Data Prepare Yourself (Ike Match-up thread)

[PyroTakun]

Prepare yourself (Ike Match-up thread)
version 1.1.5
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Welcome to the Ike Match-Up thread! Before we even get into the MUs, let's talk about Ike and his playstyle in Smash 4 real quick. Ike is a fundamentals character. Things like spacing, conditioning/ reading, and mixups are all required to play Ike effectively. Ike is very capable of punishing players hard, but in return Ike can get punished hard as well; meaning you won't be able to just press random buttons and win (trust me, I've tried.) It's crucial to see how your opponent reacts in certain situations and adapt accordingly to those reactions. So keep all of that in mind when playing Ike, because without those things you won't get far in any MU no matter how favorable it is.

Match-up guide
+2 = Great, very easy for Ike
+1 = Favorable for Ike
+0 = Even, or close to even
-1 = Unfavorable for Ike
-2 = Terrible, extremely difficult​

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| -2 |?:?|?:?|+0|+0|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?
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| -1 | -2 |?:?|?:?| -2 | +1 |?:?|?:?|?:?
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|?:?|?:?|?:?|+0|?:?| +1 |?:?|?:?| +1
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|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?| +1 |?:?|?:?|?:?
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|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?
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|?:?|?:?| +1 |+0|?:?| +1 |?:?| -1 |?:?
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|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?

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Spoiler

"We can punish spin dash, outspace Sonic without leaving anything to really punish thanks to auto-canceling aerials, spin dash itself is risking getting pivot grabbed and chucked into Ike's throw combos, Ike is killing Sonic a whole lot sooner than Sonic is killing Ike, with the shield changes Ike's aerials are even more safe against anything Sonic tries between range, shield stun/push, and low landing lag/no landing lag.


Obviously when Sonic lands a spin dash successfully he's tacking on a whole lot of damage. Its what lets him keep up in the damage race. And if Ike completely screws up a move he's eating a lot of damage there as well. Neither one I feel is gimping the other very much, Sonic probably has a slight edge in flat out gimping while Ike has the Eruption wildcard. The main problem for Sonic is that besides a solid read with Fsmash he's just killing Ike too late: Ike's going to be hanging around with absolutely massive Rage and has a kill throw to boot if somehow an aerial isn't doing it." - @Nidtendofreak

​

 

[Frenzy]

Little Mac is death. Since all of Ike's move are slow, Little Mac can see them a mile away and counter them easily. Been employing frequent grabs to throw little Mac skyward and keeping him up there with up smashes and B.

 

[Monjula]

Little Mac is death. Since all of Ike's move are slow, Little Mac can see them a mile away and counter them easily. Been employing frequent grabs to throw little Mac skyward and keeping him up there with up smashes and B.

I actually haven't had much trouble with Mac vs. Ike. Grabs do work well, and once you dthrow or uthrow him, try delayed air hits so he doesn't counter to get back to the ground so easy (mid % since early percent is pretty easy combo percent. )

Once he gets to 60-70 I kinda camp around the edges and grab/kick him off the edge and he's usually done for, especially if you give him a quick chase.

 

[PyroTakun]

Little Mac is death. Since all of Ike's move are slow, Little Mac can see them a mile away and counter them easily. Been employing frequent grabs to throw little Mac skyward and keeping him up there with up smashes and B.

I've actually had very few problems with Little Mac. Counter, shield grabs, pivot grabs, pivot tilts, and Quickdraw all do wonders in this matchup.

 

[Sol0ke]

Little Mac may have speed and a great ground game, but Ike has range and a better air game

 

[Monjula]

I've actually had very few problems with Little Mac. Counter, shield grabs, pivot grabs, pivot tilts, and Quickdraw all do wonders in this matchup.

I find counters tricky if he's coming across stage, but once it gets into that locked in close range fight it does wonders.

 

[Vinchenzo200]

I went to two smash tournaments over the weekend using Ike, and rosalina,duck hunt were my downfall. Ike definitely struggles with these two characters for sure. I think I may need to find a sub for some of those as I want to take Ike as far as I can take him.

