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My Smash 4 Optimism

Dr. James Rustles

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First thing’s first, I want to say that playing Super Smash Bros. hasn’t been without disappointment over the years. As a child, I foolishly believed in all the crazy unlockable characters that didn’t appear in the first game, and I thought all the clones in Melee were a deliberate waste of effort (it wasn’t until much later I found out why they were clones to begin with.) When I first played Brawl, I instinctively knew something was wrong even though I wasn’t a competitive player in any way. The game wasn’t very fast, landing most of the aerials made the gameplay feel sticky, and it was really hard to keep consecutive hits on the other player. The rest of the game felt a little overhyped, especially the story mode.

That being said, I feel like there’s a lot of changes going on that are taking the series in a good direction.

#1 - The development team isn’t focusing on things that don’t matter
Most of you are probably aware that cutscenes and a story mode are no longer in the game. Admittedly, the reason given was dumb, but at the end of the day that isn’t bad news - they can now focus their resources on gameplay instead of spending their time at the drawing board trying to top the cutscenes in Subspace Emissary. For the vast majority of us, the gameplay is what we stayed for anyway. Besides, the cutscenes in Smash Bros. aren’t storycrafting masterpieces - they don’t really touch us on any level except for being visually impressive, and that’s only in passing.

#2 Great diversity of new characters
The three new characters unveiled at E3 were a near perfect trifecta of new characters. We finally have a character most of us have always wanted (Mega Man) as well as a new character that is doing things we have never seen before (Villager) and another character that came completely out of left field and swept us off our roster guessing feet (Wii Fit Trainer.) They’re all amazing in their own way and they all set the bar for what’s to come.

#3 - The core gameplay looks like it’s improving little by little
Sure, the game is no Melee - but the game is still looking like it could hold its own. The gameplay seems faster overall and there are a lot of hints that Sakurai is going to try new things with old characters, like Bowser’s new aggro style and Pit’s Raptor Boost 2.0 and huge shields. He’s even outright suggested that Peach, who looks very much the same as she always has, might be getting a makeover! Finally, Sakurai is bringing in more people for balancing the game. He’s previously admitted that Brawl had issues with character balance because they had been neglectful. So while the game may not be exactly like Melee with its hitstun and ATs, I’m confident that we’re going to have a game with more balanced tournament-viable variety than ever before. And there’s no more tripping!

#4 - Nintendo is slowly being dragged into the 21st century
I don’t think Nintendo is going to risk screwing up the chance to make use of online services. The Wii U needs sales and they’re likely going to help bring the Wii U’s connectivity prowess up to speed with modern consoles and PC gaming. They probably won’t reach current gen levels, but we can at least expect a much better online experience with the new Super Smash Bros. in terms of connection strength and game options. Sakurai has even hinted we might get DLC, so we can keep getting our official Smash fill without worrying about the next title release for any kind of update.

I apologize for all of the positivity, but I felt the need to express my thoughts, as I really do hope that the next Smash Bros. doesn’t proves me wrong. So far it’s looking like it is going to be an amazing entry in the series.

Maybe.

Stop fretting, people.
 

KingofPhantoms

The Spook Factor
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Thank you, Quilt.


There have been too many negative threads regarding Smash 4, for once a positive thread has been made. You have made excellent points as well, unlike a majority of the negative threads.
 

The Real Gamer

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Agreed on all points.

A lot of posters around here are just a bit reluctant to stay positive and get hyped because most of us remember how let down we were by Brawl.

Based on everything I've heard/seen so far I personally believe this game will improve upon Brawl in nearly every facet.
 

Medaka444

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I have a theory that one reason the devs made Brawl what it was is because of reviewers who criticized Melee for its fast speed (very common complaint) and poor single-player. It seems to have worked, given that Brawl was slightly more popular among professional reviewers than Melee. So here, we have Sakurai responding to common criticisms of the previous game once again.

