Official Stage Discussion

[Narpas_sword]

I knew it would never happened, but that doesn't mean I'm not bummed that Dracula's Castle wasn't turned into an Eternal Darkness stage. Everything fit absolutely perfectly, and Eternal Darkness is a way underexposed game that is far better than Luigi's Mansion or Super Mario Sunshine.
Nevertheless, I'm glad that there's no longer unexplained Castlevania content, and the new dimensions are much closer to reasonable. That's especially important for a stage with such fun movement, although I still don't think I can choose it just for that. Overall, I think it's one of the better stages in the game.
The background I think is just fine, except… the stage is completely unintelligible in teams. With twice the players and the primary colors and all that movement and everything zoomed out, I can't even keep up with myself.

If anything should be an ED stage, it should be spear pillar.

Instead of those pearl/diamond/other thing pokemans we could have Xel'Lotath, Chattur'gha and Ulyaoth.

 

[MagnesD3]

kill the hazards on halberd plz... Id like it as a counterpick.

 

[Xermo]

Eternal Darkness is a way underexposed game that is far better than Luigi's Mansion or Super Mario Sunshine

'Scuse you.

 

[DarthSpoon]

The latest version of Project M allows you to choose "special" versions of cetian stages. Giving you the ability to play on Corneria OR Sector Z without taking up a lot of space. But still a secondary version for final destination has not been created. They shoud add the N64 vesrion of FD.

 

[Xermo]

The latest version of Project M allows you to choose "special" versions of cetian stages. Giving you the ability to play on Corneria OR Sector Z without taking up a lot of space. But still a secondary version for final destination has not been created. They shoud add the N64 vesrion of FD.

You weren't around for that discussion, but FD doesn't have an alt because of legality reasons and the potential idea of the devs making their own versions of the stage.

 

[SprayPaint]

You weren't around for that discussion, but FD doesn't have an alt because of legality reasons and the potential idea of the devs making their own versions of the stage.

That sounds about right.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Legality reasons?

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Legality reasons?

Like what stages you're allowed to use at tournaments. They want Brawl/Melee battlefields to be the same so they can be used interchangeably at tournaments.

 

[Xermo]

Legality reasons?

The different final destination variations have far too different proportions to be used interchangeably like battlefield, so they didn't include any for an alt. Had they done so, it could have led to disputes within the striking system over both FDs or whatever. At the moment the stage devs are still contemplating over creating a unique FD stage alt.

 

[SprayPaint]

Legality reasons?

Project M already made a smart legal move. You have to buy SSBB before you can play PM.

 

[SprayPaint]

If anything should be an ED stage, it should be spear pillar.

Instead of those pearl/diamond/other thing pokemans we could have Xel'Lotath, Chattur'gha and Ulyaoth.

Spear Pillar had the opportunity to become a great stage with some minor adjustments. Well, actually it would be major. The pokémon that mess with the stage get pretty distracting. But I still play on it for having 2 major platform above and below each other. It's quite a unique stage with great opportunity. As much as I like ED the stage should stay pokémon themed.

 

[shapular]

The different final destination variations have far too different proportions to be used interchangeably like battlefield, so they didn't include any for an alt. Had they done so, it could have led to disputes within the striking system over both FDs or whatever. At the moment the stage devs are still contemplating over creating a unique FD stage alt.

Easy solution: just go with Brawl FD because it looks way better.

 

[Xermo]

Easy solution: just go with Brawl FD because it looks way better.

I wanted brawl FD to come back / be the standard, but the team apparently finds it the least appealing.

 

[SprayPaint]

I wanted brawl FD to come back / be the standard, but the team apparently finds it the least appealing.

Brawl's FD is harder to go under. Like with Jigglyfuff. I dunno, a lot of people I play with like melee's FD better because they can go under it.

 

[SprayPaint]

kill the hazards on halberd plz... Id like it as a counterpick.

Just the part of the stage where you are actually on the halberd should stay. Everything else should be scrapped. Including the hazards.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Honestly, I don't see the big deal over the Brawl FD differences. If it's an issue then they could just ban it or alts in general.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Or just ban FD.

