Phantom Scrolls: SSB4 Zelda Matchup Thread [Discussing Sheik]

[Katty Shepherd]

Little Mac huh? Well, let's see...

Zelda being more of a grounded character, she doesn't have very good odds going toe to toe against Little Mac. He's faster than her in every way, and he's got super armor all over the place. You definitely can't afford to throw out any "useless" movements here, as he'll most likely punish you very promptly for doing so.

There is still hope though! You have to abuse of the fact that he has an absolutely horrible, horrible recovery. So early gimping will be your best friend. One sweetspotted Dair offstage is pretty much the end of Little Mac at any % really:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWrbBw--YnA <= As evidenced here.

And why wouldn't you pursue him off stage? There is very little risk involved as his aerials are all abysmal, and really the only notable dangers would be:

1. Counter, but that's very risky for him, considering he still needs to claw his way back to the stage and will probably only attempt this if he's recovering from high up.
2. Side B, which really he will only do when he's close to the stage because it puts him in helpless after words. In fact, you can probably bait this and punish him back on stage since it has a small travel distance and has very noticeable landing lag. Unless of course he's trying to sweetspot the ledge, but that sets him up for an open Dair gimp if he's not careful.

So definitely when you get him off stage, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO TRY AND GIMP HIM! Zelda's recovery has amazing distance, so you can go in pretty deep for the gimp if you have to. The earlier you end his stock the better as it also resets his KO Punch meter.

Speaking of his KO Punch, if it does get full don't panic. All you need to do is smack him for 10% or more damage and he loses it! Just be aware to not use anything that'll leave you totally open and try to only take action when he makes himself vulnerable. Things like missed Nayru's or Smashes are really going to be your grave in this situation and you're both going to probably be playing very carefully once the KO Punch is charged up, so you're gonna have to be patient.

Or if you're already high %, Little Mac might try to end your stock ASAP so he can use a clean KO Punch on your fresh stock. Note that from 0-15%ish (possibly more with Vectoring), KO Punch will not kill you, so if you're on a fresh stock and Mac's got KO Punch, use this opportunity to knock it out of him! And if he hits you with it early, at said 0-15%~ it's WAY better to take the 35% damage than a stock, not to mention he's gonna have to build it up from scratch again. So keep these things in mind.

Also KO Punch in the air is utterly, utterly useless. It has no range, does only 13% and absolutely no knockback. Mac in the air = Yes for you.

Probably the biggest annoyances are gonna be his incredible ground normals (naturally).

- Jab is gonna probably be his main damage builder. Speedy and painful. If you end up shielding up to the point of his rapid jab part, try to hold out until you see the final punch part; you should be able to sneak in a dash attack or grab.
- Ftilt inches him forwards and definitely has a semi decent amount of kill power and is fast, so if you somehow manage to live up to a higher % be on the look out for this one.
- Fsmash whiffs if Little Mac is right next to you, unless he uses the Uppercut version. The power and super armor goes without saying.
- Usmash does not hit behind him very well, if at all. HOWEVER it has a very painful sweetspot if you're right in front of him (it'll have fiery effect).
- Dsmash is ultra fast, but not quite as much KO power as his other two smashes. Just don't get caught by this near the ledge.
- Dash Attack won't kill you 'till later %, and has a surprisingly low lag period so retaliation needs to be quick. If you're by the ledge, Dash Attack will almost always put Little Mac BEHIND you so accommodate for that.

Speaking of the ledge, this is one of the better places for Zelda to be actually in a neutral setting. Because Little Mac has no projectiles, he is forced to approach Zelda with a lot of risks involved:

1. Zelda's Back throw will most definitely end a stock if he's remotely high %, if only because he won't be able to recover. And if not, it's a free Dair chance / Bait situation.
2. If he grabs you and throws you off stage, there is no risk of returning back as he can't gimp (unless you count that Nair lock, but that's gonna cost him a stock too) and he can't kill you really with a throw unless you're 180%+ with his Bthrow at the ledge or something. So really, you're still alive! Just don't EVER try to Farore's Wind onto the stage. Always go for the ledge.
3. Probably the situation you need to be most worried about is if he starts to walk up to you. Ftilt and the like with his speed might kill you early... so be prepared to hold shield a bunch and react accordingly!

Hmm, that's mostly what comes to mind. I hope that helps? I'm sure I missed a few things, so please add onto this if needed!

I'm kinda of thinking of a defensive, playing safe with Farore's and phantom might not be a bad idea to keep him at a distance at least. I don't know if you want to use Din's on him, all things considered.

