Pac-Man Fever: Fire Hydrant Trickery and Bonus Fruit Hijinx

[kyoskue]

Currently Under Reconstruction
I'm in the middle of tidying up this mess of a post into something more Guide-like, but I'm pretty busy.
I'll try to finish it up tonight.

I'll say this right now: I am NOT a Pac-Man expert.
I am; however, a man with too much free time and an obsession with fire hydrants and fruit.

So here are some fun tricks that I've discovered that you can add to your list of shenanigans.
PS: I don't exactly post here often, so if someone wants to add this to a pretty looking guide that folks are likely to use (such as ptrk83's), that'd be great.
PPS: I didn't ACTUALLY test on Final Destination, but rather on Omega Pac-Maze, so when I refer to FD, I actually mean that. I don't know if any Omega stages are of varying lengths or if they are exactly equal to the real FD stage.

So first off, trajectories.
The hydrant can be launched in numerous different ways, depending chiefly on the attack that sends it flying.

Ground Bounce
Launchers: F-Tilt/Strong, F-Smash, D-Tilt/Strong, D-Smash, sweet-spotted N-Air, sweet-spotted B-Air, Jab 3, Dash Attack
Trajectory: First bounce touches the ground just shy of 1/2 the length of Final Destination. Second and third bounce are roughly 1/4 of FD in distance each, has enough momentum to carry itself over the edge of Final Destination before disappearing.
Apex: Roughly 2 hydrants high at 1/4 Final Destination distance away
-----
*Pre-patch the hydrant would land and disappear at the opposite edge of the stage if it bounced from the very tip of the ledge, so either its distance covered, momentum, or time before disappearing have changed slightly.

Long Bounce
Launchers: Orange
Trajectory: First bounce hits dead center of Final Destination, second bounce approximately 2/5 of Final Destination past that
Apex: 2 Hydrants high @ 1/3 of Final Destination

Mini Bounce
Launchers: Sweet-spotted F-Air, Cherry, Strawberry, Bell
Trajectory: First bounce lands @ 1/4 Final Destination, second about 1 character length short of of 1/4 FD, third is about 3 character lengths, hydrant vanishes at a total of 3/4 of FD
Apex: 2 Hydrants high about 3 character lengths away

High Bounce
Launchers: Getup Attack, Ledge Attack
Trajectory: First bounce covers roughly 3/4 of Final Destination
Apex: 3 Hydrants high at roughly 1/3 Final Destination distance away

Super Bounce
Launchers: U-Smash, Apple, final hit of D-Air
Trajectory: First bounce touches down just past 1/2 Final Destination, second is about 2 character lengths shorter than 1/2 FD
Apex: 1st: 5 Hydrants high at slightly past 1/4 Final Destination away, 2nd: 3 1/2 Hydrants high
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*Something to take note of: In order to Super Bounce in the proper direction with U-Smash, you must be on the side of the hydrant that you want the attack to go while facing the hydrant; i.e., to Super Bounce to the right you must initiate an up smash on the right side of the Fire Hydrant while facing left.
Can alternatively be done via the final hit of Pac-Man's D-Air, timing it so that the D-Air is started at the apex of a short hop. Three of these D-Airs will send the hydrant on its way. In order to send it in the proper direction with D-Air you must hit it on the OPPOSITE side of where you want to send it, unlike when up smashing it.
Apple is obvious, have your character on the opposite side and throw it in the desired direction.
*Originally was two uses of down air, requires three uses of down air after patching.

Anti-Air Bounce
Launchers: U-Tilt/Strong
Trajectory: First bounce lands directly behind Pac-Man, second and third bounces are tiny and only a few character lengths in distance, disappears less than 1/4 FD
Apex: 4 Hydrants high directly above Pac-Man, 2nd: about 2 Hydrants, 3rd: barely leaves the ground
-----
*Like U-Smashing for the Super Bounce, it is initiated from the direction that you wish the bounce to travel while facing the hydrant.

