Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
vsDiscuss
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Olimar match-up thread (Uh.)
- Thread starter Berserker.
- Start date
vsDiscuss
kenniky
Smash Master
First of all, Pikmin types (important to know these)
Red: more damage
Yellow: more range on aerials, different arc when thrown
Blue: more throw damage and knockback
White: more damage on latch and grab pummel, less health, more range on smashes, less damage on aerials and smashes
Purple: don't latch, more damage and knockback on aerials and smashes, less range on smashes and when thrown, more health
I tend to opt for Buster over Speed/Jump even though the extra damage can be a little frightening. One Buster nair is enough to kill Pikmin that are latched on to you.
Speed isn't that good because it's very horizontal because of the reduced jump height. Unfortunately Pikmin Toss is also horizontal and you'll end up racking a lot of damage if you try to close the gap with Speed. I don't use Jump a lot, but it could be useful. I would imagine the 40% extra damage is not fun, especially if the opponent has Whites. You can use the mobility arts to quickly attack Olimar when he has no Pikmin, though.
Shield is only going to let Olimar camp you more. Not a good decision imo.
Olimar is light so Smash might be useful. Watch out for Purples and Blue grabs.
Of course the general gameplan is outrange Olimar. He has fairly quick frame data and good damage output so you do not want to get too close to him. He also has deceptively long range on his smashes, and they're all fairly fast so watch out for those I guess.
You can Vision when Pikmin are on you for a free counter, although the effectiveness of this may vary.
I'd say 50:50 or 55:45 Shulk because of ease of killing Pikmin, which are obviously super important to Olimar's gameplan.
Red: more damage
Yellow: more range on aerials, different arc when thrown
Blue: more throw damage and knockback
White: more damage on latch and grab pummel, less health, more range on smashes, less damage on aerials and smashes
Purple: don't latch, more damage and knockback on aerials and smashes, less range on smashes and when thrown, more health
I tend to opt for Buster over Speed/Jump even though the extra damage can be a little frightening. One Buster nair is enough to kill Pikmin that are latched on to you.
Speed isn't that good because it's very horizontal because of the reduced jump height. Unfortunately Pikmin Toss is also horizontal and you'll end up racking a lot of damage if you try to close the gap with Speed. I don't use Jump a lot, but it could be useful. I would imagine the 40% extra damage is not fun, especially if the opponent has Whites. You can use the mobility arts to quickly attack Olimar when he has no Pikmin, though.
Shield is only going to let Olimar camp you more. Not a good decision imo.
Olimar is light so Smash might be useful. Watch out for Purples and Blue grabs.
Of course the general gameplan is outrange Olimar. He has fairly quick frame data and good damage output so you do not want to get too close to him. He also has deceptively long range on his smashes, and they're all fairly fast so watch out for those I guess.
You can Vision when Pikmin are on you for a free counter, although the effectiveness of this may vary.
I'd say 50:50 or 55:45 Shulk because of ease of killing Pikmin, which are obviously super important to Olimar's gameplan.
erico9001
You must find your own path to the future.
Here's what you can do to get the pikmin off you in the various arts, tested. I am not including Purple since it does not latch onto you.
-Buster: Nair is okay; it will kill all attaching pikmin except blue. Blue pikmin have about 11% life, rather than the usual 8. If you want to guarantee that all Pikmin will be killed, use Bair instead. This is all true for Decisive Buster, as well. However, Hyper Buster Nair does kill the blue one.
-Vanilla/Jump: One Bair kills all Pikmin. To use Bair safely, you can do a FH rising Bair, and either use another aerial, double jump, or use a special before you reach the ground. One Nair does kill white, who has 7% life.
Speed: One Bair kills all but the blue. However, you cannot escape landing lag from Speed Bair in any way except with jumping off platforms or the stage. The blue pikmin is the most tricky to take out. It takes 3 Nairs to kill blue, now. One way is to determine if he is on your upper side or your downer side, and either use Uair (Uair has the larger hitbox, so go for that more) or Dair. If both hits connect, it will die. However, both hits cannot connect if he's in the middle. A longer way is to use both Nair and Bair. Finally, up smash could be used, but should only be considered if you run away from Olimar before you do it (for safety). As for the white pikmin, one Nair no longer kills it.
Shield: Like Speed, Bair will kill all but the blue pikmin. However, neither Uair nor Dair will kill the blue pikmin, and Up Smash isn't as viable, since you can't get away as easily for safety. The best options for killing it is 1 Nair and 1 Bair, or U-Smash. Thankfully, since Shield takes less damage from Pikmin, it's not as bad if you can't get them off quickly. Shield also has one option the others don't: holding up your shield. At 0%, Pikmin stay on you for about 6 seconds. This drops to maybe 4 seconds at 100% damage. Since Shield art improves Shulk's shield, you could possibly just wait it out in your shield.