 

[PyroTakun]

I went to two smash tournaments over the weekend using Ike, and rosalina,duck hunt were my downfall. Ike definitely struggles with these two characters for sure. I think I may need to find a sub for some of those as I want to take Ike as far as I can take him.

I can't blame you. I played about 20 matches in For Glory against a Japanese player using Rosalina, only got 2 kills on the guy. I tried all sorts of tricks, and it just feels like Ike has no answers for her and Luma.

 

[A2ZOMG]

So I've seen people ask about specific match-ups, but didn't see any match-up thread. (Please delete this if one exists.)

I haven't been playing Ike too much recently just because he felt too different, but I decided to play him last night in For-Glory and all of a sudden he just made sense.

Anyways, for the moment, I'm looking for specific MU advice for Rosalina. Her and Luma just wrecked me like crazy, Luma for edgeguarding and whenever I approached Rosalina she was able to punish fairly easily.

The jist of what I've seen about playing against Rosalina fundamentally is you want to rush her down in situations where Luma isn't in a position to punish you or in cases where she and Luma happen to be grouped, meaning you would at minimum swat away Luma while approaching. Rosalina herself doesn't hit quite so hard, so eating a few hits from her shouldn't bother you too much. She is also one of the lightest characters in the game, so every hit you get on her is important.

Sometimes, I feel the best response to Luma may in fact be going ham if it means you at least swat him away while approaching. Rosalina is going to easily out-control you, that much is guaranteed. So your best best at coming out ahead is generally calculated risk.

 

[Vinchenzo200]

I can't blame you. I played about 20 matches in For Glory against a Japanese player using Rosalina, only got 2 kills on the guy. I tried all sorts of tricks, and it just feels like Ike has no answers for her and Luma.

Yeah it's quite annoying. I may sub captain falcon for certain characters such as these.

 

[PyroTakun]

Ok, so updated the OP with stuff I found in other threads. Still have to go through and find some more.

Also, if we could keep the Match-up requests/ questions within this thread, that would be great.

Kthnx

 

[VirusDigimon]

Just fought a very solid Jigglypuff for a few rounds and it was much harder than I thought it would be. She's got fantastic range, priority, and ridiculous air speed. She can combo along the entire stage at low percents. First match, I went to 120%, but only had her at 20%. I came back and actually took the first stock. Second stock was similar and ended up winning, but I felt lucky and definitely wasn't a convincing win. She also didn't get much chances to go off-stage, but Ike is most definitely gimpable from Jiggs. She also got a good amount of Rests as punish.

In general, I don't use Fair much in this game because it just doesn't seem as useful to me(in comparison to Dtilt/Utilt), but in this matchup, it is absolutely necessary, simply because, it is the only thing that will hit. Dtilt will go right under her and Utilt is slow(for racking up damage). Even then, Ftilt is very punishable as soon as you don't connect.

Her aerials were also beating out my Nairs, so I would definitely stick to mostly Fairs and back away a little further than usual to balance out her air speed. The person I played with was VERY susceptible to Dairs, within 4 matches, I've gotten 3 spikes(which I consider a lot in this game), two killed and one was very early game and she made it back, but barely. As for Uairs, I found it hard to land one. Bairs are good, but couldn't find much opportunity to use them.

As far as jab attacks, it worked decently and may be a slightly losing trade, but it feels better than shielding and being pressured constantly.
Grabbing was also difficult since she was essentially a moving hitbox. I did a few shieldgrabs, but that was her mistake so I wouldn't count on it.
Dash attacks weren't worth it either.

Smash attacks are also hard to land and 100% punishable. You have to do some crazy reads to get some smash attacks in.
Don't forget that you have Eruption if she misses a Rest.
Counters can work, but she can pretty unpredictable. You may be able throw a Quick Draw here and there for mixup, also.

The good news is that she dies very early. At 80%(70%+ with some charge), you can kill her with USmash and FSmash(even about halfway on the field for most stages). At around 90%+, you can utilize Utilt, Dsmash, Bair, and off-stage Fairs as well.

