Post your Tourney rules here!

[The_NZA]

Hey guys/tourney organizers.

I'd love to hear about what tourney rules you guys have been hosting so far in PM. Feel free to cut past the filler that we all do––I'm most interested in hearing what stages you have been using as neutral and CPable. Finally, I'm curious how you guys rule in cases of suicide kills. In brawl, ganon always was a loss or draw, but in this game i've only seen ganon's side b act as a Sudden Death. I know in Brawl, because Bowser's side b resulted in a win or draw, he'd usually be awarded the win in tourneys. What's the general consensus on this issue?

 

[MonkUnit]

There was a thread a page back about stages http://smashboards.com/threads/official-stage-q-a-and-discussion.331671/​

​

As for the sudden death thing, to me at least, whoever initiated the suicide move wins the match.​

 

[Tero.]

​

As for the sudden death thing, to me at least, whoever initiated the suicide move wins the match.​

this

i wondered: didnt they include that in PM? or was it not possible coding-wise?

 

[standardtoaster]

sudden death from things like that have not changed

 

[dookdigity]

In AZ we made our own stage list.

Neutrals:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Dreamland
Fountain of Dreams
Yoshis Island
Yoshis Story
Draculas Castle
Pokemon Stadium 2

Counterpicks:
Warioware
Green Hill Zone
Rumble Falls
Metal Cavern
Pokemon Stadium 1

We are going to test it out in tournament this weekend.

 

[Ace55]

As for the sudden death thing, to me at least, whoever initiated the suicide move wins the match.

Never really understood that. I'd say on any sudden death without time-out either play out the SD (removal of random bomb-ombs would be nice) or do a 1 stock 2 minute rematch.

As for my ruleset I've been lazy and liberal, I've taken the bottom row of page 1 as starters and the rest of page 1 as CP minus SSEJungle. 4 stage bans a piece.

 

[The_NZA]

Playing out SD's is really bad as it is almost random.

 

[dookdigity]

Yeah, Sudden Deaths are pretty 2008 Brawl status. Also,I agree that whoever caused the suicide gets the win.

 

[Ace55]

Still not hearing the reasoning behind it. I choose to kill us both at the same time, so I get the win? If anything I'd think the other way around would make more sense.

And unless you mean the annoying bomb-ombs that spawn after a while there isn't really anything random about getting the first hit.

 

[The_NZA]

It comes down to play and counter play. If ganon forward b's in a way that will make you plummet to death, he is either
a. in the case of doing it randomly away from the stage, putting himself in a lot of danger at personal risk
or
b. exercising a recovery option that limits other options, is extremely easy to predict (because he's using it likely as a way of recovering back onto the stage), and it is slow enough to respond to

There is counter play in both situations that is reactionary, and where risk weighs equal to reward. In the first instance, which is way unpredictable, if he screws it up he is completely dead. But if you see it coming, you can react by attacking him out of it, evading him, or even air dodging in place (or upward). It is no different from falco, in a 1 v 1 stock situation choosing to down air you away from the stage, securing his and your death (only he will die a second after you because the spike will send you there faster).

In case of b, where there is no risk to ganon because if he doesn't hit you, he's going to get to the stage safely, you should always see it coming. Anytime ganon forward b's to teh stage, you should have a response ready because its one of his preferred ways of recovering. This doesnt necessarily change from stock 4-1.

We should always play to maximize the amount of options as long as suitable counter options exist. In a case where the game decides a draw, making it result in ganon's death means we've reduced the amount of options.

The only option added is that ganon can't side b on his last life because people might purposefully run into it. Ganon has no counterplay to people running into it, therefore, ganon will stop side bing.


Sudden Death is always random because whoever gets the first hit is often a game of luck where some characters are playing with slightly rigged decks. ganon and bowser are slower in their options than fox and sonic.

 

[Oracle]

Making ganon lose for ganoncide means that youre punishing the ganon player for landing a move, which shouldnt really happen.

 

[standardtoaster]

yeah that's definitely not a good idea. if the ganon player is recovering to the ledge with sideb and someone jumps off to grab the ledge they'll get grabbed and dragged down. makes no sense to have the ganon player lose because of that

 

[Arcalyth]

In my tournaments we have every stage legal except SSE Jungle, bottom row for starters, 4 bans.

 

[Kati]

Likewise, in Ganon's case, the opponent is under him as they plummet, so the victim crosses the ko-boundary first (not that the game cares). This example can't be applied to DDD or Kirby though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

In my tournaments we have every stage legal except SSE Jungle, bottom row for starters, 4 bans.

Four bans to each player or four bans total?

 

[Arcalyth]

Four bans to each player or four bans total?

Strike 122112
Winner bans 4
Loser counterpicks
(apparently here is where the character CP is supposed to go??)
play next match
winner bans 4
loser counterpicks
[repeat for game 3 if needed]

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wait so why is FD a starter?

 

[Arcalyth]

Are any other stages in the game as deserving? Every stage has some gimmick or another.

I'd personally like a medium-sized stage (around Battlefield's size) with only two platforms like PS2. I think that'd be a better starter than FoD.

