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Post Your Videos Here To Get Them Critiqued

Discussion in 'Samus' started by Corigames, Dec 26, 2007.

  1. zDuck

    zDuck Smash Journeyman

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    For the matchup, you shouldn't try to run away from sheik. You have to stay in close quarters or she'll just throw needles at you and push you to the edge. Shielding needles is actually fine as long as you're close enough to put pressure on afterwards or far enough away that they can't punish you. You were doing great until you tried to fight her at long range
    JerkPhil likes this.
  2. ycz12

    ycz12 Smash Ace

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    Cool, thanks Duck. I guess I'm not super comfortable being in Sheik's face, but I'll just have to get used to it.
  3. JerkPhil

    JerkPhil Smash Journeyman

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    Thanks Duck for your input. I'll try staying close to Sheik as well. It's one of my most troublesome match ups, even though it's PAL. I can't imagine what a pain she's in NTSC...
  4. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    There really arent that many options sheik has when approaching you... run up grab, run up dash attack are both covered by a ftilt, the only option on the ground that is annoying is run up sheik to bait out an attack to then get a grab, in which case you can just wave dash past for a low angeled fsmash shield poke, or away to reestablish neutral game. The only other approach you will see is short hop fair, which you can CC dsmash, or short hop needle into fair/grab, which you can just wave dash past into a rising nair or dash attack. Sheik dominates this MU when you are off the stage, and gets free fairs off of grabs, just watch what she is doing, and being in close quarters shouldnt be too hard to get used to.
  5. ycz12

    ycz12 Smash Ace

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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  6. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    Lol you suck Leon, jk, and you did so well against Gahtzu game 1, but you got way too aggressive for the rest of the set and flubbed essential edgeguards. As for DJN, he knows the samus match up way too well, so you just need to take your line of thinking one step further than you normally would, (you think you are going to catch him with a rising fair from the ledge, but DJN expects and knows that's one of samus's few ledge options, so he is going to wait with an Fsmash, so you bait out the fsmash first and then punish accordingly) DJ plays very reactionary to this opponents, and if he knows exactly what you are going to do, you need to modify your game plan going in.
  7. JerkPhil

    JerkPhil Smash Journeyman

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    I was disappointed in the PS counterpick against Gahtzu. I would've liked to see you taking him to a smaller stage where he can't run away.
  8. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    That really depends on the samus player and how comfortable they are in the neutral vs edgeguarding game, should they not be as comfortable in the neural game against a faster opponent, a smaller stage would pan out worse than a large stage like pokemon stadium in which the samus can space with missiles and make their opponent less comfortable moving around.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  9. 343

    343 Smash Cadet

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    I think Leon just really likes Stadium (remember ycz vs Lord at Lanhammer?)
  10. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    He does really like pkmn stadium lol
  11. 343

    343 Smash Cadet

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WECQFq5dj5k near 42:30

    I played ok for the first two stocks, and reaaaally badly for the second two... I think I was (1) too aggressive (kept trying to approach/trade aerials, and I repeatedly did attacks from the edge instead of other getup options), (2) was above him too much, (3) recovered poorly /slowly [allowing him to get charge]

    (maybe it'd be good to critique Sing as well, since I'm sure he made mistakes I didn't capitalize on)

    also, how do I dodge missiles :(
  12. JerkPhil

    JerkPhil Smash Journeyman

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    I just watched those :p
    In dittoes it's even more important to act faster than your opponent as they've got the exact same move set with the same frames. The only difference is the player's reaction.
    Practice your actions out of shield as I saw you miss many opportunities to punish. You were either too slow (standing in shield too long) or too fast (rolling).
    Never approach with aerials when they're grounded.
    Samus should always try to face the stage when recovering to give us the option to grapple recover.
    You can dodge missiles with airdodge into grapple recovery when they are shooting low missiles close to the stage.
    I think you know Samus can clank missiles with dash attack and immediately punish. (this is useful against reflected missiles too)
    Other than that, there's nothing wrong with shielding missiles (or preferably powershield) if you act out of shield fast enough.
  13. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    Jab, tilt, bomb, nair OoS, uptilt, fair, another missile (both smash and homing) all cancel out missiles, I did get to play sing in doubles, and he was just overwhelmed with how agro I was towards him, I didn't get to play him in singles though. and I'm surprised with the number of sami there were at NSA2
  14. Jagoffian

    Jagoffian Smash Apprentice

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    I had the opportunity to get bopped by MacD the other day (sup McCain. I know you namesearch now <3). This is the matchup I've been struggling with the most lately, so I'd really appreciate any advice.

    http://www.twitch.tv/kboosy/b/516872950?t=30m

    You can also scrub ahead to see other matches. It was hard to pick one because they were pretty much all 2-stocks, lol.