Smash: Up Smash takes out all Pikmin but the Blue. Bair + Nair takes out all but the blue. The best option to take out pikmin while in Monado Smash is to FH Rising Bair, double jump before you reach the ground, use another Bair, and spam A at the end to shortly Nair to avoid Bair's landing lag. If a Pikmin other than blue is on you, you can FH rising Bair, use your double jump, and Nair.
. Anyways, I mostly agree here. It is nice to be able to go over his stream of Pikmin. However, it's not bad if you get a Pikmin on you. All you have to do is FH rising Bair, or Nair if it's the white one. Watch out for the yellow/electric pikmin if in Jump, because they travel with a higher arc.
Purple pikmin are probably most annoying. They don't travel as far as the others, but they deal 6% damage, are thrown quickly (not sure of exact frame, but 1/4x (hold L) shows it's faster than our D-tilt), and for some reason out-priortize all our attacks while they are gliding through the air. Even a decisive buster sweetspot Bair doesn't deal any damage to these guys when they're being sent at us. Thankfully, when they clank with one of our attacks, they go through our hurtbox without harming us. Also, aerials are not interrupted when out-prioritized, so your Nair or Fair will still carry through and possibly damage Olimar. Still, the move is faster than our D-tilt, so it's faster than all our aerials too. It out-ranges our aerials too. This can be troublesome. Thankfully, it's hard for Olimar to have more than one at a time, so he won't really be zoning us out with them. If he does have more than one, his up B will be really crappy, since the purples lower the height of the up B more than the others. Additionally, if he's not careful, we can still kill the purple pikmin after it lands. One Decisive/Hyper Buster D-tilt will do it. A Down Smash is a sure way to get that pikmin dead. Two d-tilts in Vanilla or jump might work. Buster Bair... etc.
Something important to know is he can use an aerial attack out of his up B, but no specials or air dodging! Afterwards, he will enter his free-fall state.
Kenniky already went through the essentials of the different pikmin. If you are looking for more specific information on that, you can find it all here.
Don't use regular air slash from the ground on Olimar who is on the ground if you are over 84% damage (rage effect sends him too high).
Lastly, head over to the combo thread to check out Olimar's combo percents!
http://smashboards.com/threads/altogether-for-a-chain-attack-shulk-combo-thread.385136/
For example, Buster D-throw -> F-smash works from 0-31%!
-Buster: Nair is okay; it will kill all attaching pikmin except blue. Blue pikmin have about 11% life, rather than the usual 8. If you want to guarantee that all Pikmin will be killed, use Bair instead. This is all true for Decisive Buster, as well. However, Hyper Buster Nair does kill the blue one.
-Vanilla/Jump: One Bair kills all Pikmin. To use Bair safely, you can do a FH rising Bair, and either use another aerial, double jump, or use a special before you reach the ground. One Nair does kill white, who has 7% life.
Speed: One Bair kills all but the blue. However, you cannot escape landing lag from Speed Bair in any way except with jumping off platforms or the stage. The blue pikmin is the most tricky to take out. It takes 3 Nairs to kill blue, now. One way is to determine if he is on your upper side or your downer side, and either use Uair (Uair has the larger hitbox, so go for that more) or Dair. If both hits connect, it will die. However, both hits cannot connect if he's in the middle. A longer way is to use both Nair and Bair. Finally, up smash could be used, but should only be considered if you run away from Olimar before you do it (for safety). As for the white pikmin, one Nair no longer kills it.
Shield: Like Speed, Bair will kill all but the blue pikmin. However, neither Uair nor Dair will kill the blue pikmin, and Up Smash isn't as viable, since you can't get away as easily for safety. The best options for killing it is 1 Nair and 1 Bair, or U-Smash. Thankfully, since Shield takes less damage from Pikmin, it's not as bad if you can't get them off quickly. Shield also has one option the others don't: holding up your shield. At 0%, Pikmin stay on you for about 6 seconds. This drops to maybe 4 seconds at 100% damage. Since Shield art improves Shulk's shield, you could possibly just wait it out in your shield.
Smash: Up Smash takes out all Pikmin but the Blue. Bair + Nair takes out all but the blue. The best option to take out pikmin while in Monado Smash is to FH Rising Bair, double jump before you reach the ground, use another Bair, and spam A at the end to shortly Nair to avoid Bair's landing lag. If a Pikmin other than blue is on you, you can FH rising Bair, use your double jump, and Nair.
