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Olimar Matchup Thread

steelguttey

mei is bei
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
1,674
Hey guys! So this forum has enough people who have general knowledge about Oli to have some insight into most matchups. A usual matchup thread just dies on its own most of the time, but a thread that talks about specific characters has better insight because the conversation is focused on one specific matchup. This is an idea that I totally stole from the Ness boards has been used a couple of times on Smashboards and i think will work here due to Olimar's very strange matchup spread. So lets get started!

BY THE WAY if you want IMMEDIATE HELP with a character go to this thread and ask

POST FORMAT (for me mostly)

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steelguttey

mei is bei
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
1,674
Character: Bowser

Stages: Final Destination, Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium 2, Smashville and Delfino's

Optimal Pikmin Lineup: two not-purple pikmin and one purple pikmin. preferably whites.

Matchup Ratio:
:olimar:70-30:bowser2:
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+1 Olimar. Olimar's got so many tools to out space and out camp Bowser in neutral. Pikmin tossing is incredable useful since the Bowser can only swat them of with either a laggy move or his jab and that makes him susceptible to their affect. Bowser of course is also severely comboed by Olimar not that that's a surprise. That's not to say Bowser is completely dominated, he's got some good going for him. Bowser can really make use of Oli's lack luster recovery with really hard punishes. Also if the Bowser is very dominant in the neutral game Olimar can have trouble find options to get stage control back. Overall in Olimar's advantage but very doable for Bowser.
Olimar should never, ever recover against bowser.
Nair is probably bowser's best option for getting pikmin off of him. Flame breath is still all right assuming pikmin get hit by transcendent hitboxes (not sure on that one).

It might be hard to find many Bowsers with a lot of experience against olimar.
Extremely tough MU for Bowser. Most important thing for Oli is probably to be able to SH -> side B -> waveland.
So if I'm off stage I should just let myself plummet to my doom. Can't argue with that. I forgot about Bowser's N-Air, yeah that might be a better option then a stationary jab.
Oli's nair alone poops on Bowser.

also why doesn't Bowser's nair always get Pikmin off of him it's so ****ing dumb
I'd say it's +2 Oli's favor.

Pivot Grabs, Nair and Fsmash make approaching Oli pretty hard for Bowser. Even worse, we have Pikmin Slide, allowing us to keep playing neutral forever if need be without skipping a beat (but he'll approach eventually) and/or bait out moves to punish. We juggle him for days with late Nair > Up Tilts/Up Smashes > Up Airs or Up Throw > Up Tilts/Up Smashes > Up Airs and can easily send him off stage after that with Fair/Bair and finish it with another Fair/Bair for the edgeguard or just Dair him.

As for stages, avoid small stages like the plague (think YS, WL, maybe GHZ). You should go for big stages, but most of those have platforms that Bowser can use to get around with wavelands, kind of rendering the reason to go there (running away while chucking pikmin at him cause he's too slow to keep up) moot. FD is probably the best pick because it lacks platforms (taking away movement options for Bowser) and isn't small. Small stages are good for Bowser, but it goes both ways; he takes up more space, but in turn has a harder time avoiding grabs and the like, so it's not the end of the world if you screw up bans.

Idk if I'm missing something, but we win neutral, we probably win in punishing and go even in the edgeguarding department (Bowser's Bair is terrifying 9.9 ). It sounds pretty disgusting to play as Bowser tbh. I'd like more input on what Oli should watch out for or how to DI x thing from Bowser from @Odds_ or someone. I'd say how to DI Up Smash (down and away at really low percents, up and away at higher percents) and the like, but Bowser is so fat that it doesn't matter most of the time.
I feel like any character that can hold neurtal forever is a really bad match up for bowser, but maybe with flames and the right gimps and movement (patience and safe plays) it may be 40-60 (which honestly can be way worse for a character who can camp to such a nasty degree
this is what the oli skype group said about the mu
[8/31/15, 7:30:20 PM] steelguttey: yo
[8/31/15, 7:30:26 PM] steelguttey: im starting the matchup thread up again
[8/31/15, 7:30:28 PM] steelguttey: its booser time
[8/31/15, 7:54:23 PM] RiDEL: Already writing my thoughts.
[8/31/15, 8:17:15 PM] Ryan Knight: I play Oli and Bowser but haven't done this MU from either side in 3.6
[8/31/15, 8:17:31 PM] Ryan Knight: never even played against Oli with my Bowser
[8/31/15, 8:19:46 PM] solideem: The MU Olimar was made for
[8/31/15, 8:22:57 PM] Ryan Knight: I played Odds in a set in 3.6b but that's not enough for me to get any reliable info from
[8/31/15, 8:23:25 PM] solideem: not reliable
[8/31/15, 8:23:32 PM] solideem: but you definitely have authority to speak your mind
[8/31/15, 8:23:48 PM] solideem: on how you feel since you played, one of the premier mains with that character in a set
[8/31/15, 8:24:47 PM] Ryan Knight: bowser's bair invalidates oli's recovery but Oli dominates the neutral game in every way
[8/31/15, 8:24:58 PM] solideem: YUPPPPPPPPPPPP
[8/31/15, 8:25:04 PM] Ryan Knight: but if Oli gets touched it seems like he dies
[8/31/15, 8:25:54 PM] Ryan Knight: it was actually the quickest set I ever played
[8/31/15, 8:26:08 PM] solideem: Olimar's a glass cannon.
[8/31/15, 8:26:13 PM] Ryan Knight: every stock from each of us was pretty much a 0-death
[8/31/15, 8:26:15 PM] solideem: you're entirely right.
[8/31/15, 8:27:15 PM] solideem: at least, from my experience ein the MU
[8/31/15, 8:27:40 PM] Ryan Knight: but Odds is just so good that he can get around it being a bad mu
[8/31/15, 8:27:53 PM] Ryan Knight: against me anyways
[8/31/15, 8:27:59 PM] solideem: you're either on the ground, r you're on your way out of a stock
[8/31/15, 8:28:03 PM] solideem: Even with your skill level
[8/31/15, 8:28:09 PM] solideem: I'm sure it was interesting for him
[8/31/15, 8:28:14 PM] solideem: trying to figure out what to do in the MU
[8/31/15, 8:29:19 PM] Ryan Knight: FD seems like the stage to go imo for Oli
[8/31/15, 8:29:53 PM] Ryan Knight: no platforms to give Bowser his movement and it makes it way harder for him to bait out attacks
[8/31/15, 8:30:10 PM] solideem: this is one of our "Keep away MU's"
[8/31/15, 8:30:17 PM] solideem: we really don't have to fight bowser
[8/31/15, 8:31:43 PM] Ryan Knight: the thing I found is because Bowser has really good movement options on stages with platforms it's easy for him to corner Oli
[8/31/15, 8:31:54 PM] solideem: only on stages with platforms
[8/31/15, 8:32:06 PM] solideem: I like to play king of the hill vs bowser
[8/31/15, 8:32:12 PM] solideem: find a stage like battlefield, sv
[8/31/15, 8:32:18 PM] solideem: ghz
[8/31/15, 8:32:24 PM] solideem: and play my *** of to keep center stage
[8/31/15, 8:32:43 PM] Ryan Knight: I would personally never take a Bowser to battlefield
[8/31/15, 8:32:49 PM] Ryan Knight: a good one anyways
[8/31/15, 8:33:01 PM] solideem: you may not get that option
[8/31/15, 8:33:06 PM] solideem: not taking him anywhere with platforms
[8/31/15, 8:33:09 PM] solideem: except maybe ps2
[8/31/15, 8:33:27 PM] solideem: because they're far enough outside of center stage where options still present themselves without ge3tting you cornered
[8/31/15, 8:34:48 PM] Ryan Knight: I think if a tourney is using the bottom middle 5 as starters, they all favour Oli except battlefield
[8/31/15, 8:36:46 PM] Ryan Knight: maybe it's just from my experiences, but Odds just makes Bowser look like sonic with his movement on that stage
[8/31/15, 8:39:36 PM] solideem: Yoshi's (Melee,) BF, Wario Ware alllll must go.
[8/31/15, 8:40:01 PM] solideem: just the nature of the matchup.He's designed to try to get in on an opening from the opponent
[8/31/15, 8:40:27 PM] solideem: Olimar zones bowser so well
[8/31/15, 8:41:48 PM] solideem: Aerial Bowser is sub par, because his aerial mobility is slow and most of his moves we can cover off reaction (except a side )
[8/31/15, 8:43:20 PM] Ryan Knight: once you're underneath bowser, the only thing he can do is go for a platform
[8/31/15, 8:43:48 PM] Ryan Knight: or bowser bomb to the ledge
[8/31/15, 8:43:56 PM] solideem: Once you're underneath bowser you make him ****ing regret his ******* decision of commiting to an option that placed him over one of the best jugglers in the entire game
[8/31/15, 8:44:14 PM] solideem: or so I've heard
[8/31/15, 10:28:10 PM] steelguttey: is it weird to say that i like that we have a bad recovery cus it enhances the high risk high reward jazz we have goin on
[8/31/15, 10:28:21 PM] steelguttey: but yea you guys basically got the mu covered on all places
[8/31/15, 10:28:43 PM] steelguttey: theres a bug with booser where you throw a pikmin at one of his spikes
[8/31/15, 10:29:01 PM] steelguttey: and the pikmin starts hitting bowser, but bowser cant get the pikmin off and the pikmin cant do damage to bowser
[8/31/15, 10:29:03 PM] steelguttey: so literally nothing happens
Yea thats basically what i figured it would be like, a giant game of tag and keep away. Does olimar have a chain grab to a certain percent on bowser?
uh i think my thoughts on the mu are... bowser is a really annoying character if yo udont know his di patterns, i suggest going to the bowser boards and asking which ways to di his throws and his confirms cus he ****in hurts if you di incorrectly. anyway, on olimars side its real easy. throw pikmin and when he approaches, fsmash. the only real neutral option he has is blame breath and you can just hop on a platform and wait. then reset to neutral. pretty easy. just keep throwing pikmin, eventually he has to smarten up and hit them off then you just punish his laggy ass moves. snoooore. he edgeguards you hella hard tho

