully they haven't started mass production of the game or anything. They could always patch it like they did with the ZSS Robin infinite (????)

 

[DMG]

It worked on Sheik, but it may not work on characters with different float/weight values. Also, since the setup was a grab release, not all characters would be affected by it hopefully *different grab release angles and heights etc*

 

[Soft Serve]

PAL was the best attempt, and I'm not sure if we know why exactly he put those changes out. For all we know, he might have noticed that those moves were "bugged" from his original design (thought he put in a value of 16 instead of 18 for Sheik's throw, so he goes to fix it. Not because he saw or understood viability concerns or abuse CG's). If he came out with an interview that said "Yeah PAL was different because I got tired working 12 hour days and fudged some numbers", I would probably die. MAYBE, and hopefully, he saw legit balance concerns and tried to do something about it. I'll pray and believe that he intended good work there.

Some stuff was fixed from 1.0 to 1.1 and 1.2 versions of Melee that wasn't necessarily indicative of super balance concerns. That's the only reason I bring up the idea that maybe PAL wasn't specifically or entirely a balance patch. It turned out pretty good though either way

PAL fixed bugs like dk/samus losing charges if they got hit out of up b, buffed characters that needed it like Yoshi and DK (the up b hitbox changes really made a big difference)
But then he nerfed ganons fair. I think he balanced it off free for all interactions, peaches DA is godlike in free for alls, fox up smash is too good for netting easy kills, stuff like that I guess. He also probably realized how silly it was for only two characters to have actually use able spikes.

Sakurai is still bad at ballance.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

It worked on Sheik, but it may not work on characters with different float/weight values. Also, since the setup was a grab release, not all characters would be affected by it hopefully *different grab release angles and heights etc*

This setup was a grab release, but it's literally just a jab infinite, so the only setup it needs is a moment of outspacing your opponent.

Hopefully this only works on sheik or the first couple hits can be asdi'd and teched

 

[DMG]

Smash 4 just might make the least amount of sense any Smash game has

Pay me

 

[Paradoxium]

GG metagam

I was more astonished that it took that long to reach the side blast zones like wtf, these stages are huge

There is also another infinite Rosalina can do where Luna jabs you while Rosalina body blocks you, Rosalina is like the new ice climbers.

EDIT

here it is

their synchronization reminds me of 2 dancers, so elegant

 

[SpiderMad]

I wonder if Melee's hitstun formula involves Fibonacci numbers

 

[The_Altrox]

GG metagam

That's inescapable?

Either ban her or get that patch out ASAP.

 

[Vashimus]

Melee was made in 13 months, and Sakurai had to pull all-nighters and miss holidays to meet the deadline. The average game takes 2-3 years to make.

Melee was a rushed game, yet is the best game in the franchise. Sakurai is weird.

EDIT: Not surprised at the Rosalina infinites. Sakurai and puppet / duo characters just don't mix. lol

 

[MLGF]

Nope, let it flow.
Let Sm4sh diiiieeeeeeeeeeeee....

No but really, if anyone thought this game would have a semblance of balance...

playsomeothergame

 

[standardtoaster]

i'm bored. anyone want to play smash 4? lmao 1864-9965-4283

 

[Ripple]

PAL fixed bugs like dk/samus losing charges if they got hit out of up b, buffed characters that needed it like Yoshi and DK (the up b hitbox changes really made a big difference)
.

PAL did nothing to samus'charge shot and it did nothing to DK's up-b hitbox

 

[Soft Serve]

PAL did nothing to samus'charge shot and it did nothing to DK's up-b hitbox

I could have sworn the charge loss thing was fixed. Is it a knockback difference? I know there was a good change that made upb better in pal bUT I trust you since you play/played the character seriously

 

[Vashimus]

Pretty sure it was PAL where Charge Shot is lost if Samus gets hit out of Screw Attack. I've never seen that in NTSC.

I don't play DK, so I don't know about him.

 

[Ripple]

the only change between those 2 characters were the loss of extender and DK doesn't lose a charge if hit during up-b. no actual change to hitboxes

 

[MechWarriorNY]

I'm not being a ****. I don't know why everyone in this forum takes it as a personal attack when their idea gets criticism. If I don't like something, tough ****, but I'm not getting angry at you.

...Why, you ask?
Because many Smashers are whiny (wo/man)children who simply cannot or WILL not do anything but project what they want in unreasonably obnoxious ways.
I thought that was common knowledge, is it really not?

Prolly cuz his team didn't have none of the usual top tier and disgusting chars in it.

the only change between those 2 characters were the loss of extender

 

[SpiderMad]

the only change between those 2 characters were the loss of extender

My goodness I forgot about this atrocity

 

[Frost | Odds]

Experimenting with Z Jump and Y Grab for those ez Wolf double/multishines. Not sure if want.

 

[DMG]

Make B jump, Z shine, L grab, and R Smashes

 

[Frost | Odds]

what's my motivation.

 

[SpiderMad]

You guys are the people that get me scared when I go into a tournament match forgetting to take off someone's Tag

 

[DMG]

To Frankenstein your controls to the most severe degree imaginable. I play with default controls, but if you leave your setup, your tag might suffer a dismaying fate

 

[Frost | Odds]

Spidermad: your sub-optimal controls are the real crime here

 

[Comeback Kid]

Smashboards keeps giving me an ad to join some kind of terrorist cell in space. Ad blocker engage!

Damn rebel scum.

 

[GHNeko]

i'm bored. anyone want to play smash 4? lmao 1864-9965-4283

lets go

3308-4591-1971

 

[Soft Serve]

Nazo used to make all the inputs for the GCC controls of his tag like taunt or something, just so people wouldn't use his tag.

@ Frost | Odds If I were to drop melee and only play PM wolf, I'd probably switch to the Classic controller pro and make my controls super jank. Keep one L button as shield, then make one jump, then Make one R button grab and one footstool. I really like the ideal of being able to do multi shines with my left index and my right thumb, and it'd make shine>footstool>shine shine really easy too
Ergonomics for control schemes is really interesting.

The pro controller is the most optimal smash controler imo, other than the face buttons being smaller/not as close as the GCC, having extra buttons is godlike.

 

[wannabe33]

(I write for 25 minutes and somebody reads it for 3? How can I create something worthwhile in that time, and how could you understand it in that time. Why even bother?)

I worked briefly for an SAT tutoring company, so I can shed some light on this.

While it's nice to imagine SAT graders are professors and PhDs who take their responsibilities seriously, that's just not the case -- most of them are grad students and volunteers who shuffle through hundreds of exams a day. They don't have the time or patience to read each essay all the way through, so they skim. They typically focus on a clear thesis statement, a five-paragraph format, and length.

With a few hours' worth of prep, anyone can learn how to pump out a 700+ level essay in a matter of minutes. A scripted thesis, padding, clear handwriting, and purple prose go a long way.