Data Pokemon Battle Strategies: Sm4sh Jigglypuff Matchup Thread (Discussing Ryu)

[Jiggly]

Pokemon Battle Strategies: Sm4sh Jigglypuff Matchup Thread

Character match up scores will start as question marks during discussion. After that character discussion it will change color. Good matchups will be pink, even matchups will be purple, bad matchups will be red. Every piece of input helps. Feel free to ask questions.

Matchup Format Example

| 0:100
Best Strategy in MU|Forfeit

Matchups

| 45:55
Best Strategy in MU|Don't stay too close, make sure you space and constantly retreat. Stay at head level, and never get directly above him. When off stage in the air is when you want to be over him, or else a Fair can dunk you easily. Fair, Up B, and Up smash are your biggest problems in this MU, plus his aerials beat yours. Bait and punish is the game.

| 60:40
Best Strategy in MU| His air speed is slow, so making sure to best him in the air is your best bet, as you can avoid grabs, and get good percent. Cyclone is you biggest problem here, but Nair beats cyclone, so always be prepared. Luigi's lack of traction makes every move safe on shield except forward momentum Fair. retreating fairs and Nairs are your best bet in neutral. If you get a grab, up throw is best as his low air speed gives good follow-ups, unless if near the edge go for the off edge throw, as gimping luigi is quite simple.

| 60:40
Best Strategies in MU|DON'T be above him, head level is best, like always. You should be able to fair juggle him easily due to his heavy weight. Fair, Bair, and Nair are your best friend in this MU. You own the neutral game, he is just going to try to catch you slipping up. His tilts have lots of cool down, as does his aerials, if you retreat your fairs and play a bait-and punish game, your neutral game will be great. His Up-smash and Up air are big problems in this MU. Also, your strings have to be on point, as bowser isn't too hard to gimp, but you can't do too much to whirling fortress once it starts up, so don't let bowser get that chance too early.

| 40:60
Best Strategies in MU|Be careful for his aerials, don't be aggressive. Diddy will be the aggressive on in this matchup, your best bet is to punish his aerials, and to get him off stage. Always be at a 45 degree angle from diddy offstage, to avoid monkey flip, to be able to fair him if needed, and to be in a perfect place to Nair his recovery. Gimping diddy is simple, but he won't agree to offstage play. Also, take advantage of his bananas. Puff is never threatened by them, so diddy will often times not bother to chase them if he pulls one out. Since bait and punish is the game, if you can find a way to get him to whiff a grab, do a Glide toss (jump canceled throw) banana throw, then SH rest him. It's a great kill setup, and it catches lots of diddys off guard.

| 45:55
Best Strategies in MU|Since Bouncing fish off the stage can hit you as you recover, often times stages that you can shark under are good counter picks, as that restricts a lot of shiek's options. The only problem with this, is that you can't stage spike the vanish ledge appearance. So if you depend on that for a lot of kills, then don't go for a stage like Delfino. Needles shouldn't be a big problem, unless you see sheik approaching form a 45 degree angle, don't worry. Sheik will never approach at that angle, unless looking for a needle hit, so that should be an easy thing to read. Uair is tough, as it reaches out far and kills well, so be careful to not lets sheik approach from under you. Fair strings are easy to avoid, just DI with the hit, and when they go for the next Fair, bet them with yours, or if offstage, go towards sheik while airdodging to get a nice Bair.

| 45:55
Best Strategy in MU| Pressure luma with nairs and fairs, and try to push rosa away from luma. Luma gets smacked straight in the air by a pound, so you can use that an dfollow up with a bair for a luma kill. Utilt also throws luma up, and you can also follow that with a bair or nair. Often times lumas will be camped on the ledge, you can use your extra jumps to get past it, or just pound luma for EZ$. If you get caught in a throw or jab, try to jump out of the combo instead of airdodge, or you could get caught in a nasty usmash or uair, and die. Avoid being above her, as Uair is a big issue. Make sure to space appropriately with your sh aerials, or usmash will be very mean. rosa juggles at low percent are great. Also, rosa dies to utilt at 120% if you need a quick kill option as well, and can catch people off guard.