    I also played against a Falcon/Marth. Would appreciate critique on these as well :p

    Falcon: http://www.twitch.tv/kboosy/b/516872950?t=200m45s
    Marth: http://www.twitch.tv/kboosy/b/516872950?t=216m50s
  15. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    Dude this is the only advice I can give you, slow the **** down. You have a great amount of control over your character, but it looks like you are playing the same way against every single opponent, you need to think as a samus main, and understand your opponents intentions. The way you are playing is almost auto pilot trying to better playing on McCain, and that isn't going to happen, they are going to get a read on your patterns and start destroying you after a few matches. Another useful thing samus has, (along with the rest of the cast) is something called a shield, and believe it or not, its super useful to use lol.
  16. Jagoffian

    Jagoffian Smash Apprentice

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    Yeah, I'm working on playing more conservatively and not constantly running into ****. (disclaimer: I watch a lot of IHSB vids). Are you simply telling me to play more defensively with the shield comment, or do you recognize certain situations where I should shield instead of doing something else? I'd rather you clarify instead of just leaving a snide comment. >_>
  17. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    The biggest problem with IHSB game was his complete lack of neutral game, he ran around the stage in seemingly random patterns throwing out moves in hopes that his opponent would follow and then run into them. There are many instances in all of those matches where you should have used your shield, but primarily you want to be dash dancing around into shield, or wave dashing out of a dash dance into shield when you believe your opponent is exiting their neutral game in an attempt to attack you. If seems like up B is your best friend, but characters that are not as floaty and slow as peach will bait it out from you and punish you from doing it as much.
  18. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy Smash Apprentice

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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  19. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    learn to wavedash, dash dance into sheild, crouch cancel down smash, don't just standing missile on the ground, and get better control of your character
  20. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy Smash Apprentice

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    could you clarify some of that for me?

    Am I wavedashing wrong? I do use it.

    I thought this was a bad idea against marth. I've done this a lot before and ate a lot of movestrings because of the cc. Am I missing something?
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  21. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    You are constantly jumping around instead of dash dancing into wave dashes into f tilts, or dash dancing into shield, just watch this match and look how drastically different your movement is from Hugs, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXVxL5hN-Zw

    As for the CC downsmash, the thing about marth is you can only CC hit moves when they are not tippered up until like 70-80 percent... if any of marths sword based attacks (for the most part) hit you with the tip of the sword, you cant CC it, thats why you need to get on marth instead of just jumping at the marth with aerials and losing to the priority of the sword.
  22. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy Smash Apprentice

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    Alright, thanx man. I appreciate the help. I've been trying to slowly crawl my way out of scrubdom.
  23. JerkPhil

    JerkPhil Smash Journeyman

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    Another thing, you need to DI out of Marth's comboes. Cover your approaches with missile cancels.
    And yes, as KLit already mentioned, learn to control your movement better :)
  24. 343

    343 Smash Cadet

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDlKfG4qaU4

    Maybe it's poor etiquette to post a match I won, but I feel like I did a looooot of dumb things.

    There are the obvious "tech" (if you can even call it that) mistakes... missing wavedashes and rolling instead, failing to wd to the ledge, airdodging off the stage, missing shorthops/fastfalls, etc. I should obviously work on that stuff :(

    But I'm more interested in hearing comments on my decision-making.

    Neutral game:
    I'm pretty sure I did a ton of unsafe moves on his shield (charged fsmashes against his ledgedash, jab->dsmash on his shield, etc); what should I replace them with? Jabs/spaced ftilts? (Argh, wish I had a recorded match vs not a Luigi to ask this about... I wish I knew what characters could punish which moves on shield, heh) Should I just try not to get in a position where my opponent is shielding right next to me? What should I do when he's at high percent and I want the kill?

    Edgeguarding:
    ycz pointed out that vs Luigi I should probably try to edgehog more (I kept uptilting because it worked at first... but he wised up, whereas I didn't adapt :/) I have a more general question about edgeguarding that I'll post separately, I guess.