When Brawl was released, it seems that everyone complained about how awful the SSE was. When it was announced to be removed, now there are plenty who bemoan the return to Melee's awful Adventure Mode (apparently). Complainers are always the loudest. And yet people who write for TV Tropes seem to really like the SSE, given the articles for Super Smash Bros.
 

Swamp Sensei

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We need more threads like this.

Embrace the positive!
 

liets

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im glad somebody is finally being positive with this, because ive read so much on how much smash 4 will be horrible. Main evidence cited? wii fit trainer. they think that adding her ruined smash. i think its hilarious and in the end a great addition. keep on staying positive all you loyal smashers! :D
ssbumad.gif
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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im glad somebody is finally being positive with this, because ive read so much on how much smash 4 will be horrible. Main evidence cited? wii fit trainer. they think that adding her ruined smash. i think its hilarious and in the end a great addition. keep on staying positive all you loyal smashers! :D
View attachment 2580

Here we go again... :rolleyes:

(But if I can be truly honest I'm just thinking there's not much great things that draw in even the haters because so far we have none aside from MegaMan (like some new mode or mechanics or features, etc). So it might also be a partial play on why SSB4's not too big on people right now

I mean yeah don't get me wrong you can't base your opinion on the game on what characters you have so far but there hasn't been anything revealed at all so far which could be able to draw me in the game, aside from polishment and improvements. Just throwing my few cents here


But like always, we should wait. Just criticizing rather closed-out development on this game as so far it reveals not much new compared to Brawl)
 

liets

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Here we go again... :rolleyes:

(But if I can be truly honest I'm just thinking there's not much great things that draw in even the haters because so far we have none aside from MegaMan (like some new mode or mechanics or features, etc). So it might also be a partial play on why SSB4's not too big on people right now

I mean yeah don't get me wrong you can't base your opinion on the game on what characters you have so far but there hasn't been anything revealed at all so far which could be able to draw me in the game, aside from polishment and improvements. Just throwing my few cents here


But like always, we should wait. Just criticizing rather closed-out development on this game as so far it reveals not much new compared to Brawl)
ok, ok, i respect your opinion and can see how you came to it, but...
what if i told you that sse and its cutscenes took up almost half of the space of data for brawl? since cutscenes have been anticonfirmed and we've been told the story mode will not be like sse, that leaves A LOT of room for... who knows? new modes, new items, etc. are all greatly available. same with things we didn't even have any idea wanted until they're revealed! this new capacity for "other stuff" is something i am greatly excited for. does that alter your opinion?
 

D-idara

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Besides, the cutscenes in Smash Bros. aren’t storycrafting masterpieces - they don’t really touch us on any level except for being visually impressive, and that’s only in passing.
Agreed with everything but that. The cutscenes in the SSE did touch the heart strings of any real Nintendo fan, seeing your favorite characters cooperate together to save the universe was a experience that, unfortunately, will never be repeated.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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ok, ok, i respect your opinion and can see how you came to it, but...
what if i told you that sse and its cutscenes took up almost half of the space of data for brawl? since cutscenes have been anticonfirmed and we've been told the story mode will not be like sse, that leaves A LOT of room for... who knows? new modes, new items, etc. are all greatly available. same with things we didn't even have any idea wanted until they're revealed! this new capacity for "other stuff" is something i am greatly excited for. does that alter your opinion?

I'm not saying the game's not gonna be good or anything (and even moreso with half-baked modes being removed which leaves more time for much more standard modes and features to be polished upon and added), I'm just saying that this game's so far really holding back with things that could make people hype about it right now (And it's made even worse with constantly debated "controversial" additions in the fanbase.). Which is why it's no wonder not many are feeling too high about it. And as we have watched some more potential newcomer choices being deconfirmed (possibly) and there's nothing to redeem people's minds on sight... well, you know the drill, not many people are too positive about this game. That's my criticism so far about the game.