 

[_Chrome]

Or just ban FD.

That was funny.

 

[Boondocker]

Sorry if this is the wrong place, but I want to discuss the neutral stages. To me, a neutral stage should be one that doesnt favor any character type significantly. After studying this data, here is my current suggestion:

Neutrals:

Battlefield: The classic, 3 platform stage. Average all around.
Smashville: The platform gives help to recoveries and when it leaves, allows for some chain grabbing opportunities. Average all around.
Yoshi's Island: Similar to smashville, except the platform tilts instead of moves. The white shy guys make this stage playable since you can see when the ghost is comming. Average all around.
Lyalt Cruise: This is a unique stage that allows for interesting strategies. Slightly longer than the other neutrals, but nowhere near as long as ps2. If you don't like the slants, then ban it.
Fountain of Dreams: The shortest stage in the bunch, and the "opposite" of Lylat. Otherwise average.

Counterpicks:

Ps2: This stage is the longest commonly played stage with a short ceiling. Promotes running from characters with projectiles, and favors characters that can kill off the top greatly. Sounds like a counterpick to me.
GHZ: Short stage with a slightly above average ceiling. Opposite of Ps2.
Dreamland: All around big stage.
Wario Ware: All around small stage. Opposite of dreamland.
Final Destination: This stage is hell for those who get chain grabbed. Also too long to be a neutral. Counterpick


Delfino's Secret: Overall this isn't a bad stage, but it is too big to be a neutral IMO. It has no real "opposite" either (and thus messing up the balance of the neutrals). Could have been a counterpick, but Dreamland was chosen instead.
Yoshi's Story: The bottom is so low that certain characters cannot even sweetspot without dying. They would be forced to ban this everytime. WW is a better "small stage".
Distant Planet: Just a ps2 with leaves and a higher ceiling. Brings nothing else.
Norfair: Not a bad stage, but why? Do people even choose this?
Rumble Falls: Not bad either but would mess up the balance of the counterpicks. There are just too many big stages.

I would consider adding another big and small stage from banned to counterpick, but there is only 1 small stage left (Yoshi's) and I don't like it.

 

[Cubelarooso]

This would be the place for that.

 

[Superfiremario]

The issues with Brawl's Final Destination could probably be easily fixed.

 

[Xermo]

The stage doesn't have the same proportions. That's the main point.

 

[Sandfall]

New stage discussion!

This time we'll be talking about another original stage introduced in 3.6: Bowser's Castle!

 

[Llama Juice]

I know that stage!

 

[MegaMissingno]

Pretty cool, but I feel like it's missing something. I think what it needs is just one small or medium-sized platform right in the middle. Right now it's essentially just FD with the sides occasionally getting hit, looks cool but doesn't actually play all that different really. Turning it into a 1 platform stage would be a good way to make it feel more unique, and wouldn't be anything like the other 1 plat stages we currently have (Metal Cavern being small and oddly shaped, Yoshi's Island having an extra wide platform that tilts, and Smashville moving).

 

[Draco_The]

Didn't we already talk about this stage or am I imagining things?

 

[Xermo]

Yeah I feel like there was a discussion on "new p:m 3.6 stages" which included bowser's.
Either way stage is truly a masterpiece of stage engineering.

 

[Sandfall]

Yeah I feel like there was a discussion on "new p:m 3.6 stages" which included bowser's.
Either way stage is truly a masterpiece of stage engineering.

There was, but I wanted to have a discussion where we could get focused feedback on Bowser's Castle.

 

[shapular]

The stage doesn't have the same proportions. That's the main point.

What makes its proportions any less right than Melee FD's?

 

[Xermo]

The main reasoning behind not including it as an alt to Melee FD (as I was told) was that with such different proportions, it'd bring up conflicts with tourney standards and potentially get banned for no other reason than being brawl fd; unlike melee BF which can be played interchangeably with brawl BF. Aside from that, most of the dev team finds it the least appealing FD.

 

[GFooChombey]

Best stage in PM or best stage in PM? Seriously though, Smash has needed a Bowser's castle stage since his inclusion and this nails it. We all know it'd be better with sound effects, so I won't go into that.