| 55:45
Best Strategy in MU| You can be aggressive in neutral, and not be afraid to be close. When you are close you can duck a lot of her options, and our priority beats her out. When you land, your landing frames are a duck. you can hold down to not enter a standing position. On flat ground you can dodge her Jab, Dash Attack, F-Tilt (not down-angled), U-Tilt, F-Smash, Standing Grab (must grab at the last 1/3rd of the whip), Dash Grab (will whiff up-close), Neutral-B. You can then sh rest or just rest after ducking these moves. Gimping her can be kind of tough, it's normally a 50-50. You can either nair her flip kick or nair her as she uses her whip. Her aerial mobility and range is good, we need to use our priority and space well to beat her. If she is in the air we need to punish her landings or out prioritize her. Dont be above her. or she can chain uair to up b and kill at low percents, or kill at higher percents with raw uair.

| 45:55
Best Strategy in MU| Nair and Jab beat Spindash, so these will be very important tools in the MU. This MU is seen as very unpleasant as it makes it so both parties need to play footsies or run away. It is a very footsies-based match. The reason that sonic has the advantage is he can camp puff better than puff can camp sonic. If sonic gets the lead, he can choose to spend the rest of the match running. Spend this MU being safe yet aggressive. Avoid flat stages.

| 40:60
Best Strategy in MU| Pika is short and quick, making him hard to rest. He often falls out of dair, and does really well at spacing puff out. Dash Attack and Nair are very good in this mu. Dash Attack trumps all of Pika's moves, and Nair is a long lasting hitbox that beats Quick Attack. Pika's utilt is a very good anti air, so that is something that you cant let them abuse. Conditioning to Dash Attack approach in the beginning can make pika become shield happy due to DA destroying their options. Use this to your advantage to dair lock them into shield, or get great pound oppurtunities. Avoid stages with many platforms like lylat, dreamland, and battlefield.

| 40:60
Best Strategy in MU| Ness is power. Ness' aerials do well at spacing puff out, and that's a problem. Ness' backthrow can also do well against puff. That said, ness' pk fire is horrible against puff. If ness tries to abuse PK fire, sh nair is your friend. You need to weave in an out a lot in this MU, and use dair a lot as he doesn't have very good ways to deal with FH dair approach. Gimping ness is simple with ffdair for the semi spike, or you can jump into the pkt bolt and eat it up, or you can even run into ness and get the stage tech. If ness ever Dthrows you, DI in so you cant get fair'd. You can get hit by one uair sometimes, but once you hit around 35%, you can't get hit by anything out of Ness' dthrow.

| 55:45
Best Strategy in MU| You can destroy fox's approach with dair. Utilt strings aren't an issue due to light weight. Fox's ffnair and ffdair are a problem. Always DI down and get the tech so you can't get hit by the Usmash combo. Dthrow to fair isn't a thing on puff if you DI away. Puff can crouch and space with dtilt to keep fox out as well. Dtilt beats his ground approaches, shield beats his aerials approach.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I got you on the sticky.

This matchup seems pretty bad for Jigglypuff, in my experience. Mario has comparable aerial mobility with faster, bigger hitboxes all around. Very little endlag to punish reliably, and he can often get away with "just throwing out" certain hitboxes, like U-Smash, which will often beat or trade our textbook spacing tools. He's fast enough to move away from you via a run or roll without repercussion, which is always infuriating.

Edgeguarding Mario is a tricky ordeal since he moves around well and your ideal angle, horizontal-ish, risks getting dunked by F-Air or safely swatted by U-Air. Up-B also seems to beat pretty much anything Jigglypuff puts out there.

I'd say -at best- 40-60 in Mario's favor. This is not a fun matchup in the slightest.

 

[Salad Bowl]

I agree but its not that bad. She can approach with nair since it cancels out the fire balls and outprioritizes his nair. His moves have low or no endlag. His mobility is fast and he has many lingering hitboxes and the ability to kill jiggs early. He isnt too heavy himself which is good.