 

[DoctorDub]

There is still hope though! You have to abuse of the fact that he has an absolutely horrible, horrible recovery. So early gimping will be your best friend. One sweetspotted Dair offstage is pretty much the end of Little Mac at any % really:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWrbBw--YnA <= As evidenced here.

Okay, so that was pretty damn funny, I have to say.

 

[CandyCakes]

The little Mac vs zelda MC isn't that bad since just a simple dair can kill him, sweet or sourspotted he still won't be able to recover

 

[Lil Puddin]

To be fair, Sheik is better against most characters so it should be a given that Zeldoo would have problems with her too.

 

[Kayeka]

The little Mac vs zelda MC isn't that bad since just a simple dair can kill him, sweet or sourspotted he still won't be able to recover

Well, yeah, but you still need to get that dair, which can be problematic with Zelda's rather sluggish grab.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

For Little Mac, there's two things that have worked for me, mostly centered around slowing his momentum and getting some hits on him. First is uncharged phantoms. It's a gimmick but it'll provide a wall and breather room for you. If he hits phantom it also leaves him open for counter attacks. Still need to be careful of his super armor and counter, but if you notice him going that route, then start grabbing.

The second options is (credit goes to Kataefi or D3RK I forget who brought it up first) retreating pivot f-tilt and fsmash. This has really helped me against speedy characters lately. Besically you're just dashing and retreating out of their range and smacking them with a backhanded ftilt or fsmash. It's a simple strategy but effective, the range and speed on Zelda's pivots are pretty good.

Depending on the Mac, he'll continue to get hit or turn more defensive. If it's the second option, bait approaches with Din's and Charged Phantom (though be careful as both have crazy ending lag). Rinse & Repeat, the ftilts and fsmash quickly accumulate and soon he'll be getting knocked off stage and ready for that sweet dair.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I think were pretty done with this discussion for now since we haven't had any replies for a week lol. I'm going to compile some things when I get to my laptop but I do have an ending question.

has anyone attempted any custom moves against little mac? I actually got a chance too, but he was a bad player so cqc phantom aggravated him to no ended. So I just wanted to see if anyone else has had a chance to give customs a go.

Next matchup I think we should discuss is Marcina. I played a pretty good one the other day and the match is feeling similar to brawl, just no double Fairs.

 

[CandyCakes]

I think were pretty done with this discussion for now since we haven't had any replies for a week lol. I'm going to compile some things when I get to my laptop but I do have an ending question.

has anyone attempted any custom moves against little mac? I actually got a chance too, but he was a bad player so cqc phantom aggravated him to no ended. So I just wanted to see if anyone else has had a chance to give customs a go.

Next matchup I think we should discuss is Marcina. I played a pretty good one the other day and the match is feeling similar to brawl, just no double Fairs.

Marcina can space out zelda and it can be hard to approuch I think zeldavs offstage game is pretty good this game since they'll expect u to dair so they'll jump and U can punish with uair... And that can be useful and that was a big buff, her air game isn't amazing but it's to the point I can call it good since in brawl going offstage was suicide with her

 

[Phenomiracle]

Marcina can space out zelda and it can be hard to approuch I think zeldavs offstage game is pretty good this game since they'll expect u to dair so they'll jump and U can punish with uair... And that can be useful and that was a big buff, her air game isn't amazing but it's to the point I can call it good since in brawl going offstage was suicide with her

Or Nair. So long as you land the last hit of the Nair attack, though.

Seriously, I've found it to work well in moments where I've simply felt I could not land a Dair spike and just gone meh and hit the 'A' button.

 

[CandyCakes]

Now since RC pivot grabs a thing, It can out space Marcinas sword, I honestly think zelda could be mid tier this game

 

[Bottlecap]

Now since RC pivot grabs a thing, It can out space Marcinas sword, I honestly think zelda could be mid tier this game

This. I've been trying to maximize roll cancel pivot grabs and it works wonders on Marcina's approaches, as well as Kirby and Jiggs.

 

[Rickster]

Marcina pretty much feels the same as Brawl to me. Getting in is the hardest part for me, but the RC Pivot Grabs should help with this. Make sure to punish any non-cancelled aerials by them. If they charge a smash or Shield Breaker, try to hit them with Farore's. I don't really have much else to say about this MU, lol.