To summarize. Play more defensive than usual and give yourself more space than usual. Fairs will most likely benefit you more than Nairs in this case. Dtilt is risky in this matchup and not very useful. Every single one of your move is punishable and a lot of your moves are tradable, at best. If you get caught in a bad position, she can pull off actual combos on you, even at mid percents. And if she gets a chance to take you off-stage, you are in deep danger and easily gimpable even if she's not comboing.
Definitely follow her off stage and get as much Dairs as you can if you can get an opportunity to spike at early percents(I've spiked her once from her ledge jump). If you otherwise can't land Dairs, then do Fairs off-stage.
Starting at 80%'s, try and get the kills early with some hard reads, if she's not letting you, then at 90%s, you have a lot more at your disposal.

 

[---]

Please use this thread for discussing match ups from now on, if you feel that there is a certain match up warrants it's own thread please let it be about the match up and not just asking a quick question on how to deal with a certain character.

Anyways, stickied.

 

[Waldox7]

Just wanted to throw it out there for ike vs sonic. Ike can still clash with sonic spindash with quick draw but best to shield or move out of the way instead of trying to jab after the clash since sonic's jab out speeds ike now. Just wanted to throw it out there so sometimes it is best to either move around or counter or prob. a retreating nair if possible. Was a quick check up ( of course they would have other possibilities but just wanted to give ya the idea out there).

 

[Monjula]

I haven't played enough good Bowser Jrs., but I feel as if a good, strong rushdown filled with aerials is the best approach. While he's cannon-charging, doll tossing, or just trying to play general keepaways, he is vulnerable and easily punishable. Ike has a better airgame, especially when it comes to the reach (always love the fairs and nairs).

The clincher seems to be knocking him up and away, then predicting his car recovery and meeting it with a bair.

 

[mistermoo33]

I am not sure how people are playing against Ness but he feels difficult to me. Dash grab feels risky because of PK Fire and it feels like almost anything I try can be responded to with shieldgrab into his downthrow + fair shenanigans. Counter doesn't feel like anything special since Ness can kill you just as easily with backthrow or PK Thunder edgeguarding.

 

[gsninja]

In general, I don't use Fair much in this game because it just doesn't seem as useful to me(in comparison to Dtilt/Utilt), but in this matchup, it is absolutely necessary, simply because, it is the only thing that will hit. Dtilt will go right under her and Utilt is slow(for racking up damage). Even then, Ftilt is very punishable as soon as you don't connect.

This legitimately can't be stressed enough (Really good post overall, too).

Jigglypuff may be the most infuriating matchup for me so far. Her air game is ridiculously strong, and her BAir in particular is powerful compared to what it was before. Ike has the obvious range and power advantage on her, but like VD said, he's easily punishable after pretty much everything he does. Making hard reads effectively will be the X-factor of this matchup, considering how quickly Ike can turn things around from a supreme disadvantage with one well-placed USmash (Thank you for being so light, Jigglypuff).

 

[PyroTakun]

I haven't played enough good Bowser Jrs., but I feel as if a good, strong rushdown filled with aerials is the best approach. While he's cannon-charging, doll tossing, or just trying to play general keepaways, he is vulnerable and easily punishable. Ike has a better airgame, especially when it comes to the reach (always love the fairs and nairs).

The clincher seems to be knocking him up and away, then predicting his car recovery and meeting it with a bair.

That's mostly how I've been handling Bowser Jr. players, and it works out fairly well; I've been beating them pretty consistently.

I am not sure how people are playing against Ness but he feels difficult to me. Dash grab feels risky because of PK Fire and it feels like almost anything I try can be responded to with shieldgrab into his downthrow + fair shenanigans. Counter doesn't feel like anything special since Ness can kill you just as easily with backthrow or PK Thunder edgeguarding.

If you're dashing and see a PK Fire on the way, Shield Cancel the dash and you can roll if they approach. Pivot tilts and grabs will also be good if you're being chased down, and well spaced Nairs and Fairs are probably the best approaches, or empty hops if you feel you're becoming too readable. Unfortunately I've only played a couple Ness players online, so my advice might not be too solid.