Tumble Bounce
Launchers: Jab 1, Jab 2
Trajectoy: First bounce lands directly in front of Pac-Man, other bounces are minimal, it vanishes about 3 character lengths away as a lingering hitbox
Apex: 2 Hydrants high directly in front of Pac-Man, 2nd: 1 Hydrant, 3rd: barely leaves the ground

Now, besides the different bounces, I've discovered that combinations of the Fire Hydrant and Bonus Fruit can have some really interesting properties.
First off, all Bonus Fruit besides Galaxian Boss and Key stop dead when hitting the hydrant, these two will cut straight through and they can both launch the hydrant without any prior attacks. Galaxian Boss requires proper spacing for the loop to center on the hydrant so that it can strike it twice, about 2/5 of FD away (or about 2-3 steps from the edge of FD, for the mathematically challenged). It's not too difficult to time the throw so that the hydrant fires water in between the two hits, the ship looping overhead as it happens.
As for the Key, you can get a combo with the Hydrant from that same distance, getting a guaranteed 28% from 0% if the Key strikes the enemy. This also works if you are extremely close to the hydrant as well, but has trouble in hitting properly at medium ranges.
Was tested on Mario, so you will likey need to alter the distance depending on lighter/heavier enemies or if they have higher damage.
I was still able to pull off the distant combo on Mario as high as 115% by altering the distance slightly.
You can also guarantee the combo against any character at any damage if they are standing directly beside the hydrant on the opposite side. It K.O.s around 120% from my experience.

Next up on my list of ATs is a set that I both collectively and lovingly refer to as "Fruit Gushers".
Fruit Gushers are utilizing both the hydrant's water and the Bonus Fruits to create new methods for attacking with our projectile.
So far I have discovered Rush Gush, Bounce Gush, and Deflect Gush.

Rush Gush is when a Bonus Fruit is tossed in such a way that it gets pushed along by the hydrant's water, increasing its speed and distance covered, as well as sometimes changing the way it moves.
This is done by standing close to the hydrant and tossing the fruit over it to the other side so that the water gush rushes it along.
Can be done with Cherry, Strawberry, Apple, Galaxian Boss, Bell, and Key.
The fruits can also be tossed from the air, in particular Apple and Bell get quite a bit out of this, with Bell being rather difficult to time properly. Cherry's not especially great, but it works.
To Rush Gush Galaxian Boss or Key, "simply" throw them THROUGH the hydrant with proper timing.
I say "simply" because the timing is very strict, especially for the Key because it'll knock the hydrant away in one blow, so it needs to touch the hydrant THE VERY INSTANT that the water comes out so that the oncoming water doesn't alter its trajectory.

Speaking of oncoming water, Bonus Fruit that are tossed into the oncoming torrent will perform a Deflect Gush.
All Bonus Fruit can be Deflect Gushed.
The best to use are the Orange (deflects upwards at a 20º angle continuing forward), Melon (deflects upwards at a 340º angle backwards) Bell (goes flying horizontally behind you at a startling speed), Galaxian Boss (deflects straight up, loops, continues at 45º angle forward), and Key (continues forward but deflects to a 60º angle).
Again, the Bell's timing is difficult.

The final one; Bounce Gush, is done by standing on top of the hydrant in order to coax out the upward water spray.
Next, leap to the side and toss your chosen Bonus Fruit into the water to jettison it upwards, well over the top of the screen.
All Bonus Fruit can be Bounce Gushed, but the Apple is rather heavy and seems to only have a slight change to its usual trajectory.
Galaxian Boss and Key react exactly as they do when they are Deflect Gushed, so refer to that to see how they work out.