Also, has anyone else noticed that you can sometimes fall out of Lucina's Dancing Blade at the 2nd or 3rd hit? Haven't had it happen with Marth, yet. When it does happen, it's a free punish (if you can get to the ground fast enough) if they follow through with the combo. Might even be able to get a sweetspotted bair off.

 

[CandyCakes]

Let's talk about peach, it's a pretty hard matchup for zelda since peach can kill early and can approuch safely. I've heard people say that it's one of her worst match ups

 

[Rickster]

I play a pretty good Peach player quite often, and I definitely struggle when I use Zelda. I agree it's one of her worst MUs.

I guess we could start discussing how to deal with Peach's shield pressure? I noticed they like to dair your shield constantly, or follow the dair with a nair/bair. Not entirely sure what to do when I'm getting dair'd except roll away.

Oh, and her new rainbow uair juggles sooo well. It also doesn't help that we basically have a blind spot underneath us (especially since her uair easily beats our dair).

Oh, and Peach floating after you offstage with that crown in her hand is terrifying.

 

[Deleted member]

I play a pretty good Peach player quite often, and I definitely struggle when I use Zelda. I agree it's one of her worst MUs.

I guess we could start discussing how to deal with Peach's shield pressure? I noticed they like to dair your shield constantly, or follow the dair with a nair/bair. Not entirely sure what to do when I'm getting dair'd except roll away.

Oh, and her new rainbow uair juggles sooo well. It also doesn't help that we basically have a blind spot underneath us (especially since her uair easily beats our dair).

Oh, and Peach floating after you offstage with that crown in her hand is terrifying.

Rick you could have just said my name GAWD.
Edit: Oh jeez I feel like an attention ***** nao.

 

[CandyCakes]

I play a pretty good Peach player quite often, and I definitely struggle when I use Zelda. I agree it's one of her worst MUs.

I guess we could start discussing how to deal with Peach's shield pressure? I noticed they like to dair your shield constantly, or follow the dair with a nair/bair. Not entirely sure what to do when I'm getting dair'd except roll away.

Oh, and her new rainbow uair juggles sooo well. It also doesn't help that we basically have a blind spot underneath us (especially since her uair easily beats our dair).

Oh, and Peach floating after you offstage with that crown in her hand is terrifying.

It seems like nayrus love is pretty useful in the match up and phantom slash is good for peach trying to approuch, I use RC pivot grabs a lot in the match up since it can space so well and at mid percents even a sourspotted dair offstage could KO her

 

[Rickster]

It seems like nayrus love is pretty useful in the match up and phantom slash is good for peach trying to approuch, I use RC pivot grabs a lot in the match up since it can space so well and at mid percents even a sourspotted dair offstage could KO her

I actually haven't been using RC grabs yet, since I'm still trying to perfect it. But I can definitely see how it could shut her float approaches down.

I don't have much to say about Nayru's...good for catching rolls, I guess. I personally don't use it in this MU much, except as a counter to Peach's dsmash.

I agree, dair is great here. Just one tap from it can really exploit Peach's "meh" vertical recovery. Just make sure not to be stage spiked by the parasol or a floating uair, lol.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Any tips for Greninja MUs?

I remember losing against one online for five straight matches, with him two-stocking me once. On the sixth match, I switched to Link and two-stocked him. Sorrow loser quit his ass and left our match after that.

Phantom is pretty much worthless on him as an edgeguard, since he can easily opt for an overhead recovery the moment he sees us charging. His ground hitboxes are ridiculously large, making the roll-game all the more harder to play.

 

[Yuniverse]

I don't have much advice on the ninja (both of em shiek and the frog) but I personally think if nintendo actually did their homework they would know people in the competitive scene don't always play on FD ><, mus like little mac on "for glory" would be much easier if zelda had her playground back: battle field......i would settle for even smashville

hell ill let marth, shiek, mac, and greninja take me any where in tourney........but a flat stage

 

[CandyCakes]

Any tips for Greninja MUs?

I remember losing against one online for five straight matches, with him two-stocking me once. On the sixth match, I switched to Link and two-stocked him. Sorrow loser quit his *** and left our match after that.

Phantom is pretty much worthless on him as an edgeguard, since he can easily opt for an overhead recovery the moment he sees us charging. His ground hitboxes are ridiculously large, making the roll-game all the more harder to play.

Naryu cancels out his shadow sneak so that could help and use phantom slash when greninjas trying to approuch and try to punish his Usmash quite a bit. It's harder to edge guard with this matchup so when he's just gets on the ledge steal it from him and then punish him with an aerial

 

[Rion]

This is a bit off topic, but I thought it'd be a nice thing to post for you guys to think about for the Zelda match up in general!
________________________________________________________________

A bit of a Zelda realization I had: Jungle Japes is actually a great stage for her.