 

[ocorena]

So far for me in the many matches I've played online the only characters I still find myself having major issues with are Samus and Toon Link. Toon Link is more annoying to fight than an actual tough challenge, I win most of the time but the process sure isn't fun or easy. Samus seems to beat me out 7 times out of 10 though. Something about her roll length throws off my roll punishes/reads and the projectiles swiftly remind me that I just missed my punish. I also have trouble dealing wither her grab, but I have trouble with all tether grabs so its something I've been working at anyway.

 

[Mario766]

Samus isn't hard to fight if you apply enough pressure and space right. Her grab is also pretty punishable on whiff, even for Ike's slow speed. If she's using grabs a lot, try to approach through the air and when she whiffs you should be able to get a free Nair into anything you have.

 

[critter17]

I'd like to talk about the Ike vs Peach matchup.

So the Peach matchup is a bit tricky, given that Peach can float and wait for you to do something and punish you for it. And even though the turnip pull is slower in this game, it definitely keeps Ike out of bay to reach Peach. My advice is to be more patient than the Peach player. Let her run out of her float and read what she will do upon landing. Also, if you're really good at catching Peaches turnips, then you'll definitely be better off. Reading whether she'll pull out Toad is important too. Space nairs and fairs. I don't know if Peach's fair has more range than Ike's fair, but it seems like they are either the same or one is slightly bigger than the other.

Anything else you guys like to add, please do.

 

[Sol0ke]

Does anyone know how to handle the ditto?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So far, Sonic is again a terrible matchup for Ike. I have no idea how to punish him properly. He's too fast and my recovery time is too much. On top of that, if you try and gimp him, he can use spring to recover, clip the ledge, then use spring again to gimp you instead.

 

[san.]

Again? He wasn't very difficult in previous games (haven't played PM). I reckon it's pretty similar to the Brawl MU, but a little tougher assuming customless: nair spam when Sonic is in the air, wait out and respond to spindash with jabs and feint out responses.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Dark Pit is almost impossible to beat. Range is as good as yours, but he moves faster. Mayo from NDJ (aka Palutenas Worst - Private Dark Pit) mixes offense and defense, LOVES to grab, can gimp you, and is extremely hard to edgeguard due to 3 air hops and mixed airdodges). I have no idea how to take him down at all, but I get punished even when I play defense.

 

[Frenzy]

Okay, someone confirm or deny this, I developed a strategy with Ike that seems to be super effective.

First thing, you have to be facing a character without long range projectiles. So it works on ZSS and Greninja, as those projectiles die out but it sucks against Robin, Link, etc.

Side b and hold it. If you time it perfectly, whether when they leave a shield or are about to attack you or have just launched a projectiles, let go and fly toward them, hitting them. If they shield just in time, start A A A to knock them back. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Dodge roll if they get too close but keep timing side b right.

Eventually they will get really frustrated and start taking more risks, thats when down b counter comes in handy. They'll come to expect down b, so occasional side b instead to hit them when they try to grab you because they think you will counter.

If they get you in the air, side b away. If they are repeatedly hitting you up into the air, don't try to time it, because you're slow, just hit b, your sword while spike their head and ko them.

I honestly starting to think with side B, AAA and counter, Ike can defeat any character without long range projectiles just with patience and proper timing. Especially good against fast characters like Greninja, Sheik and ZSS, who are the bane of slow characters.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

By an extremely wide margin, Greninja is the hardest matchup I've faced so far. I faced elih11 on NDJ ladder and I got bodied.

-Greninja is nearly unpunishable on every attack. Hitlag is nonexistent for all but DSmash
-His Up B (Hydro Pump) gimps Ike's Side B and pushes him away from the stage
-Relies on Water Shuriken from afar. This cannot be punished.
-In addition, a blocked charged Water Shuriken can be followed up with a grab while you're still guarding
-Bair has long active frames.

The biggest impairment is simply he can't be punished and has almost as much range as you do. On top of that, he survived a UTilt at upwards 120%, so he's durable enough to take your attacks.

