Character Discussion Thread

[Weeman]

...Don't most people?

False False Sense doesn't

 

[Kenith]

At risk of sounding like a broken record, given this has been said twice in the past couple hours, "Not everyone."

Yeah, but he's saying it as if it's an unpopular opinion.
I know it's impossible for literally everyone to like the same character.

 

[Nat Perry]

If I had the choice I'd rather have Jigglypuff than Mewtwo, but at the end of the day, I want both.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

As far as the leaker for Sal goes, I think it was outdated information that wasn't communicated otherwise. The only thing that doesn't explain is the change from "Mii" to "Mii Fighter". Definitely still think the leak was legit though.

Anyway, I still fully expect Shulk in the game. If Sakurai felt that Chrom was just another swordsman, then clearly Shulk outdoes him. I'm almost 100% positive he's in it. It's just a matter of when he's revealed.

 

[Niala]

Yeah, but he's saying it as if it's an unpopular opinion.
I know it's impossible for literally everyone to like the same character.

Yes, of course, I'm sorry. The opportunity for another "Not everyone" just presented itself so nicely I couldn't hold myself back.

 

[False Sense]

As far as the leaker for Sal goes, I think it was outdated information that wasn't communicated otherwise. The only thing that doesn't explain is the change from "Mii" to "Mii Fighter".

Anyway, I still fully expect Shulk in the game. If Sakurai felt that Chrom was just another swordsman, then clearly Shulk outdoes him. I'm almost 100% positive he's in it. It's just a matter of when he's revealed.

So, is that just confidence, or is it a trust in something like the Gematsu leak or some sort of evidence?

 

[Kenith]

I have an alternate roster than my 55 character one, by the way.

Everyone character on here I am positive is 100% in the game.

For reference's, here's who's on my other prediction roster that I don't think is a shoe-in.

- Ghirahim - 60%.
- King K Rool - 75%.
- Dixie Kong - 60%.
- Takamaru - 70%.
- Snake - 75%.
- Paper Mario - 40%.

---

 

[Weeman]

I wonder how would people react if the last 2 pokemon were jigglypuff and Aegislash.

 

[False Sense]

I wonder how would people react if the last 2 pokemon were jigglypuff and Aegislash.

People would react with riots.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So, is that just confidence, or is it a trust in something like the Gematsu leak or some sort of evidence?

Nah, I completely expect Shulk with or without Gematsu. I mean Gematsu gave me even more confidence, and even given the possibility that it isn't reliable, I still think Shulk himself is in the game. With or without Chorus Men.

That said, I DO believe the leak, and I do think Chorus Men/Marshal are in. That's mainly based on the Sneaky Spirits.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I wonder how people would react if we got Sceptile and Zoroark as the last two Pokemon.

 

[Nat Perry]

I wonder how would people react if the last 2 pokemon were jigglypuff and Aegislash.

I wonder how people would react if we got Sceptile and Zoroark as the last two Pokemon.

Zoroark could go either way, but people would be more mad at the possibility of his inclusion being at the expense of either Jigglypuff or Mewtwo's inclusion.

As for Aegislash and Sceptile...

Very, very poorly.

It wouldn't even be a "troll" or "Sakurai" move, it would cross the line labeled "dumb" and enter "WTF" territory.

And then people approving because Sakurai.

And then debating, and fighting, and rampant disrespect on the Internet and not in person.

Maybe in person.

 

[False Sense]

Nah, I completely expect Shulk with or without Gematsu. I mean Gematsu gave me even more confidence, and even given the possibility that it isn't reliable, I still think Shulk himself is in the game. With or without Chorus Men.

That said, I DO believe the leak, and I do think Chorus Men/Marshal are in. That's mainly based on the Sneaky Spirits.

So, just confidence, then? Do you have any kind of substantial evidence to back up your absolute confidence?

 

[Weeman]

Zoroark could go either way, but people would be more mad at the possibility of his inclusion being at the expense of either Jigglypuff or Mewtwo's exclusion.