Not only do the side platforms protect her from speedier character shenanigans since it's disconnected from the main platform, but it also forces people to approach her in much more predictable way because you need to jump to get to her. For people with no projectiles (or good ones for that matter), you can basically throw Din's 'till the Cows come home. Even if you miss or if they dodge, the situation is either :

1. They are going to get knicked by a fire eventually, and that's gonna make them want to approach you because they're tired of the stalemate. This is most likely in your favor, since the only approach they can do is jumping onto the platform the engage you, which makes it much easier to anticipate their moves against you.

2. Even if they don't engage, there is going to be a point where they'll either give you enough spacing to make it safely onto the main platform to engage them instead, should you choose to.

So it's your advantage in either situation. She has enough tools and the stage advantage to deal with people that try to the reverse to her herself for the most part.

Also, because the stage has so many ledges you can get away with a lot of safe Farore teleport recoveries. You can either teleport to the one of the side ledges or you can even teleport to the main stage ledge because of how far her teleport goes.

Another plus would be gimping becomes extremely ridiculous in this stage, especially on the left side (since the current flows from right to left). Even if you sourspot, the rushing current basically will kill anyone that touches it really due to the super fast carrying it has (or a klaptrap if you're lucky). Not to mention for certain people with very vertical based recoveries, they won't be able to dip down too low because of the above, making it much easier to edgeguard them/punish them for over jumping the height.

Also Dsmash:

Need I say more? Okay, okay, that might have been a very lucky one I got there, but still!

This is a very good example of how the current really work in your favor when you're on the offensive. The speed of it is really not to be under estimated.

This is all still early conjecture, but I would like to explore this stage more with her. I really think it would be a pretty great counter pick against certain characters or even just an overall good stage for her in general. Hopefully I'm not too over my head on this, haha.

 

[CandyCakes]

I

This is a bit off topic, but I thought it'd be a nice thing to post for you guys to think about for the Zelda match up in general!
________________________________________________________________

A bit of a Zelda realization I had: Jungle Japes is actually a great stage for her.

Not only do the side platforms protect her from speedier character shenanigans since it's disconnected from the main platform, but it also forces people to approach her in much more predictable way because you need to jump to get to her. For people with no projectiles (or good ones for that matter), you can basically throw Din's 'till the Cows come home. Even if you miss or if they dodge, the situation is either :

1. They are going to get knicked by a fire eventually, and that's gonna make them want to approach you because they're tired of the stalemate. This is most likely in your favor, since the only approach they can do is jumping onto the platform the engage you, which makes it much easier to anticipate their moves against you.

2. Even if they don't engage, there is going to be a point where they'll either give you enough spacing to make it safely onto the main platform to engage them instead, should you choose to.

So it's your advantage in either situation. She has enough tools and the stage advantage to deal with people that try to the reverse to her herself for the most part.

Also, because the stage has so many ledges you can get away with a lot of safe Farore teleport recoveries. You can either teleport to the one of the side ledges or you can even teleport to the main stage ledge because of how far her teleport goes.

Another plus would be gimping becomes extremely ridiculous in this stage, especially on the left side (since the current flows from right to left). Even if you sourspot, the rushing current basically will kill anyone that touches it really due to the super fast carrying it has (or a klaptrap if you're lucky). Not to mention for certain people with very vertical based recoveries, they won't be able to dip down too low because of the above, making it much easier to edgeguard them/punish them for over jumping the height.

Also Dsmash:

Need I say more? Okay, okay, that might have been a very lucky one I got there, but still!

This is a very good example of how the current really work in your favor when you're on the offensive. The speed of it is really not to be under estimated.

This is all still early conjecture, but I would like to explore this stage more with her. I really think it would be a pretty great counter pick against certain characters or even just an overall good stage for her in general. Hopefully I'm not too over my head on this, haha.

Is jungle japes a legal stage? And also that she can block most attacks with her phantom slash. Farores Wind doe omg it killed early and for matchs like peach and bowser could be very useful. Her offstage game is the most improved thing, if someone is of stage they'll be scared of ur dair so they'll try to jump up to dodge it and that's when u do ur uair... This game zelda is at least midtier for sure

 

[CandyCakes]

https://game8.jp/matome/14157

Here is the Japan tier list and she's in the low-mid tier... I honestly expected her to be higher but I'll take it

 

[JigglyZelda003]

OP is updated with a summary on Little Mac matchup. discussion was short so i feel it gives a general overview on how we should approach the matchup, but feel free to take a look and shoot any suggestions my way.