Character: Captain Falcon

Stages: Fountain of Dreams, Warioland, Yoshi's Story

Optimal Pikmin Lineup: 2 purples and a non-purple

Matchup Ratio: :olimar: 60-40 :falcon:

Tips:
we didnt get a whole lot of tips on this but

i did a review on dotcom's match vs smokey which i talk about the mu quite a bit. i think we win it simply because we dont let falcon use his speed and quick aerials unless we are both in neutral in a completely equal state, which doesnt happen very often. our punish game on falcon not only lets us rack up huge amounts of damage but also lets us stagger on pikmin after. so end combos with fair, even if you have to end them early. the reason for this is so when he lands, you start throwing pikmin. when he has a pikmin on him he has very limited options. dash dancing, while still possible, is a bad idea because all it will do is make him take damage. he can run back, uair and hit the pikmin off and reset the situation, in which we can just throw another pikmin, or he can simply charge at you with a nair, which is what a ton of falcon's looove doing. when this happens, depending on the spacing you should fsmash or simply block it and fair/bair him oos. edgeguarding falcon is simple, learn the spacing for fsmash to cover the ledge and whenever hes offstage get ready to use it. if you think hes gonna go for side b, you should side b him mid flight and he'll go into freefall because he'll hit the pikmin.

Character: Charizard

Stages: Smashville, Pokemon Stadium 2, Battlefield

Optimal Pikmin Lineup: 1 purple, 2 non-purples

Matchup Ratio: 5-5

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Warning: pure theorycrafting below

We kinda win neutral because Pikmin Toss, doubly so because Zard lacks moves that covers his entire body (besides Up B or something, but doing that in neutral...). He CAN ignore them but we got them "respect my space" moves (pivot f smash/grab, retreating bair/RAR fair to name a few) to make sure he doesn't charge in often. He's still fast, though, so make sure to not be to predictable with those keep out options and Pikmin Toss, or he'll get in and grab you.

That's bad, because Zard can tech chase pretty well and we have a fairly poopy tech roll. This means that if we get grabbed, we eating some damage and possibly get offstage against one of the best edgeguarders in the game. On the other hand, if we get a grab, he eats 60-70% or worse, and will have to recover against f smash and other nice things with that percent (if we didn't kill with a Purple Up Air mid juggle). We combo him harder by virtue of him being a fatty, but he can close out stocks early with a low percent edgeguard or a Sky Attack (Up Air(s) > Up B) star KO, so punishes are evenish, I guess?

It's one of those MUs where whoever gets grabbed dies, but we edge out neutral just because Zard can't get Pikmin off of him without committing. I'd say about 55-45 to 60-40 (at best) in our favor, but it's probably evenish. Maybe if someone played Zen we'd get a better idea...oh well 9.9
I've played a little in this mu so I can't say non of this is concrete. Also some of this may stem from my style of play rather then general Olimar stuff soooo yeah.

Zard is big. He's combo fodder. But his aerials can be annoying and beat out ours. Camp, get a grab, combo. Best case you land a side-b purple and grab him out of his tech.

On recovery i'm not to sure if his neutral aerial can go under the ledge enough to hit us before we sweetspot, but I wouldn't doubt it. Edgeguarding him can be pretty easy imo. He has three jumps but they're not huge and his up-b works in a way that he cant really sweetspot unless he goes (nearly) straight from under it and its really predictable
i think this mu is still even like it was in 3.0, simply because zard is a grappler that is very fast with long range, but slow moves with a ton of knockback. which means side b beats him when we get it on him, but he can beat us if he gets anywhere near us that we dont like. i think its even, purples arent a real necessity in this matchup which is uncommon.

Character: Diddy Kong

Stages: Wario Ware, Yoshi's Story, Delfino's Plaza

Optimal Pikmin Lineup: Purple, Purple, Yellow

Matchup Ratio: :olimar:5-5:diddy:

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Character: Diddy Kong

Stages: Wario Ware, Yoshi's Story, Delfino's Plaza

Optimal Pikmin Lineup: Purple, Purple, Yellow

Matchup Ratio:

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I agree with slight diddy favor. It's a really fun MU, imo.

Diddy has a lot of outs for olimars pikmin shenanigans. He has significantly better overall movement, and if he is on a stage with a good platform layout for him movement (battlefield is his best stage) he is really hard to catch and always threatens space with banana archs from any point on it. But both characters really suck at approaching each other, and hold center stage really well, and combo/edgeguard each other really really well.

I'm not super well versed in olimars side of the MU, but from diddy's side my goal and options in neutral are very clear: let him pluck so I can pull a banana out, then don't mess up and wait for him to do something I can either grab, side b, or throw a banana at. If he throws a pikmin I have a few options to deal with it. Jumping over it and risking losing stage control isn't worth the stray % because the punish game is already so severe, so I just eat it and kill it quickly. Bair can hit all of them out of the air (does 12%) but my favorite counter play is to jump facing away, z drop a banana which hits the pikmin off you, then pick one of 4 options depending on how I feel in the situation: if I'm close and I want to hit them and I'm not afraid of getting grabbed I'll do a falling bair. If im not comfortable where I am and I'm afraid he is going to jump up and fair me or grab my landing, I'll just agt real quickly, making space between us while still putting out a hitbox towards you (which I can covert into a grab if It hits or if shielded if I'm in range). It's the safer option but risks losing the banana, and particularly loses to sh pikmin waveland. The safest option when I just don't want to be at that spot and don't want to risk anything is to just waveland away, you give up some space but you keep the banana and you can potentially be in position to whiff punish if olimar jumped at me. If I want to power through a 2nd pikmin or read olimar trying to shield the bair or the agt, I'll do a falling side b and combo off of that with big damage.
Diddy's goal is to covert into grabs and just do falcon combos on olimar, upthrow upair fair is amazing vs olimar and puts him in a garbage position to recover from. Simple banana covertions all work, all nair combos work, simple middleweight combo trees. I NEVER want to jump in when olimar is in a position to pivot grab, it's just hell. Olimar wins at max distances where bananas are reactable, and close ranges where olimars faster tilts are more potent (and if diddy had a banana he can't quickly use his ground options). If I get grabbed I should die.
Diddy edge guards olimar by harassing olimar off stage with projectiles and just bair him out of up b, or hold ledge and do late/reverse upair to keep olimar off stage. Eventually you'll force Oli to go low, then you just hold ledge and punish accordingly, so olimar should try to go high and platform cancel, and make sure you sdi/di all moves properly so you have more chances for diddy to mess up.

Fsmash edge guards diddy nearly by itself. The only thing fsmash doesn't cover is high up-bs and perfect horizontal sweet spots, which are reactable or lose to bair from ledge, respectively. Diddy's recovery is long but easy to intercept if you learn how it works and react to his angle choices.


Important counter play/things to look for:
Watch out for the soul fist, sh popgun agt banana. It's diddy's best approach significantly, the peanut will arch over pikmin and if you shield the banana you're going to get grabbed most likely. It's really good but it's a bit of a hail mary, if diddy does it he risked a lot and really wanted to force an opening.
Sh side b waveland to pick up straw bananas. Keeping the banana is really really key. Get comfortable with having it in and and using it to whiff punish jump ins because diddy loses a lot of potential to hit you if you just hold onto it. Think of using a banana in situation where you would pivot grab, you're punishing missed moves and landing lags with it . Oli isn't a fast enough character to throw it off stage and punish diddy from running and pulling a new one, so use it, or at least let it sit behind/under you with your stage positioning. Learn how to comfortably do your aerials with it a banana, z drop right before and you can do all of your aerials just 2 frames later.
It's also important to learn how to comfortably fsmash with a banana in hand: just be holding an attack button and then hit the c stick. You can press a during any thing. Like a pluck or a side b, this is really strong when edge guarding diddy because you can just fsmash without losing the banana or letting it time out.

I think it's 60/40 diddy's favor, mostly because diddy has more of an edge in neutral when he has a banana, and olimar can't really rush diddy down and prevent him from pulling.


