Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[AustinRC]

Yeah it's really helpful, using it as a set up from dtilt/ late aerial is also really good because it covers SOOOO many options and can be safe even if shielded. It can even sometimes catch inward rolls, so like only one thing it doesn't punish is roll away's but you gain a little stage space! IT"S BROKEN! HAHAHA

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If you think dthrow, turn around dtilt, regrab is a gimmick,

That makes more sense. I assumed you meant something like hoping for a missed tech. Or Fthrow -> dtilt at the ledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...6XLl27U4&list=UUyWpghmjzCZFB94gD4_YBEw#t=150s

That was good until the fthrow -> fsmash. Had the DI on the Fthrow worked, it could have been 2nd jumped Dair'd if I recall. The sort of thing I am not entirely certain if one should continually practice going for hail marys. I do it all the time since I get behind a lot, but it still messes up a lot and lose out on the strong advantage I had.

 

[Bones0]

There's no way he could have DJ daired to beat fthrow fsmash. At least not at 70%. To beat fthrow fsmash is almost as fast as DJing before having to tech. lol

 

[Niko45]

random thought: has anyone ever considered turning around and zoning with bair instead of fair? Could there possibly be some benefit to this?

 

[AustinRC]

Yes Niko45 I've used it a bit when people try to hit your arms for sticking out and stuff like shiek's ftilt when you approach dash in dash back and bair sometimes works. It's honestly just super gimmicky though. Bair Oos when people cross up or attack your back is pretty good, I've been playing around with that lately and it's been working decently well.

 

[Tee ay eye]

What's pp's opinion on PM?

its an incredibly decent game

 

[Construct]

Austin, do you have any tips on getting your consistency for pivot tippers up? I'd be delighted to implement them... if I could just do them consistently

 

[AustinRC]

Do you pivot with the A button?

 

[Diakonos]

Regarding the CG thing, I think Leffen would be able to give a much more accurate description than me. He's the one who taught me. You want to really minimize utilt use, usually I only do one, just regrab uthrow if they DI away, and regrab or uair at mid% if they don't DI, and eventually uthrow uair fsmash tipper.

On FD it's like 0~90 guaranteed, and on other stages usually you just want to keep regrabbing until they end up on the platforms, or if you're on a platform already, you try to somehow make it end with the uair fsmash or just fsmash if they DI away from the stage.


Also from under a platform , uair --> DJ on the platform uair --> fsmash is a great , great tool. No need for fancy fair stuff when you can just do that and end the stock.


About CCing stuff though : They can't do that if they're still in their teching animation, so you need to make sure to aim during those last frames where they're vulnerable, because as soon as they go back to idle position then they will CC for sure, and then yeah it won't end up good.

Is there a video tutorial or something where I can learn the percents? Don't get me wrong, I usually make spacies pay for letting me grab them on FD, but it would be nice to have it down to a science.

By uair ->DJ on platform uair, do you mean that you throw them up there, throw an uair with a full hop, and fall with your DJ uair? I suppose in that case the second uair would be a soft hit, and they would barely be popped off. If this isn't what you mean, could you explain?

I'm not really sure about the utilt thing myself. To be honest it's something I've been struggling with lately is low% follow up after locking them down on a platform, usually when they're around 10~20%. Maybe waveland regrab would solve my problems... I'm not sure.

At low percentage I find that my spacies almost always find a way to get out. I think they ASDI it or whatever, if not CC. Waveland regrab is a problem if the tech in spot or CC it and use get-up attack. So annoying. I wonder if spacing a tipper fair from under the platform would solve our problems?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...6XLl27U4&list=UUyWpghmjzCZFB94gD4_YBEw#t=150s

Is there any way to learn to do this consistently?

By the way, the English here is remarkable for folks who live in Europe.

