Newbie 24 - SMT: Devil Survivor LAW IS VICTORIOUS #1 CHAOS LOSES AHAHAHAH

[pawndidater2]

Yes, I am picking up suspicious activity from you. How is that off? Who else could I 'bring up' instead of you? Why NOT you? Is there something I missed?

Off in that it feels like you're shifting attention onto me.

 

[ranmaru]

And? I'm trying to find mafia, that's what you do. Is this suspicious to you? I also don't see how the confirm thing is suspicious to you. I mentioned something about that, you never really thought it was odd to ask it. I also feel that GaGa has been paranoid, yet Townies do get paranoid of nk's as well. This isn't a good lead to go off though, as it can go either way. I'm fine with GaGa because his thoughts justified his actions, and you never really looked into that actually. I don't think you really care about what GaGa was doing, you are just trying to implicate him when you are being cornered.

 

[ranmaru]

Premise of Mafia:

Spoiler

Premise

The premise of the game is simple. At it's core, there is a town, and usually there has been a killing during the night, which riles the town up and they start discussing, questioning, and even lynching to actually get some progress going in finding the criminals who did the killing. If there isn't a pre-game kill which would have riled them, then pretend there was, or just assume there is Mafia (Bad guys) in the town that we are looking for as Town (The Good guys).

Game wise, everyone will get their role sent to them privately, and is usually randomized, so everyone has an opportunity to randomly aqcuire a role they may like, or may not. The good guys (Town) won't know who the other Towns-Men are, because they only know their own alignment. The bad guys know who the other bad guys are (if there are more than one) because that way they can work together to discuss plans/strategies to hide from the town and destroy them.

Now then. The Town usually wake up, and discuss/vote/lynch during the day. Discussion involves who people find suspicious, and questioning those they find suspicious, and even voting their suspicions. Games start during the day, usually in normal setups. So expect to start during day. Then, after a lynch is set, night falls, and the Townies go to sleep, while Power Roles and The Mafia will be out at night. The Mafia stay up at night to kill the Townsmen, one by one. (One per night) Power roles stay up to find information about the whole town in general, depending on what they can do. Power roles in my opinion, should not lie just because they are a power role. Here is an example of how lying can go wrong:

Mafia Newbie 10:
#635
#638
#639

You shouldn't really read any further unless you want to confuse yourself. I'll give a summary. Basically, Vanderzant was town. I was the mafia. Third post shows Acrostic's reasoning for believing why Vanderzant may have been scum, yet, this lie cost Town the game. Why? Because Glyph came in, and put the final vote on Vanderzant giving scum the game. So please, don't lie as town. Even as a power role.

RVS

We have started what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).

STANDARDS

I have standards, but I won't tell you them. You know what Town (The good guys) has to do, and what Mafia (The bad guys) want to do. You act accordingly to the role you were given, and I'll judge if your play is satisfactory. Noobytownscumguy: "But wait, ... I don't know. ; _ ;" That's fine, just check the rest of this post!

LYNCHING

First, let's count how much people there are. There are 9 people, which means the majority is half that number plus 1. So 9 alive, 5 to lynch. What "5 to lynch" means, is 5 individual votes on one person, to lynch. The sole purpose for Townies to be awake, is to find The Mafia (The bad guys), via lynching. That's the power of the Townies, while the power of The Mafia is killing one person per night. This is why, voting is important. Usually, you should use your votes on the people you believe are suspicious, and along with the reason you believe so. This way, other townies can be able to see your point of view with why you believe that person to be The Mafia, and may also vote along with you. Keep in mind that The Mafia may also vote along with you to have the sense of belonging to the town as well. This may be confusing, just remember that The Mafia's sole purpose is to survive, even with one sole member, so voting their own Mafia Member would benefit them in the long run if it would give them Town Credit.

Yadda yadda yadda, and blam. Somehow, you have 3 votes on scummymctowndude. The pressure is on him, and now he is working his butt off to defend himself. It is in town's best benefit to hear him out, because you may have thought his mindset was a Mafia Mindset, yet may have been a Town Mindset in which was thought in a different angle. Town should be able to explain their mindset's easily, since Town usually don't lie. They should always have reasons for why they do things. If they don't, (and are Town), then they should try better next time.

