Pikachu Social Thread

[Choice Scarf]

Tighter spacing and more grounded neutral can help. Ivy's attacks seem pretty whiff-punishable so if you're closer your Fairs and Nairs should land. And you shouldn't be so inclined to midair jump when sent upward - save it for when you see his attacks coming instead of burning them immediately.

React to whenever he begins his Fair approach - he often catches you when you're just DDing around, so maybe watch him a little closer?

His Nair doesn't a lot of range, but Ivy does have quite a lot of aerial mobility that extends how far he can hit you. I wonder if U-smash OoS works here. Otherwise maybe wavedash back F-smash?

The Nairs were also used when he was edgeguarding you, and honestly those should not have hit if you sweetspotted the ledge. Gotta get those sweetspots man.

Other than that, mix up your approaches. Maybe sometimes drift backwards instead of forwards when you aerial jolt in. And your aerials are more effective when you land behind the opponent instead of landing where they are, but mixing that up should be what you actually do.

 

[Scatz]

Nair actually beats almost all of Pika's options due to her hitboxes being outside of her physical representation (tried other options and Usmash OoS). Not only that, but the lag is short enough to where grab is my best option.

When I was trying to dissect this matchup (before playing that set), the gameplan I could think of best was to DD just outside Ivy's RAR Bair reach so that most options (Fair, Grabs, and Dtilts) aren't as threatening and are reactable. Only problem was that I wasn't able to execute this plan since Reflex charged right at me before I could get accustomed to the game plan.

I'm sure you know that once your plans are broken, people either adapt or have their gameplay degenerate in an attempt to pull things back together. The latter happened to me because most of his pressure forced me to focus on SDIing to avoid bigger hits instead of getting another gameplan. Doesn't also help that my Pika wasn't executing very well.

I need more information about Pika vs Ivy, as that matchup, I don't have good answers to when a player shuts down my original gameplan. Pika's options to Nair? Optimal stages to execute proper spacing? etc. There's not a lot of talk about matchups on here, and that makes things harder to figure out on your own...

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

What was his strategy like when he played you?

I aint no pm wizard but ill give you my advice based on what i saw


For one, it looked like every time he landed a nair it was stock, so pretty much avoid it at all costs. He hit you with it out of shield, out of combos, and with ledge invincibility so I think you should respect it in those situations.

Also I noticed that he had amazing corner pressure, almost every time you were in the corner he killed you, so avoid the corners or find a way out of them.


I think you should be going for grabs at low percents, cus Ivysaur gets punished ridiculously hard off of a pikachu dthrow.

I've never played an ivysaur as good as reflex so im kinda lost too

real talk ivys nair is cheap

 

[Choice Scarf]

@ Scatz I feel ya dude. Doesn't help that there are so little of us. Hopefully we can inject some more life into these boards.

If you want to focus on Ivy's Nair, then sure let's start there. I still think it doesn't look like it has as much range as you say it does:

Most of the Nairs Reflex uses are defensive or reactive to your movements. He catches you a lot in the air with it and starts combos from there. I guess by that point you can only hope to DI out, but since it's a multi hit move you should be able to also SDI.

Pika can handle attempted offensive Nair. Shielding the Nair seems to be the best option in this case. There are moments where you have good responses OoS (see 1:22, 2:08) and some missed opportunities (1:55, 2:23), but the point is if you follow up correctly you should be able to punish. Pika looks like he has enough speed to DD around it if you look at what you did at 6:00.

So I don't know, Nair's low landing lag is a problem so outspacing its range or shielding should be what Pika's response is. You can also try zoning D-tilts, F-tilts, and backwards facing Bairs and Uairs. Heck see if Uair can hit it from below, or U-smash it directly since it's damage is somewhat low from being spread out as a multi hit move.

If anything I'm more concerned with how Ivy's double jab can knock you out of shield. THAT seems like more BS to me than the Nair.

 

[Scatz]

I aint no pm wizard but ill give you my advice based on what i saw


For one, it looked like every time he landed a nair it was stock, so pretty much avoid it at all costs. He hit you with it out of shield, out of combos, and with ledge invincibility so I think you should respect it in those situations.

