Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Gee N.O, you certainly rock with these rom hacks. Who knows if this'll become a meme on internet sometime due the sheer irony!

In fact, you should continue. Wonder if you could tackle Pokemon Puzzle Challenhe, as that already has PDP-sprites and like.

 

[N. Onymous]

Who knows if this'll become a meme on internet sometime due the sheer irony!

Ha, that's wishful thinking! I'd love for it to happen though, it would be fantastic for Panel de Pon to get the recognition it's been lacking for ages.

I'm not too sure about Pokémon Puzzle Challenge. Like I said on the last page, I'd be more likely to try and hack the Game Boy Tetris Attack "back into" Panel de Pon. I'd definitely use some of the graphics that were hidden in Challenge, though.
Because I'm relatively amateur at ROM hacking, though, it's a bit out of my puzzle league at the moment. I'd have to...

• Find a way to decompress all of the graphics so I can edit them (this is the big one)
• Hack the title screen and ending music into the one from Panel de Pon
• Change Yoshi's themes into Lip's
• Edit the Mt. Wickedness/Death Mountain events to play out like they did in Panel de Pon (I could recycle Bowser's entrance for Thanatos's entrance but I'd have to come up with something new for Cordelia)
• Find some free space for Cordelia's panic theme
• Change the ending animations

(And on top of all that, since Bumpty is completely missing from the port, poor Sherbet wouldn't make an appearance!)

Maybe someday. I don't know. I think for now it's best if I stuck to the NES Yoshi.

 

[ϟPlazzapϟ]

Ooh can i support lip, i actully have a moveset for her that i could post later :3

 

[BluePikmin11]

Be sure to post it @ϟPlazzapϟ
Most people who promise a move set usually forget to make and post their moveset.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Ooh can i support lip, i actully have a moveset for her that i could post later :3

Sure, I could add it still to the OP, so go ahead.

 

[N. Onymous]

With DLC still up in the air, it's never too late to support Lip. I'd love to see your moveset.

 

[FalKoopa]

So I caved in and played a bit of Puyo Pop Fever. Is it just me, or are they like long lost cousins? Why can't Nintendo handle PdP like Sega does Puyo? ;_;

 

[N. Onymous]

That's actually a great question. Puyo Puyo had relatively humble beginnings, with either no face characters or very little (supposedly Arle makes an appearance somewhere, but there's no story mode), and only really took off when they were added. Panel de Pon started off (semi-?)popular when it used the characters, then bombed horribly when they were removed.

There are similarities in the general theming of the game and even their localizations during the nineties. Puyo Puyo seems like it's more comedic in nature than Panel de Pon though. They're both light-hearted ultimately, but if they had RPG spinoffs, Puyo Puyo would be the Mario & Luigi (more distinctly upbeat and humorous) to Panel de Pon's Paper Mario (mostly cheerful and silly, but knows when to take itself seriously).

...You know, there should be a crossover between the two games, now that I think about it. Nintendo and Sega have joined forces before for the Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games series, and we got Puyo Puyo Tetris a year or two ago. Maybe Panepon x Puyo Puyo Golf or something? Make it happen, guys!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Arle should be absolutely glad she's not dead and buried like Lip is (completely contrary to that), even if she's not much in Sega's crossover games. Having a Tetris-crossover is rather sweet already IMO.

I wonder if to change the title back though to give support to Lip again, I personally believe we have nothing to go from compared to other threads to meet than just wishful thinking, frankly.

 

[N. Onymous]

At the same time, Lip isn't gone either. Not yet, anyway. She's just rarely seen. Maybe if we make enough noise we can change that, but that's not much more than wishful thinking either.

Rant under the spoiler, it's kind of messy:

Spoiler

When you really think about, there was basically no reason to replace the fairy characters with Yoshi's Island ones, and no reason for the poor treatment/lack of acknowledgement the Panel de Pon characters have received in recent years, except sexism. None at all.

I know that these days that term gets slung around so much it seems to have no meaning, but here I'm 100% convinced that it's the case. It wasn't because it was cute. The Kirby series started out four years earlier and it was selling just as well as it always had. Nope. It was because the main character was a girl and the rest of the cast was largely female.

Just compare the gender ratios: Panel de Pon is 3:10. The localized Tetris Attack is 12:1 - a complete sausage party except for Naval Piranha (allegedly), who is a villain. No official word on the subject, but the intent is clear: they didn't expect boys to buy "girl stuff" and didn't count on there being any girl gamers. From the looks of things and Nintendo's apparent Western focus as of, oh, 2010 or so, they still don't. It's backwards, it's ugly, and it's very upsetting.