I think a good CounterPick stage would be Delfino Plaza, the base platform lets jiggs shark beneath the stage. The water is also good for rest since it cancels out jiggs sleeping.

I also agree that its 40-60

@ TheReflexWonder How come its not stickied?

 

[IsmaR]

Pretty much all of what Reflex said is on the mark. The biggest thing he didn't mention was that Mario's D-air is a force to be reckoned with. Kills at crazy low % on light characters, not to mention the moves' speed or priority. Getting caught out of lingering aerials = ****.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I forgot to sticky it. It's stickied now.

Cape also does damage to us without waking us up, so he gets a great Rest punish in Cape -> Cape -> Cape -> F-Smash, or if he has FLUDD charged, he can use that to put us in a realistic gimping position.

It's not like you'll have many opportunities to use Down-B anyway, but it's not really the matchup to YOLO it, even at low percents.

 

[Salad Bowl]

Mario doesn't have the best recovery so at percents around 80% a bair knocks him offstage far enough for him to not recover.

@ TheReflexWonder @ IsmaR What stage do you guys think is a good CP stage for Jiggs and one she should ban right away

 

[LightningLuxray]

Do you guys really find Mario that hard to edgeguard? find once I get him off-stage he's pretty easy to gimp. Fair is kinda irrelevant considering its massive amount of lag, so all you have to worry about is Bair and I guess UAir.

Overall though, this MU is p bad. USmash is so annoying >.<

 

[drakeirving]

Upsmash is sort of interesting because it's like ours in that it hits from the back first and then the front. Because of its crazy disjoint, this means that if you try to attack into it from the back you will likely get smashed, while if you attack from the front you might poke it first. Additionally, a perfectly-spaced bair will get him during it because of having no limb hurtboxes.

it's still stupid and will kill me forever though

 

[Salad Bowl]

Do you guys have something to say about CP and ban stages?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

For all it's worth, Mario's U-Smash has head invincibility during its active frames.

I don't know anything about stages in this game.

 

[ZHMT]

For stages, Kongo Jungle is easily the best stage for us (almost always is), followed by Castle Siege, Battlefield, and maybe Lylat. High ceilings from Kongo and CS transformation 2 are great, battlefields ceiling is higher than average and Lylat messes with Mario more than us. Kongo will likely get banned though vs Puff player.

I don't like Halberd (the most), FD, and Town and City. Halberds ceiling is very low, FD is definitely better for Mario and Town is a personal choice vs Mario I don't like.

Also, I don't know about the matchup being 6-4 Mario. His up smash is good, but that alone isn't going to swing a matchup. From the Marios I've faced I didn't have too much of a problem. I'm more leaning towards 5-5, its not like up smash invalidates our approaching options like Snakes utilt did in SSBB. You just need to be careful and not challenge him from above, only the sides, mostly in front. His fair is slow and from the front he can't beat much of anything we got in the air unless he throws out an Up B. We can gimp him from throws offstage and he can't really kill us unless we mess up. I apoligize if my ideas on the matchup are off but this is honestly how its been playing out for all the Puffs in Florida to my knowledge.

 

[Salad Bowl]

For stages, Kongo Jungle is easily the best stage for us (almost always is), followed by Castle Siege, Battlefield, and maybe Lylat. High ceilings from Kongo and CS transformation 2 are great, battlefields ceiling is higher than average and Lylat messes with Mario more than us. Kongo will likely get banned though vs Puff player.

I don't like Halberd (the most), FD, and Town and City. Halberds ceiling is very low, FD is definitely better for Mario and Town is a personal choice vs Mario I don't like.

Also, I don't know about the matchup being 6-4 Mario. His up smash is good, but that alone isn't going to swing a matchup. From the Marios I've faced I didn't have too much of a problem. I'm more leaning towards 5-5, its not like up smash invalidates our approaching options like Snakes utilt did in SSBB. You just need to be careful and not challenge him from above, only the sides, mostly in front. His fair is slow and from the front he can't beat much of anything we got in the air unless he throws out an Up B. We can gimp him from throws offstage and he can't really kill us unless we mess up. I apoligize if my ideas on the matchup are off but this is honestly how its been playing out for all the Puffs in Florida to my knowledge.

