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New tech: Floatdashing

ZoltGear

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
5
This isn't really a new tech and more of an application of existing things.
I haven't seen it talked about anywhere before so I'll be showing you what it his, why I think it's useful and it's applications:
First of all, this is what it looks like:
http://gfycat.com/PhysicalPoliticalLangur

It consists of interrupting your jump asap with float, then pressing down to drop, followed by a perfect waveland (note: stating the obvious but a perfect waveland is fully horizontal, you can do it by "rolling" your stick one quarter to drop then immediatly waveland, or just tap down then readjust).
It's a pretty simple application of known stuff but it allows you to move at ridiculous speed across the stage, and is of course much faster than simply doing short hops into perfect wavelands.
Also, you can do it way faster than I do it, like REALLY fast I'm not really consistent enough yet at starting it and interrupting the float as fast as I can.
Some more dedicated ganon main can probably make it look insanely fast and when mastered is almost definitely simply faster than running with ganon (I have no way to test this and am not consistent enough to do it anyway, but from my testing when I do manage to do it perfectly the setup time before the waveland becomes really short).
Add this to his already ludicrous mobility with his easy as hell perfect wavelands on platforms:
http://gfycat.com/ObeseDamagedHalcyon
, and you've got yourself a deceptively fast character that hits like a freaking truck.

Now, onto applications:

It's an all around great movement tool that's basically a modified wavedash. Sure, you need some delay to set it up but it has an insane mixup potential because you can at any time decide to attack out of the float instead of dashing which leaves your opponents guessing (note: you can do short hop and float at the top of your jump to mix in all your aerials and still do a pretty fast drop down and dash, but if you do the fast really low float then you can only use uair, bair and first hit nair).
You can b reverse it, wavebounce it, vary wavedash length, do it out of fullhop float on platforms, etc...
Of course, it should allow to get punishes that would have been too far away to get with his slow run due to the great burst of speed this tech gives you, and it generally helps a TON to get grabs, which abuses his really good grab game that was kinda compensated by his small range.
Also, you can techchase with it:
http://gfycat.com/WarpedEdibleCopperhead
There's probably a million other things I haven't even thought about since I'm not a ganon main, I personally think it looks really useful (although I'm not good enough at this game to be sure about that, but it's cool regardless).
I can't wait to see what more experienced ganon players can do with this with some practice.
 
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Electric Tuba

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
422
Location
Dallas, Texas
Cool find/application of tech. At the very least it looks sweet, which is always good. I guess my wonder is if just dashing/sh ff waveland is faster or not.

I also really like that it involves float, meaning it's reversible (like you mentioned) so that it's more flexible and adaptable.
 
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redcometchar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
378
Location
Side 3
This is sick. Best reflector ever.
B reversing the floats makes for an interesting dash dance. You can also use float to link your platform wavelands.
 

redcometchar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
378
Location
Side 3
So I wanted to test how fast this was so I compared the time it took to cross fd using this method with just dashing across fd.
A dash across fd leaves you airborne on frame 128, so it takes 127 frames
Using this method (floatdashing) took 131 frames. I swear it looks faster when I do it in real time but I guess not. Am I missing something?

The method I used was
frame 1 dash input
frame 2 jump input starts (continue forward input with control stick)
frame 3 jump input ends (continue forward input with control stick)
frame 7 (first airborne frame) float
frame 8 forward input on control stick begins
frame 20 (first actionable frame) cancel float with down input
frame 21 forward input on control stick begins
frame 33 (first frame where you can air dodge) Air dodge straight forward
frame 34 (first grounded frame) continue forward input
frame 44 return stick to neutral
frame 45 (first actionable frame) dash input
And so on.

So I guess floatdashing does not have much use as a general movement tool. only for mindgames and techchasing.
 

ZoltGear

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
5
Damn, I would have sworn it was faster too, too bad I guess, thanks for testing it.
 

waygu

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
1,170
Location
Minnesota
ive been trying to pull this off since 3.5 and wow i really need to get it down for style wtf
 

redcometchar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
378
Location
Side 3
If you float on your first airborne frame it just so happens that the last frame of cooldown on your float canceled with a fast fall puts you in a position to perfect waveland. Super tight timing but I think this was intended.
If you float later in your short hop (2nd or 3rd frame) your window to waveland is much larger as long as you make sure you cancel your float before you loose altitude.
 

CheCray

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
32
I might be wrong on this but Doesn't a max length waveland require the control stick to go slightly up on the control stick?
 

Electric Tuba

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
422
Location
Dallas, Texas
I might be wrong on this but Doesn't a max length waveland require the control stick to go slightly up on the control stick?
No, horizontal will get the max distance. Trying for a slight angle up will also make it a little riskier...