It's 22% damage, not 40%
. Anyways, I mostly agree here. It is nice to be able to go over his stream of Pikmin. However, it's not bad if you get a Pikmin on you. All you have to do is FH rising Bair, or Nair if it's the white one. Watch out for the yellow/electric pikmin if in Jump, because they travel with a higher arc.I think I agree. I could say Pikmin do just go through your shield if you are holding it up, so Shield mode could deal with being zoned. However, in this situation, you're just giving Olimar time to get the Pikmin he is looking for - an advantage for him. Still, I do recommend Shield art at kill percents, since Olimar likely wants the kill and can't get that from throwing his Pikmin at you. Here, he will probably approach.
It is true that Smash can kill him relatively early, but it is much more of a pain if one of the pikmin gets on you. The best times to use Smash are probably when he can't zone you out with Pikmin, like when he's recovering or trying to get out of a juggle.
This is true, but there is unfortunately no slowing effect. It relies on Olimar not knowing he should spot dodge or roll to avoid it, rather than shielding. This is why I choose dash vision in the mu. It can be fast enough to surprise Olimar and goes far enough so that you can be a little distance from him too. It also helps against the purple pikmin, who I have not brought up yet...
Purple pikmin are probably most annoying. They don't travel as far as the others, but they deal 6% damage, are thrown quickly (not sure of exact frame, but 1/4x (hold L) shows it's faster than our D-tilt), and for some reason out-priortize all our attacks while they are gliding through the air. Even a decisive buster sweetspot Bair doesn't deal any damage to these guys when they're being sent at us. Thankfully, when they clank with one of our attacks, they go through our hurtbox without harming us. Also, aerials are not interrupted when out-prioritized, so your Nair or Fair will still carry through and possibly damage Olimar. Still, the move is faster than our D-tilt, so it's faster than all our aerials too. It out-ranges our aerials too. This can be troublesome. Thankfully, it's hard for Olimar to have more than one at a time, so he won't really be zoning us out with them. If he does have more than one, his up B will be really crappy, since the purples lower the height of the up B more than the others. Additionally, if he's not careful, we can still kill the purple pikmin after it lands. One Decisive/Hyper Buster D-tilt will do it. A Down Smash is a sure way to get that pikmin dead. Two d-tilts in Vanilla or jump might work. Buster Bair... etc.
Something important to know is he can use an aerial attack out of his up B, but no specials or air dodging! Afterwards, he will enter his free-fall state.
Kenniky already went through the essentials of the different pikmin. If you are looking for more specific information on that, you can find it all here.
Don't use regular air slash from the ground on Olimar who is on the ground if you are over 84% damage (rage effect sends him too high).
This is just for when both characters are grounded. If Olimar is above you in the air, this does not apply (probably would work then). Also, if you are above Olimar scooping him from below, this does not apply.
Lastly, head over to the combo thread to check out Olimar's combo percents!
http://smashboards.com/threads/altogether-for-a-chain-attack-shulk-combo-thread.385136/
For example, Buster D-throw -> F-smash works from 0-31%!
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
Vision is useless in the MU. It's really easy to react to since both versions come out really late (Forward vision comes out at frame 29, normal vision comes out at frame 45). Take note that Olimar isn't slowed down soooo, count on the Olimar player actually dodging and reacting to it on time
B-air seems to be a godsend though in this MU. Buster art is actually a lot better than I initially expected when it comes to this match-up because buster+b-air is amazing for spacing, but I still prefer using jump or speed against Olimar because additional mobility is really important against Olimar. Do NOT approach with SH N-air. Actually, don't even approach at all. Just stay at mid-range and deal with Olimar from there because if you want to be real here, our frame data up close is garbage. We want to try our best to stay at mid-range against Olimar. Oh, use buster against Olimar or speed once you've positioned yourself. Use jump or speed (again) to get a bit closer to Olimar
If you have any option to consider for approaching, it'd be RAR B-air with jump/speed/buster. Why RAR b-air over n-air or f-air? Well, b-air....
