Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Zero Suit Samus

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

 

[WritersBlah]

Well, seeing as this is the only other character's board that I use with no replies...

ZSS is pretty interesting when it come to customs, because I feel like they completely change the character's playstyle a lot. Like for example, I love ZSS's blaster, as it's a lot more spammable than her default stun gun. You can still use DownSmash for hard reads anyway. Both custom side-Bs, I feel, are far superior to the default as well. Seeing as Plasma Whip lost the kill power it had in Brawl, the customs offer a lot more versatility. The dash is pretty punishable on block, but I feel it's good combo food, and it gives ZSS a few more options with horizontal recovery. And the Project M whip has the same combo-starting potential it's known for, or a good lead-in for a kill move.

Speaking of which, I feel like ZSS's default UpB is her best one, as it gives her some decent vertical recovery while remaining a solid kill option. The custom variations on this move remove a lot of options, either by removing one of her best kill moves or by seriously nerfing her recovery. And then her DownBs...I really like Shooting Star Kick. That kills super early and is super hard to dodge. It's just really risky, as it can also lead to a few unintentional deaths via launching yourself off the side of the stage. I'm not too familiar with the low kick though so...anyone who wants to defend it, go right ahead.

So I'd go with 2212, personally.

 

[Crashflyaway]

I don't have much experience fighting other people yet, as I only have one friend who is at or above my skill level close enough to play with, and I'm too lazy/busy to go to a tournament. All of this experience with custom moves may end up being biased, but here's my 2 cents.

Overall, I think my favourite combination to play would be 1132, but only because I haven't given the custom side moves much work, not knowing how much hit stun and combo ability and whatever. With zss' default stun gun, it offers an incredible amount of stun on hit, allowing you to chase and follow up with whatever you like, usually a throw or up smash into an uair or 2 for me. Also, as a slower projectile than the blaster, or whatever 2 is called, it gives up shield pressure from projectiles into a mixup option on the opponents shield. A charged shot from the stun gun travels slow enough that I can usually run up and grab or attack or read a jump with a fair.

Like I said earlier, my usage with the side specials is rather limited, and with more work, I can see either of them taking the spot, but for now, I will leave it at 1 as it makes for a relatively safe spacing tool.

I will consider U dependent on D, as I would only use U3 when using D2, and I don't like U2 or D3, I find the other options to be more suitable to my play. The reason I like U3 when using D2 is because if you use the diving part of D2 at any point during the rising portion or top of the arc, while starting from the ground, you can survive no matter where you were when you started the move. Even at the end of the stage, using D2 and diving at the top of the arc, you can survive, making it a surprisingly offensive edge guard, as you can also use your initial jump to gain additional height.

The D2 also also has the ability to be confirmed from either a charged stun gun shot or a raw dsmash. If the enemy is slightly further away than the distance covered by the hop portion of D2, and you fire a charged stun gun shot and immediately use D2 (hop portion), you can then confirm the dive portion if the stun gun hits, or land if blocked. If the opponent jumps, I can't see any major repercussions from just using the dive if the opponent jumps forward, and landing if the opponent jumps straight up or backwards, but each case is different when they jump, read the situation.

Overall, I keep the stun gun, side special is a toss up, but by using the slower stun gun, the neutral side special makes a good spacing option, and using U3/D2 trades kill potential from your up special to your down special. You do lose the maneuverability of the default down special for increased horizontal recovery.

So overall I use 1132 or 1111

 

[Jaxas]

I'm by no means amazing, but the customs I use are:

All Default (Mainly used)
- N2: Blast Shot (Uncharged paralyzer feels unreliable to me, so I take poke damage sometimes)
- S3: Whip Lash
- D2: Shooting Star Flip Kick (Hilariously good in doubles, though I feel like that's probably just as a surprise attack)

I don't really use them as sets so much as just alternative options though, so that's be a lot of loadouts:
(1111)
1112
1311
1312
2111
2311
2312

 

[SAHunterMech]

2232.

I much prefer Blast shot just for poking damage, and the fact that it causes flinch is just fantastic disruption. You can even get combos from a fully charged shot if you're quick enough.

Plasma Dash is my favorite because it's approach and recovery, it's even got multi-hit to trip up rollers/spot dodgers.

Lateral Kick is easily my favorite up-b, because post patch, it's the only variant of up-b that lets you move left/right in special fall to a significant degree. Plus, ZSS is such a horizontal character; she has no reason to go super-low offstage. Finally, giving the second hit of up-b a massive horizontal range means you'll be less telegraphed when trying to pick people off up high, and more likely to connect.