What's particularly sad is that Panel de Pon has, for a Japanese work, one of the most progressive stories I've ever heard of. Lip is a princess, but she isn't kidnapped, she doesn't go off to save a male relative or love interest. She doesn't even get any romance subplots. She just gets up and goes to fight against her oppressors because they messed with her friends and her way of living. (Furil is similar, except for - I believe - the romance.) It's exactly what every third-wave feminist has been dreaming of. But boys don't buy girl games! Who cares what girls think! We want money! Bowser is being a jerk again, go beat him up!

Wasted potential. All of it.

 

[CH4F]

Count me in the support thread. We need more puzzle representation in Smash.
And I've got a small question. What means "Panel de Pon" in japanese?
I'd love to se a remake / new episode come in Wii U or 3DS, but what will be the EU/NA name of it?

When you really think about, there was basically no reason to replace the fairy characters with Yoshi's Island ones, and no reason for the poor treatment/lack of acknowledgement the Panel de Pon characters have received in recent years, except sexism.

And dumb american marketing work, as always, back in the 80's/90's. The list's heavy: This, Vega/Bison/Balrog mixup in SF, Mega Man box art and so on.
Which it's pretty stupid, since this is a puzzle game. Lip and her friends are just some gover in the box to make the game pretty.

 

[FalKoopa]

If Panel de Pon had come out like 10 years later, it probably would not have met such a fate.

 

[N. Onymous]

And dumb american marketing work, as always, back in the 80's/90's. The list's heavy: This, Vega/Bison/Balrog mixup in SF, Mega Man box art and so on.
Which it's pretty stupid, since this is a puzzle game. Lip and her friends are just some gover in the box to make the game pretty.

The Vega/Bison/Balrog switch was done to avoid a likeness infringement lawsuit with Mike Tyson. The Mega Man box art, on the other hand, was a clear case of one hand not talking to the other (apparently, it was done by a sci-fi novel cover artist on short notice off of a vague description that a Capcom employee gave him over the phone).

Puzzle games were oddly susceptible to this back in the 1990's. Remember, Puyo Puyo got this treatment, too - twice over. The original arcade game was localized, but international players got Kirby's Avalanche and Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. These was done for sexist reasons too (female protagonist? We can't have that, now can we?), but at least those games tried to differentiate themselves and even remixed music from the original Puyo Puyo. They feel like their own installments in the series, not just a reskin. What was done with Panel de Pon, and what is still done with Panel de Pon, was just annoyingly, obnoxiously transparent and blatant. They even left Lip's palace on the Vs. mode map screen. The whole thing feels half-hearted in a sense, like it was only done to get rid of those horrible, awful female characters.

And I've got a small question. What means "Panel de Pon" in japanese?
I'd love to se a remake / new episode come in Wii U or 3DS, but what will be the EU/NA name of it?

It means "Panel Pop!", basically. The current official name of the series is Puzzle League, which I don't quite like exactly since it comes from the Pokémon series and as such isn't exactly a fair representation of what happens in the game, but it's better than Tetris Attack at least.

If Panel de Pon had come out like 10 years later, it probably would not have met such a fate.

I'd love to believe this, I really would, especially considering a couple of Puyo Puyo games were released internationally in the 2000's, but remember that as recently as 2007, Lip's stage was completely disabled from the international release of Planet Puzzle League. Not even replaced. Nope, the executives didn't even think she deserved that much. Even a hidden stage had too many cooties for them.

Anything could happen, I guess, but...

 

[CH4F]

We'll get either this or a clone.
Some guys're gonna release a Columns clone, because Sega doesn't want to make another one. I don't mind, even I prefered to play an original version.
And the only thing I wished about the series in the 90's was an arcade release.

 

[N. Onymous]

The great thing about Nintendo is that they've officially given fans their blessing to use characters in fangames without fear of a C&D. If anyone out there wants to make a Panel de Pon clone, there's absolutely nothing stopping them from using Lip and friends.

I'm personally still waiting on Panel de Pon RPG, though... hopefully an official one.

 

[LipFlare]

Hi there!

Ahh the Puyo Puyo & Arle story. Yeah Sega doing well to value the legacy from Compile!

Arle: Derives from a RPG [Madou Monogatari] then she and her storys were used to give a puzzle game [Puyo Puyo] more depth to be then "suddenly" acuired by Sega. Sega modified the concept arround Puyo Puyo step by step form being fokused on on single person an her story to give more characters a spotlight and story [Fever parts & PP7] over to give every single In-game-character a story [The anniversary versions]. And now Sega managed to bring Arle & Co back to a (more or less) RPG [Puyo Puyo Quest].

