Official Ask Anyone Frame Things Thread

[VoiD-]

Is there a list somewhere of the knockback growth and base knockback for various attacks?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Yes.

Spoiler

10characters

 

[Bones0]

Do you fall onto the ledge faster if you slide off while shielding (with Falco if it's relevant)?

 

[Bones0]

Do you need to input a higher angle to up-B off the ground than out of midair? I noticed a match where a Falcon accidentally landed on Randall and he side-B'd by accident, and I've had the same thing happen to me, but it feels like if I hadn't landed, I would have done an up-B.

 

[ajp_anton]

Yes, up+B has a wider input angle in the air. Haven't checked how much though, but it's noticeable enough that I was able to easily confirm it years ago without TAS or AR.

 

[Bones0]

Thank you, ajp_anglemaster.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Is the angle still enough for you to do full curl with Marth (full upB horizontal distance)?

 

[Bones0]

I'm sure you can. I don't think the angle for the curl is registered until a few frames after you start the up-B. I think I actually press the stick almost entirely straight up and still get curls/reverses really far.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Most interesting thing I've read in this thread in a while, good going AJP!

 

[ajp_anton]

Random fact about up+B aiming.

As you know, you can angle certain up+Bs backwards if you do it quick enough so you don't turn around in the process. This will generally make the up+B more vertical, however not always.

There are two types of up+B aiming. I made two charts with mostly inter- and extrapolated information because of laziness, but they should be accurate enough to give a general idea:
Type 1: Dr Mario, Mario, Peach.
Type 2: Marth, Roy.

The x-axis represents the control stick's horizontal tilt, which runs from -128 to 127. As you can see the most extreme values make no difference anyway, and very small tilts do nothing.
The y-axis represents the relative angle of the up+B with an arbitrary but linear scale.

You see the weird behaviour of Type 2? Yeah, don't try to aim backwards with Marth or Roy, you might accidentally go too far and actually aim more forwards than default.
edit: the -48.5 means that values -48 and -49 have the same up+B aim, so the limit would be between those if the control stick had more precision.

 

[Bones0]

Not gonna lie, I didn't understand any of that.

 

[ajp_anton]

Don't know how to explain it any easier, even considered not explaining at all since the images should explain themselves pretty much.
If you tilt the stick more forward (right), the curves go up (the up+B also goes more forward).
If you tilt backward, the up+B will also go backward, however with Marth/Roy the up+B will soon reach a maximum backwards angle. If you tilt the stick even more backward past this point, the up+B will start to go forward instead.
You can also see the flat areas where the up+B angle doesn't change for different tilts.

 

[Bones0]

Don't know how to explain it any easier, even considered not explaining at all since the images should explain themselves pretty much.
If you tilt the stick more forward (right), the curves go up (the up+B also goes more forward).
If you tilt backward, the up+B will also go backward, however with Marth/Roy the up+B will soon reach a maximum backwards angle. If you tilt the stick even more backward past this point, the up+B will start to go forward instead.
You can also see the flat areas where the up+B angle doesn't change for different tilts.

Well I actually understood all of it except that bolded part. lol So you're just saying if you curl a reverse up-B too far, it won't reverse at all. Is it super difficult? Because I've never had that problem.

 

[ajp_anton]

Yes that's what I'm saying =). Try too much and it will backfire and make it worse than what it would've been had you just gone with no aim at all.
As for how this works out in IRL, it of course depends on how good you are on these "reverse" up+B's. If you're able to get 13.35 with DrMario in BtT, you're aiming too much for Marth/Roy, especially since it's easier with them thanks to a longer aiming window.
It's not as bad as a full forward aim (see the chart =)), so chances are you just didn't notice you went forward.
Also, I think that on a real controller the control stick can only be tilted to maybe +100. Just a guess though, I may check this someday, maybe...

 

[Bones0]

Idk how I would be unable to tell the difference between forward and backward, so I'm assuming I still don't understand.

 

[ajp_anton]

Well I don't know how well you know their up+Bs. Maybe you main Marth and can easily tell how an up+B was aimed when you see one. I doubt I could see a difference without back and forth screenshot comparisons unless the aim was at least half forward (it doesn't go very far backward even if done perfectly).

 

[Bones0]

By backward, I thought you meant reversed. Are you saying you can up-B facing forward and land behind where you started? O_o

 

[ajp_anton]

Well I guess problem solved. You missed "you can angle certain up+Bs backwards if you do it quick enough so you don't turn around in the process"?
Anyway, only Peach's default angle is vertical enough that aiming backward can reach 90° and beyond. Everyone else can only get closer to vertical but not past it.