This doesn't have to do with the MU but do you know if HBox still plays Jiggs? I assumed that you know since you both are in florida

 

[ZHMT]

To the best of my knowledge yes he still does. We also have someone who plays Sheik and Puff who is good south of here.

Also I don't think invincibility on Marios usmash is that relevant since you don't wanna be trading with it anyways and on the ground you'll outspeed it or be able to grab him. In the air you just retreat back and in after the hitbox expires and punish the half second or so of lag.

 

[Salad Bowl]

To the best of my knowledge yes he still does. We also have someone who plays Sheik and Puff who is good south of here.

Also I don't think invincibility on Marios usmash is that relevant since you don't wanna be trading with it anyways and on the ground you'll outspeed it or be able to grab him. In the air you just retreat back and in after the hitbox expires and punish the half second or so of lag.

I think delfino is one of Jiggs best stages too. The water mechanic ends rests sleeping animation and the stage base gives Jiggs the ability to shark. The stage base also doesn't benefit marios recovery. He has to sweetspot the ledge or he has to go through the stage with his ENTIRE body. One inch off recovering can kill him. I think the good counterpick stages are delfino plaza or Kongo jungle. I agree with your stage bans except town in city.

 

[ZHMT]

Delfino is iffy because the ceiling is low and the platforms are at odd places at times and doesn't benefit Puff much, it almost becomes a smaller FD that you can shark on.

The pillar transformation and the water there as well as on the sand cancelling the sleeping of rest is gimmicky and I don't think it warrants the stage being a counterpick but that's just me.

Sharking is good on Delfino but a lot of the transformations are really tiny and its blehhh.

Town and City is better for Puff than Smashville vs Mario iimo but still not a great stage for her. You're better off on Battlefield if you have the choice when striking.

Battlefield > Smashville > FD for neutrals imo

Town and City gives Mario too much room. The stage being smaller is good, but the blast zones being smaller is bad aka Delfino/Halberd

 

[Salad Bowl]

Delfino is iffy because the ceiling is low and the platforms are at odd places at times and doesn't benefit Puff much, it almost becomes a smaller FD that you can shark on.

The pillar transformation and the water there as well as on the sand cancelling the sleeping of rest is gimmicky and I don't think it warrants the stage being a counterpick but that's just me.

Sharking is good on Delfino but a lot of the transformations are really tiny and its blehhh.

Town and City is better for Puff than Smashville vs Mario iimo but still not a great stage for her. You're better off on Battlefield if you have the choice when striking.

Battlefield > Smashville > FD for neutrals imo

Town and City gives Mario too much room. The stage being smaller is good, but the blast zones being smaller is bad aka Delfino/Halberd

The water mechanic really benefits rest. The low ceiling kinda benefits puff since rest will kill at 30% and a dthrow to uair string could do it. I think this is definitely her best stage in general.

For counterpick stages I see Delfino Plaza and Kongo Jungle, the one that isnt banned

 

[ZHMT]

Dthrow to uair doesn't combo and uair only really combos into rest in the air during tight windows and if its a very meaty up air. You don't want to pick stahes that buff rest and hurt Puff getting hit by any vertical move, its a bad tradeoff. Its best to pick a stage that helps her survivability which also gives her better knockback if she survives, helping her whole moveset.

 

[Salad Bowl]

Dthrow to uair doesn't combo and uair only really combos into rest in the air during tight windows and if its a very meaty up air. You don't want to pick stahes that buff rest and hurt Puff getting hit by any vertical move, its a bad tradeoff. Its best to pick a stage that helps her survivability which also gives her better knockback if she survives, helping her whole moveset.