    Recoveries:
    Other than that really dumb upb on Battlefield, when did I do stupid stuff while recovering? How should I be mixing things up?

    Movement:
    I seem to be standing still a lot, except at the wrong spacing. Ugh.

    Thanks in advance for all comments!
  25. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    There is a place and time for Up Bing, and up B OoS, and you do not have any grasp of when the proper time to use it is. You realize that when you do it... if they SDI, or CC it, you are putting yourself in a horrible position. Also... luigi, can't pressure your shield at all, for you to have to Up B OoS, just wd back OoS into f or d smash. As for yourself, you use jab pressure, but after 1 or 2 jabs you just dsmash at an unsafe distance... which a good luigi could see and wd in, into up b on you for an early kill. This opponent just fell into what you were throwing out, but when you play someone with half a brain that thinks about what you have done and what you are doing, you are going to have a bad time. I just watched the first match, and maybe someone else will come on for a more full critique, but from what I saw this is what you need to work on... when and where to missile, double jump missile cancels, the meaning and purpose behind jab pressure (not sure if you are using jab cancels, if not add them to the list), when and where to up B OoS, other OoS options like wd back OoS or Nair OoS, and you need to throw in a few more grabs.
  26. 343

    343 Smash Cadet

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    Good point; I definitely up b wayyyy too much. What I'm not sure about is... which up bs are bad? Obviously there are some that I mis-space thinking that they'll keep moving forward (that's a bad read that's easily punished, I suppose), but should I, for example, not try to up b falco during dair/shine shield pressure because he's probably pressing down?

    Yeah, I'm still working on jab cancels :| And I really need to practice jab (x n) -> ftilt / grab. What are other followups after jabbing? Sometimes I try wding behind them but just get hit lol.

    Thanks!
    I definitely need to work on missiling at the right time/place. I feel like sometimes I mindlessly drop off a platform and missile, even when it's punishable :( And I definitely do need to work on dj missile cancels... is BF the only stage at the right height for that, or can I also do it on Dreamland?
    And maybe I don't know the "meaning and purpose" behind jab pressure... what is it exactly? (Is it just to make them scared? Trying to get shieldpokes? Trying to hit them? Is it good to do when they're at low percent? high percent?)

    Finally, yeah, I should have definitely tried some other oos options, heh
  27. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    Well to start, you have to think about what works in that match versus, what would work in a match against a better opponent. So really no up Bs were necessarily bad, but there were a few were you did them to an approaching opponent before they even touched you, which could easily be avoided and then punished. Thats why its not normal for people to ask for critiques of matches they won. And when you start playing the higher level spacies, they will try and get you to up b by baiting it out, and then punish you, so having other OoS options tells them, that you can't just bait Up B out, whenever you want.

    Follow ups for jabs: grab, walk past shield into reverse low angled fsmash, walk into center of their mass bomb on their shield into dair, or bomb on their shield into wd back to ground into more jab pressure, so many options lol, ect...

    No with dj missile cancels you can missile spam on ANY platform height, just a matter of timing and spacing with the jumps, you can do it on any stage, and any platform, even the top platforms on battle and dreamland.

    You are jabbing at their shield, so they can't just do anything out of shield and to catch them doing so, so if you jab them the first few frames jumping OoS, then you get a free down tilt or smash, but if they are staying in there letting you jab, its a time for you to understand their capabilities as a player and see what they will do, if they will roll, try to grab you, do something technical OoS, ect... and if also conditions them to stay in shield because you aren't being super agro and are slowing down the pace of the game.

    OoS options: Up B, nair, wd forward or back, shield drop on platform, jump, bomb OoS Up smash OoS
    ^ so as you can see, there are a ton of options, so don't let your opponent think you are just doing the same one over and over and let them adapt to what you are doing. But some pressure requires the Up B OoS, because how tight of a frame window you have to do anything, and it will be the safest option for you.
    343 likes this.
  28. .tea©

    .tea© Smash Journeyman

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  29. ycz12

    ycz12 Smash Ace

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMgEBuAaShE

    Just when I think I might understand the Sheik matchup, KDJ comes along and almost JV 4-stocks me. Ugh.