 

[S l o X]

marthhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Deleted member]

random thought: has anyone ever considered turning around and zoning with bair instead of fair? Could there possibly be some benefit to this?

the main benefit to bair is that it starts low and ends high, which is nice when you want to cover the standard low approach to marth's fair (think like peach dash attack). however, there's a few problems with bair. one is that when it hits low, you don't actually have the same range as you do with fair, so the area you want to cover isn't really covered anyway. to compensate for it, you can fade your bair so you have less of a hole, but then you're even less likely to hit the opponent and you're giving up stage area to do it. since it's not particularly threatening, your opponent has no reason to not try to pin you. then in a straight comparison, marth can only do 1 SH bair instead of 2 fairs, so it's easier to play around, and then you can't really convert it into a grab either. you don't really want to FJ it either because marth loses a lot of control by getting far away from any ground. usually it ends up being that the best thing to do is to stick to fair and movement to play around low approaches.

 

[knightpraetor]

Yes Niko45 I've used it a bit when people try to hit your arms for sticking out and stuff like shiek's ftilt when you approach dash in dash back and bair sometimes works. It's honestly just super gimmicky though. Bair Oos when people cross up or attack your back is pretty good, I've been playing around with that lately and it's been working decently well.

I like this a lot when they are boxed out at the edge and otherwise think it's pretty horrendous if the opponent has a decent run speed. So better vs peach, jiggs and the like

uptilt is not a guessing game. you space under the platform so that even if they shield drop they merely shield drop into more pressure. shield drop dair will just get them wrecked and shield drop bair will end up being out of range for a shine followup so you just grab it.

they will jump, believe!..some people try to wavedash out but that's just asking to get uptilt spiked

hit two pivot fsmashes today against jiggs..but they didn't tip..my marth is mad rusty...but still probably 70-80% as good as it used to be...
my peach..needs improvement..gotta get to a level where shroudedone isn't embarrassed to see me on the peach boards

i really hope PP goes marth some at apex. that would be awesome to watch.

 

[Bones0]

then in a straight comparison, marth can only do 1 SH bair instead of 2 fairs, so it's easier to play around

Two bairs would be pretty useless anyway. Bair-fair would be sick if it worked in a single SH, and you can still bair-DJ fair, but I try to avoid DJing whenever possible, so I wouldn't recommend that as an alternative either.

 

[knightpraetor]

random thoughts to myself today: what are my other options with marth besides taking tipper fsmash if fox/falco DI away towards center stage during my combo? i was trying to think of what i usually do because i took the fsmash today when i was playing marth and I know that isn't what i used to do when i played marth a lot. I know you can tipper fair and link into all sorts of stuff on smaller stages, but even with that i don't think i can link across the stage ..and i don't want just the 95% combo that m2k took vs leffen. I think damage is never marth's problem in matchups...getting the damage is of very little benefit overall.

maybe dash upair, weak upair, weak uptilt into chase and edgeguard?...the goal is to get them off the close side of the stage even though they are trying to avoid it..

i think marths need to focus on judging their combos by whether falco/fox was forced to take at least a 50/50 of dying during the combo

 

[Deleted member]

i think marths need to focus on judging their combos by whether falco/fox was forced to take at least a 50/50 of dying during the combo

or whether it even needs to be a combo.

you're on the right track. keep pushing the idea. develop it more.

 

[clowsui]

i really hope PP goes marth some at apex. that would be awesome to watch.

he will we've been talking about it a little

 

[Construct]

Do you pivot with the A button?

Yeah. Probably 70-80% of the time I just dash attack though.