Yes but the low ceiling on some transformation can make rest kill even early which is good. In brawl it was her best stage and still think it is. Her Uthrow is her strongest throw and it could possibly kill at 120% on those transformations (I'll test in the lab). Yes but its only one ceiling which is good so overall i believe its a good stage. Also i know it doesnt combo but dthrow puts them in a position where they can be uair stringed

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Mario B-Air does a fine job keeping Jigglypuff out, and things like U-Air and D-Air still discourage us from coming in at non-horizontal angles.

 

[LightningLuxray]

While Mario does have Bair and Uair, Jiggs also has a strong Fair, Nair, and Bair to space Mario with. It's kind of equal in that regard, though Mario does still have USmash / UpB to stop our approach.

Maybe like a 55 / 45?

 

[Salad Bowl]

Jigglypuff also out ranges him with fair and bair. Jigglypuff also has more priority. I'm starting to think it's 50:50.

Also I added tables in the OP. Any thoughts?

 

[ZHMT]

Up B out of shield is annoying, you kinda just have to bait it, generally if he's shielding he's waiting for a hit confirm on his shield to up B though. Its either bait it, space away from it when hitting his shield, or try to sneak a grab in.

If Puff is advantagous in the air, and Mario is on the ground, Mario has stronger KO options and we are better offstage it seems about equal footing overall. I mean, Marios range isn't great, on the ground his tilts similar to ours in range.

The matchup is definitely harder for Puff because mistakes potentially hurt her more, but played optimally its close.

In my experience, I did think the matchup was a bit poor until I played it a lot and figured out more options to combat Mario. He is quick and agile, but we generally outrange him in the air and have better mobility so its all about split second adjustments in spacing. If he is walling with bairs or up air, we can trade with nair sometimes and it outdamages or sends him into a worse position than us. Also he does have back throw which can kill with rage so there's that to note.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What do you do if he decides he doesn't actually want to fight and he just moves away from you?

 

[Salad Bowl]

Up B out of shield is annoying, you kinda just have to bait it, generally if he's shielding he's waiting for a hit confirm on his shield to up B though. Its either bait it, space away from it when hitting his shield, or try to sneak a grab in.

If Puff is advantagous in the air, and Mario is on the ground, Mario has stronger KO options and we are better offstage it seems about equal footing overall. I mean, Marios range isn't great, on the ground his tilts similar to ours in range.

The matchup is definitely harder for Puff because mistakes potentially hurt her more, but played optimally its close.

In my experience, I did think the matchup was a bit poor until I played it a lot and figured out more options to combat Mario. He is quick and agile, but we generally outrange him in the air and have better mobility so its all about split second adjustments in spacing. If he is walling with bairs or up air, we can trade with nair sometimes and it outdamages or sends him into a worse position than us. Also he does have back throw which can kill with rage so there's that to note.

Jiggs bair also kills him really well. I feel that jiggs rest makes mario not wanna get to close which is good considering that puff has better range. I think its dead even. It seems that there are as many cons as many pros.

What do you do if he decides he doesn't actually want to fight and he just moves away from you?

i chase with nair which lingers long and has super high priority. They get a nair to the face.

 

[ZHMT]

What do you do if he decides he doesn't actually want to fight and he just moves away from you?

Generally you just slowly creep up until he runs out of space. Eventually he's not going to be able to move away anymore because he runs out of stage behind him. If he's on the ground you just gotta be really patient and careful not to commit too much if you decide you want to attack in some way.

Once you get a lead you can camp out Mario fairly well because you can force him to fight you in the air. His fireballs aren't safe at close range and past that you can easily evade them.

Its a fairly boring matchup if the Mario decides to play optimally and move away defensively. However Puff does have the proper tools to combat it. When Mario runs out of space, he may roll behind you or jump/throw out an attack. One victory in this situation puts him offstage and can give you a huge lead if you gimp him or ledge trap him.

 

[Salad Bowl]

@ TheReflexWonder @ IsmaR @ drakeirving @ LightningLuxray @ ZHMT I think we have what we need. What do you guys this the score is? 50:50 or 40:60. I think it's 50:50 imo

 

[Desu~]

I believe the advantage is clearly on Mario.