    Against him I feel like I just get completely shut down, and the only way I can land anything is to just make a hard read. I think I may be approaching the matchup wrong...
  30. ManoxMano

    ManoxMano Smash Journeyman

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    I think you played well. The thing is for 60% of the set you were offstage, on the ledge or having your back to the ledge so you were forced into a position to have to make those hard reads, or else kdj was just gonna keep choking you. He seemed to have a really good understanding of what you wanted to do (he called a lot of stuff on your Out of ledge options) so being in the position you usually were in must have been like choked

    I feel the shield pressure was a but lacking. 2:12ish, that shield pressure was great; but the other things that I saw like dtilt, or ftilt (only when it was mispaced) seemed to get wd>grabbed almost everytime.
    I also feel you were playing a little too hot, too rushed. I felt a play-style that was thinking "I need some control and I need it NOW" and KDJ just fed off of it. Watch the whole sequence at 2:55. Slower paced playing..and then capitalizing on kdj being stupid. I feel like to invade sheiks danger spacing (where getting grabbed or sh>crap can happen immediately) you have to play really careful, and to bait something out. Strong patience, that's what 'Kaze told me when i asked about this MU

    So yeah, try always to keep and respect sheiks space control in your mind, slow it down a bit, and also, safest shield pressure is jab (random amount of times) into grab. Eg. jab>jab>grab, jab>grab.

    EDIT: your play at the last few stocks at game 2 was really great. Like, the only time where I saw issues was after you got comboed, but getting smacked hard is kind what happens in this mu..
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
  31. zDuck

    zDuck Smash Journeyman

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    I know this was posted a very long time ago, but I wanted to add my 2 cents since I also used to watch a lot of IHSB videos (and I had no idea how he was beating anybody). When you're watching his videos watch his positioning relative the opponent (including what direction the opponent is facing). He takes advantage of samus's mobility on platforms to put himself in positions where it's very uncomfortable for the opponent to hit him, this puts him in a really strong place to counterhit his opponent. He heavily punished people for trying to do moves. This is an approach that I don't think any of the other samus's have replicated with the exception of sometimes plup. The weakness to this strategy is when his mobility is taken away (see IHSB vs. lambchops) he gets shut down pretty hard.
    Jagoffian likes this.
  32. JerkPhil

    JerkPhil Smash Journeyman

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    IHSB has a similiar style to Jeapie's Falcon. That is outspeeding and confusing your opponent, and getting into their heads and tricking them into thinking they can punish you.

    (Jeapies Falcon is probably the fastest and most technical in the world. Amazing to watch!)
  33. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy Smash Apprentice

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  34. 343

    343 Smash Cadet

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    FASTFALL YOUR UP-BS! (and other moves, for that matter).

    Falco:
    For out-of-shield options: look at KLit/Barbie's post http://smashboards.com/threads/post...t-them-critiqued.132947/page-41#post-16683102; for "correct" Falco shield pressure, up-b/roll are the safest options. vs lasers, stay in shield; if they seem to be following up lasers with attacks, shield the attack and then do something, but if they go for laser->grabs, try mixing in some spotdodges/up-bs.

    General things:
    You spotdodge in weird positions a lot. Spotdodges aren't as good vs Falco's dair because it lasts a long time; personally I prefer spotdodging vs Falco only if I'm predicting a grab. Also, don't try to spotdodge lasers o_O (happens around 1:00:00:18) In general, if you spotdodge this much, better players will just wait for your spotdodge and then punish.

    When you miss techs, you tend to get-up attack a looooot.

    Your movement is a bit slow/choppy--you get caught in things like run turnaround animation, fulljump slow-fall, etc a bunch. You also walk a loooot, which might not be necessarily bad, but it's slower/more predictable. Work on movement; try adding wavelands, longer wavedashes, etc to your game.

    You do a lot of airdodges onto the stage--why? If they're close by but far from the ledge, it's probably safer to go for the ledge. Also, don't get hit by Falco's forward-b.

    A bunch of times, you walk under Falco on a platform. I'm pretty sure that's just a strictly bad position for you, since nothing beats Falco's dair. Stay under a different platform and charge or wait or something.

    Work on your missiling--see Barbie's post and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00HEzWiSmpM. You cancel a lot of your missiles, in the sense that you hit the ground and don't shoot the missile :( :(

    You do a ton of dash attacks. They're not bad, but if shielded/whiffed, are very very easy to punish. In the neutral game, you should probably try to stay away from dash attack as much as possible.