 

[Bones0]

random thoughts to myself today: what are my other options with marth besides taking tipper fsmash if fox/falco DI away towards center stage during my combo? i was trying to think of what i usually do because i took the fsmash today when i was playing marth and I know that isn't what i used to do when i played marth a lot. I know you can tipper fair and link into all sorts of stuff on smaller stages, but even with that i don't think i can link across the stage ..and i don't want just the 95% combo that m2k took vs leffen. I think damage is never marth's problem in matchups...getting the damage is of very little benefit overall.

maybe dash upair, weak upair, weak uptilt into chase and edgeguard?...the goal is to get them off the close side of the stage even though they are trying to avoid it..

i think marths need to focus on judging their combos by whether falco/fox was forced to take at least a 50/50 of dying during the combo

What move are they DIing to the center, is this FD or PS, and what percent are we talking? If it's off an uthrow, then I would just sort of go back to what I was saying earlier and stick to f/dthrow so they are off stage. No spacie that's half-decent vs. Marth will ever DI off stage from a uthrow at comboable %s. If you clipped them on a side plat with a uair and they DI so that they end up right below the top plat, then idk what else you can do besides going for an fsmash/nair to send them off stage, or a fair to try and link into something. Some crazier ideas I just thought of that you might want to mess around with:
- dash into a FH side-B, and somehow link into the second/third hit or a uair or an up-B; maybe reversing the side-B could let you work with their DI somehow instead of going against it
- sour spot reverse bair instead of fair, and then the fact that you turn around would let you bair them again to send them off (which will send them further than if you had to just double fair or nair)
-

 

[AustinRC]

There's your problem Construct, you can pivot with the C-Stick. It makes pivoting smashes much easier.

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, pivoting with c-stick is gdlk.

 

[Bones0]

I use A. >.>

 

[Mahie]

Can anyone do pivot dtilt ? Is that even feasible ? I tried a couple times last time I got to play but I didn't manage to get it out. I can do pivot fsmash fairly well, and ftilt from time to time, but dtilt feels impossible.


@Diakonos : on FD it's like

vs Falco

1. [0;18%] Uthrow --> Uthrow. Do not move, if they DI behind you, just turn around and regrab.
2. Circa 19% Hardest part of the CG. Most of them will want to try and go for the No DI --> Shine escape, and that's why you need to start pivot grabbing. The first one @19% requires to be really fast.
3. >20% Start pummeling exactly once each time you grab.
4. Circa 35% That's when you want to land exactly one utilt. If they DI it properly behind you, I find it difficult to keep the combo going at higher %s. It's fine at 35%, though, so if they don't DI the uthrow, by all means go for it, it'll also help reaching the final part of the CG more easily.
5. [40%;70%] If they DI away, regrab. If they don't DI, go for uair regrab. It might be tricky to land that at 40, but if you did utilt at 35 you won't have to bother with it.
6. >70% At that point you want to go uthrow --> uair --> (uair) --> tipper fsmash. I'm not sure when the second uair offers them too much leeway, but I usually try to use two of them before my tipper. Sometimes they will DI the second one and it's annoying to tipper fsmash then (impossible even), so I'm not sure when exactly it stops working.

So yeah that's about it in a nutshell. Fox is similar but is lighter, so his numbers will be lower than these. I don't have enough experience practicing it against him though, so I can't give you anything accurate, but it still feels much easier to pull it off on Fox than Falco.

 

[Beat!]

^To add on to that, always delay the uair(s) in that combo as much as possible. Doing them right after jumping will sometimes let the spacie break out of an otherwise guaranteed 0-110 (approximately) combo that ends with a tipper.

 

[AustinRC]

There are ways to consistantly pivot dtilt/ utilt but it's really dumb. Before you plug your controller in lightly hold either up or down. It's honestly not worth it.

 

[Bones0]

I just tap the C-stick lightly to do pivot tilts.

 

[Mahie]

I just tap the C-stick lightly to do pivot tilts.

You can tilt with the Cstick... ?

 

[Metal Reeper]

Trololololololo
Bones too good

 

[AustinRC]

Bones0 is correct, you have to hold either A or Z though. Sometimes you'll get grab if you hold Z though.