I find it important to know that the great majority of Mario's attacks has fairly little start ups compared to Jiggs.
It's totally a pain to deal with his spacing until you really get him up in a corner and, eventually, getting him offstage.

Quite frankly I think that we don't really seem to take Mario's vertical coverage seriously. Uair is an annoyance and Usmash limits aerial approach options.

Because Im not good at this game and because don't know much about pro mario players, Im giving this MU a 55:45 in Mario's favor based on the behavior of some Marios I faced. But I would be leaning towards 60:40 in Mario's favor if a strong defensive gameplay would happen to develop eventually that would prove to be disadvantageous for Jiggs.

Just wanted to point out my opinion.

 

[LightningLuxray]

I'm not really sure if 55:45 rankings are allowed, but if they are, it seems to describe the MU perfectly. If they aren't, then 60:40 is probably for the best due to the reasons previously stated in the thread.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Crouching is really really good against Mario. Gets you under basically all his SH aerials including D-air and B-air. Jiggs should focus on grabs and conservative F-air spacing in this matchup, and edgeguarding when applicable.

Other than that, I don't really have anything new to add to this discussion. Mario's U-smash and B-throw have to be respected by Jiggs sure, but I don't honestly see it as a major problem for her to deal with in neutral. Focus on fighting Mario after you force him to face forwards where he's extremely weak, and don't go for anything too fancy before then.

 

[Salad Bowl]

I updated the OP score as 45:55 favoring mario since thats pretty close to what everyone said.

Now discussing Luigi so please input what you think.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Luigi main here:

I haven't had much Jigglpuff MU experience but I'll throw in some stuff I think. A lot of the things said about Mario can be said for Luigi. His aerial speed isn't as fast but his quick aerials can be trouble for Jiggs. Luigi's damage output is greater than Mario's so you'll find yourself up in kill percent quickly if you're not careful. Luigi can throw two Bairs, Uairs, and Dairs in one short hop. The fact that Jigglypuff likes to stay in the air will make Luigi toss out many aerials to keep Jiggs walled out.

Luigi's has a great combo game but that pretty much boils down to him getting a grab. This will be tough for him because Jigglypuff remains airborne. Even if he does grab you he can't combo you as well as other characters. Still don't get grabbed at higher percents because Dthrow->Nair is pretty guaranteed and kills.

As far as specials go, Fireball will be more troublesome in this match up because they're not effected by gravity. Luigi can fireball your aerial approach as well as a grounded approach. Be sure to Fair the Fireballs if you don't avoid them. Luigi will try to set up a Fireball->Usmash approach at mid range. Cyclone will be trouble too. It has incredible priority and lasts for a while. Luigi can rise with it. An aerial Jigglypuff will have trouble avoiding this at mid-range. And it will kill Jiggs probably around 110%.

Jigglypuff can't gimp Luigi very easily unless due to rising Cyclone and Luigi's aerials. The key is to go deep when edgeguarding Luigi. Luigi will try to wall out your recovery with Fairs and Dairs as you recover but patience and diligence should allow you to return to the stage.

 

[Desu~]

Also, considering Luigi to be higher than Mario, I would like to know if it's actually possible to crouch to avoid Luigi's grab and his cyclone.
Cuz if that's the case, it would mean that Luigi shouldn't throw in cyclones to his heart's content.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I don't think you would be able to crouch under Cyclone because the hitbox hits surprisingly low. The throw maybe can be crouched under

 

[ZHMT]

6-4 Puffs Favor. The only reason its not worse is because Luigi can kill with throws eventually and has strong attacks but even then they don't outweigh his disadvantages in this mu by any means. Puffs aerials are generally safe on shield vs Luigi. If Luigi tries to dthrow to nair Puff can hold up and away and avoid the percents where nair will kill and at this percent up throw doesn't kill her either so there's not even a mixup.

I don't know exactly how Luigis recovery works but I gimp the Luigis I play left and right. I heard to use cyclone he has to use a jump or have one perhaps? Something related to that. A grab and throw offstage is often fatal for Luigi.