It's a really fun MU, if you have a good diddy main in your region try to grind it out. Diddy and olimar mains are so few and far between, if you know the MU you can catch someone else off guard Oos or something. It's also a really similar MU for diddy to other ones, but I don't think it plays out like any other MU for olimar. Maybe wolf, I think wolf and diddy have similar game plans vs olimar.
Diddy olimar... is the competitive experience of watching paint dry. I would actually say oli has a slightly easier time approaching, but why should he. Diddy will essentially always have a banana at will on any normal stage, and olimar will be living longer than average, so any punish means it's going to be devastating.

If diddy gets the life lead, prepare to see a lot of air camping tricks, and a ton of peanutnpopgun. (So same thing)
If olimar gets the life lead, he has no reason to get more aggressive until at least bud are on pikmin, as long as his item game is on point and he doesn't stay a sitting duck. Honestly the only reason I would even say diddy favor is #1 no one plays this matchup (like melee zelda vs ice climbers) and #2 diddy isn't dependent on rnjesus. Both require setup for their optimal punishes so that isn't really a hold back unless you are starting with two reds Two blues early percent -.-

I will say once ground control is given up as olimar, it is really hard to get it back, not because of the rate of fire on popgun, but because the options out of the situation are really limited, and diddy punishes linear approaches pretty hard. Could see the matchup go either way, cause sdi needs to be on point for olimar not to treat you like a mr. Sandbag on combos.
Oli poops on Diddy if your item game is on point. If you pick up the banana and just side-b camp, Diddy can't do anything to you.

I'd explain more, but this is literally the entire matchup lmao
i think this is an amazing and even matchup. olimar's item game has to be on point but diddy has to be super careful of peel shenanigans.

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steelguttey

mei is bei
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
1,674
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Matchup Ratio: 5-5

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steelguttey

mei is bei
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
1,674
Character:

Stages: Final Destination, Smashville, avoid small stages.

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 88%

Matchup Ratio: 7-3

Tips:
Fair bowser. Dead. Space well, grab him. The combo can start at 0 and go to 50 and more. Nair is p good etc. Bowser is not going to win, if you space his neutral game and olimar's DD is good enough to do this.
Bowser is big and fat and slow. You can combo him to oblivion. Add to this, the fact that Olimar can keep Bowser down and out once he's offstage because he can edge guard him with D-Air.
VS Bowser, small stages are probably bad. Hits up-b and his ledge attack are really good so it's hard to take control.

You want to out maneuver Bowser. He's big so it's not hard to keep yourself from dropping the combo or landing the kill. His armor isn't much of a problem either as you shouldn't be carelessly approaching Bowser in the first place.

Good Stages: Preference (read below)

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 97%

Matchup Ratio:

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Falcon is another case of Olimar can combo him til killing percent. U-Smash and U-Air still juggles all day, and his techroll sucks so if you miss or you want him closer to the ground again, you can tech chase him fairly easy.

You won't be killing him with U-Smash too much though because he's heavy and a fast faller so he's fairly resistant to it. Instead you'll want to take him off the stage, pretty much with anything, and use F-Air or B-Air when he's recovering to keep him down. His recovery is both short ranged and predictable, so once he's knocked off he should lose a stock. If he didn't lose the stock with you at the advantage, it really is just a case of you messed up, no excuses.

On the other side of things though, Falcon is fast. His dash-dance is great, and he can punish whiffs from really far away, and he punishes them hard. You have to be patient and you have to make sure that you don't get baited by his dash-dancing or empty hops. If you get caught with a grab, you could take some heavy damage, and if the stage is smaller you could lose a stock early on.

Putting all of that together, and you've got what I'd call a fairly even matchup here. The trick to winning it is to not let Falcon play his game. If he's playing patient and a heavy baiter, you need to be more patient and you need to pay attention to when he's going to go in. If he's playing more aggressive, then you need to be prepared to throw out your F-Airs and stuff his approaches, and when you do stuff them you need to be ready to chase a tech if it's lower to the ground, or react to his next action if it's higher in the air.

Stage choice is hard for me to go into. On one hand you have larger stages which give Falcon a lot of room to move around, and avoid you, but larger stages usually have their blastzones farther from the stage. This is good for Olimar because he lives fairly long, and you might survives knees to higher percents and because he can gimp Falcon to keep him down. He doesn't really need the closer blastzones to kill.

However smaller stages allow Olimar to take up more space with his hitboxes, similar to Marth or Roy, and it limits Falcon's movement making it harder for him to avoid you. Of course the downside for Olimar in this situation is smaller stages tend to come with closer blastzones which means Falcon can kill him much sooner.
Falcon is free. The whole matchup is a contest to see who can get the other person into the air first and then combo based off of that. While Falcon does pretty well in the air, his fall speed makes him a perfect target for juggles from Oli. Olimar can pretty easily 0 to death Falcon while Falcon really doesn't have that easy of a time approaching Oli's disjoints. Up-smash/uair for days. Plus, if Falcon's playing safe (which I don't understand why a Falcon would do that ever), he doesn't really have anything to deal with Pikmin Throw. IMO one of the easiest matchups I've ever dealt with.

Good Stages: PS2, Smashville, Battlefield

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 79%

Matchup Ratio: 5-5

Tips:
So I ended up not being able to go to Exposure today due to irl stuff.

My step brother plays Charizard a little though and I know a little bit of info about the matchup, I just wanted to sit down with Metroid and discuss it with someone who would beat my *** with the character.

This matchup is better for both characters than either side will probably give credit for due to not actually experiencing it for themselves. All in all I do think it's a little more in Olimar's favor, but Charizard has some fairly good tools to use vs Olimar as well. A few notes about the winged lizard though:

He's fast on the ground, and his dash dance is really good for a large character.

His N-Air is amazing, especially when he's facing away from you. This move can start combos, end combos, get Star KOs, and can be used to keep other characters out. I'm sure most of you have seen the hitbox on the thing. It does come with some punishable endlag though. Respect this move, and punish it accordingly.

Charizard CAN combo Olimar back. Mostly vertically. His Jab sets up for so much, and his range lets him catch Olimar in mid air. It's not free though, the Charizard player has to follow your DI, but if he does, prepare to be U-Air > U-Air > Up-B'd.

Charizard's got more than Star KO power too. This D-Tilt, F-Tilt, B-Air and F-Smash are all good at taking Olimar off the stage, and this is one of a few matchups where you do not want to be offstage with the disadvantage. Charizard can keep you down if he performs correctly. His Flamethrowing also keeps Olimar from recovering low if it's fresh because it can stuff Olimar's tether.

Getting grabbed sucks, and to make matters worse Charizard has a good grab range. Coupled with his speed, he can punish Olimar's whiffs fairly well, and his D-Throw is good at techchasing anyone. To make matters worse though, Olimar has one of the worst techrolls in the game, and if Charizard catches you techrolling behind him while you have high damage he gets a free F-Smash which means you lose a stock because that move his super powerful. U-Throw is also a killer so don't get caught at high damage.

Charizard is a survivor. He's heavy and he can glide. You can stuff his Glide Attack if he uses it, but in my experience it's not easy to do. You have to hit with literally the bottom half of the Pikmin. If you can stuff his glide, and keep him off for his two jumps so he's out of range with his Up-B, then you should be okay. The hard part is stuffing the glide really.

Now that that's out of the way, the way to counter Charizard is don't miss anything, and pester him with Pikmin Throw. If you put a Pikmin on Charizard's nose he actually has very few ways of getting it off. It's also not very hard to do this. This is damage for you. After you get your first real hit with anything, you want to immediately put Charizard above you somehow. Throws, U-Smash, U-Tilt, whatever. Like most characters, Charizard can't challenge Olimar's U-Air.

You're going to need to put on as much damage as you can because as I said before, Charizard can survive against Olimar. That's basically it.

Space your attacks.
Pester him.
Don't miss.

Stages... I like medium sized ones after having played the matchup a little more than the last time I talked about this matchup. Small stages aren't bad for Charizard because he takes up so much space, much like Bowser. Large stages let him live longer. They make Olimar live longer too usually, but Charizard is actually strong enough for him to kill on larger stages with far off blastzones. Charizard can also do his Fly > U-Air > U-Air > Up-B chase combo on Dreamland and still kill that way.

I actually prefer stages like PS2, Smashville, Battlefield. I don't even mind Final Destination in this match too much because it takes away the platforms Charizard could use to mix up his glide recovery with. Also Lylat Cruise again because those ledges are great for screwing over Charizard's recovery as a whole.

Good Stages:

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 82%

Matchup Ratio:

Tips:
I played DLA in tournament just this Wednesday. I was impressed with myself, taking him down to last stock our first game and down to two stocks the second match.

DLA thinks that the matchup is heavily in Diddy's favor, but I disagree. I can't even call a matchup rating on it, sometimes it felt even, sometimes it felt like Olimar was better and sometimes it felt like Diddy was better. Really it came down to, how successful can I be at using his bananas against him. Thanks to coming from maining Y.Link in Melee and starting out with T.Link in PM, turns out I can do it fairly well.