I think this is some feat for a puzzle game character (most of Arle's appearances are puzzle game releated so I consider her as one).

While I think that Smash bros 4 doing it's job as a platform fighting game good I think that it made a step in the wrong direction with the missing story mode -where the characters really shine-. Also missing are signs of a revival for a newcommer's IP (Ex:Brawl's Pit)
exept for the revival of cashflow in every possible form that it can also be seen as... brilliant. I mean... (Some exaples)

Mega Man that Virtual Console hype! (Pre Smash bros 4 release)
Toon Link Wind Waker ... in High Definition on Wii U!
Rosalina + her Amiibo let me think about Wii U Virtual Console Wii promo (Mario Glaxy 2)
Yoshi I thought that he was the toughest I mean music from a game in Smash 4 that isn't released at all but then...
Monado boy Shulk hit's my mind and I was really feeling it ... originally I just thought : "Hmm a New 3DS exlusive not bad." ,but then there is Xenoblade Chronicles X ...only Fire Emblem X Shin-Megami Tensei can top that but only WITH Amiibo support from all 4 FE characters :D

Yeah I think still that a Smash Bros is possible to bring out revived characters like Pit once but I am unsure if it could be Lip
in such a story lacking entry like "4". Puyo Puyo and Arle showed how it could be done!

Sorry for the long post again and I hope that I don't hit someone's nerve. Anyway have a good time everyone!

LipFlare

 

[BluePikmin11]

Nintendo is going mobile apparently, lots of games on the iOS are puzzle games, perhaps Panel de Pon has the chance to get revived there and become successful.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I can't believe this only just crossed my mind, but why don't we try to get Lip Smashified?


After having Rayman done, I would want Lip the most next.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I didn't even think to request Lip... I'd love that but I doubt we could get enough people for it. If he doesn't keep doing entirely third-parties, I'd bet we'd be seeing K. Rool, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Inklings, etc.


On another note, I feel like Nintendo's new announcement for Mobile development could potentially be a boon for Panel de Pon, since its the perfect thing to fit onto a handheld device.

 

[JamesDNaux]

This will have to do in the meantime.

 

[JaidynReiman]

This will have to do in the meantime.

Oh, so Lip WAS made. Great. Now I just need to go download the Dixie one and make myself a sig with them.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Oh, so Lip WAS made. Great. Now I just need to go download the Dixie one and make myself a sig with them.

I made these.

Here's Dixie as well.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

On another note, I feel like Nintendo's new announcement for Mobile development could potentially be a boon for Panel de Pon, since its the perfect thing to fit onto a handheld device.

I actually wanted to come here to mention the very same thing.

I just wonder will this be a moot thing due Pokemon Shuffle now existing which more or less plays in a similar fashion.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I actually wanted to come here to mention the very same thing.

I just wonder will this be a moot thing due Pokemon Shuffle now existing which more or less plays in a similar fashion.

Not even close. Panel de Pon is a very original style of match 3 puzzle game, and that's why I love it so much. I don't really care for other types of match 3 puzzle games, honestly. At the same time I can see other people making that comparison and it does scare me because they're on complete opposite ends of the spectrum as far as match 3 puzzle games are concerned.

 

[N. Onymous]

After thinking on it for a couple of days, mobile platforms might seem like a good place for a Panel de Pon reboot to happen, but you have to remember that:

A. The mobile market is already thickly saturated with puzzle games.
B. These puzzle games have a bad, bad, bad tendency to be offered for free or cheap, then hide something - extra stages, powerups that the player can only be truly competitive by using, extra lives, the ability to progress further in the game - behind a paywall that the user is all but strangled to shell out the cold hard cash to remove.

Pokémon Shuffle (incidentally more like Poké-Bejeweled than anything Puzzle League) is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. It's fun, sure, but your moves for each stage are limited, and if you blow through all your lives trying to catch that Pokémon, well, you better either have the patience of a saint or have a lot of friends who play the game and who you can tag with StreetPass, or else you'll have to bust out the $$$.

Other examples, off the top of my head:

• Candy Crush Saga is like Shuffle when it comes to microtransactions, except worse in just about every conceivable way. It uses paywalls for everything. Extra lives, powerups, more stages, you name it. It even forces you to pay money for stages that are (intentionally) too hard to be defeated without a certain powerup, IIRC.
• Tetris Blitz constantly nags you to buy real-money powerups, which are necessary to use/pay for if you want any shot at all at the leaderboards, and on top of that, it goes so far as to flash annoying banner ads at you every now and then. Which can be removed. By giving EA your money.