I wish splat's Bowser's Castle was like that. And that it was officially released.

 

[Rat]

My favorite format so far has been.
$1, Random Characters, Best of 1, Random Stage.

 

[Ace55]

Sudden Death is always random because whoever gets the first hit is often a game of luck where some characters are playing with slightly rigged decks. ganon and bowser are slower in their options than fox and sonic.

Heavily disagree, there is nothing random about getting the first hit, not a thing. Obviously fast chars would have an advantage, not a random one though. The bomb-ombs are the thing that ruins it for me. So
i'd go for one stock two minute rematch on the stage where it happened.

 

[The_NZA]

Heavily disagree, there is nothing random about getting the first hit, not a thing. Obviously fast chars would have an advantage, not a random one though. The bomb-ombs are the thing that ruins it for me. So
i'd go for one stock two minute rematch on the stage where it happened.

If a game resolves in a tie (as is indicated by a sudden death) and the game decides the only way to choose a winner is through sudden death, and you admit that "fast chars would have an advantage", how does that not make sudden death a stupid indicator of the winner? Fine, it's not random, because you can predict that the winner will be who lands the first hit, but seeing as some characters are so much better at doing that than others, then maybe its a bad way to choose a tie breaker?

I could also have a tie breaker won on the basis of "who can do 3 laps on Final D first," and while the results wouldn't be "random" for that, it would be stupid because some characters would be so much better at overcoming that obstacle. SD is no different.

 

[Ace55]

Laps around FD lol. Pretty extreme example don't you think? You're comparing something where the winner is predeterminer with something where one character has an edge.

One stock rematch would be ideal imo. Just giving the win to Ganon/Dedede because 'insert subjective reason here' is what I'm on the fence about.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Are any other stages in the game as deserving? Every stage has some gimmick or another.

I'd personally like a medium-sized stage (around Battlefield's size) with only two platforms like PS2. I think that'd be a better starter than FoD.

I wish splat's Bowser's Castle was like that. And that it was officially released.

GHZ's "gimmick" is only at most as impacting as Smashville and when the platform is high the stage acts similarly to FD, without the effect of permanent stasis.

 

[The_NZA]

Aren't the ceilings and blastzones pretty short?

 

[Ace55]

Just wanted to share this:

And I'm handling the sudden death scenario like this:

In the case of a sudden death without a 'time out' players will play a one stock 2 minute rematch on the stage the tie occurred on. In case the rematch ends in a tie sudden death will be played out.


Otherwise:

Project M 2.5b Full codeset
4 Stock.
8 minute timer.
Items are set to "none" and "off".
All sets best of 5.
4 Stage bans per person.
No player may choose a stage they have won on in the set unless agreed upon by both players.

The winner of RPS strikes 1 stage from the 7 neutrals, then the loser strikes 1 stage, then the winner strikes 1 stage, then the loser strikes 2 stages, then the winner picks the stage to play on from the remaining 2. In other words: A-B-A-B-B-A where A is the winner and B is the loser of RPS.


Anything I'm missing? I was thinking about allowing 1 extra stage ban in teams because of the added 2 stages.

 

[Tero.]

4 Bans pP + DSR? That makes 9 Stages not playable each round.
Imo way too much. That's almost all CP Stages.

Many players haven't really played much on most stages, let people play on them to find out if Stages are too broken and need to be changed/banned

 

[Kink-Link5]

And the CP's that remain are ones that offer a subtle advantage. CP's shouldn't be drastic game changing things, they exist to give a player leverage while discouraging degenerate play.

My stage list uses 13 stages with 2 bans per player followed by 2 soft bans after each match from the winner. The end result is tailor-made stage lists for each set without major outlying stages.

I've used the following when going to my college's LAN party and it tends to go over well

Singles List: BF, FD, MC, YS, WW, PS1, PS2, DL64, FoD, HB, SV, GHZ, DC

Doubles List: BF, FD, SSE:J, KJ64, RF, SL, PS1, PS2, DL, NF, SW, SV, DC

After characters for game 1 are selected, each player/team bans 2 stages in the order of ABBA. These stages stay banned for the entire set. Then, the remaining 9 stages are struck in the order of ABBAABBA. After game 1, the winner selects their character, the loser selects their character, the winner temporarily bans 2 stages, and the loser can CP from the remaining 7. The end result is variety and malleability for the stage list while retaining that each set has as little jank specific to the matchups in question. If you don't want to deal with low ceilings, you can outright ban YS, WW, and PS1, strike away from PS2 and HB, then keep Bowser away from MC and HB with temp-bans.

It takes a bit of getting use to in order to figure out how to strike from 9 stages, but once everyone has the hang of it it goes quite smoothly.

 

[Ace55]

4 Bans pP + DSR? That makes 9 Stages not playable each round.
Imo way too much. That's almost all CP Stages.

Many players haven't really played much on most stages, let people play on them to find out if Stages are too broken and need to be changed/banned

The loser of match one has 15 (!) stages to counterpick from. Even when it get's to 2-2 there are still 13 stages available for the loser to pick from. Imo that's more than enough. DSR promotes some variety during a set.

