Old-School Opponents ~ Game and Watches Match Up Thread

[SFA Smiley]

Old-school Opponents ~ Game and Watch's Match-Up Discussion​

​

Welcome everyone to the Game & Watch - Match-up Analysis and Discussion thread. I am your host Macchiato, bringing you this appetizing thread. As the title suggests, here we will analyze Game & Watch's match-ups to determine his strength's and weaknesses against the characters of the Super Smash Bros for 3DS and Wii U roster.

The game is new, the meta-game will take years to establish. Keep that in mind. The information here will have to be updated constantly during each shift in the meta-game. As a consequence, the posts that you will see will have varying views regarding how to play against each character.

Schedule: Alright, so we will do single character match-ups every few weeks. We are going in the order of the roster.

Data Submission: If you plan to contribute in a more precise and effective form, please include links highlighting any information or videos that back up your data. As a consequence, those posts will have more weight. With that said, the meta-game is still new so for now there will be an soft-exception to this rule.

General Rules: No flaming please from either side of the discussion spectrum. Everyone enjoys their own character. We will have people from different character sub-forums joining in on the discussion. Respect each other and lets figure out every little secret this game has to offer.

The overall score will be based on a score of 100. Something like 40-60. Both numbers add to 100 as you can see. We will use multiples of 10, no 91-09 unless there is an incredibly strong argument as to why something should not be considered as a multiple of 10. The number on the left will represent Game & Watch, the number on the right the current match-up opponent in discussion. For example, let's say that we have a favorable match-up against Mewtwo, we would say 60-40 if its slightly in Game & Watch's advantage. 90-10, 80-20, would be highly advantageous for Game & Watch. 70-30, 60-40 would be for a slight advantage. 50-50 would be neutral. 40-60, 30-70 would be for slight disadvantage while 20-80, 10-90 would be for a great
disadvantage.

Please Remember: When discussing match-ups we must assume that both players are playing each character to their utmost potential always.

Original Post updates: I will update the original post after each character the end of each week. If I am unable to update this post, I will let you guys know in a post in this thread during the future. It will probably be due to either 1. I am Sick, 2. I am on Vacation; I will update the thread as soon as I am available. If this happens, please make sure to continue the discussion with another character and it will be updated.

Table of Match-Ups:

| | | | | | | | | |
| 60:40 | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | 50:50

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

Schedule:

• Discussion Period 1
• Discussion Period 2
• Discussion Period 3
• Discussion Period 4
• Discussion Period 5
• Discussion Period 6

 

[Macchiato]

We are kicking it off with Nintendo's one and only mascot

Start Discussion​

 

[TheMiSP]

Sorry for rather lacking comment, but I seriously have no knowledge. My friends don't main him, and all For Glory has are the ones who love uptilt etc.

All I have to say is watch out for dair and know that both of your usmashes are pretty much anti-airs.

 

[Deleted member]

I've only played a few Mario mains in the past few months, but I'll give some advice.

If Mario does Dthrow -> u-tilt, just up-b out of it or DI. It's a pretty easy thing to escape with this character.

I would say that absorbing fireballs is a bit troublesome, thanks to the tremendous endlag that bucket was given this time around. Try to shield them unless he gets close to you, other wise you can still absorb fireballs if you're really far from him.

Lastly, Mario is surprisingly easy to gimp compared to most other characters. Once you get rid of his double jump and push him out far enough, he's probably not going to recover.

Again, I don't have much experience vs. Mario, but these are a few things I've noticed.

 

[BBC7]

I mean, I guess I can try to contribute. A problem I notice right off the bat is that Game & Watch as a character really isn't explored, so match-up discussion will be difficult.

From what I've observed, most Mario players will use Jabs to frame-trap spotdodges, and because Game & Watch doesn't really dip into the Z-Axis, spotdodging the Jab is pretty much a free F-Smash for Mario. Your roll is also slow so it can be baited out by D-Smash. F-Tilt is a good spacing tool since it clanks with Fireball, clanks with Dash Attack and beats out Dash Grab or RC Grab. A shielded Dash Attack is a free D-Throw into Nair punish for the most part, or Uair depending on percents. If their Dash Attack gets too predictable, you could always try OoS U-Smash. If the Grab gets you, DI upwards away from Mario as they'll likely try to U-Tilt. Be wary of Grab at high percents. Mario's roll is decently fast, so don't try to land with a Bair as an attack since the landing lag is enough for them to roll behind you and possibly punish with an F-Smash. Don't try to bucket Fireball up close, it's bait for Mario for basically grab you or even kill you. D-Smash is rather reliable in this match-up. U-Smash can anti-air since it has armor. Feels like a 50/50 to me, although I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not a good Game & Watch player, but I try my best to make sure I will be one day.