Combine the mobile market's near-fetishistic obsession with microtransactions with Panel de Pon's art style, which is exactly the kind of bright, colorful, cute style that would appeal to young girls (hint hint, Nintendo), and you're looking at another My Little Pony scandal waiting to happen. For the uninitiated, a young girl in the UK ended up spending £900 on a supposedly free MLP iOS game because of its gem currency. You need ridiculous amounts of gems to get some of the main ponies in-game. Gems, of course, cost real money if you aren't willing to grind for them - and very few people are.

...As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the whole freemium model. There's nothing I'd hate more than for this series (and our fairies!) to be associated with a cheap smartphone game that forces you to pay up in order to get anywhere. Lip deserves better than that.

 

[FalKoopa]

If Nintendo uses the freemium model, I'll lose faith about their mobile gaming plans.

At the moment, I'd like to wait and watch as to how they handle mobile games before commenting.

 

[N. Onymous]

There's no real reason to assume Nintendo won't use microtransactions in their mobile games. Sega uses them, Capcom uses them, Sony uses them... It's a tried and true method to trick gullible cell phone users into paying money for a game they thought they were getting for free. And if you don't need the microtransations to get through the game, you're certainly badgered enough that it seems to be the case.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for a Panel de Pon revival to happen. Honestly. I miss Lip and friends and I want to see them again, and it really makes me angry that this great - and marketable - series has been going neglected and unloved for so long. It would go down better a lot better than I know the Nintendo executives feel and always have felt it would, and I'd be much more likely to buy it than a lot of what Intelligent Systems has been putting out lately. (I haven't been a big fan of Mario Party since 2005-ish, and I am legitimately more interested in Mario Party 10 than I am in Code Name: STEAM. It looks gimmicky, dumb, and like a transparent attempt to cash in on the steampunk fad. I'm sorry, it does.) But at the same time, I don't want that revival to be in the form of a cheap, low-effort smartphone game that constantly pesters players to BUY AN EXTRA GARBAGE BLOCK NOW FOR ONLY $0.99 US! every five minutes or so. Doing that would destroy any illusion that doing well in the game is a matter of superior skill, strategy, and reflexes. It would turn the game into a contest of who has more money to spend. Smartphone gaming has been leaning that way more and more in recent years, and it's pretty sickening, honestly. I don't want Panel de Pon to be butchered like that.

Keep in mind that for many people, this would be their first exposure to the fairy characters period. Do you really want Lip - the character we all want in Smash Bros. badly - to be associated more with a microtransaction-filled smartphone game than with the higher-quality fare on Nintendo's actual consoles?

 

[CannonStreak]

I support Lip! Add me to the support list!

 

[CH4F]

If Nintendo uses the freemium model, I'll lose faith about their mobile gaming plans.

They already doing it on 3DS, with Pokémon Shuffle.

And I answer N. Onymous and everyone who think mobile is a puzzle game Eldorado.
There's 2 different types of puzzle games we're talking about. One is a solo and fun game and the other is an arcade 1v1 game. Panel de Pon, just like Puyo Puyo or Magical Drop, have a massive fondation on strategic and versus play. That's not the case of Tetris Blitz and every King's "Saga" games.
The arcade feels very unconfortable in mobile, since you need very quick and precise controls. Touch isn't one, but pad and arcade stick is.
Panel de Pon or every Puzzle League on mobile platform might be a curse, because if one of these game is in mobile, how can you hope about a console (or even on Arcade cabinets, let me dream) port, for "serious" and superplay/speedruns?

 

[N. Onymous]

Platform games aren't very well suited for the mobile platform either, remember. They also require quick and precise controls to dodge the obstacles they throw at you, and yet the first two Sonic games and Mega Man X (sort of...), not to mention a whole host of original platformers, are on the iOS.

---

It seems a new Nintendo Direct will be coming soon. Just once I wish they'd surprise me and announce a new Panel de Pon game, maybe even with its own amiibo line. Just once. Of course, judging from past behavior, I know it'll only be the big IPs, Splatoon, Code Name: FLAVOR.OF.THE.MONTH, and maybe the new Star Fox and/or Fire Emblem if we're lucky. (Please prove me wrong!)

 

[CH4F]

I didn't about platform games like Mario or Mega Man, but the mobile platform, as a version of a game in either console, PC, arcade or mobile.
Sorry for that, I don't have a flawless english.

And I have a question for PDP players, especially if you've already made some tournaments.
Do you think games and rounds are very lengthy? Do you need some "time ups" to determine quickly and fairly a winner per round? Like a score or a quota.

 

[N. Onymous]

I understood what you meant just fine. You were worried that Panel de Pon would be dumbed down if it was put on mobile. What I was saying is, platform games aren't really well suited for mobile gameplay either (the lack of touch feedback is a problem), and yet there they are on the app store.