I've really been thinking about this matchup a lot though, and I'd love to hear other people's input on it.
me said:
the matchup is slightly in diddy's favor. thats only because olimar's glide toss and agt are both so bad. the key to playing against a good diddy is using his nanners against you and NOT GETTING OFF STAGE. seriously the whole matchup is basically who gets off stage first loses a stock. upsmash combos wont do much due to him being a psuedo-fast faller from what i've seen. so after 2 usmashes you should start going for uairs. anyway, stages are normal, yoshi story, battlefield etc. try to out move him and just stay mobile and watch out for bananas at the same time. purple side-b is a blessing in this matchup, it shuts down all of his shenanigans if timed right. 5.5-4.5 in his favor.

Good Stages: high ceiling

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 93%

Matchup Ratio:4.5-5.5 in DK's favor


Tips:

I'm bored, so why not help out some olimar players cause I'm tired of hearing them complain about this matchup LOL
I'm not gonna take the time to make this grammatically correct or perfectly clear, so my apologies

Olimar can combo DK as well as DK can combo any character in the game, so mastering combo game is the first step. That way, neither character has an advantage in the punish game department. Tbh, I picked up Olimar for about a week a looong time ago and the first thing i do wtih any character I pick up is experiment with their combo possibilities on a level 1 computer(cause they actually DI occasionally lol) Olimar does some brutal things to DK. Some things that come to mind, while most of you may know but I rarely see olimars do most of these things which is why I bring it up, are down throw chain grabs, down throw to up smash(up smash can combo into itself 2-3 times at low %) then once up smash sends him too high, do up air juggles or nair juggles. and end it with a powerful hit that sends at a low angle like fair. Try to get that fair with a strong pikmin. For example, if you have a white pikmin then a yellow one, do one more up air then use the yellow for the fair. He has bad vertical recovery so low angle moves really limit his options.

Mastering oos game also helps a lot, cause olimar has great oos game and has many options with his low short hop (nair oos, bair, fair, purple pikmin up smash when going for the kill or just any other up smash to start a combo, and of course grab). Being a DK player, I like to abuse opponent's poor oos game(it's pretty easy to notice how good a player's oos game is when playing them) by doing nairs and fairs on shield and then jab because the shield stun throws a lot of people off. If DK does a nair or fair on your shield(except a well spaced fair), that can lead to a free, brutal, combo/juggle out of nair, grab, or up smash. That brutal combo will then lead to an edgeguard situation which I will talk about next.

When edgeguarding him, don't stand around on stage and try to wait to see what DK does. Doing this just makes your brain go back and forth between decisions and will get you overwhelmed make you want to shoot someone when he sneaks his way back every time. When you see him recover with up b, just jump out and make a decision whether it's fair or dair or whatever, just jump out there and do it. Your vertical recovery is better than his so it's impossible for him to be recovering in a way that will prevent you from getting back if you hit him. Even if you get hit, it's a weak hitbox and unless you jump into it and lose your jump, you will get back just fine.


Also, recover low since DK can't go down too far and make it back safely. Use the range on that up b and delay your rise up until you see an opening
DK Vs Olimar

DK is able to Trample over Olimar.
His Nair is a fantastic approach since his arms beat out the Purple Pikmin Toss.
Use a well spaced Fair for when he's holding the edge.
He has options when Olimar is returning Mid to Low. If Mid, a dash attack off the edge can put him out of reach of the edge. A Nair or Bair will also safely do the trick.
Jumping Cargo Throw off the edge followed by a Fair can net some early kills and has a high hit rate. If you ever grab and are able to do this, you should. DK is very safe here. Don't be afraid to go out far. Just stay high and you'll be fine.
Jab. Whenever Olimar is close, Jab. You can do a 2 hit into a grab even if he blocks. He's able to grab after your second Jab but it's good to switch up the number of Jab's you do.
If Olimar is out of DK's Jab range, Olimar can get a Grab in. To counter this, Dtilt. A Fair will also do the trick often if you read the grab attempt.
Fair L-Canceled into Jab - Grab is incredible as an approach as long as he blocks. If he doesn't block, he most likely will eat the Fair.
Toss out Bairs as pressure. You don't need to hit him but it will most likely force him to do something, which opens you up for an opportunity for a grab. This is best used when he recovers from the ledge.

^ Copy Paste from the DK thread.

The counter play to this is generally to have a good DD game. If you can DD and get a grab on you can rack up some damage but will likely have a hard time killing him without a Purple hit or a Blue throw when he's over 150% (Depending on the stage)
DK has a Jab that is really good. If he gets you, you can try and DI up and away but chances are, your going to eat a Nair, or if your at lower percents, you'll get grabbed.
If you get grabbed near the edge and put into a Cargo Hold, then he jumps off and tosses you, you basically have to change up your DI. It's kind of a Rock Paper Scissors thing but he's more likely to win. Theres no Safe DI direction on this one.
One of the main tactics you should strive for is getting more Purples. If you can get 3, then you can put on enough constant pressure that you can take the upper hand. I personally recommend haveing only 3 Purples and no others in this matchup, as having 1 that doesn't give knockback can cost you the stock since your probably high in % anyways. Note that this can be very difficult to achieve since an aggressive DK can be hard to deal with.
Grizzle is actually right. A good DK is hard for any character to deal with, he's possibly the best big body in the game.

He's quick, has great range on all of his attacks coupled with great priority on top of the range. He absolutely does not care about Pikmin Throw from anything other than Purple, and sometimes he can out prioritize that too.

He's heavy so he lives long. His Up-B travels very far and keeps his sides mostly safe. His grab has awesome range and he has great and versatile throws and yes the cargo > F-Air combo is very dangerous against anybody.

If you want to win this matchup you have to space well and not throw attacks out willy nilly. This is another case of never ever mess up.

The game plan is simple but difficult to pull off.

Big stages are key. You're not killing DK off the top anyway. Give yourself space to move around and large blastzones to survive. Recover low, its more dangerous for DK to edgeguard you because he doesn't get much vertical distance for his recovery.

Also you need to edgeguard the same way you would Bowser. D-Air his Up-B. Reach for it if you can, the sooner you smack him down the sooner you can get back on stage and be ready to do it again because you're probably going to need to do it twice.

Good Stages: dreamland, battlefield, yoshi story

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 91%

Matchup Ratio:6-4 in falco's favor

Tips:
As for the Falco matchup though, I can't really say much because I don't play a lot of Falco players in the MW.

All I know is you want a stage with platforms to help avoid lasers. You also want the stage to be large (like Dreamland) because Falco can't recover but you can.

You can 0-Death him once you come in contact with him.

Olimar is hard to pillar, or so says some of the Falco players I have played, but they might just not be very good compared to others.

Hello guys! New to Olimar board though I've been playing him since brawl, and in PM since he was released. I have experience in the Falco matchup because my scene has many oldschool melee players who just use their spacies in PM.

Falco can be up-throw or down-throw chaingrabbed at low percents obviously. Your opponent can DI the throws so that they land behind you, and this can be a pain to deal with because Olimar's grab can whiff at point blank range. You can remedy this by simply doing pivot grabs. You want to land a grab or chaingrab into a blue pikmin grab, because blue up-throw has enough knockback to start a combo on fast fallers, even at 0%. Easiest and most reliable combo after up-throw is up-smash, (maybe 1 or 2 more up smashes) up-air, double jump forward air. You can use the tip of up-air (sour-spot) in a juggle to bring Falco back to the ground to combo into up smash again.

Always try to end your combos with f-air and not u-air, because u-air won't kill anyways, but f-air will likely put Falco offstage. When he is off-stage, do the tether character ledgehog, forcing him to land on stage. Punish with a ledgejump down-air, which will spike him into the ground and combo into anything. And the reason I am going into such detail for combos and punishes? Well Falco, just like Fox, dominates the neutral game so hard, that optimizing your punishes when you do manage to hit him really is the key to this matchup. In a 4-stock match, it is not uncommon for me to get 1 zero-to-death on Falco off of a grab. Just grab, blue up-throw, up-smash, juggle a bit til you can land a f-air which puts him off stage, and edgeguard. One trick I like to do to Falco when he is offstage is run towards the ledge but then wave dash backwards. This will bait Falco into using side-B on stage because he thinks you are going for the ledge. When you read his side-b onto stage punish it with down smash. If you know or think Falco is going to offstage firebird to get back, then do a decisive run-off-stage f-air before the up-b activates (Easy to do because unlike Fox, Falco's up-b has no hitbox while charging, and it has a smaller distance).

Purple Pikmin: acquiring 2 of these bad boys will make this matchup MUCH easier, if you are so lucky. Lasers knock back pikmin when thrown, but when you throw 2 pikmin in a row, the 2nd one will make it through. (This applies to Fox as well) You can use 2 subsequent purple tosses (preferably after a hop) to lock down falco and get a free in on him.

When Falco is in on you, your best OoS options are just roll away, or N-air. Assuming the Falco plays perfectly, you'll never shield grab him. If you want to go for a shield grab, be my guest, as the reward for landing a grab is tremendous.

If Falco is laser camping, don't be afraid to spend some time to camp yourself and get a better pikmin lineup (this is what I do). His lasers don't do much damage at all, so spend some time to throw pikmin you don't want offstage. In this matchup, you want Purples, Blues (up-throw can start combos at low percents, and back/forward throw easily gets him offstage), and yellows (immune to lasers, shine won't get them off when latched on either). White pikmin deserve a special note, because their up-throw will easily combo into a forward air at high percents, and purple pikmin are ordered after whites, so landing a white grab at around 80% or higher will usually result in a kill.

