New Sheik Tech: Instant Needle Cancels

[Jaxas]

Looks like this is gonna be a LOT more important now, since Ftilt/Dtilt out of run are seemingly the only kill-setup replacements we have for Dthrow (the Fthrow 50/50 apparently doesn't work well with DI? Idk).

Definitely hitting the lab hard on this this week

 

[Simikins]

Old thread, but I realised there was some missing info.

How instant needle cancelling works
Upon pressing B to start charging needles, there is a 7 frame startup animation that plays before the normal 'needle charging' animation where sheik throws her hand up and down and magically creates more needles. Normally, pressing shield during the needle charging animation would play the 7 frame 'needle cancel' animation BUT there is a 1 frame window (confirmed 1 frame window) at the end of the needle startup animation where if you press shield the needle cancel animation will not play, but shield will come up IMMEDIATELY. Shield must be pressed on the 8th frame after first pressing B.

Input priority (on the ground) is as follows:
Specials > Attacks > Shield > Jump > Stick inputs

Basically what that means is if you buffer multiple moves, the one with most priority will be the one that comes out. This is also why you can instant needle cancel into both specials and attacks, as they both out prioritise shield. When you buffer one of those moves, and then press shield in the 1 frame window, the needles are still cancelled but because of input priority, rather than shield coming up, the buffered move happens.

Input buffering with shield and a is pretty weird though.
A + Shield on same frame = grab
if you buffer on the same frame or if you buffer shield first and hold, then buffer jab = it grabs
butttt then if you buffer jab first and hold, then buffer shield, it jabs
or if you buffer jab first and release then buffer shield, also jabs
or buffering shield first and releasing then buffering jab, it jabs

So I don't have a full explanation for input buffered stuff but just looking at those examples it makes sense why the attack buffers out instead of shield.

 

[Raemonded]

I'm starting to get into this tech, but for some reason, whenever I perform it, a Grab randomly comes out instead of the Tilt I inputted (typically a Forward-tilt). I know I'm not accidentally touching the Grab button, so THAT can't be the issue.

Another problem I have is that I can RARELY perform the Instant Needle Cancel. I'll be practicing it, and sometimes an INC comes out, but it's usually a Regular Needle Cancel.

Do you have any advice on how to fix this? I've tried setting Special to different Shoulder buttons and I've tried inputting Grab to different shoulder buttons, but the same problem keeps happening.

(I use a Wii U Pro Controller, not a GameCube controller.)

 

[Simikins]

I'm starting to get into this tech, but for some reason, whenever I perform it, a Grab randomly comes out instead of the Tilt I inputted (typically a Forward-tilt). I know I'm not accidentally touching the Grab button, so THAT can't be the issue.

Another problem I have is that I can RARELY perform the Instant Needle Cancel. I'll be practicing it, and sometimes an INC comes out, but it's usually a Regular Needle Cancel.

Do you have any advice on how to fix this? I've tried setting Special to different Shoulder buttons and I've tried inputting Grab to different shoulder buttons, but the same problem keeps happening.

(I use a Wii U Pro Controller, not a GameCube controller.)

If you're getting a grab, this means you're pressing the attack button after the shield cancel and holding the shield. To instant needle cancel into an attack, you need to buffer the attack before the shield input.
When you're getting regular needle cancel instead of instant, it just means you're too slow. To instant needle cancel you need to press shield on frame 8 of the needle charge. Any later will regular needle cancel, any earlier will do nothing.
There's not much changing your control scheme around can do for this, you basically just have to do it faster.

But, I also use wii u pro controller, and have both ZL and ZR set to special. When I instant needle cancel, I dash, input needle with ZL with my left index finger, use my right thumb to hit the c-stick or A, and then my right index finger to shield with R.

Hope this helps.

 

[Raemonded]

I've been doing it faster and I notice that I'm now getting more consistent with the timings, but for some reason, I can't do a Forward-tilt out of an INC. Everytime I try, Grab comes out.