Now, someone else votes along (with reason) and puts 4/5 votes on that person. He is most likely getting lynched. He just got put at L-1, which means "1 vote to lynch". Just think of it as "Lynch -1" when Lynch = 5, and it's at 4. Uh oh. It's time to claim.

CLAIM and HAMMERS

What should one do at L-1? Claim. Should people hammer after someone claims? NO! You read the claim and think before doing so, same as you look both ways before crossing the street. You take the claim with caution. Claim your role, and flavor.

Townmcscumdude: I'm Willy Wonka, Town Inventer.
Situation: Townies think, and might let him live since he can be useful. Mafia might kill him at night, so would be ok to let him be and get another chance to lynch someone else.

Townmcscumdude: I'm **** Dastardly, Vanilla Townie.
Situation: It's A-Ok to go ahead with lynching him because he isn't a power role, may be lying about his role (since Vanilla Townie is easy to claim as Mafia) and Mafia now won't have a reason to guess at his role nor kill him. The 5th vote would be the HAMMER.





COUNTER CLAIMING

Townmcscumdude: I'm Alladin, Town Cop.
Situation: Ok, now this guy claims a role which should be confirmed town. What should town do? They wait for anyone else to Counter Claim this person, or have everyone say "Not Cop" to confirm that this person is a Legit Cop. Why should one wait for a Counter Claim? This person may be mafia trying to lure the Power Role out. And guess what? If this person is Mafia, and you are the Town Cop (or whatever role that person is claiming to be), that person is lying and YOU SHOULD COME OUT to grant him death. No hiding to get more confirmations of reads. Example of a person hiding as cop:

Bad Idea Mafia 4:
#1643

This is just the end game, yelling at the person who didn't counter claim scum. It was a scum win because of this. So remember, if someone claims YOUR ROLE, you come out. An eye for an eye. 1 for 1. 1 for 1's don't work in LoL, but here they do. Why? I'll talk about that in the next section.

ADVANTAGES OF TOWN AND MAFIA

Generally, The Town have the advantage in numbers, yet they don't know who the other town are. The advantage of the Mafia, is information. They are usually low in number in comparison to the Town, yet they know who the other Mafia are, so they can usually wiggle around the town. Example?

Think of Fire Emblem (Role Playing Strategy Game), and how Greil had him, Shinon, and Gatrie roam about in a three-man team, because they know smaller numbers = more room to run/manuever/take out men quickly. Shinon and Gatrie were pretty damn good at what they did, and Greil was a ****ing monster. This helped the rest of the Mercaniries take off some heat while in pursuit, because the greil pack would devastate the enemies while being in the shadows. This is sort of how the advantage for Mafia works, except their The Bad guys, and their enemies are The Town.

For town, it's easy to see. Since we don't know who other towns are, we'll have to lynch people without really knowing their alignment. We may be confident, yet we won't know until the mod posts the flip. This is why for town, it's good to have numbers, because we may have been very wrong, and for us to find mafia we may need extra chances, especially since we have low information at first. Eventually as the numbers get closer together, the town will be gaining more information and should be able to find The Mafia if they try hard enough, and are right enough.



Problems towns face:

Townies have no information. Remember this. So, townies don't truly know someone is scum until they get the mod flip. This means that townies can be convinced out of their own scumread if enough time passes between their proclamation to lynch their scum read and the mod flip. (There is also the butterflies, which means you can't wait until that person is lynched and super hopefully flips scum so you can crack your beers or whatever you celebrate with and cheer! ) If they are doubtful of their read, this may also be easier for them to be convinced. Newb townies might not get with the program at first, since being mafia may be more fun for them. Usually, a newbie who is really into their role may be mafia. Yet this is not always the case. Townies may just really like being the good guy, and may be accused of being enthusiastic scum. It happens. Anyways, townies may not always be right. Townies even may be doubtful of their own reads.

Mafia may face the problem of being guilty of their own role. This may then turn into dis-interest of the game, and you should be able to tell this. If they post less, or don't have a strong passion as usual, this may be concerning. When it comes to newbies, they may be dis-interested in their town role. Don't entirely rely on this, as mafia may be the same way as well. You can't really tell until you really know the person and their ins and outs.