For neutral: Stay mobile. Get good at powershielding lasers. When you have a purple, short hop toss it and go for a safe approach. When you have a yellow pikmin, throw it from the ground, run forward, and space yourself to grab falco's landing (he will expect to be safe from the short hop laser but the yellow will have absorbed it).

I feel like I could write much more, but this is already approaching TLDR territory and beyond. If some of this is obvious I apologize.
I don't know that much about this matchup so I'm willing to say that Olimar is able to wreck Falco, however... if your fighting against a Falco that knows how to use lazers, your boned. Olimar doesn't have the speed to defend himself from a lazer rush. In a sense, it's like Marios fireballs only they are faster and can potentially punish harder.

I agree with BW, in that you want a larger stage with platforms. In general, I think Olimar does better ion larger stages, as it gives him time for his pikmin to grow as well as play in some DD games.

Good Stages: doesnt matter just pick what youre good at this matchup sucks anyway lol

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 84%

Matchup Ratio: 7.5-2.5

Tips:

Fox? Pick a different character cuz this matchup is awful.

Fox is faster and hits Olimar pretty hard. Shine removes Pikmin safely (something I failed to mention vs Falco), and his laser camping ability let's him do constant damage while running circles around Olimar.

Big stages are a no go because Fox can run around, small stages are bad because of how much faster Fox can kill Olimar and medium stages arent advantageous in any way either.

This matchup really is just terrible.
I also feel that this matchup is unwinnable, despite that Olimar can 0-death him from a grab or up smash.

Lasers knock back pikmin side-B toss and we all know Fox shoots them very fast. Fox can and will outcamp us. Olimar is rather floaty whereas Fox has good combos on floatys and up-smash/up-air. He's too fast and very difficult to grab. Lastly, shinespike is terrifying for Olimar. I'll write on how to actually win this matchup later though
Saw this post in the Fox boards, I'll contribute, but what I have to say might be rubbish because I'm fairly inexperienced.

I must suck at this matchup then, because I play a good Olimar regularly and have reasonable trouble (but I usually win, minus bad matches of tech errors) in the match.

Olimar wombos us pretty hard and like 1 grab is instant death pretty much. Fox is hard to grab though.

We outcamp you because our lasers stop your Pikmin and we have no lag and move much faster than you. We also have a reflector for your pikmin, so we force you to approach. Olimar's options for approaching seem limited here too.

Approaching, perfect spaced Fairs outrange our OoS Usmash as well as of course our grabs. Your far superior range and ridiculous tilt combos hurt us once we get hit, and we pretty much die everytime if you get a grab. I also think basically every move you have beats our options in the air, except maybe our Bair.

Olimar is kind of clunky for Fox to combo. I find that Oli's aerial pluck can help him escape Uthrow>Uair at mid-high percents and the shine knocks him down, so we can't combo out of it. We do approach and pressure you far better than you do us, with our shine shield pressure and extremely fast Nair and dash speed. The shine also helps reset into neutral where we force you into approaching.

Off stage we die instantly, a single one of any of your aerials save Uair (and whites) will kill us as low as like 50% I'm pretty sure. But I find it really bloody hard to shine spike Olimar, might just be me though.

I don't really see this match being worse than 65:35 Fox's favour. I don't contribute much in matchup discussion though, so I don't think my opinion holds a whole lot of value here.
I concur with everyone else in the statement that this match-up is absolutely horrible for Olimar. Olimar relies on his mid screen/camping game in order to force a mistake onto the opponent and create an opening. In exchange for his strong camping game he has a pretty mediocre approach without a purple due to his fairly poor mobility and relatively unsafe approach options.

However Fox, a character with a much much stronger approach and pressure game can outcamp this character due to lasers stopping Pikmin. It's honestly kind of stupid. This forces you to try to approach but as aforementioned Olimar's approach isn't very good. Fox's neutral game is so much stronger than Olimar's he really struggles to get much going. Then there's also the fact that Fox can combo Olimar pretty well and can seal easy gimps with a shine spike if he forces him off stage.

If you can however successfully space a grab or an attack that allows you to lead into a grab you can 0 to death him with relative ease. Fox is also easy to gimp, particularly if you have reds as they beat his Up B completely. The issue is of course getting the grab in this first place.

I'd probably rank this as one of Olimar's worst match-ups if not his absolute worst. Definitely worth opting for a different character if you have one. Though I don't think it's unwinnable, it's a very difficult battle to win.
I honestly don't know. Olimar can seal his fate in one combo, however landing a good hit on Fox can be nearly impossible unless Fox messes up. Assuming you are fighting an amazing Fox who won't mess up, I think it is 7-3 Fox favor. Never been big on matchup numbers though I just prefer writing how to do the matchup.

Btw, in my experience the best way to get in as Olimar in this matchup is to read his jump and run under up-smash. This will likely combo into one or two more up-smashes, then f-air him and edgeguard. When he is at low percent, you want to grab him with a blue pikmin (blue up throw sends him high enough to start a combo at even 0%), or chaingrab with up-throw or downthrow into a blue pikmin. The easiest and most reliable thing to hit him with to start a 0-death are a blue up-throw, or a non-white up smash.

Good Stages: ??? (preference i would guess)

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 63%

Matchup Ratio: 5-5


Tips:
Being a character that racks up damage really quickly, Oli can kill G&W really easily. However, G&W's down-tilt makes it really hard to get in with grabs, and bacon can snuff out Pikmin Throw pretty easily. Honestly, it looks 50/50 to me, but I'm not really sure. G&W's ground game is way better than Olimar's, but Olimar's ground game isn't really that great to begin with so it doesn't matter.
I have a really hard time against Olimar as GnW, I would put the MU in his favor.

GnW gets comboed and sies obscenely early from purple and fire pikmin.

Good Stages:

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 85%

Matchup Ratio: 4-6

Tips:
oh god Ganon

This matchup is actually hard for me because it makes me think about the game instead of doing braindead grab combos lol

Ganon can be combo'd into oblivion, but as it is with most characters fighting Ganon, any hit will rack up a bunch of damage. Pretty sure his fair outranges Oli's everything (except side-b), too.

The juggles are real though. Ganon's got stomps, but he's combo-food.
Ganondorf is actually easy though. He's slow, has bad recovery, and is combo fodder for Olimar.

Hit him off stage and his stock is gone. He's just a slow Captain Falcon after all.
Yeah, you have to respect him still. He is strong, and you will get bopped if you're careless.

If you're sort of far away from him, he literally has like 3 options to approach you. Dash-Attack, Down-B, and SH > F-Air. All of which are fairly easy to see coming. Olimar can stuff two of these, and the other one is so easy to see coming, you can just get out of the way and punish him.
If he forces you offstage be careful of his late UAir hitbox that semi spikes you. I'd recommend keeping your distance, forcing him to approach and stuffing him. From there he is combo fodder and if you force him offstage a well spaced FAir or BAir should finish him.

Additionally (correct me if I'm wrong) but aren't White Pikmin immune to darkness/poison damage? If that's the case that's pretty hilarious. Might be me going insane though.

Good Stages: Yoshi's Island Melee, Halbred, BF and Skyloft.

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 67%

Matchup Ratio: ?-? (nobody plays these characters lol

Tips:
I have never played Ics vs Olimar that much but i can try so here we go.

Olimar really likes to use/throw hes pikim right, i think the right thing to do is to blizzard/iceblock desynch camp or ftilt to stop them annoying pikims. After he runs out of pikim go after with Jab to grab, Desynch blizzard, (Both ics) Nair or nice space fairs for aerials i like that alot. He shouldnt go for grabs since theirs two of them and he might get smash attack. If he goes for aerials try to dash attack and wavedash under him then Upair or Uptilt Spamming. Avoid platforms because of Upair and also you should go for alot of grabs since Olimar spotdodge isnt that good and if he rolls you can just dsmash punish, Hes wavedash isnt that good either. Hes light so i could kill him with a grab combo like dthrow + upsmash, upthrow + bair, or upthrow + fair. The stage i would avoid is fod and dl. Best stages Yoshi, Halbred, BF, and Skyloft lol
You guys can add your input as well :popo:
I don't know a lot about this matchup.

But I do know that Olimar's N-Air is pretty much a free ICs separator. SHFFL N-Air is very effective against ICs.

Other than that this is kind of a bait and punish thing. And get Purple. Purple goes through everything, like always.

Also Olimar's spotdodge is good. His roll is not though.