 

[knightpraetor]

What move are they DIing to the center, is this FD or PS, and what percent are we talking? If it's off an uthrow, then I would just sort of go back to what I was saying earlier and stick to f/dthrow so they are off stage. No spacie that's half-decent vs. Marth will ever DI off stage from a uthrow at comboable %s. If you clipped them on a side plat with a uair and they DI so that they end up right below the top plat, then idk what else you can do besides going for an fsmash/nair to send them off stage, or a fair to try and link into something. Some crazier ideas I just thought of that you might want to mess around with:
- dash into a FH side-B, and somehow link into the second/third hit or a uair or an up-B; maybe reversing the side-B could let you work with their DI somehow instead of going against it
- sour spot reverse bair instead of fair, and then the fact that you turn around would let you bair them again to send them off (which will send them further than if you had to just double fair or nair)
-

fthrow and dthrow are both garbage from many positions on stage...you are not always going to get grabs near the edge.. any falco/fox worth his salt knows how to DI towards the edge to get the bounce to the ledge.

also those dtilt regrabs are only guaranteed on fox (quoting PP here, who said m2k said so), so vs falco i dislike relying on them. though at mid-high percent it's not bad.

also, falco/fox players DI away all the time to avoid fthrow dtilt at the ledge. mahone's falco got killed while playing my marth 3 times today for DIing offstage..he died 9 times for DIing on stage. I don't know what you want of the poor man.

Anyway the Side b idea isn't too poor, but i'm guessing i will just work on spacings for sending people to the side platforms to tech.

 

[~Twitch~]

geez the marth boards are awesome lately.

this sucks. i don't want marth to become a popular character again. i hate him enough as an unpopular char.

 

[AustinRC]

Whatever Twitch, Marth is a monster. His meta game is evolving and is growing in popularity you can not stop it! ;D

 

[Deleted member]

What move are they DIing to the center, is this FD or PS, and what percent are we talking? If it's off an uthrow, then I would just sort of go back to what I was saying earlier and stick to f/dthrow so they are off stage. No spacie that's half-decent vs. Marth will ever DI off stage from a uthrow at comboable %s. If you clipped them on a side plat with a uair and they DI so that they end up right below the top plat, then idk what else you can do besides going for an fsmash/nair to send them off stage, or a fair to try and link into something. Some crazier ideas I just thought of that you might want to mess around with:
- dash into a FH side-B, and somehow link into the second/third hit or a uair or an up-B; maybe reversing the side-B could let you work with their DI somehow instead of going against it
- sour spot reverse bair instead of fair, and then the fact that you turn around would let you bair them again to send them off (which will send them further than if you had to just double fair or nair)
-

i have no idea what you're talking about. not even a little bit.

why does everything have to end off-stage?

 

[Bones0]

i have no idea what you're talking about. not even a little bit.

why does everything have to end off-stage?

This should shed some light.

 

[Mahone]

INTERCEPTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT





































































#yolo

 

[Deleted member]

This should shed some light.

condescending and wrong.

it's like you're gregory house but only for 10-15 minutes into the episode.

"tests take time, treatment's quicker" only works when you're correct.

 

[Anand]

This should shed some light.

Hahaha, I clicked to reply to this because it was so great (and also wanted to send it to Mahone, in case he hadn't seen it), and then I saw Mahone's post on my reply-compose screen!

 

[Mahone]

condescending and wrong.

ROFFFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


#irony

 

[Battlecow]

Yo real talk the first time I read that over I thought it was someone impersonating umbreon and on his account and like giving a synopsis of a standard umbreon post

 

[Deleted member]

oh you're right, you should just forward throw them off the edge. that will get you real far against better players.

 

[Mahone]

i will agree that vs non fastfallers upthrow is almost always better than fthrow, but throwing fastfallers off the stage is really good, especially if ur willing to try to run-off-dair-on their jump to grab the ledge

ofc this is risky cuz people like falco can dair on and completely reverse, but one cool thing i saw my friend eric do is throw falco off the stage and then do a sh dair (i think he was always facing towards the stage and hit with the back of dair if that matters) and it completely spiked my attempt to dair back onto the stage while not having the ridiculous lag of counter

but i do have to say that vs peach upthrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fthrow, i cant imagine why ud ever fthrow