 

[GameAngel64]

On that topic (Little Mac) I just had a match where I let the Phantom take the One Hit KO Punch on my behalf when Mac thought for sure he had me...

 

[Brinzy]

- try to save your kicks for whenever Marcina's lagging from whiffing abilities

- Marcina is strong against shields so do your best to powershield most of their abilities if possible.

- don't roll into smart Marcinas that don't use super laggy moves, and try to keep at least one fresh smash attack. You generally won't kill Marcina at early percents unless you nail a sloppy play with a heel, so save your Dsmash for when you're going for a kill. Their recovery from a low-angled launch is pretty bad.

- make use of Din's on predictable aerials and Phantom on predictable ground attacks if you are having problems punishing otherwise. try to either poke outside Marcina's range if it's safe or try to fight very close. Anywhere else is a losing battle for Zelda.

 

[CandyCakes]

Also RC pivot grab because it outranges Marcinas sword and to get them offstage and edgeguard or spike and punish

 

[JigglyZelda003]

hmmm I'm thinking we move to peach. We've already lightly started discussing this match anyway and I just had an idea that I want to test against peach to see if the match can be any easier.

 

[Meek Moths]

ive never encountered a strong peach player in for glory so far, she a scarcely played character, but those which i fought werent that strong and they die easily beause light & floaty

 

[PrimalCarnage]

Same for me, not enough Peach's online to form a strong opinion on her. Of the few I've thought, I did notice that since she's in the air a lot, lots of our spacing tools are more limited. Dtilt, fsmash and dsmash are harder to land.

 

[Brinzy]

With the addition of the Phantom, this match-up is slightly easier because it gives Zelda a decent option to keep Peach away and get easy damage in while protecting against turnips. A single jump or short-hop into an immediate Down B should actually help Zelda against a Peach that is approaching, and they generally will because she's strong at this.

Beyond that, the match-up is still a losing one for Zelda because Peach is faster and kills at slightly earlier %s thanks to easier to land moves and a great recovery.

- ftilt is a lot more reliable in this match-up than most others because (for me at least) Fsmash is just asking Peach to get a free nair off if you're unlucky or if Peach is airborne. If you catch her on the ground, Fsmash away if you get the chance, but ftilt is a lot more reliable and a bit faster.

- Usmash is not as strong as it was in Brawl; Peach can aerial you through it easily. Don't spam this if you're the type who does, and save it for punishing dodges and rolls, or if you know it'll kill.

- Grab is going to be a lot better in this match-up than most others, because the option to dtilt may be limited depending on how effective the Peach is. Similar to Jiggs you'll want to jab her approaches, but don't get too predicable with the grabs/jab because a well-placed fair will hurt.

- there isn't too much lag on throwing turnips from the ground, so don't roll or try to Nayru's it. If you're caught using Din's, aim it at the ground. Down B will block it and hit Peach if she's close enough, and it's a decently safe option if you're not predictable. Most Peach players will use the turnip in tandem with another attack to hit you around your shield or to bait your shield to begin with. Especially be wary of the stitch-eyes turnip more than any of the rest, because it hurts. Peach can pull bombs; these can be reflected easily but if you mess up, you've probably lost the game.

- for any time Peach is playing on the ground, dtilt will be your best option and is only slower than her jab as far as I am aware. She can chain attacks pretty easily at low %s, so if you know she's coming in for a hit during low %s, Nayru's her. She doesn't have very many lingering attacks.

- as good as her aerials are, she's most laggy here. Hope you've been practicing your heels if she messes up, because you'll need as much damage as you can in this match-up.

- recover early against Peach because 1) Peach can just follow you off-stage for a kill, and 2) Farore's still has a long wind-up and the second part of the move will of course slap her out of float, so if she isn't paying attention you can get a potentially easy KO. I don't recommend going for this unless you are reading your opponent very well. As in most match-ups, charged Phantom will be a solid way to edgeguard Peach, mostly because your other options are dangerous besides Din's. Her aerials will have superior priority.

At least 4:6 Peach.

 

[Kataefi]

At the height in which she floats to attack your shield, pivot grab her. She'll either float higher or retreat her aerials instead. Pivot grab is absolutely key as it outranges her aerials funnily enough and is generally a good anti-air if you don't slide back.