Shooting Star Flip Kick is just absurdly powerful. Again, it's all about giving a previously motionless hitbox a ridiculous amount of range/movement. Plus, this one can be used for recovery to greater effect. Basically, with this kit, you can side-b, up-b, or down-b to get back, making you less predictable than before.

 

[extremechiton]

1111
(I apologize as i do not have all the custome moves yet)

Neutral b: i rely on this soley as a combo starter, and even a finisher. If i land this i can get in a free grab, dash attack, SH fair, and if fully charged, i can do a down b finisher. The blaster doesnt do much for me as it provides little stun.
B reversing is essential and it can greatly expand combos or retreat to safety.

Side b: this is great for spacing and zoning. Not to mention it can tether to the ledge. At a certain diatance along the whip, i can get a down b finish, (usually done to poor little macs) because of the windbox and angle it sends them at.
The dash i find useless as it is useless for recovery

Up b: so great for finishing, especially after an up air juggle, roll read, down smash or down b pitfall. And even as an Oos. As recovery its fine when im below the ledge, or after doing a down b wall jump.
The lateral one i find doesnt suit my needs as its awkward angle is unnecessary since my whip is my primary horizontal recovery tool.

And now the best part.
Down b: so useful for just about anything. Recovery, gimping, covering laggy moves, combo finishers (zss bouncing fish anyone?), escaping, ledge mixups, you name it. One of the best things i like to do, os at the edge, or even over the edge, if i land a fully charged paralyzer shot, i can down b and sweetspot the kick and dunk them hard into the abyss, or if i land it on stage, i can opt for the pitfall, and depending on their percent, either up smash, up b, or down smash into free follow up. I usually go for another down b, and sour spot kick them which would still kill anyway, or if im close to the edge but now within spiking distance, i can down b, and auto stomp them into the abyss.

The star kick is great for recovery, but it seems to reliant on finishing a stock, and not as versatile as the normal one.
And the lateral one.... ugh.... cant control its distance whatsoever and its hard for me to land.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Zero Suit Samus's current sets in the project are:

1311
1112
1312
2111
2311
2312

We can fill these sets out to 10 for EVO, need to have things locked down by mid-March (let's say March 17). I'm not really sure if ZSS is likely to use much beyond 1311 in practice, but if I had to guess what makes the most sense to add, it would be Plasma Dash sets? Do any of you guys have any suggestions for how this character should be rounded out?

 

[NickRiddle]

Honestly, the 6 sets we have seem perfect IMO.
2XXX helps us against campers as the laser is faster and cancels other projectiles.
1311 is her best set.
XXX2 could be helpful in certain situations.

...Yeah, this was pretty good.

 

[Remzi]

Nick's assessment is pretty much right on the money.

I don't see many players using anything besides the following sets:

Default
1311
2111
2311

That leaves us with 7 slots to fill. At this stage, I'd say that the moves worth exploring for additional sets are UpB2 and DownB2, but I doubt either of them will be used much if at all.

 

[NickRiddle]

Nick's assessment is pretty much right on the money.

I don't see many players using anything besides the following sets:

Default
1311
2111
2311

That leaves us with 7 slots to fill. At this stage, I'd say that the moves worth exploring for additional sets are UpB2 and DownB2, but I doubt either of them will be used much if at all.

XXX2 would be good in MUs where XXX1 is bad... it adds a little more utility to it...
XX2X or XX3X seems terrible though.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

Zero Suit Samus's current sets in the project are:

1311
1112
1312
2111
2311
2312

We can fill these sets out to 10 for EVO, need to have things locked down by mid-March (let's say March 17). I'm not really sure if ZSS is likely to use much beyond 1311 in practice, but if I had to guess what makes the most sense to add, it would be Plasma Dash sets? Do any of you guys have any suggestions for how this character should be rounded out?

What about sets with Lateral Kick in them? Namely 1331, 1131, and 1132.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

What about sets with Lateral Kick in them? Namely 1331, 1131, and 1132.

Would anyone actually pick Lateral Kick in tournament? My experience with that custom is that it ruins ZSS's on-stage Boost Kick game by making up-B into a suicide move from a lot of stage positions. If the move is worth it anyway, sure, it would warrant sets, but as of now I'm doubtful that it will be picked.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

Would anyone actually pick Lateral Kick in tournament? My experience with that custom is that it ruins ZSS's on-stage Boost Kick game by making up-B into a suicide move from a lot of stage positions. If the move is worth it anyway, sure, it would warrant sets, but as of now I'm doubtful that it will be picked.