As for the other three...

Very, very poorly.

It wouldn't even be a "troll" or "Sakurai" move, it would cross the line labeled "dumb" and enter "WTF" territory.

And then people approving because Sakurai.

And then debating, and fighting, and rampant disrespect on the Internet and not in person.

Maybe in person.

Well people don't seem to like that we have so much sword users, so let's make a sword playable

 

[Nat Perry]

@ False Sense he could be pulling the Intuition Card.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So, just confidence, then? Do you have any kind of substantial evidence to back up your absolute confidence?

I suppose not. It's just the gut feeling I get.

When you think about the way Sakurai has been picking his characters, a lot of it has been about gameplay. Xenoblade has been a big thing in the Nintendo/Gaming Community, and Shulk has proven to be a fairly popular character among Smash fans. It doesn't take much to come up with a moveset for Shulk either. It basically makes itself. He's a swordsman that is simply unmatched potential wise. Shulk even outdoes almost ANY newcomer choice in gameplay potential just based on the stuff he can do. I'm talking like more unique than anybody we've SEEN so far.

I'm that confident. There's always the chance I could get burned. But Shulk isn't like Chrom. He's a far better choice...and the music selection from Xenoblade Chronicles is one of the best as well.

 

[Kenith]

By the way, I made this in like five minutes and showed it to the guys in the Ridley thread to farm for likes.
I think it trivializes the size argument.

The characters are actually smaller than that, but still.

See? That Ridley sprite is almost always how he appears in the games.
That's important, because characters in Smash are almost always based on their sprites. The fact that Ridley's Zero Mission sprite downscaled fits right in on one of the smaller stages in this game says a lot to me.

 

[Nat Perry]

I was right, @ Scoliosis Jones just pulled the Intuition Card. Which can be valid, or not, but it's not a bad call on his part.

@ Kenith He still looks really funny with those proportions. If he's going to take up that much room he better be re-proportioned so he doesn't look stupid onscreen. But that does kinda fit, but would fit better with an all-new model.

 

[False Sense]

I suppose not. It's just the gut feeling I get.

When you think about the way Sakurai has been picking his characters, a lot of it has been about gameplay. Xenoblade has been a big thing in the Nintendo/Gaming Community, and Shulk has proven to be a fairly popular character among Smash fans. It doesn't take much to come up with a moveset for Shulk either. It basically makes itself. He's a swordsman that is simply unmatched potential wise. Shulk even outdoes almost ANY newcomer choice in gameplay potential just based on the stuff he can do. I'm talking like more unique than anybody we've SEEN so far.

I'm that confident. There's always the chance I could get burned. But Shulk isn't like Chrom. He's a far better choice...and the music selection from Xenoblade Chronicles is one of the best as well.

Can't really argue that Shulk has some good credentials. I'm not sure if that makes him a shoo-in, though.

I suppose it just bothers me some when people talk about guarantees and shoo-ins when such things don't actually exist.

Now, slightly different question: how exactly can Shulk be more unique than any other newcomer we've seen so far? I'm well aware that he has some great potential, but I've never thought of him as the single most unique potential newcomer. Do you have some sort of idea for him in mind?

 

[Kenith]

@ Kenith He still looks really funny with those proportions. If he's going to take up that much room he better be re-proportioned so he doesn't look stupid onscreen.

I'm making a better version right now.

Give it a second.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Can't really argue that Shulk has some good credentials. I'm not sure if that makes him a shoo-in, though.

I suppose it just bothers me some when people talk about guarantees and shoo-ins when such things don't actually exist.

Now, slightly different question: how exactly can Shulk be more unique than any other newcomer we've seen so far? I'm well aware that he has some great potential, but I've never thought of him as the single most unique potential newcomer. Do you have some sort of idea for him in mind?

I'll explain it in some sort of detail. I may not be the best for it, but @ Big-Cat has some good ideas.