What you should do

Townies should try to push on any lead they have, even if they are doubtful. Townies need confidence, and a deep understanding of what mafia want to do to be able to find them in the first place. When the townie is really confident and lynches wrong, he must see the error of his ways, and re-evaluate his reads (and bite on his own pride if he always thinks he is right), to then find the mafia. He should look at the wagon, to see who else joined and why. Try to pick out the scum off of the wagon. Remember, scum want to lynch all those who are not themselves, so you might find one with you. Yet, don't expect all scum to be on the wagon. Expect some not even to be voting. If you see one not voting as often, that may be something to be concerned about. It's a cycle.

Like so:

Now, there might be some reasons for you having weak leads. One reason may be that some of the scum are lurking, and at least one may be just really townie to you. It happens. Another reason may be that the scum are entirely lurking, and aren't even trying. This is the point to start looking at lurkers and lynching them. You may find super scummy reasons to lynch someone when you are town, yet find out that most of the scum were just the lurker options you never tried due to, prioritizing scummy people over lurkers.






Yet, the most important thing for you to do is to use the tools available to you as whatever role you are. You must use it wisely. Now, for power roles, they have more tools to use at night, so they should act carefully during the day to not be picked as suspicious, and use their role wisely at night to find mafia. Now, your next question may be: What is the tools available to Vanilla Townies? I will answer that in the next section!

Tools of a Vanilla Townie

The Vanilla Townie only has his voice and his vote. This means, that you have to use your ONLY tool, your vote, to your advantage. Yet, you don't have to act carefully as PR's do! You can act more aggressively and be careless as a Vanilla townie. You have nothing to hide, and nothing to keep safe (a power), so you have nothing to lose! Do everything possible you can think of, to find Mafia! The town is essentially your play-ground. So, you use your vote however you think will get you mafia. You can hop from person to person voting to gain reactions, or you can reserve your vote and give more assessments then pressure. Or, you can do both. Sometimes, others will do the pressure voting before you, and you might see something suspicious without having to do all the work before hand, and just instantly have a 'reserved' vote and case, instead of jumping around yourself. Sometimes people won't be doing that, and you'll have to do that before you can find the scum.

The Voice part comes with voicing your opinions. Don't dilly dally on this. Don't focus entirely on the pressuring and questioning. You need to contribute with some conclusions afterwards, don't expect others to do that for you. Then, with opinions, comes your thoughts on who to lynch, and who to keep (your town reads). You don't HAVE to release your town reads, but you can release those who you want to protect/buddy. There may be someone you strongly and passionately feel that is town, and you want to yell to the GODS AND THE HEAVENS THAT EVERYONE IN THE TOWN IS STUPID FOR trying to lynch them. Go ahead if that is how you feel. Try not to get too emotional though, but feel free to bring in the passion.

CONCLUSION
I think I covered everything that you should know for now. Remind me to cover end-game (not post-game) and Lylo/Mylo sometime during the day. Don't ask me if you haven't even read this post lolz. READ IT MOFO.

GUYS don't forget about this, ok? I want your thoughts on this whenever you can give it. I know it's very long, take your sweet sweet time on it.

 

[GaGa]

In an aside, I haven't been posting a lot because last night I had a paper to do / I just got back my fixed laptop..

I'll be being more active from today onwards

It's also worth noting that you posted after some pressure was thrown on you.
Immediately after...



I have no basis to refute your paper story...
BUT I'M WATCHING YOU.

 

[ranmaru]

Pwndiator also only came in thread once I voted him. I felt Badwolf may have been in cohoots with him because he was in thread earlier. Also not liking Bad's vote on me, seemed like a chainsaw.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Pwn needs to stop the self pity. Other than that I'm cool with these interactions going on, I'll post more when I'm out of the movies.

 

[Turazrok]

Posting in the movies -> Bright Screen -> Ruins movie -> scum.

GG wolf GG

 

[GaGa]

GaGa is trying to gather information, but he seems to be over thinking it a bit. He picking up the smallest of details, such as when I confirmed, and trying to worm it into an accusation. He might even be drawing fire off of himself by providing fuel to the Pawn-hate fire.