Good Stages: medium stages (ps2, yoshis story brawl norfair)

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 83%

Matchup Ratio: 3-7

Tips:

I would jsay the Ike MU is almost unwinnable. His range and disjoints can knock aside the Pikmin you throw and he can kill you at like 15%! Ike murders floaties and Olimar especially is almost free and soooo easy to combo. Quick Draw lets him follow you if you try to rjun away so forget about managing Pikmin. The only reason I say almost unwinnable is because Ike's attacks are slow so you can punish sometimes. If you somehow get a juggle, he can get out pretty easy with a nair orwhatever which is why Battlefield type stage woould be a lil better but you still trade. Yoshi's Story would let Ike finish your5 stocks in 10 secs and Dreamland would let Ike always be in hitstun so Battlefield and PS2 are your second best bet aside from swi4ching. jsmwmzkmao derp I don car aboot wammar lol
IMO, this is his fourth worst matchup. (Order being Marth, Roy, Fox, Ike. My personal feelings).

His attacks are fast enough and reach far enough to keep Olimar out with good spacing, and his QD keeps his combos going. Ike is also pretty good at edge guarding in general because F-Air and B-Air are insanely strong, and he can go really low and still make it back. If you're ever tethering the stage he literally only has to drop off the stage and N-Air and it covers everything, including waiting so he whiffs, so long as he times it right, and the timing isn't strict.

Olimar has some pretty good combos on Ike though, and your pivot grab is pretty effective against his QD stuff, either making him jump earlier or catching him if he doesn't. Ike also isn't free of holes on stage, his worst trait is his neutral game. Try to bait Ike into attacking because most everything he has is easily punishable.

Pikmin Throw is nice in this matchup because if Ike attacks to get Pikmin off of him then he puts himself at a disadvantage. Also if you have Purple then praise R.N. Jesus because Purple really helps in the neutral game because it's a real projectile.
The Ike match-up is hard, but it is by no means unwinnable. Fox and Marth match-ups are definitely worse (I'd honestly put this match-up at 55-45 for Ike, 60-40 at absolute worst). I play quite a bit against a very solid Ike in our region and at first I struggled a lot with the match-up but that's because I approached it incorrectly at first. He has the largest sword in the game, so his disjoints are overall massive and completely dominate yours. He can easily outspace you when you're within a certain range, and his immense power means he can kill you very early.

This match-up needs to be played quite defensively and campy as Ike's neutral game isn't great. Try to force the approach from him as he only really has two notable approach options (though his main one breaks into multiple other options). If he tries to dash attack, shield on reaction and punish. If you see him trying to do anything QD related, opt for a pivot grab or if he's jumped and is above you go for a USmash and begin juggling him. As B.W. said Side B is very good in this match-up as it's your main tool to force the approach. If you can get right on him then you can start applying pressure as Ike's defensive game isn't great (though be wary of NAir oos).
Also I forgot to mention stages.

You want medium stages. Choosing anything small let's Ike absolutely smother you with N-Air, B-Air and F-Tilt, but choosing anything big lets him survive longer, which is bad because Ike can kill you easy on any stage thanks to his amazing kill power. And he's also amazing at edgeguarding, as previously stated.

Medium stages let you have enough space against Ike to see what QD shenanigans might be happening, and the walls aren't too far out so your combos have a better chance of killing Ike outright, rather than having to edgeguard him, which can be difficult to do.

Good Stages: Lylat, PS2, Battlefield

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 66%

Matchup Ratio: 4-6

Tips:

I think that olimar vs ivy is bad for olimar but not that bad, he gets juggled really hard by every character but with ivy one grab could lead to an easy follow up up-b for the kill

Avoiding this takes some practice you got to avoid RAZOR LEAF if you don't you are going to die the best options would be either jumping over it or power shield but if you do that then you must make sure you power shield and not just regular shield or you are very vulnerable DO NOT throw pikmin at ivy for camping they get blown away by her neutral b then die forcing you to start the blooming process with no one has time for.

Mainly just wait for him to mess up then pivot grab yours should out range her regular grab and once she's above you in the this becomes a better mu you should either u-smash or u-air to put on some good percent
About ivy she can just neutral b all Pikmin away anyways I don't know why they have a wind box on ivy's attack
It's incredibly stupid
But they gave her one but it is what it is
I lost to Mach last tourney but hopefully I can learn a move to cancel rl
Because sadly i find it hard to beat
You can't shield it because it stuns enough for ivy to pressure with nair or simply grab
So that's something else about the ivy match up
Oh yeah, neutral-B is silly.

Ivysaur matchup can be pretty hard. Ivysaur out ranges Olimar from the front and the back. Not when she's above Olimar though.

In neutral you have to be patient and you have to react quickly. Olimar has the lucky advantage of being small which let's you get around F-Air and her projectiles. Wavedash OoS is your best friend. Once you get in you can combo Ivysaur to stupid amounts of damage. She's also fairly floaty so she gets star KO'd pretty easily.

Stages are kind of personal preference. I prefer medium stages because I have room to breathe and but I'm also able to kill Ivysaur at a reasonable amount of damage.

I still like Lylat.

Also on the topic of throwing Pikmin. I don't think it's something you should never do. True she can U-Air, D-Air, or U-Smash them for healing and charge, but those three attacks are some of her most punishable. You can get big damage on Ivy should she choose to use those moves.
Re: Ivysaur. As Olimar, you should remember one HUGE rule:

Do not.

Throw.

The Pikmin.

When a Pikmin is attached to Ivysaur, it's a free SB charge. Usmash, uair, and dair will almost always hit an attached Pikmin, granting her some healing and getting her closer to Solar Beam (I'm not exactly sure why it isn't 'always...' seems like there might be some weirdness in where they attach that might make it not work every time. This is one of the reasons I'm anxious for debug mode so I can figure out what's going on). RL also stops incoming Pikmin. The exception to both of these of course is purple Pikmin. You're probably better off throwing away until purple comes up.

On the upside, Olimar's smashes appear to beat out Ivysaur's. I'm hesitant to say more, however, because Olimar overall is a weakness of mine no matter who I'm using, so I think any further input from me is going to be biased in Olimar's favor.

Good Stages: ???

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 50%

Matchup Ratio: ?-?

Tips:
If Jigglypuff misses a rest, you can kill her at 26% with a fully charged purple flowered usmash

Jiggs seems surprisingly difficult. It might just be a personal thing, but I rely on grab combos and Olimar's grab game. Jiggs is really hard to do follow-ups on, and Jiggs's aerials seem to beat out Olimar's. Maybe I'm just playing the matchup wrong. I think it's even, if not, I'm playing the matchup horribly wrong.

So time for something completely different

**** G&W and that **** matchup. What do I do? Should I do anything in particular against G&W? I can't juggle because of the key, the stupid manhole cover beats out my grabs, bacon beats out Pikmin Throw, and his weight is really hard to combo. HELP. ;_;

Good Stages: preference (dont give d3 dreamland 64 pls)

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 89%

Matchup Ratio: 5.5-4.5

Tips:
Finally a character I main! Dedede can gimp and kill Olimar earlier than 5 am, and even though he's a big target, he can remove latched pikmin with nair. He's big and fat so comboing to over 100% probably will be a thing and I think he can swat away thrown pikmin with his waddles and f tilt but don't quote me that lol. I guess his hammer is kinda like a big sword and you keep mentioning he has trouble against characters with big swords so connect the dots. A smart D3 will space aerials and waddles and tilts so he can't be combo'd or pressured. I'm calling (slight) disadvantage for Olibabies. Seriously, bair, fair, up tilt, and down smash kill Olibabies so early. D3 has a crazy recovery and weight so killing will be hard. I know Ripple and Hungrybox played this same MU so you can watch that video for the first game before Hbox counterpicks with Puff, a badish D3 MU.
I can only theory craft but I wouldn't think that its in olimars favor. My best guess would be close to even or a slight advantage us. Olimar's keep away game seems efficient against DDD but not overwhelming.
I personally find this match up to be in Olimar's favour. Waddles may trade with Pikmin but Pikmin can be thrown much faster than Waddles and put DDD under a lot more pressure. Then is the fact that like the other big bodies like Bowser and DK, DDD can be comboed and chain grabbed to oblivion. Unlike those two however DDD doesn't have the defensive options to relieve your pressure. Your main concern of course is being offstage. DDD has one of the strongest off stage games in the game and can very easily edgeguard you. Centre stage is your best friend.
I'M SO CONFLICTED

I still think it's in D3's favor. Despite Silentdoom's comment, it's really hard to apply pressure to D3. I mean, his nair just swats Pikmin off, he can shield pressure, and his offstage game is great.

I'm just going to assume that the only advantage Oli has, as he has with most matchups, is juggles.

...which in hindsight are actually hard to pull off against D3's dair.

****.
I never said he struggled. I said he manages. DDD's aerial to ground game is one of the best in the game. he doesn't have to be right above you, he can be above your upsmash height and put on pressure. olimar isn't fast enough to run all the way under DDD everytime and get away with that either. I will get a grab or hit more often than you do. I'm not denying olimar can combo me for a lot of damage, but I will win more interactions between us.
 
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steelguttey

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Alright guys! This thread is up and rarin to go! So I've decided that we're gonna go in alphabetical order.

SO first week is Bowser!
 

B.W.

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Bowser is big and fat and slow. You can combo him to oblivion. Add to this, the fact that Olimar can keep Bowser down and out once he's offstage because he can edge guard him with D-Air.

If this was pre-nerfed Bowser it wouldn't be so free, but Bowser is kind of a bad character now.
 