Also I noticed that he had amazing corner pressure, almost every time you were in the corner he killed you, so avoid the corners or find a way out of them.


I think you should be going for grabs at low percents, cus Ivysaur gets punished ridiculously hard off of a pikachu dthrow.

I've never played an ivysaur as good as reflex so im kinda lost too

real talk ivys nair is cheap

S'all good. That's why I'm bringing it here so I can get some other minds on it to figure out an answer. I do think at this point, challenging Nair might be something I'm going to avoid unless I can get in better positions.

@ Scatz I feel ya dude. Doesn't help that there are so little of us. Hopefully we can inject some more life into these boards.

If you want to focus on Ivy's Nair, then sure let's start there. I still think it doesn't look like it has as much range as you say it does:

Most of the Nairs Reflex uses are defensive or reactive to your movements. He catches you a lot in the air with it and starts combos from there. I guess by that point you can only hope to DI out, but since it's a multi hit move you should be able to also SDI.

Pika can handle attempted offensive Nair. Shielding the Nair seems to be the best option in this case. There are moments where you have good responses OoS (see 1:22, 2:08) and some missed opportunities (1:55, 2:23), but the point is if you follow up correctly you should be able to punish. Pika looks like he has enough speed to DD around it if you look at what you did at 6:00.

So I don't know, Nair's low landing lag is a problem so outspacing its range or shielding should be what Pika's response is. You can also try zoning D-tilts, F-tilts, and backwards facing Bairs and Uairs. Heck see if Uair can hit it from below, or U-smash it directly since it's damage is somewhat low from being spread out as a multi hit move.

If anything I'm more concerned with how Ivy's double jab can knock you out of shield. THAT seems like more BS to me than the Nair.

I can at least bring content to the boards since I bring my recording setup around more often now. I think there's a total of 5-6 of us (like 2-3 on Anther's ladder including him), so it's just getting them to post and talk.

I'll put some hardcore testing into options vs Ivy's Nair in the past week, but for now, I think it's more reasonable to avoid punishing it directly because of how well it can link into Ivy's combos and how difficult it is to SDI out of it (sucks you inwards). Adding in the landing hitbox makes it harder to punish. Though, I think it's definitely a punishable option if Ivy's lands with her back towards Pika (frame 9 Ivy Nair vs frame 6 Pika Uair / Nair).

Can you link what time where the double jab happened?

I've thought about playing on a bigger map to allow Pika to run around and dodge more Ivy more effectively, but I haven't gotten a chance to try it out on a player closer to my skill level yet.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

@ Scatz I might be a bit late but oh well. Also allot of what I'm going say is my opinion and is what has brought me slight success with pikachu.

anyways he was winning the neutral pretty hard, also he capitalized off of opportunities really well.

To help with the neutral I really like t-jolt (in any MU really) if it hits them you can get a free grab/nair/fair/up-smash. If they shield, follow the t-jolt and run up and grab, or pressure with nair/fair (this is really safe shield pressure in my opinion) if they try to jump to avoid pressure then meet them in the air with an up-air/nair (I believe up would out space ivys dair or nair, but I'm not sure)

Then if you want to mix it up then you can just go in with a cross up nair/fair to try and get something started. Just watch out for ivys bair oos

As for combos I think pikachu can easily 0-death ivys weight class. Keep him in the air as much as possible and try to knock him off-stage. And as for edgeguards, if ivy is forced to us up then drop of ledge (not fast fall or you will die) and nair

One more thing, don't be afraid to play peach for a second and crouch cancel down smash if ivy tries to rush in with a fair or nair. it's actually pretty hard to SDI out and can follow up to up-air/nair depending on percent.

Hope this helps a little. Also give me any feedback of things you disagree with/things that aren't safe, always looking for ways to improve

 

[Choice Scarf]

Can you link what time where the double jab happened?

1:03, 4:02, 6:48. Either you are letting shield go too quickly or Ivy's Jab 1 has enough power to get Jab 2 to shield poke. Jab 2 is low hitting but it's still weird that Ivy has such an easy setup from that.