In Xenoblade Chronicles, (not sure if you've played it) Shulk has several different abilities at his disposal. He is able to use these abilities based on the Talent Gauge. The Talent Gauge basically recharges after use and drains more depending on the attack/ability you use.

So if you translate that to Smash, you could essentially have a character that is risk/reward and has range in his attacks. I could see him almost as a heavyweight character based on his strength or range, as the Monado grows into a very powerful weapon, charging to ridiculous sizes at time.

Like I said, the guy who came up with the idea could explain it better. But I hope that that gives some sort of framework for it.

I mean like I said, it's a gut feeling I have. There's just something about it that I can't quite place my finger on.

 

[Kenith]

Here we go.

I think this is much better.

They're all a little bit smaller, but there will still be some discrepancies.
Still, this is the same general size.

Also, the characters are the same as the picture I based it off of now, except Ridley eated Fox.

Here's the source: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-character-discussion-thread.347464/page-1135#post-17160253

 

[Nat Perry]

I'll explain it in some sort of detail. I may not be the best for it, but @ Big-Cat has some good ideas.

In Xenoblade Chronicles, (not sure if you've played it) Shulk has several different abilities at his disposal. He is able to use these abilities based on the Talent Gauge. The Talent Gauge basically recharges after use and drains more depending on the attack/ability you use.

So if you translate that to Smash, you could essentially have a character that is risk/reward and has range in his attacks. I could see him almost as a heavyweight character based on his strength or range, as the Monado grows into a very powerful weapon, charging to ridiculous sizes at time.

Like I said, the guy who came up with the idea could explain it better. But I hope that that gives some sort of framework for it.

Ah so you're thinking a character whose attack power increases the more it charges? Are you thinking that should apply to specials or both special and certain standard attacks?

 

[Big-Cat]

Can't really argue that Shulk has some good credentials. I'm not sure if that makes him a shoo-in, though.

I suppose it just bothers me some when people talk about guarantees and shoo-ins when such things don't actually exist.

Now, slightly different question: how exactly can Shulk be more unique than any other newcomer we've seen so far? I'm well aware that he has some great potential, but I've never thought of him as the single most unique potential newcomer. Do you have some sort of idea for him in mind?

First off, let me get into his specials.

Up B: Air Slash - Shulk does a rising sword swing reminiscent of Marth. Not much else to say about this move.
Side B: Shaker Edge - A rather unusual move. Has slow startup and is whiff punishable. However, the move makesup for this by being an instant shield breaker and puts the opponent in a dizzy state even if they weren't shielding. A very situational move, this move is best used to distort the opponent's rhythm.
Down B: Battle Soul - This move will come into play with the Talent Gauge by filling it up a certain amount by sacrificing a certain amount of health.

B: Monado Arts:
This is what I'm getting to. As you all know, Shulk can only access his Monado Arts when his talent gauge is full which is filled up by either using Battle Soul or using Auto-Attack. So, Shulk will, in essence, have a meter of his own that is filled up by inflicting damage on the opponent or using Battle Soul in Smash.

When your Talent Gauge is full, press B to gain access to four Monado Arts: Shield, Speed, Purge, and Buster. When you press B to activate the Talent Gauge, you select from the D-Pad which of the four you want.

Down: Monado Shield - This grants you a passive reflector that's good for reflecting one projectile.
Left: Monado Speed - Grants you faster feet movement.
Right: Purge - Hit the opponent with this and they lose access to their special moves for five seconds.
Up: Monado Buster - Simply a very powerful, long ranged attack.

Now what's interesting to note is that like in Xenoblade, using these arts drain the talent gauge a defined amount like how it is in Xenoblade. Shield consumes only half while Buster empties the whole thing.

Your primary strategy is to fill up your Talent Gauge and have your Talent Gauge on standby.

What do you think?

 

[TumblrFamous]

I have an alternate roster than my 55 character one, by the way.