I wouldn't expect it to be used frequently, but I've used it before, and it's not a bad move. I think it's worth being put on the lower slot numbers, personally.

 

[John12346]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
1311 1112 1312 2111 2311 2112 2312 1131 1331 1132

ZSS was pretty clear cut when it came time for making her sets, as she doesn't have a lot of amazing Custom Specials to work with. There were still a few open spaces, so I made a few niche sets involving Lateral Kick to fill out the rest of the slots, as suggested above. If there are any better options ZSS can have outside of this, remember to speak up!

Spoiler: Notes taken during preliminary creation of sets

Zero Suit Samus:
1/2, 1/3, 1, 1/2 and niche XX3X sets
1311 1112 1312 2111 2311 2112 2312
Niche: 1131 1331 1132
Note: Up-3 is cool with you guys?

 

[wildvine47]

No Side 2's at all? Personally the dash and the multi-hit nature of it makes it a great option for punishing dodges or laggy moves like Wild Gunmen as well as giving her a nice other recovery option. It also tears Luma a new butthole, and makes Duck Hunt's cans a non-issue. It even beats out Sonic's spindash. Is there any reason there's not a single set for it?

 

[NickRiddle]

No Side 2's at all? Personally the dash and the multi-hit nature of it makes it a great option for punishing dodges or laggy moves like Wild Gunmen as well as giving her a nice other recovery option. It also tears Luma a new butthole, and makes Duck Hunt's cans a non-issue. It even beats out Sonic's spindash. Is there any reason there's not a single set for it?

Being able to tether while facing backwards >>>>>>>>>> everything you said. it's laggy enough that you don't really gain distance as a recovery. Dash-attack punishes laggy moves and Luma WAY better than it... You also shouldn't be attacking spin-dashes, you should shield and punish Sonic's inevitable landing.

 

[John12346]

It's true that Side2 doesn't have a huge amount of utility compared to the original, but perhaps it would be worth fitting in a set or two over some of the niche Lateral Kick sets? How does that sound?

 

[M@v]

1211 may be good to have as a niche I agree... but only have side 2 in one moveset. 1311 or default are the primary go to ones for most matchups for zss I feel.

 

[wildvine47]

Yeah, I think that just one set with plasma dash is plenty enough. It's not the majority favorite clearly, but I know a few people who prefer to use it, and the option should at least be present.

 

[NickRiddle]

It's bad though.

 

[wildvine47]

It's bad though.

You're free to think it's bad, but do you think it's that much of a crime to include one set with it over one of the lateral kick sets included literally for filler? It's fine that you think it's bad, but don't deny people the option just for that reason.

 

[M@v]

It's bad though.

So is every upb and downb not named default IMO. Side b 3 is the only universally useful side b and b 2 is a matchup thing. I can't see how down b 2 would ever be used over the normal one. At the end of the day though, whose going to be using ANY of these later sets other than trying to gimmick the heck out of someone? There will probably be several new zss players down the line that think side 2 is good at first glace; let them use/experiment with it on their own and realize its bad through gameplay. Hell maybe someone will find a cool tech with it. Personally I'm sticking to 1311, default, 2311, and 2111 and that's it.

 

[NickRiddle]

I mean... any time you'd use that side-b, you could dash-attack on the ground... or just not use it in the air as you don't recover as well as just drifting...
If either of you could explain 1 instance where you would EVER use that move, that's fine... I can think of examples to use pretty much any other custom BUT that one.

 

[David Viran]

Would anyone actually pick Lateral Kick in tournament? My experience with that custom is that it ruins ZSS's on-stage Boost Kick game by making up-B into a suicide move from a lot of stage positions. If the move is worth it anyway, sure, it would warrant sets, but as of now I'm doubtful that it will be picked.

It does not ruin her on stage up b because you have to be very close to the ledge to not make it back and it also kills ridiculously early from the ledge so it's good for last stocks. Darn it im late but I can definitely see potential in this move. Maybe it will be used in the future.

 

[Jaxas]

It does not ruin her on stage up b because you have to be very close to the ledge to not make it back and it also kills ridiculously early from the ledge so it's good for last stocks. Darn it im late but I can definitely see potential in this move. Maybe it will be used in the future.

If I remember right, Lateral Kick was changed in one of the past patches; the change was it allowing you to regain horizontal aerial control much earlier.

Before that, using it really was just death. It's a lot more manageable now, though