 

[mario123007]

To me I think they are all both even with doing good combos and jabs, so I say it's even.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I'll add my input soon. In the meantime I wanna note that Diddy is very high priority and definitely higher priority than Peach. She's just not very common at this moment in time but Diddy and sheik should really be addressed. The other characters are good though since they are all good and fairly common in tournament.

 

[Macchiato]

I'll add my input soon. In the meantime I wanna note that Diddy is very high priority and definitely higher priority than Peach. She's just not very common at this moment in time but Diddy and sheik should really be addressed. The other characters are good though since they are all good and fairly common in tournament.

We'll get to him pretty soon, I'm going straight through the roster.

We do have more range on our moves which helps us in the Match-Up and we can escape Marios combos, but he kills earlier than us just a little and since we have more lag on our smashes, he'll have an easier time getting the kill. He is also easily gimped, a offstage Dair would probably kill him at low-ish mid percents. Imo the score is 55-45 G&W

 

[THE 6r]

I haven't really played as or against Mario that much but from what I've seen they are diverse in set ups and followups and Mario, being the game's most balanced character, is a jack of all trades but master of none. That's what makes this matchup hard to discuss as Mario could do anything really. It's even.

 

[SeanS]

G&W ADVANTAGES

Most Mario play involves quick usage of nair and bair, and the usmash / aerials game lets you fight very well against that.

His fireball has enough endlag for you to predictively fair him with minimal trouble.

He is comboed normally (a.k.a. well) by the throw game.

He has a few options against edgeguarding, but a single offstage pop on him nails the kill. Average edgeguarding difficulty.

Mario cannot reliably edgeguard you because his moves require too much commitment for him to chase you in the low recovery angle.

Mario's kill options require a good deal of commitment, do not usually transition from simple setups, and do not kill at acceptable percentages. G&W must make a hard mistake in order to die.

MARIO ADVANTAGES

The one big problem G&W has in this MU is Mario's dash grab game off G&W's whiffed aerials. Mario covers *just* enough distance off an immediate dash grab attempt to stop unchecked aggression, and can chain this into utilt > uair for a decent amount of damage (although it's very overestimated by bad players as it is escapable).

Mario has a good jab game. A good jab game always hurts G&W because it quickly covers the distance G&W needs to maintain. Mario can force you inside shield with the speed of his jabs if he whiffs aerials or senses that you're too close.

OVERALL

This MU is 55-45 and possibly even 60-40 in G&W's favor despite the common perception outside of this subforum that Mario should win. Most of Mario's approaches are punishable in this MU, and his defensive game is not particularly strong enough to exploit G&W's weaknesses, but merely competent enough that a very skilled Mario can certainly win the MU.

edit: more notes, see next post

 

[X3I]

G&W's weight prevents Mario's Dthrow combos quite well. You can Fire out of it most of the time. Actually, you can Fire out of everything in this matchup because nothing is true combo. On the other side, G&W can combo him very well with his own Dthrow (Really easy to do 0% > 50-60%).

Mario has trouble edgeguarding G&W because his Side B/Down B are useless against him, as his fireball because of the bucket, + he might get killed if he tries to catch him with a normal move (stage spike with UpB). The contrary is easy because Mario has a poor recovery range, and not enough priorities to handle Keys and Turtles.

Mario's aerials are quite predictable and G&W's UpSmash/Ftilt have priority against them. Same for G&W aerials and their disjointed hitboxes... Basically, he is forced to stay on the ground while G&W can move around as he please. Though, most of G&W's aerials can be punished easily by a jab... Though, Mario's jab can be punished with a OoS UpSmash.

Mario can kill G&W at rather low percent though, but a huge mistake is needed for that... His kill moves are quite slow, and don't have priorities over G&W's moves. I think G&W have less trouble to kill in this match-up because of UpSmash's strength.