View attachment 19548

Everyone character on here I am positive is 100% in the game.

For reference's, here's who's on my other prediction roster that I don't think is a shoe-in.

- Ghirahim - 60%.
- King K Rool - 75%.
- Dixie Kong - 60%.
- Takamaru - 70%.
- Snake - 75%.
- Paper Mario - 40%.

---

Ridley is a really weird way to spell "Chorus Kids"

Kidding, I feel as if these are pretty likely to get in.

 

[Nat Perry]

Here we go.

View attachment 19550

I think this is much better.

They're all a little bit smaller, but there will still be some discrepancies.
Still, this is the same general size.

Also, the characters are the same as the picture I based it off of now, except Ridley eated Fox.

Here's the source: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-character-discussion-thread.347464/page-1135#post-17160253

That's better, ish. I'm not completely sold on him being playable, but that's not that bad of a size. I'd somehow make him the biggest character in the game while still giving him viable proportions, but you can't really do much with ripped sprites haha.

 

[Niala]

Here we go.

View attachment 19550

I think this is much better.

They're all a little bit smaller, but there will still be some discrepancies.
Still, this is the same general size.

Also, the characters are the same as the picture I based it off of now, except Ridley eated Fox.

Here's the source: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-character-discussion-thread.347464/page-1135#post-17160253

I'll admit he does look somewhat out of place, but that's only because the style of the sprite doesn't match the other three.

But I get the point you're making, and even as somebody who despises the concept of Ridley in Smash, I agree that the argument that "he's too big" is absurd.

First off, let me get into his specials.

Up B: Air Slash - Shulk does a rising sword swing reminiscent of Marth. Not much else to say about this move.
Side B: Shaker Edge - A rather unusual move. Has slow startup and is whiff punishable. However, the move makesup for this by being an instant shield breaker and puts the opponent in a dizzy state even if they weren't shielding. A very situational move, this move is best used to distort the opponent's rhythm.
Down B: Battle Soul - This move will come into play with the Talent Gauge by filling it up a certain amount by sacrificing a certain amount of health.

B: Monado Arts:
This is what I'm getting to. As you all know, Shulk can only access his Monado Arts when his talent gauge is full which is filled up by either using Battle Soul or using Auto-Attack. So, Shulk will, in essence, have a meter of his own that is filled up by inflicting damage on the opponent or using Battle Soul in Smash.

When your Talent Gauge is full, press B to gain access to four Monado Arts: Shield, Speed, Purge, and Buster. When you press B to activate the Talent Gauge, you select from the D-Pad which of the four you want.

Down: Monado Shield - This grants you a passive reflector that's good for reflecting one projectile.
Left: Monado Speed - Grants you faster feet movement.
Right: Purge - Hit the opponent with this and they lose access to their special moves for five seconds.
Up: Monado Buster - Simply a very powerful, long ranged attack.

Now what's interesting to note is that like in Xenoblade, using these arts drain the talent gauge a defined amount like how it is in Xenoblade. Shield consumes only half while Buster empties the whole thing.

Your primary strategy is to fill up your Talent Gauge and have your Talent Gauge on standby.

What do you think?

This is incredible. I'm not certain about the input for it, but the concept is amazing. Doesn't it make just as much sense to just use the control stick for the inputs, given that you have to select your neutral special first either way?

 

[Arcadenik]

Playing as Duck Hunt Dog in Smash would be a dream come true... but for now, it's just a dream.

Duck Hunt Dog for Smash!

 

[False Sense]

I'll explain it in some sort of detail. I may not be the best for it, but @ Big-Cat has some good ideas.

In Xenoblade Chronicles, (not sure if you've played it) Shulk has several different abilities at his disposal. He is able to use these abilities based on the Talent Gauge. The Talent Gauge basically recharges after use and drains more depending on the attack/ability you use.

