New movement technique: moonturning (Pivot walk out of dash)

[tauKhan]

I discovered that in pm one can conserve momentum and even accelerate backward during dash pivot if you hold back on the next frame after the pivot. So I can do something very similar to moonwalking by dashing forward, turning and immediately holding forward again. However, you will start to lose momentum before you can dash again, so you can't do this multiple times, but if you jump at right time and your char has high max aerial speed, you can go very fast in short time. With captain falcon I think he goes even faster than at perfect moonwalk, and he certainly reaches high speeds much faster. This also works very well with spacies. I don't know the specifics, but it seems that chars have different turning accelerations.

How I do this tech to left: hold attack, dash left, cstick at 45° forward while still holding left. It's possible to do with only control stick but that is very hard to do.

This tech can be used for fast turn jumps and offstage edgeguards with some chars. You can get more momentum than from RAR jumps and you can also do this straight out of dash if you don't have the space to go for run. Another advantage over moonwalking is that you are actually turning and can therefore perform any attack or grab aside from neutral b at any point after the pivot. You can even do a retreating jab for a safe poke. This tech looks very confusing and can throw your opponent off and you can also mix this with pivot stops, since it actually looks exactly the same except that you are actually moving during the pivot.

Before anyone asks, I don't have recording equipment and would like someone else to make a demonstration video. Also I don't expect this to be extremely useful, just a situational tool.

Edit: I don't think that you can accelerate during the turnaround anymore; this just lets you to keep the momentum, and slide without traction. So this can be done to do a RAR like jump, but from initial dash instead of run and without any momentum loss.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Feel like I've seen people do this before.

 

[tauKhan]

If so that's great . I haven't seen anybody post anything about it or use it in videos so I made this thread.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Its actually quite good for grabbing ledges, here it can be actually an advantage having a longer pivot animation.
Didn't think of moonturn jump yet, characters with long pivot animations and bad rars probably benefit from it.
You can also have a similar effect if you do a pivot during the dash state that isn't the initial dash animation anymore, because you still have a little slide with it after the pivot. I was quite successful grabbing the ledge with it.
Can wavedashing directly before increase the effect?

 

[tauKhan]

Yeah I thought about grabbing ledges. I think with some characters it's faster to grab ledge with a moonturn than pivot wd, if you are too close to do RAR. I think RAR is probably as fast / faster if you are at run distance though.
I'm not sure how previous momentum alters a dash forward; I think that if you go faster than your fastest dash speed, you will slow down by traction to dash max speed instead of accelerating. It might work better if you just do a wd into instant moonturn, not dashing first, if your max wd speed is better than dash speed. It's difficult to test with just the game as testing environment.

A characters dash speed has a big effect on the moonturn as you use dash first to get momentum. Thus I don't think chars with bad rars actually benefit at all.

 

[Pika_thunder]

This is a brawl tech called pivot walking

Please fix the title

 

[Ali Baba 177]

Posting some videos would help clarify what exactly it is and to what extent people have used it.

 

[SpiderMad]

This is a brawl tech called pivot walking

Please fix the title

It's pivot walking, but apparently out of a dash rather than walk (which idk if that had any use in Brawl to pivot walk out of a dash) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzoxJ9jy-6g#t=14

So uh, I guess I'll test this out, save the replay, and record my TV with my phone like I always do then? It's better than RARs with more air speed or somethin?

 

[tauKhan]

This is a brawl tech called pivot walking
Please fix the title

Come to think of it, this was probably a brawl mechanic that was left in Pm. I searched brawl boards and there was a tech called pivot sliding which is probably closest. Funnily enough, I almost called this pivot sliding myself . But I didn't see anybody using dash momentum in this, I'm not sure if that was possible in brawl, as I haven't really played the game.

Well anyway this has some added value because in Brawl you could take ledge facing away. In pm you can do this to edge hog really fast.

@ SpiderMad What I'm describing happens in that video at 13 secs, and what he refers incorrectly as sticky walking. Though he doesn't use dash momentum. It can give a small advantage to RAR speed because you don't decelerate at all during this, but I believe you always do a little if you RAR. Mainly this gives you the ability to RAR during initial dash.
Also I would like you to demostrate this with cf.

 

[SpiderMad]

I wasn't able to get much of any slide with it

 

[tauKhan]

@ SpiderMad Did you do it correctly? Dash, then quikly (during initial dash) tap cstick while still holding dash input, then keep holding controlstick. Falcon slides more than his wd distance. You don't get any more speed though.

 

[SpiderMad]

I thought I'm doing that but I quickly stop and turn around (pivot) without sliding, I'll try again tomorrow. You get a little boost when you do it during the walk but with a dash it seemed to halt me after the turn

 

[tauKhan]

No you don't get boost even when walking. It just seems like it since your turnaround shifts your position a bit, but your speed remains the same. The pivot stops you if you don't hold backwards on the next frame.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

After some testing, I would use it in the following situations:
After every empty pivot, you can move a bit to makes it more safe or to bait out while retreating (move away), position yourself for the next move.
The pivot walk edgeguard which essentially is a moonturn out of walk, makes sense for:
- high walk speeds
- if you want to preserve your option to react quickly, in a sense that you wouldn't want to dash-> RAR wavedash for that exact reason (especially if you want to save tilts)

 

[SpiderMad]

After some testing, I would use it in the following situations:
After every empty pivot, you can move a bit to makes it more safe or to bait out while retreating (move away), position yourself for the next move.
The pivot walk edgeguard which essentially is a moonturn out of walk, makes sense for:
- high walk speeds
- if you want to preserve your option to react quickly, in a sense that you wouldn't want to dash-> RAR wavedash for that exact reason (especially if you want to save tilts)

I'm not able to appreciate the pivot walk and pivot dash to be that useful

I was able to perform the pivot dash though so I'll record it, but I was hoping to think of some use to show for it

 

[Chesstiger2612]

The pivot itself not, the alternative c-stick method yes, not sure about the moving part during empty pivot animation