To me, it's 60-40 in G&W's favor !
Or even more depending on the G&W player's reflexes... Because OoS UpSmash and UpB close this match-up.
With time, it will become a 65-35.

 

[Neb]

If we haven't already, we ought to make a habit of inviting the respective character board here for well-rounded discussion... Mario appears to be working harder for the victory. 0-50/60% grab combos. We are able to consistently react and punish most options with priority advantage - fair walls, and poking whiffs with the sour spot can effectively shrink his zone. Usmash bites through all his hitboxes - deadly at zero percent, and an easy go-to for ending the stock. Then there is jump canceled bucket for collecting fireballs while creating safe distance...

 

[-Sensei-]

I haven't really played against any Game and Watch players in this version of the game (quite a few in Brawl, though). I'll just give a few notes.

Mario will most likely be saving upsmash for the kill. It kills G&W really due to his weight.

Down throw to up b is a true combo at low percents.

Don't underestimate fludd. If you short hop approach with an aerial, it can not only keep you in the air longer, but also give Mario time to punish with an up air or upsmash.

 

[SeanS]

I forgot to do this before, but I also want to note that G&W has a lot of defense mechanisms against Mario's fireball zoning. Helmet, fair, and up b all cancel it and let G&W deal damage if the fireball is read in CQC as well.

And really, up b is the Mario slayer generally.

Also, I scored this clip on Anther's Ladder today, maybe it will explain some of what I just talked about:

http://gfycat.com/SimpleVigorousAvians

 

[lllp3lll]

Here's some Mario stuff I just lab'd up. Note these are all combo's not strings therefore yield lower guaranteed damage over potential avoidable damage.
Mario @ 0%
Usmash > Dsmash 31%
Upthrow > UpB > Fair 25%
Dthrow > Jab 7%
Nair > Ftilt 14%
Nair can be used as a Combo starter- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am_VEYP-Vcs&feature=youtu.be

30%
Usmash > Nair 25%
Dthrow > Uptilt 11%
Nair > UpB 10%

50%
Upsmash > UpB 22%
Nair > Nair > UpB 23% (max 27%)

70%
Dthrow > Nair 17%
Dthrow > Uair 20%

90%
Dthrow > Nair 12%

100%
Dthrow > Nair 12%

120%
Dthrow > UpB 10%
------------------------
Of Course you can turn these Combo's into strings. Such as:

Mairo @ 0%
Dthrow > Jab > Uptilt > Nair > UpB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQLqH-kJXak&feature=youtu.be

 

[A2ZOMG]

Matchup is G&W's favor. I say 55/45. Neither can approach safely, but G&W does better walling on the ground and capitalizing on negative state consistently. Mario usually has to kill with either perfect F-smash hard reads or B-throw in this matchup. It's very difficult for him to U-smash a defensive G&W. G&W can get kills either with U-smash or F-air/D-air edgeguards.

 

[BBC7]

I played a bit with Mario and found that D-Throw to U-Tilt is a true combo from 3%-42%. I'm sure that it can be DI'd out of at later percents although that is quite interesting to take note on. Mario also has a true combo at starts at 0%, which is D-Throw to Jab x2. If you want to regrab with it though, you have to slow down your jabs making it not a true combo. It does 9% which means D-Throw to U-Tilt will be guaranteed at that point and can lead into scary strings if the Game & Watch is not DI'ing correctly. One string I found is D-Throw -> Jab 2x -> Regrab -> D-Throw -> U-Tilt x2 -> U-Smash -> U-Air x2 -> Up B which is around 60%. Of course, good DI should offset this.

I still do want to mention how crazy Mario U-Air is, it's practically a ZSS U-Air against G&W. EDIT: Nvm, it's probably just CPU's and their bad DI. I doubt Game & Watch dies to Mario Up B at 120% off the top.

 

[X3I]

G&W is unbeatable in air-to-air with his key... So the Uair isn't a real problem. Also, because of an old Brawl habit, I use quite a lot the key right after being hit by a move at low %, and it works well because of its priority (punishable though).

Your string doesn't work BBC7, Fire breaks it.
Fire breaks everything.