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Hevy_Santana

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But doesnt bowser have invisibility how does an olimar deal with that consistently especially with a not so ideal pikmin line up?
what would be olimars best options for edge guarding a bowser ? And then what are the best stages I should take a bowser to ?
 

steelguttey

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But doesnt bowser have invisibility how does an olimar deal with that consistently especially with a not so ideal pikmin line up?
what would be olimars best options for edge guarding a bowser ? And then what are the best stages I should take a bowser to ?
generally yoshi's story = best stage against heavies as oli cause of low ceilings and abusable platforms
 

B.W.

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VS Bowser, small stages are probably bad. Hits up-b and his ledge attack are really good so it's hard to take control.

You want to out maneuver Bowser. He's big so it's not hard to keep yourself from dropping the combo or landing the kill. His armor isn't much of a problem either as you shouldn't be carelessly approaching Bowser in the first place.
 

steelguttey

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Oh, I forgot to mention. Every Thursday the cycle will switch. (i chose thursday cause im never busy then it may seem random but ya)
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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Fair bowser. Dead. Space well, grab him. The combo can start at 0 and go to 50 and more. Nair is p good etc. Bowser is not going to win, if you space his neutral game and olimar's DD is good enough to do this.

Oh
Small stages are bad agaisnt a good bowser. Do not do that crap.
 
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steelguttey

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Alright guys, this is the end of the week. Here is the sum-up I made.

Character:

Stages: Final Destination, Smashville, avoid small stages.

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 88%

Matchup Ratio: 7-3

Tips:
Fair bowser. Dead. Space well, grab him. The combo can start at 0 and go to 50 and more. Nair is p good etc. Bowser is not going to win, if you space his neutral game and olimar's DD is good enough to do this.
Bowser is big and fat and slow. You can combo him to oblivion. Add to this, the fact that Olimar can keep Bowser down and out once he's offstage because he can edge guard him with D-Air.
VS Bowser, small stages are probably bad. Hits up-b and his ledge attack are really good so it's hard to take control.

You want to out maneuver Bowser. He's big so it's not hard to keep yourself from dropping the combo or landing the kill. His armor isn't much of a problem either as you shouldn't be carelessly approaching Bowser in the first place.

This matchup is: Captain Falcon!
 

B.W.

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Falcon is another case of Olimar can combo him til killing percent. U-Smash and U-Air still juggles all day, and his techroll sucks so if you miss or you want him closer to the ground again, you can tech chase him fairly easy.

You won't be killing him with U-Smash too much though because he's heavy and a fast faller so he's fairly resistant to it. Instead you'll want to take him off the stage, pretty much with anything, and use F-Air or B-Air when he's recovering to keep him down. His recovery is both short ranged and predictable, so once he's knocked off he should lose a stock. If he didn't lose the stock with you at the advantage, it really is just a case of you messed up, no excuses.

On the other side of things though, Falcon is fast. His dash-dance is great, and he can punish whiffs from really far away, and he punishes them hard. You have to be patient and you have to make sure that you don't get baited by his dash-dancing or empty hops. If you get caught with a grab, you could take some heavy damage, and if the stage is smaller you could lose a stock early on.

Putting all of that together, and you've got what I'd call a fairly even matchup here. The trick to winning it is to not let Falcon play his game. If he's playing patient and a heavy baiter, you need to be more patient and you need to pay attention to when he's going to go in. If he's playing more aggressive, then you need to be prepared to throw out your F-Airs and stuff his approaches, and when you do stuff them you need to be ready to chase a tech if it's lower to the ground, or react to his next action if it's higher in the air.

Stage choice is hard for me to go into. On one hand you have larger stages which give Falcon a lot of room to move around, and avoid you, but larger stages usually have their blastzones farther from the stage. This is good for Olimar because he lives fairly long, and you might survives knees to higher percents and because he can gimp Falcon to keep him down. He doesn't really need the closer blastzones to kill.

However smaller stages allow Olimar to take up more space with his hitboxes, similar to Marth or Roy, and it limits Falcon's movement making it harder for him to avoid you. Of course the downside for Olimar in this situation is smaller stages tend to come with closer blastzones which means Falcon can kill him much sooner.
 

TheKmanOfSmash

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Man, I'd love to contribute to this MU discussion, but I haven't played many Olimars to have a good understanding of it. All I know is that Oli is combo food when he get grabbed and juggled in the air lol
 

B.W.

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Actually, Olimar can get out of Falcon's combos easier than a lot of other characters because he's small and a little floaty.
 

robosteven

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Falcon is free. The whole matchup is a contest to see who can get the other person into the air first and then combo based off of that. While Falcon does pretty well in the air, his fall speed makes him a perfect target for juggles from Oli. Olimar can pretty easily 0 to death Falcon while Falcon really doesn't have that easy of a time approaching Oli's disjoints. Up-smash/uair for days. Plus, if Falcon's playing safe (which I don't understand why a Falcon would do that ever), he doesn't really have anything to deal with Pikmin Throw. IMO one of the easiest matchups I've ever dealt with.
 
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B.W.

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Patient Falcons are actually the scarier ones IMO. Falcon doesn't have a while lot in the ways of shield pressure but a patient Falcon that's always moving and baiting can be difficult to deal with because he's not often in danger of punishment.
 

steelguttey

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yea the thing about c.falcon is that he has a ridiculously good dash-dance game. he can bait you and wait for you to approach and then nair you can get off a combo that will last a while IF you werent floaty like olimar.
 

Toxicroaker

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I know that @ robosteven robosteven had a discussion about Charizard in the Charizard MU thread. Would you care to come back over here and share what you said?
 

LavaLatte

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The problem with discussing the Charizard vs. Olimar matchup is that there's so few mains of either character that nobody [that I know of] has experienced it on a high level. But I really wanna hear what people have to say. =D

Charizard boards say hi. Please take care of us. :006:
 

steelguttey

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in the skype group they talked about it

basically if charizard goes above olimar hes ****ed

olimars should ban fd, smashville and ps2
 

B.W.

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If Metroid is at EXP tomorrow I'll ask him for friendlies and get a more hands on feel for the matchup.
 

robosteven

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Based on what I've seen here, B.W. really ought to represent PM Olimar as a whole. The dude knows his stuff.
 

B.W.

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So I ended up not being able to go to Exposure today due to irl stuff.

My step brother plays Charizard a little though and I know a little bit of info about the matchup, I just wanted to sit down with Metroid and discuss it with someone who would beat my ass with the character.

This matchup is better for both characters than either side will probably give credit for due to not actually experiencing it for themselves. All in all I do think it's a little more in Olimar's favor, but Charizard has some fairly good tools to use vs Olimar as well. A few notes about the winged lizard though:

He's fast on the ground, and his dash dance is really good for a large character.

His N-Air is amazing, especially when he's facing away from you. This move can start combos, end combos, get Star KOs, and can be used to keep other characters out. I'm sure most of you have seen the hitbox on the thing. It does come with some punishable endlag though. Respect this move, and punish it accordingly.

Charizard CAN combo Olimar back. Mostly vertically. His Jab sets up for so much, and his range lets him catch Olimar in mid air. It's not free though, the Charizard player has to follow your DI, but if he does, prepare to be U-Air > U-Air > Up-B'd.

Charizard's got more than Star KO power too. This D-Tilt, F-Tilt, B-Air and F-Smash are all good at taking Olimar off the stage, and this is one of a few matchups where you do not want to be offstage with the disadvantage. Charizard can keep you down if he performs correctly. His Flamethrowing also keeps Olimar from recovering low if it's fresh because it can stuff Olimar's tether.

Getting grabbed sucks, and to make matters worse Charizard has a good grab range. Coupled with his speed, he can punish Olimar's whiffs fairly well, and his D-Throw is good at techchasing anyone. To make matters worse though, Olimar has one of the worst techrolls in the game, and if Charizard catches you techrolling behind him while you have high damage he gets a free F-Smash which means you lose a stock because that move his super powerful. U-Throw is also a killer so don't get caught at high damage.

Charizard is a survivor. He's heavy and he can glide. You can stuff his Glide Attack if he uses it, but in my experience it's not easy to do. You have to hit with literally the bottom half of the Pikmin. If you can stuff his glide, and keep him off for his two jumps so he's out of range with his Up-B, then you should be okay. The hard part is stuffing the glide really.

Now that that's out of the way, the way to counter Charizard is don't miss anything, and pester him with Pikmin Throw. If you put a Pikmin on Charizard's nose he actually has very few ways of getting it off. It's also not very hard to do this. This is damage for you. After you get your first real hit with anything, you want to immediately put Charizard above you somehow. Throws, U-Smash, U-Tilt, whatever. Like most characters, Charizard can't challenge Olimar's U-Air.

You're going to need to put on as much damage as you can because as I said before, Charizard can survive against Olimar. That's basically it.

Space your attacks.
Pester him.
Don't miss.

Stages... I like medium sized ones after having played the matchup a little more than the last time I talked about this matchup. Small stages aren't bad for Charizard because he takes up so much space, much like Bowser. Large stages let him live longer. They make Olimar live longer too usually, but Charizard is actually strong enough for him to kill on larger stages with far off blastzones. Charizard can also do his Fly > U-Air > U-Air > Up-B chase combo on Dreamland and still kill that way.