Interestingly I also saw you shielding both hits at 6:33, but I can't tell if that's just Ivy's D-tilt (both looking the same and all).

 

[Scatz]

@ Scatz I might be a bit late but oh well. Also allot of what I'm going say is my opinion and is what has brought me slight success with pikachu.

anyways he was winning the neutral pretty hard, also he capitalized off of opportunities really well.

To help with the neutral I really like t-jolt (in any MU really) if it hits them you can get a free grab/nair/fair/up-smash. If they shield, follow the t-jolt and run up and grab, or pressure with nair/fair (this is really safe shield pressure in my opinion) if they try to jump to avoid pressure then meet them in the air with an up-air/nair (I believe up would out space ivys dair or nair, but I'm not sure)

Then if you want to mix it up then you can just go in with a cross up nair/fair to try and get something started. Just watch out for ivys bair oos

As for combos I think pikachu can easily 0-death ivys weight class. Keep him in the air as much as possible and try to knock him off-stage. And as for edgeguards, if ivy is forced to us up then drop of ledge (not fast fall or you will die) and nair

One more thing, don't be afraid to play peach for a second and crouch cancel down smash if ivy tries to rush in with a fair or nair. it's actually pretty hard to SDI out and can follow up to up-air/nair depending on percent.

Hope this helps a little. Also give me any feedback of things you disagree with/things that aren't safe, always looking for ways to improve

I can't just throw Tjolt as much because the space it covers leaves a blind spot where opponents can rush in to punish Pika. If it acted as fast as Sheik's needles, that would be a different story. I do use it every now and then, and they gave me some breathing room because I was at the right spacing to prevent getting punished, but I also still have to get a read in neutral to get solid damage in.

Your information doesn't really apply when a player like Reflex's caliber is able to react to said options and punish hard for them. Ivy does have answers to stuff out Pika's approaches, and Pika has to take some time before rushing in to get hardcore damage. Most of what you're saying is basic things that isn't getting into the specifics. Also, Ivy can avoid the ledge drop Nair if she tethers from far and pulls up early. Her vulnerability is dependent on where she attempts to tether.

Not going to play Peach when I don't like the character. Not only that, but that's a dumb way to go when I like playing Pika.

1:03, 4:02, 6:48. Either you are letting shield go too quickly or Ivy's Jab 1 has enough power to get Jab 2 to shield poke. Jab 2 is low hitting but it's still weird that Ivy has such an easy setup from that.

Interestingly I also saw you shielding both hits at 6:33, but I can't tell if that's just Ivy's D-tilt (both looking the same and all).

1:03, 6:33, and 6:48 are all D-tilts. 4:02 is the jab. I don't remember what I was trying to do at 1:03, but 6:33 just caught me out of my dash I believe and 4:02 I jumped after the first jab landed on my shield.

D-tilt in general is very powerful because it acts like a suction to a specific spot for Ivy to net combos. It's only of the reasons why I want to avoid that move because it's a very threatening move in neutral imo. Jab at least knock you away...


I feel that this is very similar to the Marth MU since Ivy's SH is floaty and her aerials (namely Fair and Bair) and tilts (the exception of D-tilt's angle) are similar to Marth's. Respecting Ivy's range is probably key until you can get a whiff punish. Although, I think Fair's hitbox coverage is annoying enough to where I'd rather want to punish it later than earlier since it can cover a lot of range in just 1 frame (first frame above Ivy to 2nd frame in front of Ivy).

I know there was a match Anther had vs an Ivy, but I don't remember who it was on.

 

[Choice Scarf]

My googlefu found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aRIPQ1OVsA

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

any significant 3.6 changes that i should know about

 

[Choice Scarf]

If you mean from 3.6 beta, spotdodge got nerfed by two frames as a roster sweeping normalization.

If you mean from 3.5, dash attack, down tilt, and grounded jolt got damage buffs and QA has melee's shorter landing lag.

 

[DblCrest]

I haven't quite adjusted to playing Pika in Pm in fact I think just him ,Lucas and Yoshi I couldn't quite adapt to using mid match like the other characters when I first started.

But really how is he?