 

[Neb]

Matchup is G&W's favor. I say 55/45. Neither can approach safely, but G&W does better walling on the ground and capitalizing on negative state consistently. Mario usually has to kill with either perfect F-smash hard reads or B-throw in this matchup. It's very difficult for him to U-smash a defensive G&W. G&W can get kills either with U-smash or F-air/D-air edgeguards.

Excluding all other information shared, your own description does not reflect 55/45. This is at least 6/4.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Excluding all other information shared, your own description does not reflect 55/45. This is at least 6/4.

Ok, let me clarify. The main reason I don't yet think this matchup is further in G&W's favor is because in this game, Mario has out of shield punishes against a lot more of G&W's moves. Neither character being able to approach safely is really important on both sides, which makes neutral to an extent a crapshoot (and extremely boring for that matter because really, there's little incentive for either character to move first). While G&W can directly beat most of Mario's moves with F-tilt, this has to be spaced well like anything, otherwise it's punishable. And the fact Mario has a viable KO throw is also fairly significant.

 

[BBC7]

By the way, I think we should do a side discussion on carbon copy clone characters. I know that other MU discussions aren't doing it, but I think that characters like Dr. Mario, Lucina, or Dark Pit don't really deserve separate weeks to themselves. Like for example, I could say I find Dr. Mario to be a slightly harder MU because his pills are physical or something along the lines while going in depth on the Mario MU.

EDIT: The op forget to mention that I think it's a 50-50

 

[rabbits]

By the way, I think we should do a side discussion on carbon copy clone characters. I know that other MU discussions aren't doing it, but I think that characters like Dr. Mario, Lucina, or Dark Pit don't really deserve separate weeks to themselves. Like for example, I could say I find Dr. Mario to be a slightly harder MU because his pills are physical or something along the lines while going in depth on the Mario MU.

EDIT: The op forget to mention that I think it's a 50-50

I agree with Lucina and DP, but I've heard Doc and Mario actually play much differently, so I think Doc could have his own week. I think @ Macchiato actually mained Doc for some time, so he would probably have valuable input as well.

 

[A2ZOMG]

By the way, I think we should do a side discussion on carbon copy clone characters. I know that other MU discussions aren't doing it, but I think that characters like Dr. Mario, Lucina, or Dark Pit don't really deserve separate weeks to themselves. Like for example, I could say I find Dr. Mario to be a slightly harder MU because his pills are physical or something along the lines while going in depth on the Mario MU.

EDIT: The op forget to mention that I think it's a 50-50

The Dr Mario matchup is also in G&W's favor...for slightly different reasons. Dr.Mario is even more easily gimped than Mario especially since G&W has no trouble punishing Doc's Tornado recovery in most positions. His Pills are slightly better for camping and he hits significantly harder, but his lower mobility and shorter ranged Up-B also make him very fragile against G&W.

 

[BBC7]

I agree with Lucina and DP, but I've heard Doc and Mario actually play much differently, so I think Doc could have his own week. I think @ Macchiato actually mained Doc for some time, so he would probably have valuable input as well.

Honestly, here's how I see it.

Side Discussion:
Lucina
Dark Pit

Gray Area:
Dr. Mario

Own Discussion:
Ganondorf
Falco(he's pretty much decloned anyways ever since Brawl)
Toon Link

 

[X3I]

Dr. Mario's matchup is obviously waaaay different, and deserves another thread. It's probably easier for G&W than Mario, btw.
Lucina also deserves one, since it's played completely differently than Marth. Not the same approaches/spacing/kill moves.
Dark Pit is basically a crap version of Pit, so it's not needed.

 

[Neb]

This does not resonate as a 55:45 to me. Neutral is basically a bait and punish scenario with Mario having no solid walls to put up. His primary punishing options are from shield - which is greatly trumped by G&W's grab combos. Having also the advantage in every juggle/edgeguard scenario, even on the receiving end. His wall/punishes convert directly into his trap game. Fire shuts down his jump and bnb strings, bucket discourages his projectile usage or provides a mid-stock KO option. Mario claims a stock with high percentage bthrows - something that is strongly position dependent. Or usmash on bad spacing/hard reads. G&W will likely KO through his traps, usmash priority, dsmash, or zoning with chair and fsmash... My stand is 6:4, implementing a defensive playstyle. Something like the G&W vs Marth matchup in Brawl - with Mario taking G&W's role.