Unsure if these are known, but Melon, Galaxian Boss, and Bell can all be tossed and then caught by Pac-Man before they vanish. They can then be thrown as items, or even Z-dropped infinitely so long as they are picked up before they vanish. Galaxian will resume its wacky trajectory in the direction thrown and the Melon will move in slow motion. Bell does its thing, but can be thrown up or down.
If the Melon is tossed upwards it creates a nearly static hitbox for several seconds before disappearing.
Down tossed Melon/Galaxian Boss/Bell seem to work as capable edge guarding tools as well.
Z-dropped Melon can K.O. Mario from the center of FD at 151%, Galaxian Boss at 195%, and Z-dropped Bell is useless for K.O.ing (not even over 250%). Z-dropped Bells also lose out on their nifty stunning properties.
You can also do these with the Cherry/Strawberry as well, to varying effectiveness.

Z-dropped Bell IS really good for Rush Gushing though, depending on if it lands in front of the water or on top of it, it can work as a veritable bowling ball or even similarly to the springs from the Donkey Kong arcade game. It can also be thrown down into the water for similar effect, except it even gets its stun back!
I refer to this as "Bell Bowling".

Another neat Rush Gush related Bell trick, once Pac-Man is holding the Bell as an item just let the hydrant's water push him. At any time that the water is exerting its momentum on Pac-Man you can throw, jump throw, or Z-drop the Bell and the water's momentum will carry over to it. This gives you the freedom to completely alter the Bell's thrown and Z-dropped trajectories, even tossing it more than the entire length of Final Destination!
Also works with all Z-dropped Bonus Fruit, and if thrown while the water is actively pushing Pac-Man speeds up the following: Cherry, Strawberry, Orange, Apple, and Melon.

My final one for the night is very simple and of dubious usage, what I refer to as "Phantom Fruit".
To do Phantom Fruit simply press and hold B to use Bonus Fruit, but shield before anything shows up in Pac-Man's hand. This'll let out the tone of the specific Bonus Fruit that you are currently holding but not actually show it.
This may be useful if the player forgets which fruit they are holding but doesn't want to alert their opponent with visual clues.
May have some potential as a fake-out.

 

[kyoskue]

A few other things that people may not know:

1. Setting a trampoline directly on top of your hydrant will cause it to spray upwards as if you were standing on it. You can use this for creating a pseudo wall or for easier Bounce Gushing.

2. The quickest ways to turn the hydrant into a projectile are probably these:
-Walk off of the hydrant opposite the direction you want to send it.
-While in the air, hold toward the hydrant and BAir.
-Continue holding towards it and f-tilt.
This should ALWAYS send it flying, and it can be done before the water first comes out.
You can also try an uncharged fSmash or dSmash.
An alternative is to drop thehydrant at the height of your second jump, fast fall to its side, and d-tilt twice.

Apparently its also possible to do this with just one bair, but its not consistent and needs more testing to figure out what causes it.
*Turns out that training mode does not take the "fresh bonus" into account, where the first time an attack is used per stock inflicts increased damage. This caused a discrepancy.
Besides that, Pacman's Fire Hydrant can now sustain more damage before being sent flying, making the use of a single BAir to send it flying impossible. It can still be sent flying in one hit with the "Key" Bonus Fruit, or quickly with two hits via my aforementioned BAir and a follow-up attack, such as side tilt.

3. You can barrel through the water's momentum with a dash attack, making it a useful way to damage the hydrant or even send it off as a projectile.
Can also be used to prolong combos by pushing your foe TOWARDS you while you hit them.

4. Another good way of sending the hydrant careening across the stage is via his side special, Power Pellet. It's possible to combo the hydrant and tackle together for a sweet 25%.
You can also change Power Pellet's trajectory with the different "Gusher" techniques described above, or even angle Power Pellet in various to cover more options while still sending the hydrant flying.

 

[ptrk83]

Gonna be replying to this when I get home from work lol

 

[dirtytacos89]

Dragontamer Edit: This post is no longer true as of patch 1.0.3

Very thorough! I heard that his bair may have a sweet spot. I've sent the fire hydrant in motion with 1 bair against a computer, but when I tried it in the practice mode I could not do it.I thought maybe pac man would have to be at or above a certain percentage, but I've tested pac man up until about 120 and he still will not send it flying with one bair.