So if you translate that to Smash, you could essentially have a character that is risk/reward and has range in his attacks. I could see him almost as a heavyweight character based on his strength or range, as the Monado grows into a very powerful weapon, charging to ridiculous sizes at time.

Like I said, the guy who came up with the idea could explain it better. But I hope that that gives some sort of framework for it.

For the record, yes, I have played Xenoblade Chronicles (I thought it was excellent, by the way).

I suppose I never thought about the Monado changing sizes. I guess it's a possibility, though it usually only does that for specific attacks, not for a general thing.

One idea I had for a move set was to give Shulk a gimmick based on his Talent Gauge and Arts. It's probably somewhat similar to your proposed idea, but I think it's a bit different. As I'm sure you know, Shulk has a variety of special skills called Arts in his game that he can use as a sort of special attack, each one with its own unique effect. Of course, Shulk also has the ability to not use Arts and just do auto-attacks to deal damage. What's important in the gameplay of Xenoblade is that only auto-attacks can fill up Shulk's Talent Gauge, which when full allows Shulk to unleash powerful Monado Arts. As a result, you have to strike a balance between using auto-attacks and Arts.

Now, when I was playing through Xenoblade, I thought this gameplay could translate excellently into Smash. The transition would be easy; Shulk's special moves could be based on his regular Arts (such as Stream Edge, Back Slash, Air Slash, etc.), while his standard attacks would be the equivalent of auto-attacks. I imagine Shulk could incorporate a Talent Gauge mechanic that fills up as you use standard moves (but not specials), and when it's full, Shulk's regular specials become much more powerful specials based on Monado Arts (such as Buster, Shield, Agility, etc.). Using any of the Monado specials would cost a portion of your Talent Gauge depending on the move used, so just like in Xenoblade, you'd have to know how to properly spend your Talent Gauge. I think this would be an excellent way to not only make Shulk unique, but to perfectly represent the core gameplay of Xenoblade Chronicles in Smash.

That's just my idea, though. It may or may not work in practice, but I think it's a cool concept.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

For the record, yes, I have played Xenoblade Chronicles (I thought it was excellent, by the way).

I suppose I never thought about the Monado changing sizes. I guess it's a possibility, though it usually only does that for specific attacks, not for a general thing.

One idea I had for a move set was to give Shulk a gimmick based on his Talent Gauge and Arts. As I'm sure you know, Shulk has a variety of special skills called Arts in his game that he can use as a sort of special attack, each one with its own unique effect. Of course, Shulk also has the ability to not use Arts and just do auto-attacks to deal damage. What's important in the gameplay of Xenoblade is that only auto-attacks can fill up Shulk's Talent Gauge, which when full allows Shulk to unleash powerful Monado Arts. As a result, you have to strike a balance between using auto-attacks and Arts.

Now, when I was playing through Xenoblade, I thought this gameplay could translate excellently into Smash. The transition would be easy; Shulk's special moves could be based on his regular Arts (such as Stream Edge, Back Slash, Air Slash, etc.), while his standard attacks would be the equivalent of auto-attacks. I imagine Shulk could incorporate a Talent Gauge mechanic that fills up as you use standard moves (but not specials), and when it's full, Shulk's regular specials become much more powerful specials based on Monado Arts (such as Buster, Shield, Agility, etc.). Using any of the Monado specials would cost a portion of your Talent Gauge depending on the move used, so just like in Xenoblade, you'd have to know how to properly spend your Talent Gauge. I think this would be an excellent way to not only make Shulk unique, but to perfectly represent the core gameplay of Xenoblade Chronicles in Smash.

That's just my idea, though. It may or may not work in practice, but I think it's a cool concept.

That's basically what @ Big-Cat and I have discussed. That last idea you had with the talent gauge. That on its own just lends itself to be an incredible moveset. If you didn't see it yet, be sure to give his post a read.

 

[Big-Cat]

This is incredible. I'm not certain about the input for it, but the concept is amazing. Doesn't it make just as much sense to just use the control stick for the inputs, given that you have to select your neutral special first either way?