We outrange him in the air similar to how we do Mario, however Mario has up B out of shield defensively where Luigi does not. Marios anti air attacks like usmash are far better as well. Jiggs can crouch under his fireballs and Luigis jab isn't safe on hit against Puff at low/mid percents or so. You can counter hit it with nair if he does the full combo and you hold away a bit.

I'm actually inclined to say we may actually be even on the ground, as odd as it sounds. Also Luigis combos are fairly restricted vs. Puff that DIs properly.

For stages, Kongo is best (almost always is, as I said before), Battlefield is good, Delfino is good here (better vs Luigi than against Mario).

I would ban Halberd and/or FD Omega, Halberd is just overall really bad for Puff imo, she just dies way too early on it.

 

[ZHMT]

Also, because of how he Apex ruleset is listed and its very possible its the default standard ruleset I suggest we list 3 counterpicks in each matchup. Against Mario the third stage should definitely be Castle Siege. We can have 2 bans listed because we are given that but having only 2 counterpicks for us listed means we can be "banned out" of them.

This means the third stage may not be as potent as it should be but we can definitely list our third best stage in each matchup anyway. This is because Apex rules have 2 bans iirc.

For the second ban we suggest along with Halberd I would put FD/Omega.

 

[BlueBirdE]

This match up is 6-4 in luigis favor imo. Fireballs rly help luigi despite being able to get cancelled out by jiggz aerials. Joggz can get zoned out then it becomes a mix up game when shes close whether luigi can throw an upsmash in case of jump from jiggz or quick cyclone to catch hem of guard. Despite what is said luigi can still conbo jiggz pretty well you just have to adjust your setup. Dthrow nair is good kill for luigi but dthrow cyclone is inescabable an it kils around 110% and even soon with rage luigi. Luigi can still mix uo his recoveey off stage going high or low and if jiggz is below the stage shes vulnerable to luigis cyclone gimp qhich causees them to fall straight down and eventually lose all her jumps

 

[Desu~]

Just a question here.

Just which category is Omega Kalos league in the stage list?
Because I've found it to have a rather high ceiling. Not sure if it's higher than anything, but close to something like kongo status.

However, is the fact that this stage does not have the potential to be used for gimping below the stage could be something that would not be beneficial for Jigglypuff in general?

 

[LordTakeo]

The antigravity Fireballs are a pain to deal with, and the Luigi Tornado is an incredible approaching tool, but with an high ending lag, which sucks when his tornado doesn't connect.

His Fire-Punch-Jump is the equivalent to puff's rest, but with a faster recovery from it, and he can somewhat moves it in an direction.

As long as Puff stays in the air, Luigi ain't gonna be able to grab you, but his up smash can hit you hard. Anyway, Puff "should" outrange Weegee, but weegee's fair is somewhat tricky, and can be used in fast succesions.

From the games against my friends Main, I can say that Puffs "slap" is just unfunny to play against. Also, gimping hurts, when the weegee can't dodge at the right moment, or doesn't have his spare jump for his tornado left, he is pretty much doomed, but still: Don't get too close in front of him(currently I'm talking about the airgame), his up B still kills, his sweetspot range was increased in the last patch.

Also, remember. Weegee has a chaingrab. http://smashboards.com/threads/ssbwu-3ds-luigi-chain-grab.379906/
Not so relevant on puff, but... still. It can hurt.

I'd say the rest was already talked about, and I'm too inexperienced to talk about stages.
In My opinion it's 50:50, maybe even 55:45 in Puffs favor, since against a good puff, it will be hard to smash it out of the stage.

 

[ZHMT]

Luigis UP B is a lot weaker than Puffs Rest, and it really shouldn't be hitting anyway.

Someone should check when Rest KOs Mario on Omega Kalos, I can't right now.

 

[LordTakeo]

Luigis UP B is a lot weaker than Puffs Rest, and it really shouldn't be hitting anyway.

Someone should check when Rest KOs Mario on Omega Kalos, I can't right now.

I only talk about the matchup weegee vs puff. Puff IS still the lightest character I know.