Edit: I was messing around and I noticed that the very first 2-5 bairs from when you start the match would make the hyrdrant move without a doubt. After that if no other moves were are used I think the move loses some of the knockback, not much, but enough to require two hits for the hydrant. To be able to knock it away with one hit again you have to actually land some other moves on your opponent.

Does anyone know if losing a stock 'refreshes' the knockback for your moves? I kinda feel like it does, but just a teency amount.

 

[Ragna22]

I find it fun to spawn a hydrant just to distract opponents cause most of the guys I fight immediately go after it just to hit me with it so I save a key to throw at them while they're on the other side of the hydrant knocking out both them and the hydrant, it's even better if they happen to get hit by both the key and the bouncing hydrant and even if they do manage to knock the hydrant towards me there's still a chance that the key will catch them in the middle of the recovery animation of their last attack.

Obviously it's not something that will work all the time but I love messing dudes up with this trap when I get the chance.

 

[BSP]

Dragontamer Edit: Launching Hydrant in one Bair is no longer true in patch 1.0.3 and above.

Very thorough! I heard that his bair may have a sweet spot. I've sent the fire hydrant in motion with 1 bair against a computer, but when I tried it in the practice mode I could not do it.I thought maybe pac man would have to be at or above a certain percentage, but I've tested pac man up until about 120 and he still will not send it flying with one bair.



Edit: I was messing around and I noticed that the very first 2-5 bairs from when you start the match would make the hyrdrant move without a doubt. After that if no other moves were are used I think the move loses some of the knockback, not much, but enough to require two hits for the hydrant. To be able to knock it away with one hit again you have to actually land some other moves on your opponent.

Does anyone know if losing a stock 'refreshes' the knockback for your moves? I kinda feel like it does, but just a teency amount.

In non training mode matches, your moves get a small boost for being completely fresh (x1.05 or something). This might explain why you can launch it with one bair in a match, but not in practice mode.

Dying completely refreshes your moveset.

 

[kyoskue]

Got a few more things that I've figured out, unsure if they're known yet or not.

1. You can catch a thrown Apple if it is "Deflect Gushed" (ie; thrown into oncoming water from the hydrant).
This is actually surprisingly useful, as up/down throwing it creates a bouncing static hitbox that does 9% and has decent knockback. Down thrown Apple is especially useful in this regard.

2. I found a use for the "Phantom Fruit" (ie; canceling Bonus Fruit with shield before the fruit appears).
When used while still ascending mid-jump, Bonus Fruit will increase Pac-Man's jump height and slow his descent. Normally canceling Bonus Fruit with shield in mid-air results in an air dodge, but Phantom Fruiting it gets you the height with no lost time, allowing you to use it a second time with your double jump.
The extra height gain from two uses is about 1 1/2 Pac-Man's tall, so nothing to sneeze at.
Tested on Omega Green Hill Zone while zoomed out, Pac-Man's normal double jump height will have his hand barely go over the bottom-right corner of the platform on top of the loop-de-loop in the background, but the extended jump can get Pac-Man's eyebrows to go over the top of the 1-Up box.

3. A thrown Apple Bonus Fruit + jab 1/2 will cause Tumble Bounce in the hydrant extremely easily.

 

[Lenca]

Did they stop allowing pacman to drop his fruits/key/bell with Z? I am unable to do it, all it does is air dodge

 

[doyouknowbobby]

Did they stop allowing pacman to drop his fruits/key/bell with Z? I am unable to do it, all it does is air dodge

Sounds like you switched controls to make Z the shield button. What controller are you using?

 

[Galaxian]

Wow, this is big! I'll have to give it a read once I've got more time.

Good stuff!

 

[dragontamer]

Ugggh.... this is going to be an issue. A lot of this topic is from the 3DS version prepatch.

I'll edit some things that are no longer true. But please, think of the 1.0.3 patch before bumping old topics! The Bair launch and instant Melon launches were a big deal!