    Individual sets:
    vs first falco:
    The first Falco seemed to just laser pressure you for a bit to wear down your shield, and then approach and hope for a shieldpoke/mistake by you. He also got some pretty good dair techchases on you--try DIing away?

    Vs a laser-heavy Falco, I'd suggest against going to Stadium/FD--they can just camp you from across the stage (less so on Stadium, but it's not fun to have a Falco just lasering you all day...)

    Your up-b at 1:03:46 is inexplicable (how could it possibly hit him?), but then again I do that sort of crap too :( Try wavedashing out instead.

    vs second falco:
    You got daired a bunch for recovering high and doing a airdodge/doublejump. Go for the ledge. Also, you don't seem to like airdodging before you grapple? It can help you aim.

    around 1:14:45 you do some up-air -> missiles, but the missiles have no chance of hitting. :/
    at 1:15:25ish you go for a really weird nair off the stage when the Falco has already returned... and then you up-b onto the stage right in front of Falco :( why??

    vs marth: I don't really like FoD vs Marth... the platforms are really good for Marth. Work on your spacing and DI out of combos. Predict grabs and spotdodge them. Also, your one goal in this matchup is to never be above Marth; he didn't even juggle you much, but you got hit a lot :/ Ftilt more. HugS really likes wavedashing out of shield into shield vs Marth (basically shield with one of L/R and wavedash with the other.)

    You could've recovered vs that last down-air if you grapple -> walljump -> upb'd :( I'm pretty impressed by your "sweetspotting grapple without airdodging."

    vs fox: upthrow vs fastfallers!!
    You should be able to upb a fox dair. Also, your upbs that didn't land on platforms and didn't get fastfalled were punished every time.

    You seem really impatient about throwing out moves (dash attack, fsmash, grab, etc) and just get punished for them. Spend a little time spacing yourself, see how he moves, etc.

    Also, watch good Samuses (Plup, HugS, Duck, Darrell, etc) and watch what they do :)
    BillNyeTheSamusGuy likes this.
  35. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    343 in the year and a half I have been on these boards, I have never seen such a well constructed and through critique and I am sure it is greatly appreciated by BillNyethesamusguy. You seem to be getting a much better grasp of the character and the advice you give is very good advice, I really do hope we get to play soon since you are in New England as well.
    BillNyeTheSamusGuy likes this.
  36. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    Here is the best advice I can give you, never stop moving, when you stop it limits your options and tells your opponent exactly where you are going to be for them to set up an attack, you up B WAYYYY too much. The next thing, LEARN WHEN TO FINISH OUT YOUR OPPONENTS STOCKS AND HOW! Low angled forward tilt, low angled fsmash, and up tilt are YOUR BEST FRIENDS when it comes to edge guarding, use them! Next time you post a video, ill give you more to work on but those are what you need most in your game ^_^

    *As for your question with with to do against agro marths, if they are being agro with aerials... just shield and nair OoS, or if they dont tipper their fair, you get a FREE CC DOWNSMASH :)
    BillNyeTheSamusGuy likes this.
  37. 343

    343 Smash Cadet

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    Thanks :)

    Unfortunately I just graduated and I'm moving to norcal next year (along with ycz), so I probably won't be going to another New England tournament in a looooong time :(
  38. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy Smash Apprentice

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    @343 @Barbie THANKYOU SO MUCH GUYS. I'll definitely be on my homework Barbie, you'll see the movement and edgeguarding when I get more sets filmed/streamed.
    Barbie likes this.
  39. Barbie

    Barbie Samus

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    Location:
    CT
    Ah well thats too bad, if you wanna play for a day before you left, ycz included, id be down for a samus royal for a send off of two of our NE samus players
  40. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    147
    also @343

    I'm mad fearful of dairs and people doing stupid stuff to eat my tether. Falco dair, marth standing atks and dair have all hit me pretty consistently. (It is the most depressing thing when a spaced dtilt takes the tether before i even hit the ledge).

    yea that up b was meant to follow the falco dair with the assumption that I had shielded it in time (yknow which hadn't happened). I often upb during shield stun so I have a habit of inputting upb multiple times. Any tips on upb out of shield? How big is the window to perform it if you're being pressured.

    I predicted he would go for the ledge and was apparently wrong. I feel like the spacies are mad limited in their recovery but I always manage to leave holes in my coverage for them to get back through.
    Last edited: May 20, 2014

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