The idea is that you could still move around with the Monado being activated, but I'm not sure about that now. Mind you I wrote that back in April so it may need some fine tuning.

 

[Nat Perry]

Brilliant, sounds similar to Little Mac's KO Punch ability, except it deals with more specials.

 

[epicgordan]

First off, let me get into his specials.

Up B: Air Slash - Shulk does a rising sword swing reminiscent of Marth. Not much else to say about this move.
Side B: Shaker Edge - A rather unusual move. Has slow startup and is whiff punishable. However, the move makesup for this by being an instant shield breaker and puts the opponent in a dizzy state even if they weren't shielding. A very situational move, this move is best used to distort the opponent's rhythm.
Down B: Battle Soul - This move will come into play with the Talent Gauge by filling it up a certain amount by sacrificing a certain amount of health.

B: Monado Arts:
This is what I'm getting to. As you all know, Shulk can only access his Monado Arts when his talent gauge is full which is filled up by either using Battle Soul or using Auto-Attack. So, Shulk will, in essence, have a meter of his own that is filled up by inflicting damage on the opponent or using Battle Soul in Smash.

When your Talent Gauge is full, press B to gain access to four Monado Arts: Shield, Speed, Purge, and Buster. When you press B to activate the Talent Gauge, you select from the D-Pad which of the four you want.

Down: Monado Shield - This grants you a passive reflector that's good for reflecting one projectile.
Left: Monado Speed - Grants you faster feet movement.
Right: Purge - Hit the opponent with this and they lose access to their special moves for five seconds.
Up: Monado Buster - Simply a very powerful, long ranged attack.

Now what's interesting to note is that like in Xenoblade, using these arts drain the talent gauge a defined amount like how it is in Xenoblade. Shield consumes only half while Buster empties the whole thing.

Your primary strategy is to fill up your Talent Gauge and have your Talent Gauge on standby.

What do you think?

And his Final Smash could be the Chain Attack where he summons two random party members (got to have Reyn Time at least) and they each perform their strongest attacks.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Playing as Duck Hunt Dog in Smash would be a dream come true... but for now, it's just a dream.

Duck Hunt Dog for Smash!

This, as long s PETA stick their damn noses out this at all costs.

 

[Nat Perry]

And his Final Smash could be the Chain Attack where he summons two random party members (got to have Reyn Time at least) and they each perform their strongest attacks.

Oh yeah baby. I like the idea of summoning characters for Final Smashes. It gets me stoked, and I normally don't get stoked on a regular basis.

 

[Kenith]

Anyone want to talk Final Smashes?

I really do.

 

[Niala]

The idea is that you could still move around with the Monado being activated, but I'm not sure about that now. Mind you I wrote that back in April so it may need some fine tuning.

Interesting. I can see the merit of it. My logic was that you run the risk of mistaken inputs either way when you're trying for really quick inputs. For example, when you're trying to reflect something, it's normally going to have to be done while the projectile is in motion. People aren't likely to shoot something at you if they can see your Monado is charged and you've activated it, it's far too obvious. If you're going to risk mistaken inputs with a moveset, I think it's more logical to risk it on another attack rather than a taunt, which would leave you more open for punishment in almost every case.

Anyone want to talk Final Smashes?

I really do.

Like whooooooooo?

 

[Nat Perry]

Ghirahim's Final Smash: Transforms into the darker version of himself and his attacks become faster and more powerful. He returns to normal after 12 seconds. Prior to transforming back he turns into Demise's sword, points himself skyward, and attacks with a powerful swing.

 

[epicgordan]

This, as long s PETA stick their damn noses out this at all costs.

Last I checked, Nintendo doesn't take PETA at all seriously. If they did, they'd either completely change Pokémon, or flat out end the series.

 

[Kenith]

Like whooooooooo?

At the moment:

- Ridley
- Ghirahim
- Starfox characters
- Paper Mario