 

[Sol0ke]

Greninja requires prediction and patience. It's a doable matchup, me thinks.

 

[Yoh]

I agree on Greninja there, its the only matchup until now in which I really feel bad besides Rosalina. Very hard to punish but not impossible, can give you a hard time with up B and water shurikens offstage. On the other hand I think I´m going to feel more comfortable against him and Rosalina on the wii u version because I really need a c-stick here and proper spacing and every punish must hit because they won´t give you many chances, 3ds version just sucks.

Besides Greninja, I don´t like fighting Rosalina it just feels like almost every option you choose is not safe in a neutral game onstage. How do you guys fight her? I always try to keep Luma away or kill him when they are separated and then fight rosalina, but he reappears so fast =/
If Luma stays with her I try to mix up my options but I can´t find anything reliable, only good things I see here is that she is really big and light weight and dies early, also all of Ike´s Moves besides nair do more then 10%, so almost every move knocks Luma away.

 

[Mario766]

One thing I found against Rosalina is that if you can get a down tilt near the ledge, Luma instantly just falls off the ledge because of the way down tilt sends opponents. After Luma is gone Rosalina isn't too bad for Ike because you can space using your disjoint then kill her fast because she's light. One Luma re-appears though you're back to getting around Luma or just killing it again.

 

[NT 3000]

I agree on Greninja there, its the only matchup until now in which I really feel bad besides Rosalina. Very hard to punish but not impossible, can give you a hard time with up B and water shurikens offstage. On the other hand I think I´m going to feel more comfortable against him and Rosalina on the wii u version because I really need a c-stick here and proper spacing and every punish must hit because they won´t give you many chances, 3ds version just sucks.

Besides Greninja, I don´t like fighting Rosalina it just feels like almost every option you choose is not safe in a neutral game onstage. How do you guys fight her? I always try to keep Luma away or kill him when they are separated and then fight rosalina, but he reappears so fast =/
If Luma stays with her I try to mix up my options but I can´t find anything reliable, only good things I see here is that she is really big and light weight and dies early, also all of Ike´s Moves besides nair do more then 10%, so almost every move knocks Luma away.

Pick on luma if the rosa plays defensively and uses luma as a wall. Nair is good for this match up if rosa and luma are together because luma gets knocked away and can still hit rosas shield. If she grab whiffs dwn tilt.

 

[CandyCakes]

Peach kills ike, her dair can our range him and she kills pretty early. Peach bomber will punish us to no end. The matchup is hard

 

[Mario766]

The match-up is much harder than some of the top characters. ZSS is doable at least if you don't get hit by paralyzer. Most of the problem comes from Ike being combo food for most of the cast without superb VI and SDI.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Does Ike struggle against Link in this game? Based on what I saw so far, this match-up looks hard, and it wouldn't surprise me, considering Link's projectiles as well as his vastly buffed properties.

^-^

 

[Mario766]

Ike can punish Link on a whiff, but the projectiles are annoying. It's like DHD but easier to punish.

The worst part about the match-up is gonna be the bomb cancels, get in Link's face.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I got mauled by a Toon Link just now. Dash-pivot Boomerangs and Bomb Spam all day. He has such little hitlag it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to punish him. Ike's large hitbox and hitlag make this a very bad matchup for him. I could not even touch this guy. Christian iTh from Nintendodojo. He literally read my every move and could make a punish for every turn I made.

Retreating nairs and fairs also get punished by his tether grab, which is fast, long, and harder to punish than any other character's.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Got absolutely destroyed by Blacktwins' Pikachu on NDJ. Seriously guys, if you want a real good challenge, I suggest going to the Ladder on Nintendodojo. You'll quickly see what these guys are about.

 

[san.]

I might give it a few shakes or at least once the Wii U version comes out. Don't think it will really help all that much for me until the meta matures.

 

[PyroTakun]

I'm honestly not going to be able to help out too much with MU advice until the Wii U version comes out. I'm just playing the 3DS version pretty casually now.

 

[Sol0ke]

Yeah the 3DS version is just for practicing I don't see it being relevant after Wii U.