EDIT: I think I covered all mentions of Bair. I don't think anyone remembered that Melon launched in one strike back then... so I didn't have to edit that fact out. If anyone else notices something that isn't true anymore, please let me know and I'll edit that post.

 

[kyoskue]

Did they stop allowing pacman to drop his fruits/key/bell with Z? I am unable to do it, all it does is air dodge

You can only Z-drop HELD items.
What you are currently doing charging up a Bonus Fruit, but NOT holding it as an item.

You need to toss said Bonus Fruit, chase it down, and re-catch it with A.
You can do this with Pacman's dash attack, FAir, or even air dodging through the projectile.
In my own experience it works easiest with Cherry, Melon, Galaxian, and Bell, although all of them can be caught with A if they are stopped or reflected/thrown back at you.
Once you're holding a Bonus Fruit this way then you can Z-Drop it.

It takes some work to setup, but the possibilities are pretty much limitless from there.

Ugggh.... this is going to be an issue. A lot of this topic is from the 3DS version prepatch.

I'll edit some things that are no longer true. But please, think of the 1.0.3 patch before bumping old topics! The Bair launch and instant Melon launches were a big deal!

EDIT: I think I covered all mentions of Bair. I don't think anyone remembered that Melon launched in one strike back then... so I didn't have to edit that fact out. If anyone else notices something that isn't true anymore, please let me know and I'll edit that post.

Its a good idea to keep the sum-total of gleamed information from the pre-patch version for posterity's sake.

Thanks.

 

[Mtn64]

Its actually possible to catch Cherry, Strawberry, Melon, Galaxian, Bell, and KEY on FD Stage types as pac.
I will be posting a video soon on how pacman can grab Key on FDs and some other neato goodies.

 

[kyoskue]

Its actually possible to catch Cherry, Strawberry, Melon, Galaxian, Bell, and KEY on FD Stage types as pac.
I will be posting a video soon on how pacman can grab Key on FDs and some other neato goodies.

Oh, the Key even?
How is that done, some kind of animation canceling?

 

[Mtn64]

Oh, the Key even?
How is that done, some kind of animation canceling?

I made a video explaining it and will post to boards soon in a new thread.
Seems this is already known knowledge
Sorry

 

[kyoskue]

I made a video explaining it and will post to boards soon in a new thread.
Seems this is already known knowledge
Sorry

I think I figured it out: you just toss it at a ledge and catch it, don't you?
Wow, I'm an idiot for not thinking of that sooner. (>_<())

 

[Mtn64]

Pretty much.
Apparently you can also use the fire hydrant hit to grab key by getting hit just as key gets pulled out (it drops and you can grab it)
Square wall OMs seem much easier to do it on than FD type walls, though if you hit near the top edge you can grab it.
Also heard something about SH BAir Key FAir but I don't understand what they mean, I'll find out later.
EDIT: Check the pacman main directory stuff

 

[kyoskue]

Pretty much.
Apparently you can also use the fire hydrant hit to grab key by getting hit just as key gets pulled out (it drops and you can grab it)
Square wall OMs seem much easier to do it on than FD type walls, though if you hit near the top edge you can grab it.
Also heard something about SH BAir Key FAir but I don't understand what they mean, I'll find out later.
EDIT: Check the pacman main directory stuff

Once I thought of it I figured it out very quickly.
The short hopped back air is just a general timing guideline for when you want to throw the key to have it bounce off of the average stage's side to a point where you can still both catch it with forward air (his fastest aerial) and recover back to the stage.

Its honestly very similar to a trick I've been pulling off with Link's Bombs for months.

 

[Mtn64]

I actually edgeguarded a villager by bouncing key, best part of it was it was a last stock kill

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Are you talking about this?

 

[Mtn64]

Yes

Are you talking about this?

 

[kyoskue]

Are you talking about this?

Ooh, nice vid.

I haven't explored the boards lately and haven't kept using Pac-Man (too busy to work on all of my favorites, and I figured that Link could use more love).