1) Is your best move for killing pikmins
2) Beats out pretty much every move or projectile in the game if well spaced
3) If spaced right, will still hit Olimar if you time it and space it properly
4) Just to clarify number 3, you use b-air when Olimar throws a Pikmin or actually does anything
I think this match-up is fun. I'd say that it's even. Olimar forces Shulk to approach, which Shulk doesn't want. That already puts Shulk in a disadvantageous situation but it's not like Shulk has to go up-close to Olimar. He can stay at mid-range and actually give Olimar trouble from that zone but it could be anyone's favor at that point. Just fear the purple pikmin. Shulk players need to understand how the pikmins work because once you get how they function, the match-up becomes much clearer and you may have a good grasp on what move+what art should you use against a certain pikmin, aerial, etc
Just my opinion btw
Edit:
I also forgot to invite the Olimar boards
So expect new posts. Hopefully >_>
---
tldr
Buster art - Used once you're at mid-range, quick removal of pikmins
Speed art - Used almost all the time
Jump art - Used when trying to get close, for gimping attempts
Smash art - KO throws, KO attempts
Shield art - Reducing damage taken from Pikmins by ~33%, not dying, watering down the match into a slow pace
N-air - Spacing, removing pikmins
F-air - Spacing, contesting aerials
B-air - Removing pikmins, spacing, "rushing in"
Respect the purple pikmin
Also, for Olimar mains. For beating Shulk, I suggest that purple pikmins are good against him. Also if he tries to abuse counter, just react and punish it. It's not that hard to react to especially since you're not affected by the "slowing" effect. Shield grab aerials when the Shulk player tries to approach with n-air or f-air. Shulk's frame data is BAD so you can beat him up-close if he actually gets close to you. He'll always try to stay at mid-range so if the player does that, it's up to you to outspace him and pester him with your pikmins/aerials.
B-air seems to be a godsend though in this MU. Buster art is actually a lot better than I initially expected when it comes to this match-up because buster+b-air is amazing for spacing, but I still prefer using jump or speed against Olimar because additional mobility is really important against Olimar. Do NOT approach with SH N-air. Actually, don't even approach at all. Just stay at mid-range and deal with Olimar from there because if you want to be real here, our frame data up close is garbage. We want to try our best to stay at mid-range against Olimar. Oh, use buster against Olimar or speed once you've positioned yourself. Use jump or speed (again) to get a bit closer to Olimar
If you have any option to consider for approaching, it'd be RAR B-air with jump/speed/buster. Why RAR b-air over n-air or f-air? Well, b-air....
1) Is your best move for killing pikmins
2) Beats out pretty much every move or projectile in the game if well spaced
3) If spaced right, will still hit Olimar if you time it and space it properly
4) Just to clarify number 3, you use b-air when Olimar throws a Pikmin or actually does anything
I think this match-up is fun. I'd say that it's even. Olimar forces Shulk to approach, which Shulk doesn't want. That already puts Shulk in a disadvantageous situation but it's not like Shulk has to go up-close to Olimar. He can stay at mid-range and actually give Olimar trouble from that zone but it could be anyone's favor at that point. Just fear the purple pikmin. Shulk players need to understand how the pikmins work because once you get how they function, the match-up becomes much clearer and you may have a good grasp on what move+what art should you use against a certain pikmin, aerial, etc
Just my opinion btw
Edit:
I also forgot to invite the Olimar boards
So expect new posts. Hopefully >_>
---
tldr
Buster art - Used once you're at mid-range, quick removal of pikmins
Speed art - Used almost all the time
Jump art - Used when trying to get close, for gimping attempts
Smash art - KO throws, KO attempts
Shield art - Reducing damage taken from Pikmins by ~33%, not dying, watering down the match into a slow pace
N-air - Spacing, removing pikmins
F-air - Spacing, contesting aerials
B-air - Removing pikmins, spacing, "rushing in"
Respect the purple pikmin
Also, for Olimar mains. For beating Shulk, I suggest that purple pikmins are good against him. Also if he tries to abuse counter, just react and punish it. It's not that hard to react to especially since you're not affected by the "slowing" effect. Shield grab aerials when the Shulk player tries to approach with n-air or f-air. Shulk's frame data is BAD so you can beat him up-close if he actually gets close to you. He'll always try to stay at mid-range so if the player does that, it's up to you to outspace him and pester him with your pikmins/aerials.
Last edited:
OTG Paladin
Smash Rookie
I recently started using Shulk in tournament againest Olimar since my main Marth struggles with Olimar heavily.
I will argue that this MU is in favor of Shulk +1 in every stage that isn't Final D and Town & City.
Shulk's range is the biggest range in the game so Olimar already doesn't like that. Coupled with him are nice tools such as Bair Nair and Fair to remove Pikmin is also an amazing asset to have in this MU.