 

[Bones0]

Okay, I get it now. LOL

Do you by any chance know the mechanics of tipping Marth's up-B? For the longest time people seemed to say if you reversed it the hitbox went further or you were able to tip it better somehow. Is there any way you could test that?

 

[ajp_anton]

I'm too tired to test it now, and I've noticed that I suck at keeping promises about the future, so I'll just answer with what I think is true and may or may not confirm it later =).

Marth's up+B has at least two different hitboxes. A strong one in the beginning facing the same direction you did before the up+B, and a weaker one following the sword.
I think the weaker one has priority, so if it hits, that's the only thing that's going to hit. By turning around you minimize the risk that the weak one hits so only the strong one does.

 

[Lovage]

just based off experience i'd say it's either a tiny difference or none at all. honestly just try up+b'ing in a cpu's face the range (the hit of the bottom of his sword as he starts going up ) and see how good the range is.

 

[MT_]

I didn't realize that you could do different degrees of angling on Marth's up-b. I have seen getting lightshield edgehogged and 99.99% of the time they will hit the opponents shield if they try to sweetspot the ledge, but I think I have seen like 1-2 times where Marth up-b's and sweetspots the ledge and doesn't hit the shield at all (not even up-b'ing high or anything). I wonder if there's a perfect degree of up-b angling that can allow Marth to sweetspot the ledge? Or maybe the times it worked, the opponent just screwed up his lightshield or something lol.

This is pretty interesting. I wonder if there's a consistent up-b angle that Marth can take to get around lightshield edgehogs in general.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Can someone link me to a post/guide regarding attacks from the ledge both above and below 100% etc.?

I'm having trouble understanding when I'm invincible and when I'm not. I play Samus if they're character specific.

 

[DRGN]

Here under "Ledge frame data".

 

[iRobinhoood]

Thanks for the link brah.

 

[GunPunch]

I play Samus

yes! caught u, forget falcon. samus is where its at

 

[KirbyKaze]

Unknown522 is telling me that space animals don't move as much when they SDI away from things because they're FFers.

I'm not sure about the mechanics of SDI but I'm curious. Is this the case? If you get an input of SDI with a space animal, do they move less than you would as like, say, Pikachu?

 

[Ripple]

no, I'm pretty sure every character moves the exact same amout but due to their hitlag animation or their frame it may look like they do not move as far and still get hit

 

[Divinokage]

Might be because Pikachu is fat.

 

[Bones0]

Wouldn't you move further because the move would have more knockback? Like I thought that's why Jiggs could SDI Fox's uair super far away compared to, say, Ganon.

 

[Divinokage]

It's easier for her because her body hitbox is a lot smaller than Ganon's.. could be because of weight too but I don't really concern myself with technicalities like that...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've never had any difficulty doing it with Popo, and he is a similar size to Puff but noticeably heavier.

 

[Bones0]

I knew character size plays a role, but I've always just thought it looks like Jiggs goes crazy far from her SDIs, but maybe Hbox is just mad good at timing it. It also feels a LOT easier to SDI at high %s.

 

[Mahone]

if i get hit away and i think im gonna die when i get out of stun should i jump towards the stage or pound towards the stage...

i generally pound, but sometimes i die doing it cuz of the momentum and i basically want to know what cancels momentum better and gives me a better chance of living

 

[Magus420]

You should always double jump if you go near the blastzone. In Puff and Kirby's case jump and immediately f-air because their air jumps have reduced mobility. Pound is even worse than just jump without f-air.

 

[Bones0]

You should always double jump if you go near the blastzone. In Puff and Kirby's case jump and immediately f-air because their air jumps have reduced mobility. Pound is even worse than just jump without f-air.

Wow, never knew that. What about shine? I always shine when I slide off-stage because I figured it reduced my horizontal momentum more quickly.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Specials increase your momentum.

 

[Bones0]

Cool, so I've instilled a habit that kills me sooner.

 

[Magus420]

Shine does nothing except reset vertical character velocity which an air jump also does (knockback and character physics are entirely separate forces, and no move affects the KB part), and then has low fall acceleration during it. The lower acceleration is counteracted by being unable to apply air mobility. It's the same as holding nothing at all for surviving near the side blastzone, since it has 0 effect on horizontal char velocity and you can not apply air mobility during it. Jumping adds an instant sizeable amount of char velocity away from the blastzone and air mobility will add to that from there until hitting max horizontal mobility.

Nearing a top blastzone though you don't want to do anything that'd reset fall speed like jumping or shine, so that your max fall speed continues to work against the KB in full.

 

[Mahone]

Thats a lot, i appreciate it