Here's what I like. The textures and visuals in general are a step above the rest. There was clearly a lot of love put into this stage and it shows. The enemies moving in the background keep the stage feeling alive. I want to voice my support of having no platforms. If there were, throwing people into thwomps would be too easy and thus creating a level of "jank" nobody really wants.

Here's what I don't like. Visually the only thing I don't like is the Bowser painting. Don't get me wrong, it looks pretty sweet, but it was the perfect chance to use the painting in Mario All-Stars as a base. I look for the little things if you couldn't tell. In terms of playability, I think the center platform could stand to be just a hair bigger.

 

[mimgrim]

Needs some platforms. As it is basically just a version of FD with Thwomps.

We only need one FD lol.

 

[Rᴏb]

There should be smoke in a stage filled with lava.

 

[Nefnoj]

I took the center platform from the Legal Bowser's Castle PM and put it on the stage in my build, it's pretty nice, could be bigger, like a Metal Cavern sized platform, but I'm too lazy to change that.

Has anyone tested what it would be like to give the Bowser face on the main area some collision? It would look less weird, but it might harm gameplay.

In some of the concept art, there was a spikey platform on the left side of the left Thwomp, it'd be nice to see that return, maybe put it on both sides.

 

[Trollinguy]

It feels too much like fd, but looks AMAZING. I think one platform would be good. Heck you could make the platform high up (like between dreamlands low and high platforms height (idk maybe top platform height)) for some interesting shenanigans.

 

[MegaMissingno]

It feels too much like fd, but looks AMAZING. I think one platform would be good. Heck you could make the platform high up (like between dreamlands low and high platforms height (idk maybe top platform height)) for some interesting shenanigans.

Come to think of it, having the platform high enough could allow you to try and just knock opponents straight into the Thwomps. That'd be a ton of fun!

 

[Nefnoj]

If we have one really high platform, we want a smaller side-platform or two to make it easier to get to.

 

[_Chrome]

I love the stage, but my only problem with it is that the default music selection for the stage is awful. The only good song is Bowser's Castle (and it's spectacular).

 

[Llama Juice]

So the thought behind the design of the main platform was that we wanted to create a stage with very obvious hazards that shift who has stage control by moving where the center of the stage is mid battle. If you're in center stage and a thwomp takes out a platform... now the center of the stage has moved and you may no longer have stage control.

Personally that's what really stood out to me with this stage in it's design... was being mindful of the hazards while trying to maintain stage control. There's an interesting meta around the Thwomps where you can either try to throw the opponent into it, or just retreat back to where the new center of stage will be and then hold control of the stage after the thwomp passes through.

That to me was what differentiates this from some other FD and gave it enough legs to stand on it's own.

 

[TreK]

^ You know, that's really, really interesting. One of the most interesting tidbits about stage design that I've read in a while, and trust me I've paid attention. But.

You honestly thought that was going to matter when people don't even want to play tourney-type matches on Halberd, Delfino Plaza, or heck, not even on Skyworld and Lylat ?
Honestly, we just aren't going to make use of that gameplay aspect. We either go full ****** on it and go giga bowser quaditto in stamina v3 or turbo heavy metal mode, or won't play it for more than two consecutive matches. Either way we won't ever be serious enough about Bowser's Castle that the shift in the center of stage is going to matter.

I know it's not very PMatically correct to say that casual Smash and tourney Smash should be two distinct things. Kinda sounds a lot like "separate but equals", doesn't it ? Well the problem is, when it comes to stages, there really doesn't seem to be a way to please everybody. The ASL helps a lot, but that acts as a janky, tinker-y, not very elegant solution to the problem, lol. So if you're going to make a stage with awesome hazards like Bowser's Castle, bro, by all means, feel free to go cray cray ! But please, pleaaase save your competitive stage ideas for competitive stages. I'd hate them to be "wasted" on a stage I'm never going to play in tournaments*.

* : (actually I already played on Bowser's Castle once in tourney because it was a free tourney and we decided to do everything the opposite of the usual way, for the hell of it, and it was awesome)