Panel de Pon game rounds aren't that long, usually. For me it's usually about a minute or two, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the tournament games go on for over five.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I understood what you meant just fine. You were worried that Panel de Pon would be dumbed down if it was put on mobile. What I was saying is, platform games aren't really well suited for mobile gameplay either (the lack of touch feedback is a problem), and yet there they are on the app store.

Panel de Pon game rounds aren't that long, usually. For me it's usually about a minute or two, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the tournament games go on for over five.

When playing games with my sister or back in the day when I played with my cousin, we repeatedly broke the timer and extended well beyond 10 minutes (the timer in the original Tetris attack caps off at 9:99). I swear my cousin and I used to play rounds upwards of 20 minutes. In 2-player VS. of course. Garbage Blocks all the way!

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm not really a profession Panel de Pon player, or a professional anything player (heheh), so my word shouldn't be taken as absolute law, but that's generally how long my Vs. mode matches last.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'm not really a profession Panel de Pon player, or a professional anything player (heheh), so my word shouldn't be taken as absolute law, but that's generally how long my Vs. mode matches last.

I don't consider myself a professional player either. I'm just REALLY good at Panel de Pon. Its probably the one thing I could do professionally if professional Panel de Pon play actually existed.

EDIT: Right now I probably can't. My hands feel like crap at the moment. My hands hurt really bad when I do certain things. Playing on 3DS and chopping meat/cheese are the main things that make my hands ache like crazy. Actually its more the wrists than anything.

 

[N. Onymous]

Hypothetically speaking: Say Nintendo does release a new Panel de Pon game for the iOS. A one-time cash payment to download. No microtransactions or anything. You pay about $5 to download it, you're done. Gameplay-wise, it's got the best of the original game, Tetris Attack, Pokemon Puzzle League/the Nintendo Puzzle Collection pseudo-sequel, and Planet Puzzle League.

This game does not use the fairy characters. It has the same generic, bland presentation as Planet Puzzle League. Maybe the fairy stages are later released as free DLC skins, but most likely only in Japan.

Your reaction?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Hypothetically speaking: Say Nintendo does release a new Panel de Pon game for the iOS. A one-time cash payment to download. No microtransactions or anything. You pay about $5 to download it, you're done. Gameplay-wise, it's got the best of the original game, Tetris Attack, Pokemon Puzzle League/the Nintendo Puzzle Collection pseudo-sequel, and Planet Puzzle League.

This game does not use the fairy characters. It has the same generic, bland presentation as Planet Puzzle League. Maybe the fairy stages are later released as free DLC skins, but most likely only in Japan.

Your reaction?

Its better than nothing. I absolutely love the idea of a new Panel de Pon game, especially one I can play easily on the go. Yeah, I do have Pokemon Puzzle Challenge, but its kinda outdated. Its ok, but there's also the fact I won't necessarily always have my new 3DS on hand.

I'd be peeved that the fairies weren't in the game, but I'd at least be happy they didn't forget about the series all-together.

 

[N. Onymous]

Some Panel de Pon is better than no Panel de Pon, but no fairies is a lot worse than some fairies. I love the series' gameplay, but what I'd really love to see happen is for the characters to be brought back. They've got such simple, yet such excellent designs, especially Lippy. I really don't want them to fade away.

 

[CH4F]

Hypothetically speaking: Say Nintendo does release a new Panel de Pon game for the iOS. A one-time cash payment to download. No microtransactions or anything. You pay about $5 to download it, you're done. Gameplay-wise, it's got the best of the original game, Tetris Attack, Pokemon Puzzle League/the Nintendo Puzzle Collection pseudo-sequel, and Planet Puzzle League.

This game does not use the fairy characters. It has the same generic, bland presentation as Planet Puzzle League. Maybe the fairy stages are later released as free DLC skins, but most likely only in Japan.

Your reaction?

Pissed off. Really.
PDP is an arcade game. That type of games needs to be played on a big screen, like consoles offers. Also, even if we're having online for these game, this is heavily a 1v1 local game. You only need one single setup to play with a friend.
And finally, iOS only? Android isn't just a mobile OS. Consoles like the new Nvidia Shield or the OUYA runs on Android. So we can catch the arcade/console concept with pads AND have a touch/solo version of these.
So, no. A BIG no.

 

[N. Onymous]

The Nintendo Direct stream wasn't loading for me, but apparently, there will be more DLC for SSB4 past Mewtwo, since Lucas just got confirmed. Lip still does have a chance to be in the game, even if it's a small one.

Vote for her here! https://cp.nintendo.co.jp/us/