I actually prefer stages like PS2, Smashville, Battlefield. I don't even mind Final Destination in this match too much because it takes away the platforms Charizard could use to mix up his glide recovery with. Also Lylat Cruise again because those ledges are great for screwing over Charizard's recovery as a whole.
 

steelguttey

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Hey guys! Yea. Late. I know. Anyway, thats the end of the week! B.W. got this HUUUUGGEEEE post out that basically added in everything i need. Nobody plays charizard OR olimar, so this week wouldve sucked. a round of applause.

Anyway, here.

Good Stages: PS2, Smashville, Battlefield

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 79%

Matchup Ratio: 5-5

Tips:
So I ended up not being able to go to Exposure today due to irl stuff.

My step brother plays Charizard a little though and I know a little bit of info about the matchup, I just wanted to sit down with Metroid and discuss it with someone who would beat my *** with the character.

This matchup is better for both characters than either side will probably give credit for due to not actually experiencing it for themselves. All in all I do think it's a little more in Olimar's favor, but Charizard has some fairly good tools to use vs Olimar as well. A few notes about the winged lizard though:

He's fast on the ground, and his dash dance is really good for a large character.

His N-Air is amazing, especially when he's facing away from you. This move can start combos, end combos, get Star KOs, and can be used to keep other characters out. I'm sure most of you have seen the hitbox on the thing. It does come with some punishable endlag though. Respect this move, and punish it accordingly.

Charizard CAN combo Olimar back. Mostly vertically. His Jab sets up for so much, and his range lets him catch Olimar in mid air. It's not free though, the Charizard player has to follow your DI, but if he does, prepare to be U-Air > U-Air > Up-B'd.

Charizard's got more than Star KO power too. This D-Tilt, F-Tilt, B-Air and F-Smash are all good at taking Olimar off the stage, and this is one of a few matchups where you do not want to be offstage with the disadvantage. Charizard can keep you down if he performs correctly. His Flamethrowing also keeps Olimar from recovering low if it's fresh because it can stuff Olimar's tether.

Getting grabbed sucks, and to make matters worse Charizard has a good grab range. Coupled with his speed, he can punish Olimar's whiffs fairly well, and his D-Throw is good at techchasing anyone. To make matters worse though, Olimar has one of the worst techrolls in the game, and if Charizard catches you techrolling behind him while you have high damage he gets a free F-Smash which means you lose a stock because that move his super powerful. U-Throw is also a killer so don't get caught at high damage.

Charizard is a survivor. He's heavy and he can glide. You can stuff his Glide Attack if he uses it, but in my experience it's not easy to do. You have to hit with literally the bottom half of the Pikmin. If you can stuff his glide, and keep him off for his two jumps so he's out of range with his Up-B, then you should be okay. The hard part is stuffing the glide really.

Now that that's out of the way, the way to counter Charizard is don't miss anything, and pester him with Pikmin Throw. If you put a Pikmin on Charizard's nose he actually has very few ways of getting it off. It's also not very hard to do this. This is damage for you. After you get your first real hit with anything, you want to immediately put Charizard above you somehow. Throws, U-Smash, U-Tilt, whatever. Like most characters, Charizard can't challenge Olimar's U-Air.

You're going to need to put on as much damage as you can because as I said before, Charizard can survive against Olimar. That's basically it.

Space your attacks.
Pester him.
Don't miss.

Stages... I like medium sized ones after having played the matchup a little more than the last time I talked about this matchup. Small stages aren't bad for Charizard because he takes up so much space, much like Bowser. Large stages let him live longer. They make Olimar live longer too usually, but Charizard is actually strong enough for him to kill on larger stages with far off blastzones. Charizard can also do his Fly > U-Air > U-Air > Up-B chase combo on Dreamland and still kill that way.

I actually prefer stages like PS2, Smashville, Battlefield. I don't even mind Final Destination in this match too much because it takes away the platforms Charizard could use to mix up his glide recovery with. Also Lylat Cruise again because those ledges are great for screwing over Charizard's recovery as a whole.

This now starts the week of... Diddy Kong! huh. I actually have matchup experienceo n this one. i'll report about it next time i fight my local diddy.
 

B.W.

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I played DLA in tournament just this Wednesday. I was impressed with myself, taking him down to last stock our first game and down to two stocks the second match.

DLA thinks that the matchup is heavily in Diddy's favor, but I disagree. I can't even call a matchup rating on it, sometimes it felt even, sometimes it felt like Olimar was better and sometimes it felt like Diddy was better. Really it came down to, how successful can I be at using his bananas against him. Thanks to coming from maining Y.Link in Melee and starting out with T.Link in PM, turns out I can do it fairly well.

I've really been thinking about this matchup a lot though, and I'd love to hear other people's input on it.
 

Matthew

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But doesnt bowser have invisibility how does an olimar deal with that consistently especially with a not so ideal pikmin line up?
what would be olimars best options for edge guarding a bowser ? And then what are the best stages I should take a bowser to ?
You can grab bowser out of up-b if he does not sweetspot the ledge with it. Olimar's dair can also meteor bowser's up-b but it has to be spaced very well. You can also edgeguard the up-b with fair and bair. You should take bowser to something like FD where you can pikmin throw camp to force an approach and punish. Use your grabs often because they can go through bowser's heavy armor.
 

Matthew

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I played Seagull Joe in tournament. the first match he 3 stocked me but the second match I got him down to one stock. I feel like the matchup can go either way, but he is just a better player than me.
 

steelguttey

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so i was talking with my diddy player (@Shepherd) and he said

ive got disjointed hitboxes, mobility enabling projectiles, a longer dash dance and wd than you, and overall better mobility. so you dont get in for free, and im a weird weight for you anyways.

shepherd said:
it isnt hard for oli to edgegaurd a diddy whos forced to barrel from far away, though.


if you take away my stage control and play really reactionary, its probably winnable, but diddys escape options shut out a lot of olimars actual offense, so dont expect it to be a CMV matchup.


you lose if you go offstage.


while diddy can mix up better.
and the problem is our glidetoss sucks sooo much. the key with diddy matchups is to control bananas. his agt is decent tho
 

B.W.

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Did he say Diddy is a weird weight for Olimar? If so I highly disagree. Diddy is a fast faller, which is all Olimar needs to get him to high damage. Whenever I caught DLA he took big damage, and it's certainly not a DI issue on his part. DLA made top 8 at UFGT, so that's a fact.

Also Diddy has disjoints? Cause, again if I'm reading all that right then Olimar has disjoints that are bigger and out reach Diddy's.
 

steelguttey

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ftilt, dtilt, and bair all are enough compared to olimar.

also, hes just above the weight for getting hit by two usmashes after like 50%. so hes a psuedo fast faller.
 

B.W.

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You should be going for U-Airs and N-Airs after like the first few U-Smashes. Less lag, you can move during the attack, and it had a little less knockback. I honestly had very little trouble comboing Diddy one I got him above me.

Also move of those moves of Diddy's are more disjointed than Olimars F-air or B-Air or as big as his grab.
 

steelguttey

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so thats the end of the week. kind of uneventful absolutely nobody plays diddy kong where olimar players are. anyway, i played against my olimar friend and here's what we got.

the matchup is slightly in diddy's favor. thats only because olimar's glide toss and agt are both so bad. the key to playing against a good diddy is using his nanners against you and NOT GETTING OFF STAGE. seriously the whole matchup is basically who gets off stage first loses a stock. upsmash combos wont do much due to him being a psuedo-fast faller from what i've seen. so after 2 usmashes you should start going for uairs. anyway, stages are normal, yoshi story, battlefield etc. try to out move him and just stay mobile and watch out for bananas at the same time. purple side-b is a blessing in this matchup, it shuts down all of his shenanigans if timed right. 5.5-4.5 in his favor.

anyway


Good Stages:

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 82%

Matchup Ratio:

Tips:
I played DLA in tournament just this Wednesday. I was impressed with myself, taking him down to last stock our first game and down to two stocks the second match.

DLA thinks that the matchup is heavily in Diddy's favor, but I disagree. I can't even call a matchup rating on it, sometimes it felt even, sometimes it felt like Olimar was better and sometimes it felt like Diddy was better. Really it came down to, how successful can I be at using his bananas against him. Thanks to coming from maining Y.Link in Melee and starting out with T.Link in PM, turns out I can do it fairly well.

I've really been thinking about this matchup a lot though, and I'd love to hear other people's input on it.
me said:
the matchup is slightly in diddy's favor. thats only because olimar's glide toss and agt are both so bad. the key to playing against a good diddy is using his nanners against you and NOT GETTING OFF STAGE. seriously the whole matchup is basically who gets off stage first loses a stock. upsmash combos wont do much due to him being a psuedo-fast faller from what i've seen. so after 2 usmashes you should start going for uairs. anyway, stages are normal, yoshi story, battlefield etc. try to out move him and just stay mobile and watch out for bananas at the same time. purple side-b is a blessing in this matchup, it shuts down all of his shenanigans if timed right. 5.5-4.5 in his favor.
 
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