This feels a bit over-acted to me.

I am a very calculating person, it's in my nature. Likewise I'm pretty passionate.
You can keep your vote on me if you'd like, but I've explained all of my actions in detail.

 

[GaGa]

Yes, I am picking up suspicious activity from you. How is that off? Who else could I 'bring up' instead of you? Why NOT you? Is there something I missed?

co-sign.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Ninja, wrt to the last part of the interactions I've had a less happy feel toward Pwn just because he's pulling the newb card and he's also conplaining rather loudly about pressure and how he shouldn't be under it. IMO he needs to ball up and put some pressure on someone else if he wants it off him.

Ran, ill take my vote off when I'm on my comp, idk how to bold with the new system while on mobile.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Unvote vote: Kantrip

Vote: Gaga

@Ran: I don't have too much to share atm tbh, since I haven't had a chance to make any significant reads on anyone just yet.

I am interested in why you told Gaga this though:

I'll tell you later.

As a town member, why would you be sharing info with Gaga in secret, when he could very well be Mafia?

 

[ranmaru]

Lol, that's actually against the rules. We can't talk privately with anyone here, unless we somehow have the power too. (Which only mafia and town masons or other roles can)

I meant later as in, in the thread. I told him in my #95

 

[ranmaru]

Also, wondering why you are now voting GaGa, Xiroey. Anything to point out?

 

[Kantrip]

Pretty much what Ran just quoted. I don't know why he cares so much when someone is poking around in the RVS. Also he's changed the way he's addressed posts after being put under pressure from "halp newb" to things like #111 (Random thought. can you still multiquote?) He also has yet to try and find anything out himself besides asking Ran why he's being "targeted". Seems likes he's trying to look like something he's not

Could you quote some of his posts that show he cared a lot about RVS? The reason I'm questioning you is because I feel like you're sheeping (blindly following) Ranmaru without actually believing the points yourself. It looks to me like you are just hopping onto the pawn wagon because it is popular and it is an easy wagon.

I also disagree with the premise of Ranmaru's points. I feel like pawn actually didn't seem to phased about the votes on him. He only started getting upset with the pressure on him when it didn't let up after RVS had ended. I also don't see 'halp newb' as much as I see honesty. He's not trying to pull the card to get people off him, he's just explaining why he's doing what he's doing, which happens to coincide with pulling the newb card.

You mention his #111 as a shift from him pulling the newb card, then you say he's not trying to find anything out for himself. Isn't his #111 finding stuff out for himself? How is his #111 scummy in any way. I find it to be quite a redeeming post for him actually, and I'm wondering what you have against it.

 

[pawndidater2]

You can keep your vote on me if you'd like, but I've explained all of my actions in detail.

How about this?

Another reason I have been reluctant to go into full detail, was to prevent myself from being a target.
In explaining myself, I hope I haven't targeted myself for a night killing 0___o.
I'm hoping that someone might have a skill that saves me or something...
Although ultimately my goal is to WIN, and as long as my death leads to a mafia member getting caught, so be it.

You seem almost too paranoid. Why would revealing your intentions make you a target?

 

[Kantrip]

Ranmaru please tell me your points against pawn were to see who would follow and who would think for themselves....

 

[GaGa]

GUYS don't forget about this, ok? I want your thoughts on this whenever you can give it. I know it's very long, take your sweet sweet time on it.

I just finished it.
I'm glad to say, a notable percentage of this information I figured out on my own.
Although several things I would have never figured out without experience or reading this.

The part about players being disinterested in their roles
vs. being passionate about their roles were particularly interesting.
I also didnt think lying would be that bad of a thing as a townie,
but the example proved otherwise. Good thing I'm honest.

This game comes down to a logic based guessing game IMO. Love it.

 

[Turazrok]

Could you quote some of his posts that show he cared a lot about RVS? The reason I'm questioning you is because I feel like you're sheeping (blindly following) Ranmaru without actually believing the points yourself. It looks to me like you are just hopping onto the pawn wagon because it is popular and it is an easy wagon.