Can someone else confirm, in case I'm mistaken?
 

waygu

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
1,170
Location
Minnesota
Max waveland is horizontal, you likely are using that as an input method to help yourself get it due to your personal timing
 

BuddyBooNW

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
10
This isn't really a new tech and more of an application of existing things.
I haven't seen it talked about anywhere before so I'll be showing you what it his, why I think it's useful and it's applications:
First of all, this is what it looks like:


It consists of interrupting your jump asap with float, then pressing down to drop, followed by a perfect waveland (note: stating the obvious but a perfect waveland is fully horizontal, you can do it by "rolling" your stick one quarter to drop then immediatly waveland, or just tap down then readjust).
It's a pretty simple application of known stuff but it allows you to move at ridiculous speed across the stage, and is of course much faster than simply doing short hops into perfect wavelands.
Also, you can do it way faster than I do it, like REALLY fast I'm not really consistent enough yet at starting it and interrupting the float as fast as I can.
Some more dedicated ganon main can probably make it look insanely fast and when mastered is almost definitely simply faster than running with ganon (I have no way to test this and am not consistent enough to do it anyway, but from my testing when I do manage to do it perfectly the setup time before the waveland becomes really short).
Add this to his already ludicrous mobility with his easy as hell perfect wavelands on platforms:
, and you've got yourself a deceptively fast character that hits like a freaking truck.

Now, onto applications:

It's an all around great movement tool that's basically a modified wavedash. Sure, you need some delay to set it up but it has an insane mixup potential because you can at any time decide to attack out of the float instead of dashing which leaves your opponents guessing (note: you can do short hop and float at the top of your jump to mix in all your aerials and still do a pretty fast drop down and dash, but if you do the fast really low float then you can only use uair, bair and first hit nair).
You can b reverse it, wavebounce it, vary wavedash length, do it out of fullhop float on platforms, etc...
Of course, it should allow to get punishes that would have been too far away to get with his slow run due to the great burst of speed this tech gives you, and it generally helps a TON to get grabs, which abuses his really good grab game that was kinda compensated by his small range.
Also, you can techchase with it:
There's probably a million other things I haven't even thought about since I'm not a ganon main, I personally think it looks really useful (although I'm not good enough at this game to be sure about that, but it's cool regardless).
I can't wait to see what more experienced ganon players can do with this with some practice.
Watch the dev team make this impossible.
 

CheCray

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
32
So I think that this tech IS faster than running, Ganon's running jump airspeed is 1.8 which is actually the 5th fastest in the game. It's much faster than his run speed of 1.35, I think the answer to speeding this tech up is to just input a dash just before you do your jump.
The dash can be jumped out of immediately and float retains the sperd from the running jump. From my experiments if done correctly it's definitely faster than running.

If you look at the Gif of Ganon on PS2 notice how much faster the first float dash is than the second float dash. That first float has been sped up by a dash.
 
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Bazkip

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,136
Location
Canada
Ganon's running jump airspeed is 1.8 which is actually the 5th fastest in the game. It's much faster than his run speed of 1.35
The running jump airspeed value is the max that can be brought into a jump rather than the speed you get. So while we can get a theoretical speed of 1.8 it doesn't actually happen cause we don't run that fast (but maybe we can achieve higher speeds from jumping out of wavelands...? Probably not though due to the 10 frame airdodge landing lag)
 
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CheCray

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
32
That sounds promising, if you start a dash durring a waveland do you retain the momentum from the waveland in addition to the dash's speed boost? I feel like Ganon doesnt but it's a possibility, if he does then there are potential uses for this tech.
 
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redcometchar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
378
Location
Side 3
So I think that this tech IS faster than running, Ganon's running jump airspeed is 1.8 which is actually the 5th fastest in the game. It's much faster than his run speed of 1.35, I think the answer to speeding this tech up is to just input a dash just before you do your jump.
The dash can be jumped out of immediately and float retains the sperd from the running jump. From my experiments if done correctly it's definitely faster than running.

If you look at the Gif of Ganon on PS2 notice how much faster the first float dash is than the second float dash. That first float has been sped up by a dash.
Nope
If you look at my ealier post i was doing dash jumps
You decelerate during your time in the air, too much for the waveland to make up for it

Also ganon does retain some momentum from his waveland after the lag is finished, being why waveland moonwalks work better
 
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RPGgrenade

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
80
Rebardless of whether or not this tech truly speeds up ganondorf (which I think has been shown to not be the case) We can at least agree that this is a great mix-up tool and also changes the pace that can REALLY throw some people off.
 
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