 

[Arcalyth]

Here's my full ruleset if anyone is interested. http://smashboards.com/threads/lake-effect-i-rootfest-4-february-23rd-2013-grand-rapids-mi.332752/

I personally feel that it's fair while still allowing the early P:M metagame to flourish. The 2.5 Stage Select Screen makes it really easy to strike/ban so time isn't nearly as much of an issue as if you had to reference a stage list. It was originally based on the SCSYN Project: M ruleset so shoutouts to Rat and Vro.

 

[EpixAura]

All characters banned except Captain Falcon. Only Final Destination is allowed. 1 stock only. The players must fight without looking at the screen. Instead, they must have a staring contest. If they blink, the match is forfeited. In the event of a tie, pink Falcon wins by default. If no pink Falcon is present, the players must remove their shirts before a set of judges, who will then decide which of the players is manlier. In the event of a female player, the judges will automatically be declared the winner after the aforementioned contest of manliness.

 

[Dan Salvato]

I hold Project M monthlies and this is our starter stage list:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium 2
Skyloft
Green Hill Zone
WarioWare

My philosophy is this: Some characters have sheer advantage on the three-platform layout, and adding many of them to the starters makes it really easy to strike to one of them. Instead, offer a variety of different stage sizes and layouts and let the players strike the ones they don't like. You'll wind up on a stage you're both comfortable with.

This list covers:
No platforms
One platform
Two platforms
Three platforms
Four platforms
Small size
Medium size
Large size
Vertically-oriented stage
Terrained stage

This gives players a MUCH wider selection on the type of stage, and they can still strike all the layouts they don't like. Everyone at my tournaments has been happy with this so far.

 

[The_NZA]

I like this one!

 

[Kink-Link5]

I hold Project M monthlies and this is our starter stage list:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium 2
Skyloft
Green Hill Zone

To what extent does your CP list reach?

 

[Dan Salvato]

To what extent does your CP list reach?

Everything on Page 1 except SSE: Jungle. Our CP system (which I call the 3-2-1 system) is as follows:

1. Winner of the last match bans 3 stages
2. Loser of the last match CP's 2 stages
3. Winner of the last match selects 1 of those stages

We believe this works very well as a CP system with such a large stage list. In doing so, the CP gives the loser somewhat of a stage advantage but not enough to cause a complete unbalance in the match.

Remember, a stage isn't broken until someone proves it. Hasn't happened so far in my tournaments!

 

[Kink-Link5]

I hope people try their earnest to break stages. If they do it shows something fundamentally flawed about the stage (or character) that could be addressed, and if they can't do it, it shows just as much in the opposite light.

 

[Wrestlemania]

What are the Neutrals and CPs used at Xanadu, or at APEX?

 

[standardtoaster]

bottom row neutrals, top two rows counterpicks except SSE jungle. 3 bans. iirc

 

[The_NZA]

Everything on Page 1 except SSE: Jungle. Our CP system (which I call the 3-2-1 system) is as follows:

1. Winner of the last match bans 3 stages
2. Loser of the last match CP's 2 stages
3. Winner of the last match selects 1 of those stages

We believe this works very well as a CP system with such a large stage list. In doing so, the CP gives the loser somewhat of a stage advantage but not enough to cause a complete unbalance in the match.

Remember, a stage isn't broken until someone proves it. Hasn't happened so far in my tournaments!

Why ban sse then?

 

[Dan Salvato]

Why ban sse then?

We decided that Jungle is the one stage where camping would be way too easy and effective for some of the cast, given its enormous size. We tested all other stages and couldn't come up with much of a cheesy strategy on any other stage.

 

[Arcalyth]

Inspired by InternetExplorer's stagelist, I propose this stagelist (which I'm now using in my rootfest ruleset)

Spoiler

Project: M Stages
Starter
- Battlefield
- Final Destination
- WarioWare
- Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
- Green Hill Zone
- Pokemon Stadium 2
- Smashville

Counterpick
- Dracula's Castle
- Fountain of Dreams
- Yoshi's Story
- Halberd
- Metal Cavern
- Pokemon Stadium 1
- Dreamland
- Rumble Falls
- Skyloft
- Skyworld
- Norfair

Doubles
- Remove WarioWare, Metal Cavern, Fountain of Dreams, and Yoshi's Story from available stages.
- Add Kongo Jungle 64 and SSE: Jungle.
- SSE: Jungle replaces WarioWare as a starter.

Playing a Set
1. Best of one Rock Paper Scissors for port priority if requested.
2. Double Blind character selection if requested.
3. Highest port priority strikes first.
4. Strike order: 1-2-2-1 (Melee) or 1-2-2-1-1-2 (Project: M)
[Play Game]
5. Winner bans 1 (Melee) or 4 (Project: M) stages. Bans apply for only one game.
6. Winner selects character.
7. Loser selects character and stage.
8. Repeat steps 5-8 until set is complete.

Thoughts?