I also disagree with the premise of Ranmaru's points. I feel like pawn actually didn't seem to phased about the votes on him. He only started getting upset with the pressure on him when it didn't let up after RVS had ended. I also don't see 'halp newb' as much as I see honesty. He's not trying to pull the card to get people off him, he's just explaining why he's doing what he's doing, which happens to coincide with pulling the newb card.

You mention his #111 as a shift from him pulling the newb card, then you say he's not trying to find anything out for himself. Isn't his #111 finding stuff out for himself? How is his #111 scummy in any way. I find it to be quite a redeeming post for him actually, and I'm wondering what you have against it.

My original vote was against GaGa unless you're forgetting. His #111 as I stated is him trying to fit in. And more after I finish my dungeon queue lol

 

[GaGa]

How about this?

You seem almost too paranoid. Why would revealing your intentions m ake you a target?

post number 109 is a perfect example.

 

[Kantrip]

My original vote was against GaGa unless you're forgetting. His #111 as I stated is him trying to fit in. And more after I finish my dungeon queue lol

That's not relevant, but okay.

Why is his #111 him trying to fit in rather than him actually playing and trying to find scum?

 

[GaGa]

Potassium, why did YOU vote for me?
I'm not sure if you ever stated why.

 

[pawndidater2]

post number 109 is a perfect example.

In what way is that relevant?

 

[GaGa]

You seem almost too paranoid. Why would revealing your intentions make you a target?

I voted GaGa because his first major action was to "force content" but really only helped to shift focus onto pwndidator for no discernible reason.

1: I stated my reason and he still got suspicious.
2: Mafia are entitled to night killings. If I'm being a strong player, that makes me an obvious target.

 

[pawndidater2]

I stated my reason and he still got suspicious.

Could you show me what you're talking about? I don't quite understand.

 

[Turazrok]

He's saying that he was open about why he did something and I called him out for it anyways.

 

[Kantrip]

Potassium, why did YOU vote for me?
I'm not sure if you ever stated why.

Because my flash cards told me to!

(RVS)

 

[pawndidater2]

He's saying that he was open about why he did something and I called him out for it anyways.

Oh, so 1 is directed at you and 2 is directed at me? Strange, the quotes are in opposite order...
#scum

 

[Grizzlpaw]

@Ran: I was curious to see if he'd respond to the vote or not. (And how)

He's already had several people voting for him so far, and so far he still hasn't reacted to Turazroks vote for him a few posts back.

Just something to help me come up with some more substancial reads.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

@Ran: I was curious to see if he'd respond to the vote or not. (And how)

He's already had several people voting for him so far, and so far he still hasn't reacted to Turazroks vote for him a few posts back.

Just something to help me come up with some more substancial reads.

 

[Kantrip]

Turazrok pls

 

[Grizzlpaw]

*EBWOP

Wow, not sure why that posted twice...

 

[Grizzlpaw]

*EBWOP

toss a ninja into that

 

[GaGa]

Oh, so 1 is directed at you and 2 is directed at me? Strange, the quotes are in opposite order...
#scum

Now you're just reaching.
I answered your question with both examples.

 

[GaGa]

Because my flash cards told me to!

(RVS)

cant question that logic.

 

[pawndidater2]

Now you're just reaching.
I answered your question with both examples.

It whas a joak.

And #109 is still not relevant.

 

[Turazrok]

Turazrok pls

Kinda wanna ms paint a ****ty diddy sayin that :/

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Hmmm.

Pawnscum insta busses partner Gaga when under renewed pressure ?

Unlikely.

pawn seems too easy , wary of people jumping this again.

why is his defensiveness scummy over new-town defensive ? Where does he cross that line ?

@pawn: Are you town ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

DIS GUY. Just do it later man when you have time and a computer. I can wait. I have the time.

@Rake: So? Did it seem un-town-like of him to be not butting heads with you EARLY on? Also why Badwolf?

No i just expected the same.
No particular reason for Badwulf.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Posting in the movies -> Bright Screen -> Ruins movie -> scum.

GG wolf GG

Dear god that logic.... It is undeniable. <- Joke right there.


Unvote

Stuff in a bit. Dinner and stuff first.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Hmm.

I'd like to ask all the newbies something.

@Newbies: What is your read on me ?