Also when she floats, keep track of the time in which you think she'll land. Don't dins fire her landing as she can cancel that and a lot of her landing lag with nair. Just shoot a phantom or teleport into her when she lands to keep her in check every now and then!!

The thing about peach now is that a lot of her range has become more honest with her animations. You can really space against her very well on the ground as her jab/ftilt are no longer as interruptive than in brawl, while zelda's jab/ftilt/fsmash have been fine-tuned!! Zelda's grab being wtf great also allows her to grab things she could NEVER have done before in this matchup!!

Also I n the air, she can't abuse fair/bair to the ridiculous levels she could in brawl... So you can contest her float with all kinds of stuff now. Aerial phantom is good if she has a turnip as it can shield against her turnip lag cancel!

I think this matchup has become much more even, and vastly improved from brawl. Number wise I'm not sure but we'll have to wait until there's more tourney experience and stuff

 

[CandyCakes]

Peachs uair has so much prioriety so it might be hard to spike

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I haven't played against Zelda in this game yet but if it's anything similar to brawl the mu for Zelda is awful.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I could play some Zeldas here so you can get a first hand on a good Peach player since most of you are saying you never played one.

From what I seen of this character the match up is slightly less of a struggle for Zelda due to her phantom. And She has a OoS option that can kill. Though spacing and TLC's can make Peach safe from it and leave Zelda wide open.

The rest just seems like a rinse and repeat from brawl, in which Peach wins.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Kataefi:
At the height in which she floats to attack your shield, pivot grab her. She'll either float higher or retreat her aerials instead. Pivot grab is absolutely key as it outranges her aerials funnily enough and is generally a good anti-air if you don't slide back.

You are gonna eat a dair for that. If I float at the right height, you can not pivot grab me and you will either eat a dair or get shield pressured. Also with a Floating fair, I can clap Zelda right on her head at the right height avoiding her Grab. Her fair has more range then you think. Its better in this game.



Also when she floats, keep track of the time in which you think she'll land. Don't dins fire her landing as she can cancel that and a lot of her landing lag with nair. Just shoot a phantom or teleport into her when she lands to keep her in check every now and then!!

Ok.

The thing about peach now is that a lot of her range has become more honest with her animations. You can really space against her very well on the ground as her jab/ftilt are no longer as interruptive than in brawl, while zelda's jab/ftilt/fsmash have been fine-tuned!! Zelda's grab being wtf great also allows her to grab things she could NEVER have done before in this matchup!!

Her Fair, Dtilt and are not honest to her animatiom AT ALL. Her Dtilt hitbox has long reach. Her Fair hitbox is past the swing animation. Her jabs are still hella quick. The only nerfs about it is that I cant quickly jab cancel her first jab. And the range on her first jab is nerfed. Her second jab has more range. If I space a move like nair I can jab you out of anything you try to do if you wish to push a button on me. You are still not safe from this set up. I just have to be more careful with it and on point.

Also I n the air, she can't abuse fair/bair to the ridiculous levels she could in brawl... So you can contest her float with all kinds of stuff now. Aerial phantom is good if she has a turnip as it can shield against her turnip lag cancel!

I can auto cancel fairs via short hops and use that as a spacing tool. And if I have a turnip in hand and space it on shield, I can then TLC. So I can still abuse fair to stop your approaches in the air and pressure your shield. I can also short hop auto cancel bair and its also good for spacing in the air. I can do a floating fair and land at the right time to cancel the lag. And be safe from whatever counter attack you have ready for me thinking you can punish it. If I have a turnip in hand and I fair your shield upclose I can TLC canceling the fair animation INSTANTLY AND TOSS THE TURNIP. Punishing anything you try to do OoS. Think of it as a replacement for my fair to jab pressure. But better and more frame traps from it.

 

[Soluble Toast]

I could play some Zeldas here so you can get a first hand on a good Peach player since most of you are saying you never played one.

From what I seen of this character the match up is slightly less of a struggle for Zelda due to her phantom. And She has a OoS option that can kill. Though spacing and TLC's can make Peach safe from it and leave Zelda wide open.

The rest just seems like a rinse and repeat from brawl, in which Peach wins.

I'd love to play you at some point. :3

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'd love to play you at some point. :3

We'll set something up soon then.

 

[Soluble Toast]

We'll set something up soon then.

Excellent. I look forward to it!

 

[Awesomecakes]

Is Naryu's love viable in this matchup? I feel like it could be a good gtfo option for an approaching peach. Though it depends on how big of a range is gets when it hits.