In neutral, Olimar doesn't have an answer to Shulk's Speed mode cross-up Nair besides a pivot grab or the Shulk heavily misspacing it. In Jump mode, when Olimar's offstage, Shulk is free to harass Olimar as much as he desires since Olimar's recovery serves as no threat offstage to Shulk as long as he maintains correct spacing. Also, the worst part of this MU for Olimar in my opinion is when Shulk gets the percent/stock lead againest Olimar. Shulk has the ability to camp the living heck out of Olimar by literally jumping across the stage while in Jump mode without fear as Olimar mainly wants to stay on the ground at all times and when Jump mode runs out, switching to Shield mode tends to guarantee that most of Olimar's kill options are negated such as Blue Pikmin Uthrow and Non-purple Usmash unless at ridiculous high percents. Speed mode can be used as well as a mix-up because camping platforms with Speed mode tend to guarantee cross-ups with Nair that Olimar does not have an answer to. Repeatedly doing this in my experience has aggrivated my opponent to the point where they start jumping in the air looking to hit me with a Uair in an attempt to anti-air me and Olimar approaching is exactly what Shulk needs in order to start racking up percent and kills.
http://www.twitch.tv/fadgames/v/16554922
At 47:01 is my first piece of tournament footage of me fighting againest one of Socals ranked Olimar players with Shulk. Once I had made the switch, it was alot easier to keep up with his Olimar then with Marth as that MU is just plain terrible ;-;
As for Buster and Smash mode, I wouldn't recommend it. Shulk needs to be moving at all times or else Olimar is going to be locking him down quite easily. The damage boost in Buster doesn't really matter because the main focus to win the MU is to get Olimar off-stage or force him into the air by any means and Shulk can rack up the damage quite easily by doing just that and also we don't want Olimar to be inflicting more damage to us as he has 0-60 percent strings already. The boost in knockback in Smash mode is insignificant as well because Olimar is one of the lighter characters in the game so our smash attacks are more then enough to kill Olimar at reasonably low percents unless in Speed mode.
I always ban FD againest Olimar so I've never played this MU at a reasonably high-level on that stage so the MU could be even there. I would say that the MU is even in general, but Shulk being one of the few characters that can out-camp Olimar along with ROB makes me believe other-wise.
I will argue that this MU is in favor of Shulk +1 in every stage that isn't Final D and Town & City.
Shulk's range is the biggest range in the game so Olimar already doesn't like that. Coupled with him are nice tools such as Bair Nair and Fair to remove Pikmin is also an amazing asset to have in this MU.
In neutral, Olimar doesn't have an answer to Shulk's Speed mode cross-up Nair besides a pivot grab or the Shulk heavily misspacing it. In Jump mode, when Olimar's offstage, Shulk is free to harass Olimar as much as he desires since Olimar's recovery serves as no threat offstage to Shulk as long as he maintains correct spacing. Also, the worst part of this MU for Olimar in my opinion is when Shulk gets the percent/stock lead againest Olimar. Shulk has the ability to camp the living heck out of Olimar by literally jumping across the stage while in Jump mode without fear as Olimar mainly wants to stay on the ground at all times and when Jump mode runs out, switching to Shield mode tends to guarantee that most of Olimar's kill options are negated such as Blue Pikmin Uthrow and Non-purple Usmash unless at ridiculous high percents. Speed mode can be used as well as a mix-up because camping platforms with Speed mode tend to guarantee cross-ups with Nair that Olimar does not have an answer to. Repeatedly doing this in my experience has aggrivated my opponent to the point where they start jumping in the air looking to hit me with a Uair in an attempt to anti-air me and Olimar approaching is exactly what Shulk needs in order to start racking up percent and kills.
http://www.twitch.tv/fadgames/v/16554922
At 47:01 is my first piece of tournament footage of me fighting againest one of Socals ranked Olimar players with Shulk. Once I had made the switch, it was alot easier to keep up with his Olimar then with Marth as that MU is just plain terrible ;-;
As for Buster and Smash mode, I wouldn't recommend it. Shulk needs to be moving at all times or else Olimar is going to be locking him down quite easily. The damage boost in Buster doesn't really matter because the main focus to win the MU is to get Olimar off-stage or force him into the air by any means and Shulk can rack up the damage quite easily by doing just that and also we don't want Olimar to be inflicting more damage to us as he has 0-60 percent strings already. The boost in knockback in Smash mode is insignificant as well because Olimar is one of the lighter characters in the game so our smash attacks are more then enough to kill Olimar at reasonably low percents unless in Speed mode.
I always ban FD againest Olimar so I've never played this MU at a reasonably high-level on that stage so the MU could be even there. I would say that the MU is even in general, but Shulk being one of the few characters that can out-camp Olimar along with ROB makes me believe other-wise.
Last edited: