Not doing anything about mii

[Auramaniji]

Everyone has heard of Miis in smash4, being infamous for helicopter kicks and one-inch punches. On the other side of the coin however, Mii isn't even being
played that much.

However, here you have a guy that is pushing a character to it's limit. Dapuffster even though he might lose it all, he's still going strong. No matter what the community thinks about him and what he does. He's not looking for anything of fame, he wants to properly educate you about Miis so other people could use them.

Just that one thing.
And the community just sits there like a childern picking their noises, screaming "la la la, I can't hear you! Me who?".

But oh, the instant when someone gets the helicopter kick to the face and dies...The community just overreacts and throws a tantrum all over.

We of the smash 4 competitive community are much better than this. I know that for a fact. So i'm asking this forum a simple question, why are we still not doing anything to legalize miis?

I have an obvious solution.
Let the game decide to an extent.
Since miis are allowed without customs on or off and still retain their custom moves, they must be allowed. To truly have a custom fight with a mii according to the game, would be to fight a mii with equipment.
So for my solution, Miis should be universal allowed in custom or non custom tournaments but with no equipment, and be fully customizable in size and attire.
These sizes should fall into three main categories based on frame data:
Tiny
Medium
Large
And this does not require the mii to be absolutely like the size, but must fall into one category.

Ex: A skinny medium mii

Lastly, the importing of homemade miis can easily be done by importing fighters by 3DS or even a qr code. If someone wanted to simply add a mii to a tourament, he or she could send a message to the TO or just even add it via mii maker.
After that, mii fighter creation would be as good as done.

(However for time constraints
one might not choose a costume.)

I really think you might find this solution to be practical and easy to work with.
Thank you for reading.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Out of all characters to flop hard at EVO, I think Mii Brawler just about flopped the hardest. A lot of people went for the small Brawler in early rounds, and most of them washed out way earlier than would be expected had they used other characters. It seems clear now that none of the Miis are even top characters so, regardless of what we do, it shouldn't be based around irrational fears that they are somehow exceptionally powerful characters.

 

[Doruge]

Yep. There's pretty much 0 reason to limit Miis at this point. If mii sizes prove to be an issue then restricting them to default size is an acceptable compromise, but forcing them into 1111 is nonsensical.

 

[LightLV]

What everyone else said. I think they've been exposed as sub-great picks. Whatever would-be advantage didn't help them escape EVO pools, so the chance they have some kind of hidden knife in their underpants is pretty low at this point. I see no reason to ban them.

 

[Auramaniji]

Out of all characters to flop hard at EVO, I think Mii Brawler just about flopped the hardest. A lot of people went for the small Brawler in early rounds, and most of them washed out way earlier than would be expected had they used other characters. It seems clear now that none of the Miis are even top characters so, regardless of what we do, it shouldn't be based around irrational fears that they are somehow exceptionally powerful characters.

I totally agree. We shouldn't base mii around irrational fears, they definitely aren't that strong.

What everyone else said. I think they've been exposed as sub-great picks. Whatever would-be advantage didn't help them escape EVO pools, so the chance they have some kind of hidden knife in their underpants is pretty low at this point. I see no reason to ban them.

The only advantage was the fair to Helicopter Kick to end a stock at 40% with tiny brawler.
Although dapuffster made it out of evo pools, he was twarted by manny in the top 32. He placed 13th overall.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I'm with you that miis should be able to be used freely even in customs off. That's what the game allows, and as long as they aren't too broken (which they never seemed to completely dominate even with helicopter kick), I don't see an issue with it.

That being said, I would limit it to if a person wants to use a mii that's not already loaded on the Wii u during the tournament, the only way that they can do so is through 3ds import. Going out of the game to go into mii maker is rough because of sm4sh's insane loading times.

Ultimately I'd just like to see some of my goofy characters allowed at Xanadu, especially since I'm prob never gonna be a threat with any character. Goku, Elsa, and Clarence ftw

 

[Rhydstone]

Out of all miis, brawler is the one who has created most of the problems. The way I see it, helicopter kick is comparable to boost kick. Boost kick killing off the top, helicopter killing horizontally. Both can be beaten with di mixups, anti-juggle moves etc. These strings are done easily with tiny brawler. If we need to, we can limit size or just leave it a defualt. Just because of one custom move for one of the mii's doesn't mean all should be restricted. Also making different mii's for each system can be added to the process of unlocking characters, stages etc.

After evo almost everyone will be banning customs. I don't want this to include mii fighters

 

[Hippieslayer]

80% of the people who die to helicopter kick deserve it for not knowing the matchup. Like seriously stay central, and when you're by the ledge or close to it don't try to fight back, make it your number one priority to get the hell out of there lol. When recovering high try not to end up meeting mii brawler on the way down in a position where helicopter kick will kill. Do that and the character is not in the least problematic, at least not in default size. Tiny Brawler seems kinda dope, but I ain't seen no one able to play tiny well enough to fully utilize its extreme mobility and all the combos and stuff it has even if helicopter kick is not considered.

 

[san.]

Out of all characters to flop hard at EVO, I think Mii Brawler just about flopped the hardest. A lot of people went for the small Brawler in early rounds, and most of them washed out way earlier than would be expected had they used other characters. It seems clear now that none of the Miis are even top characters so, regardless of what we do, it shouldn't be based around irrational fears that they are somehow exceptionally powerful characters.

I'm no Brawler main, but from my short experience dabbling with him, I definitely feel that 25/0 and even 50/0 has some edge over 0/0 in many situations. The problem with Tiny Brawler is that the range is so short that he has to deal with jabs and grabs OoS, while taller versions will deal more against tilts and can directly combat aerials better. I kept thinking "if only his Mii was a bit taller" when looking at puffster on stream. Hard for me to see 0/0 as optimal in a lot of MUs, especially seeing how hard he flopped at Evo.

Now that people are posting some Mii Frame data, it isn't even that bad even with the smallest. Helicopter kick/Piston punch combos are the biggest worry, but can be handled with a ban on the Brawler size variation. However, that transfers to standard ban-worthiness more than all the other subjectivity surrounding Miis the last few months.

 

[Raijinken]

I run 25/0 Brawler and like his range choices a lot more than 0/0.

But regardless, I think Miis should stay legal. Even if tournament logistics will probably not allow me to bring in my Super Robot Wars characters or Little Drac.

 

[Balgorxz]

people forcing 1-1-1-1 miis just wanted them banned, miis should be allowed to have their complete movesets in all tournaments

 

[Illuminose]

I'm (relatively) ok with all customs being allowed for Miis if size is not customizable.

 

[LightLV]

I totally agree. We shouldn't base mii around irrational fears, they definitely aren't that strong.


The only advantage was the fair to Helicopter Kick to end a stock at 40% with tiny brawler.
Although dapuffster made it out of evo pools, he was twarted by manny in the top 32. He placed 13th overall.

13th is quite significant. But if he was the only one...yeah, i think the fear mongering can cease.

 

[RWB]

13th is quite significant. But if he was the only one...yeah, i think the fear mongering can cease.

Also significant is Nietono going Tiny Brawler and drowning in pools against TearBear's Falcon.

 

[Dooms]

Tiny brawler has clear answers is the thing. Have you tried fighting against a Luigi as Mii Brawler? Villager creates a similar scenario, and Mario absolutely screws over any attempt of brawler recovering (unless the brawler just confuses the hell out of you with his recovery, which is possible but unrealistic). Rosalina is another character that can do very well (get brawler off stage and he's kinda screwed while brawler can kill a little earlier but Luma can also help her out of things). Also, most characters with a consistent spike and/or good range can give him issue if they can kill. Just because brawler does well against Sheik doesn't mean that he's broken. :|

I'm in an area where people legitimately think "Mii Fighters are the exact same as default fighters. They should be locked into 1111 medium size!!!" or even worse "Mii Fighters are all customs, so they're banned altogether!", which is... ugh. Banning customs is one thing, but after seeing the performances of myself and other brawlers, very few have taken games/sets off of players that are realistically/indisputably better than them.

Also, removing swordfighter and gunner from the game just because people hate brawler is honestly very stupid. Like, limit brawler to default size all you want, but the other two need all of the help they can get. Basing what they get off of something that some people view as unbeatable is simply idiotic imo.

I'm going to start pushing non-1111 miis at tournaments, because the more I think about it, the more I realize that forcing mii fighters into a default set just because everyone else has one is stupid. Why do people think this is a good idea?

 

[RWB]

Tiny brawler has clear answers is thing. Have you tried fighting against a Luigi as Mii Brawler? Villager creates a similar scenario, and Mario absolutely screws over any attempt of brawler recovering (unless the brawler just confuses the hell out of you with his recovery, which is possible but unrealistic). Rosalina is another character that can do very well (get brawler off stage and he's kinda screwed while brawler can kill a little earlier but Luma can also help her out of things). Also, most characters with a consistent spike and/or good range can give him issue if they can kill. Just because brawler does well against Sheik doesn't mean that he's broken. :|

I'm in an area where people legitimately think "Mii Fighters are the exact same as default fighters. They should be locked into 1111 medium size!!!" or even worse "Mii Fighters are all customs, so they're banned altogether!", which is... ugh. Banning customs is one thing, but after seeing the performances of other brawlers, very few have taken games/sets off of players that are realistically/indisputably better than them.

Also, removing swordfighter and gunner from the game just because people hate brawler is honestly very stupid. Like, limit brawler to default size all you want, but the other two need all of the help they can get. Basing what they get off of something that some people view as unbeatable is simply idiotic imo.

I'm going to start pushing non-1111 miis at tournaments, because the more I think about it, the more I realize that forcing mii fighters into a default set just because everyone else has one is stupid. Why do people think this is a good idea?

Thank you for taking your time to do this.

 

[T0MMY]

I've been fighting for Mii liberation since day 2 (day 1 was me saying it was OK for the TO's to ban Mii due to their complete ignorance of the character and gave them a day to analyze to see how obvious it was there were no problems).

I feel like Customs are on their way out and Mii fighters may be dragged down with those same custom zealots who were pulling the Mii hostage strategy to get more on their "side".

Until I can play whatever height/weight with any move set the game allows with Custom Fighter ON or OFF there's no way I can take the competitive SSB4 events seriously as a Mii main.

The character transfer takes less than a minute - the character is not broken - I'm not a scrub.

Pretty simple.

 

[Auramaniji]

I've been fighting for Mii liberation since day 2 (day 1 was me saying it was OK for the TO's to ban Mii due to their complete ignorance of the character and gave them a day to analyze to see how obvious it was there were no problems).

I feel like Customs are on their way out and Mii fighters may be dragged down with those same custom zealots who were pulling the Mii hostage strategy to get more on their "side".

Until I can play whatever height/weight with any move set the game allows with Custom Fighter ON or OFF there's no way I can take the competitive SSB4 events seriously as a Mii main.

The character transfer takes less than a minute - the character is not broken - I'm not a scrub.

Pretty simple.

You never were a mii main to begin with if you allowed them to be banned like that. If you truely believe that miis will be dragged down by these "custom zealots" then you've already given up far before me.
(Excuse me if I may have been rude, but those are my thoughts.)

 

[Dooms]

You never were a mii main to begin with if you allowed them to be banned like that. If you truely believe that miis will be dragged down by these "custom zealots" then you've already given up far before me.
(Excuse me if I may have been rude, but those are my thoughts.)

People change their minds and people pick up/drop characters. It happens. Don't exclude people just because they don't agree with you from the start.

However, this isn't the thread for that.

 

[T0MMY]

You never were a mii main to begin with if you allowed them to be banned like that. If you truely believe that miis will be dragged down by these "custom zealots" then you've already given up far before me.
(Excuse me if I may have been rude, but those are my thoughts.)

lol, wasn't anything like that.
If it weren't for me then Mii would have been banned day 1 to present - I even got a petition going to unban them in Washington.
Being OK with a Mii ban day 1 was literally the first day the game came out, literally. Like I gave TO's one day after the game was released before I would be ready to Piston Punched some sense into them.

I have been a Mii main since Japanese 3DS release.
Hence my tag "t0mMii"

 

[Rashyboy05]

I case if someone decides to use random game modes as arguments as to why Mii must stick to '1111'. I think For Glory, the actual competitive in-game mode, just says it all. Miis are custom. I'd be fine if Miis are allowed to use their other sets rather than '1111' in Customs Off tournies but if Mii are to be restricted to just '1111' sets then it's best to just ban them in general since they're unusable in my experience.

 

[NextPain]

L E G E A L I Z E C U S T O M S M I I S

 

[Peppermint1201]

in my opinion, the problem is that people are viewing the miis' second and third specials as "customs," but this is not the case. as we can see, the game allows miis' entire movesets EVEN WHEN THE CUSTOMS BUTTON IS SET TO 'OFF.' however, miis' second and third specials are not custom moves; they are simply their second and third sets of specials. miis have no standard for defaultness, so it is strange and silly to restrict them. and, as we obviously saw at EVO, there is absolutely no reason to ban them or even just ban certain permutations of Brawler. besides, miis do not fit the normal model for customs in that their second and third specials are edits of their first special move. their second and third special moves are completely different, bearing no similarities the way normal customs do.

 

[2ndComing]

I case if someone decides to use random game modes as arguments as to why Mii must stick to '1111'. I think For Glory, the actual competitive in-game mode, just says it all. Miis are custom. I'd be fine if Miis are allowed to use their other sets rather than '1111' in Customs Off tournies but if Mii are to be restricted to just '1111' sets then it's best to just ban them in general since they're unusable in my experience.

The reason why is because Mii's can be used in an offensive manner and Sakurai doesn't want to have Hitler, Pingas and other crud Mii creations the internet have thought up

It has nothing to do with them being customs honestly

 

[Auramaniji]

lol, wasn't anything like that.
If it weren't for me then Mii would have been banned day 1 to present - I even got a petition going to unban them in Washington.
Being OK with a Mii ban day 1 was literally the first day the game came out, literally. Like I gave TO's one day after the game was released before I would be ready to Piston Punched some sense into them.

I have been a Mii main since Japanese 3DS release.
Hence my tag "t0mMii"

Oh I misread what you said. Sorry about that!

 

[Rashyboy05]

The reason why is because Mii's can be used in an offensive manner and Sakurai doesn't want to have Hitler, Pingas and other crud Mii creations the internet have thought up

It has nothing to do with them being customs honestly

I'd be fine with that reasoning if they also allowed customs for other characters to be on For Glory but they didn't so... Yes, customs do have something for Miis to be unusable on For Glory.

 

[WakerofWinds]

I'd be fine with that reasoning if they also allowed customs for other characters to be on For Glory but they didn't so... Yes, customs do have something for Miis to be unusable on For Glory.

Even if you're against customs, for glory certainly shouldn't be the deciding factor here. When you open up "smash," customs are OFF. Despite customs being off, Mii's can use all of their moves.

 

[Rashyboy05]

Even if you're against customs, for glory certainly shouldn't be the deciding factor here. When you open up "smash," customs are OFF. Despite customs being off, Mii's can use all of their moves.

I don't remember me saying that I'm against customs in fact I support customs and would love to see more custom tournaments. Anyway, I'm simply using For Glory as an argument because whenever a topic about whether Miis should use their sets other than '1111' or not. A user, whose name I seriously couldn't remember as of right now, would use random game modes like event mode of all things as an argument on why Miis must use their '1111' sets on customs-off tournies which is pretty dumb imo.

 

[Dooms]

I case if someone decides to use random game modes as arguments as to why Mii must stick to '1111'. I think For Glory, the actual competitive in-game mode, just says it all. Miis are custom. I'd be fine if Miis are allowed to use their other sets rather than '1111' in Customs Off tournies but if Mii are to be restricted to just '1111' sets then it's best to just ban them in general since they're unusable in my experience.

Random game modes shouldn't be defining mii's in the first place honestly. The only one that separates them by movesets is like.... Smash Tour, but they don't even allow mii fighters, right?

If people were following for glory, mii's would be banned. Forcing Mii's into 1111 is literally trying to regulate them when there is no reason to aside from "Other characters (that were balanced around their default moveset) don't have access to their customs, so Mii's shouldn't, either."

I know you aren't thinking similar to this, but we should be focused on figuring out how to successfully shut these arguments down imo, since they're pretty common points that are made.

 

[T0MMY]

Oh I misread what you said. Sorry about that!

It's all good, but I was hoping I could be more recognizable in the Mii community considering I am the one who is on a patrol-like mobility on Smashboards regarding rulings surrounding Mii. I jokingly referred to my fight for freeing the Mii fighters as "Find Mii" after the Street Plaza game.

I won't be happy until TO's reduce their options to two choices: 1) Allow Mii to their fullest potential, 2) For Glory, Mii banned outright.

The second option is viable and reasonably acceptable since For Glory is such a prevalent ruleset I can understand wanting to emulate it (though I am against a Mii ban).

Anything outside these two choices I'd approach with suspect of "scrubbery" since limiting the Mii ("1111" and "default" height/weight type limiations) has no competitive basis.

we should be focused on figuring out how to successfully shut these arguments down imo, since they're pretty common points that are made.

You guys had better be thankful I am a Mii main - you got a logician on your side, arguments are my specialty!
The strongest argument we have is to side with facts, observable reality, and self-evident facts. There is absolutely NOTHING stopping Mii from being fully exploitable in competitive play and Competitive Philosophy DEMANDS that this be the standard of tournaments (unless proven to be "broken").

Just remember, we are on the "winning" side of the argument - there must be reason to ban/limit ANY CHARACTER before a ruling is to be carried out. We don't have to prove anything, the ones making the claim must prove their argument.
Read my Guide "Competitive Philosophy for Super Smash Bros." and David Sirlin's Playing to Win for more detailed info!

 

[2ndComing]

I'd be fine with that reasoning if they also allowed customs for other characters to be on For Glory but they didn't so... Yes, customs do have something for Miis to be unusable on For Glory.

uh... no... that is not the reasoning why...

Its pretty obvious because they didn't balance them too well and didn't want the risk of people having to deal with crazy moves like Trip Villager or Hammer Sonic in Wifi.

Miis have nothing to do with customs considering when you go the local mode and turn customs off they keep their movesets so using For Glory as an excuse is not appropriate considering we make the ruleset not Nintendo

Also For Glory is not a good representation of competitive Smash 4

 

[Balgorxz]

miis also get patched every patch, even the devs recognize them as competitive characters

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Just throwing in my two cents here, I'm not a competitive player but it really seems to be the option that makes the most sense from what I can see.

In a customs ON setting, obviously any moveset is fine, just like any other character. I can understand possibly limiting allowed sizes to medium/medium, as it is a level of customization not allowed to any of the other characters, but I don't particularly care either way.

In customs OFF, I really do think Miis should be allowed. With that said, saying that they should still be able to pick custom moves when no other character is allowed to is like saying that because you don't think a character is good as-is, they should be given a handicap. I love playing brawler, but just live with 1111 like every other character has to. Sizes are again a separate issue, but in this setting I'd argue either a few pre-made size options or just medium/medium.

 

[neohopeSTF]

When it comes to Mii I feel like Meduim weight should be standard (or whatever weight the guest miis are).

 

[WritersBlah]

In customs OFF, I really do think Miis should be allowed. With that said, saying that they should still be able to pick custom moves when no other character is allowed to is like saying that because you don't think a character is good as-is, they should be given a handicap. I love playing brawler, but just live with 1111 like every other character has to. Sizes are again a separate issue, but in this setting I'd argue either a few pre-made size options or just medium/medium.

So what you're saying is we should just accept Mii Fighters as Smash 4's equivalent of Pichu? Or Brawl's Hyrule tier? I mean, I guess we could do that, but I feel like the question is if they have the potential to be much better, why would we want that? I understand this is a slippery slope argument, as Palutena is in a really similar situation, and then, "Oh, so now only Mii Fighters and Palutena can have customs? That's not fair to everyone else," and then that's why you can't remove the topic of Mii Fighters from the topic of custom moves. It is purposefully nerfing a character just to avoid a slippery slope. Now whether you think that's unjustified, a necessary evil, or outright warranted, that's your prerogative.

 

[Dooms]

Just throwing in my two cents here, I'm not a competitive player but it really seems to be the option that makes the most sense from what I can see.

In a customs ON setting, obviously any moveset is fine, just like any other character. I can understand possibly limiting allowed sizes to medium/medium, as it is a level of customization not allowed to any of the other characters, but I don't particularly care either way.

In customs OFF, I really do think Miis should be allowed. With that said, saying that they should still be able to pick custom moves when no other character is allowed to is like saying that because you don't think a character is good as-is, they should be given a handicap. I love playing brawler, but just live with 1111 like every other character has to. Sizes are again a separate issue, but in this setting I'd argue either a few pre-made size options

The argument here is that you're forcing mii fighters into a default that they don't have. The game doesn't give mii fighters moves to start off with. They simply don't have a default, and the smash community is basically forcing them into a nerfed default because they're trying to compare them to other characters. Other characters aren't forced into a nerfed community created, they're forced into the default given to them by the game in the "customs off" menu.

I agree with T0mmy that people should be proving why they're broken versus just saying they're just like the other characters when they're not, but when you're one of two/three people arguing for customs and the only person arguing for mii legality in custom banned in your community, I just can't see that being the case. :/ if we can't get the trend started in smaller communities, having it happen as a whole seems unrealistic.

 

[Auramaniji]

Just throwing in my two cents here, I'm not a competitive player but it really seems to be the option that makes the most sense from what I can see.

In a customs ON setting, obviously any moveset is fine, just like any other character. I can understand possibly limiting allowed sizes to medium/medium, as it is a level of customization not allowed to any of the other characters, but I don't particularly care either way.

In customs OFF, I really do think Miis should be allowed. With that said, saying that they should still be able to pick custom moves when no other character is allowed to is like saying that because you don't think a character is good as-is, they should be given a handicap. I love playing brawler, but just live with 1111 like every other character has to. Sizes are again a separate issue, but in this setting I'd argue either a few pre-made size options or just medium/medium.

I love brawler as much as you, in fact I composed this post because of the character alone. However you must be crazy when saying such a thing. His only kill opitions are his dash attacks, and his side b. Other than that, you risk too much from trying to use a smash to KO your oppenent because of default's extra frames on shield.
(He doesn't even have a kill throw)
To make matters even worse, the recovery combination is the worst by far in the game. With soaring axe kick working like ike's ether, and onsalught a being a poor man's burning drop kick. With these tools they only offer limited range in the air to connect with the ledge or opponent. The saving grace of default (his range of normals, shotput, spacing opportunities) far outweighs his negatives.

 

[Unknownkid]

As long as Brawler is not allowed to use Tiny Size format, I believe we are good. Even Dapuffster believes that the Tiny Size is "********" and unfaithful players switch to Tiny Brawler because of his "janky" potential. Not like Brawler needs the mobile benefits to be viable compared to Swordfighter or Gunner.

 

[Rhydstone]

As long as Brawler is not allowed to use Tiny Size format, I believe we are good. Even Dapuffster believes that the Tiny Size is "********" and unfaithful players switch to Tiny Brawler because of his "janky" potential. Not like Brawler needs the mobile benefits to be viable compared to Swordfighter or Gunner.

I completely agree. Default brawler weight/size does have a good amount of potential, he has a good combination of movement and power. Swordfighter and gunner are not so lucky, they need modified weight/size to be viable. I feel having special moves is more important than size, but the size is also very important. I agree tiny brawler is pretty stupid, but we should simply restrict size. For example size be only from 25/25 to 100/100. It's just an idea.

Also this has been pretty one sided, can we get anti mii opinions here?

 

[Rashyboy05]

uh... no... that is not the reasoning why...

Its pretty obvious because they didn't balance them too well and didn't want the risk of people having to deal with crazy moves like Trip Villager or Hammer Sonic in Wifi.

Miis have nothing to do with customs considering when you go the local mode and turn customs off they keep their movesets so using For Glory as an excuse is not appropriate considering we make the ruleset not Nintendo

Also For Glory is not a good representation of competitive Smash 4

Mii by design are custom made characters. You choose the movesets, size, how it looks like, gender, etc. Also, if you read my posts above, I just used For Glory as an argument since another user in this forum, still forgot his name, uses random in game modes like event modes as a reason as to why Miis must use their '1111' sets. Also, if people complain about dealing with custom moves in For Glory then chances of Nintendo patching is much, much higher, just sayin'.