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W does have to play moderately respectfully against Mario's F-smash. It's highly unlikely Mario will actually land it, but given it does kill at like 70% and can be used to check aggression, it can't really be ignored. Another thing that's fairly significant in this matchup is that even though Mario can't really challenge G&W directly, he's better at getting away with things safely on shield. It's worth keeping this in mind when Mario tries to feint his way in with SHAD -> B-air/N-air.

Mario does have specific percent ranges where he can potentially get about ~24% guaranteed from his throw combos, which against a lightweight character is fairly significant. Even though many of his better juggles don't work against G&W, he does have some legitimate combos out of D-throw that do okay damage, and G&W's landing options in this game are not quite as safe as they were previously. It's true that G&W also has better overall grab combos than Mario, but Mario does have a 2 frame Jab that has to be factored when trying to grab him in neutral.

For all I care, the matchup could be 6/4. Just the way I see it and have experienced on both ends, it mostly just comes down to whoever gets the lead and wants to be really lame about it.

 

[SeanS]

By the way, I think we should do a side discussion on carbon copy clone characters. I know that other MU discussions aren't doing it, but I think that characters like Dr. Mario, Lucina, or Dark Pit don't really deserve separate weeks to themselves. Like for example, I could say I find Dr. Mario to be a slightly harder MU because his pills are physical or something along the lines while going in depth on the Mario MU.

EDIT: The op forget to mention that I think it's a 50-50

Doc matchup is 65-35 at least. Doc cannot spike you, he loses the speed that is central to good Mario play, and he is *extremely* easy to edgeguard. He also maintains every disadvantage Mario has in his MU with G&W, as far as I am aware.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Eh...Doc has Pills and Up-B and his B-air does a massive 14% by itself. While he gets gimped really easily by G&W offstage, he's not totally free when he does a much better job of punishing mistakes on G&W's end and his Pills can't be Bucketed. I would almost argue he goes even, ignoring how much he gets crapped on offstage by G&W.

 

[X3I]

He is definitely free offstage, it's almost impossible for him to recover against a good G&W (Fair and Bair do a nice job, Dair too).
Pills can't be bucketed, but you don't bucket that much anyway, even against Mario (except offstage because it's quite safe).
The match-up is worse because he has nothing more than Mario while losing a lot of things, and a kill is guaranteed once offstage.
He loses speed, he loses his spike (the only way to edgeguard us for Mario is to trade with his Fair), he loses some juggles...

60-40
65-35

 

[SeanS]

Eh...Doc has Pills and Up-B and his B-air does a massive 14% by itself. While he gets gimped really easily by G&W offstage, he's not totally free when he does a much better job of punishing mistakes on G&W's end and his Pills can't be Bucketed. I would almost argue he goes even, ignoring how much he gets crapped on offstage by G&W.

What moves are you even considering to be part of Doc's punish game? Competent Mario play in this MU is heavily reliant on dash grab, and Doc can't do that as easily because of his reduced speed.

 

[Locuan]

Hey guys! We just started discussion on the G&W match-up on the Lucina Match-Up Thread. It would be awesome if you guys could help us out!

 

[A2ZOMG]

He is definitely free offstage, it's almost impossible for him to recover against a good G&W (Fair and Bair do a nice job, Dair too).
Pills can't be bucketed, but you don't bucket that much anyway, even against Mario (except offstage because it's quite safe).
The match-up is worse because he has nothing more than Mario while losing a lot of things, and a kill is guaranteed once offstage.
He loses speed, he loses his spike (the only way to edgeguard us for Mario is to trade with his Fair), he loses some juggles...

60-40
65-35

Doc's lower run speed isn't a huge deal in this matchup. Most of G&W's stuff isn't that safe on block anyway, and the stuff that is safe on block, Mario isn't punishing either. And it's not like Mario's juggles are that great on G&W. Doc's superior damage in contrast on all moves is a bigger deal.

Doc actually has good KO move punishes that Mario doesn't, in moves like Up-B, D-smash, and B-air, which makes approaching him more dangerous because you have to respect other options from him. Yes he's probably a goner around 80% which is when he'll be put far enough offstage to be kept away from the ledge, while Mario is more likely to live to approximately 100% in this matchup, but his superior damage racking and greater KO options than Mario can't be ignored when approaching him. Mario generally has to end G&W's stock around 130ish% (give or take some depending on stage position) with B-throw if you specifically space to avoid F-smash and U-smash, while in Doc's case he can actually kill with B-air at around that range (keeping in mind his ledge trump B-air is also a significantly bigger threat than Mario's), and iirc kill at about 110% with Up-B and D-smash.

The matchup is pretty different, though still in G&W's favor. Doc is definitely more easily killed, but his punish options and Pills demand more respect than what Mario has.

 

[SeanS]

Hey guys! We just started discussion on the G&W match-up on the Lucina Match-Up Thread. It would be awesome if you guys could help us out!

With pleasure, I have posted.

 

[FrameImperfect]

Mario is not very good offstage, G&W has some of the best edgeguarding tools. Put 2+2 together, and it's 60/40 for G&W. Think of this matchup as the Fox/Falco vs Samus matchup in Melee. Fire, just like Screw Attack, is a safe OOS option, and only Mario's Up B can stop G&W's Up B from helping G&W escape any shield pressure.

Of course, G&W is still paper-thin, and Mario has some kill moves. Look out for Fsmash as always.

 

[lllp3lll]

I have a replay but I'm not very well versed in the matchup, but it does demonstrate mario has no off stage game against us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8yCE2nmvo&feature=youtu.be

 

[BBC7]

Weren't we supposed to start the Luigi discussion by now? I think serious efforts need to be made to maintain discussion, since I find our current efforts rather lackluster. If we're including the fact that I think it's a 50-50, Mario is a 54:46 matchup in our favor.

EDIT: I change my mind, I think it's a 60-40 in our favor.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yup. This is actually my fault I forgot this thread is being handled by me at the moment.

[My Mario input will go here]

--

^This crazy guy is next. Let's discuss what the board thinks of this matchup. Anyone have a lot of experience in this matchup?

 

[X3I]

You forgot Neb for Mario, who thinks it's 60-40 in G&W's favor.

 

[BBC7]

I don't have a whole ton of Luigi experience, but I'll still try my best to make something of the match-up.

Luigi's strengths are in his extremely powerful combo/string game, and he has a plethora of options to abuse meaning that unlike Mario, we can't just Up B out of the string and expect to be completely safe. Despite this, our aerials are disjointed so if the Luigi incorrectly reads our DI, we can hit back with a Fair or Dair and end the string that Luigi has going for him. Luigi has poor approach and can't rely on aerials to approach since he challenges our OoS U-Smash by doing so. He can't really use Dash Attack either since it is not all that safe on shield and he doesn't want to be grabbed by Game & Watch. Thus, he'll resort to testing the waters with Fireball and Dash Grab. Excessive shielding will encourage him to grab, aerial approaches will encourage him to pull out U-Smash which kills quicker than Mario's, and bucketing will just give him a free approach. Your best option is to clank the fireball with F-Tilt and if he still goes for the Dash Approach, F-Tilt him as well. If he's smart, he may mix it up a little by using Perfect Pivot Fireball. Luigi's recovery is not bad in terms of coverage, but it is extremely predictable so be sure to abuse Up B if Luigi Side B's for recovery, and Fair if he is trying to use Up B or Down B. Game & Watch's Down Throw is rather hindered in this fight because Luigi can usually jump out of anything you have planned for him except maybe Up B. Use F-Throw or B-Throw instead depending on how you can get him off stage, since that is where you have the clear advantage and the throws themselves do more damage than D-Throw.

tl;dr: Luigi has powerful combos and many options to combo, but our disjointed hitboxes still make the strings very tolerable. Luigi will rely on Fireballs and Dash Grab as his main approach, since aerials will encourage use of our U-Smash. The main goal is to find how to reliably deal with the fireballs without being too defensive. F-Tilt is a good tool for this. Luigi has a predictable recovery which gives us a clear advantage off-stage, especially since Luigi can't quite edgeguard us given he makes it back.

- 55-45. He's a bit worse than Mario because he does raw damage fast and kills earlier than the mascot plumber, as well as having an admittedly more problematic projectile in my opinion. Despite this, he also suffers from no real way to actually get in on us with safety so if he is given the chance to combo you, it was your fault for not denying his options. He can't kill us off-stage, but he can thrash him off-stage with ease due to his recovery.