Like I said, we gotta wait. It's great you guys are really optimistic and I say be by all means! Just let those with rather different opinions boil down the game and what it offers on their own. Who knows, they'll be surprised highly by the final product (and perhaps then admit that all the negativity wasn't all that necessary. Depends on the evidences that might drag 'em on the game tho)
 

liets

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I'm not saying the game's not gonna be good or anything (and even moreso with half-baked modes being removed which leaves more time for much more standard modes and features to be polished upon and added), I'm just saying that this game's so far really holding back with things that could make people hype about it right now (And it's made even worse with constantly debated "controversial" additions in the fanbase.). Which is why it's no wonder not many are feeling too high about it. And as we have watched some more potential newcomer choices being deconfirmed (possibly) and there's nothing to redeem people's minds on sight... well, you know the drill, not many people are too positive about this game. That's my criticism so far about the game.

Like I said, we gotta wait. It's great you guys are really optimistic and I say be by all means! Just let those with rather different opinions boil down the game and what it offers on their own. Who knows, they'll be surprised highly by the final product (and perhaps then admit that all the negativity wasn't all that necessary. Depends on the evidences that might drag 'em on the game tho)

eh i can say i tried
oh and based on what you said, it seems you boiled down this soup with a dash of salt :bee:
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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eh i can say i tried
oh and based on what you said, it seems you boiled down this soup with a dash of salt :bee:

Perhaps. Maybe I'm just rather annoyed, and still waiting to see if this game might provide something great to look forward for. It's not completely outward positivity but there's enough evidence telling I won't be necessarily bored for long.
 

Frostwraith

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I have a hunch that Sakurai is saving the best for last. Notice how he hasn't revealed a newcomer since E3, but has been revealing returning characters once per month.
 

Souless_shadow

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Finally,a thread praising what it does have instead of criticizing what it doesn't have!
 

Diddy Kong

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My optimism:

-The speed will be in between Melee and Brawl's
-Diddy will most likely be in
-Mewtwo will most likely be in

In all actuality, this means it'll most likely be good to me.
 

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
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My Sm4sh optimism...
1. Faster than Brawl
2. Characters are well balanced
3. Top Melee players will like the game and play it competitively
4. The Wi-Fi has no lag what so ever
 

cmbsfm

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I am really hoping the online turns out be good
 

Hong

The Strongest
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So far, everything I have seen, heard and read about the game from an official source has been positive.

With Brawl, it wasn't like that. The trailers were cool, but as soon as I had seen the game in motion, I felt uneasy. I knew the core game was not going to be as enjoyable as SSB64 or Melee, but I didn't think it would be that bad.
 

Kapus

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II'm just saying that this game's so far really holding back with things that could make people hype about it right now
We've still got about an entire year before the game comes out. Sakurai will probably try to build up hype closer to release so it doesn't die out over time.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
*clap hands*

This game needs more optimism surrounding it. I think this is going to be as good, if not better than Melee.
 

Arcadenik

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I have a hunch that Sakurai is saving the best for last. Notice how he hasn't revealed a newcomer since E3, but has been revealing returning characters once per month.
I'm kinda hoping Sakurai would reveal newcomers on December (6 months since E3 2013) as a Christmas gift for fans. And then back to revealing veterans on January... And then reveal more newcomers at E3 2014 (one year since E3 2013). :-)
 

nat pagle

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I'm kinda hoping Sakurai would reveal newcomers on December (6 months since E3 2013) as a Christmas gift for fans. And then back to revealing veterans on January... And then reveal more newcomers at E3 2014 (one year since E3 2013). :-)

E3 2014 would be pretty late for a huge reveal like that.
 

Renji64

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I do agree with some of the points there is somethings to look forward but still don't know what the gameplay will really be like from the video of megaman vs mario it looks like brawl 2.0 I would love it there was some combos in the game like melee.
Postives for me
1. It will have working online
2. It is better than brawl that was the lowest point in the series dispite it's sucess imo
3. Villager is awesome
4. It is visually appealing.
Just worried about the gameplay will this even be enjoyable for competive play i didn't like brawl competive play too defensive.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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im glad somebody is finally being positive with this, because ive read so much on how much smash 4 will be horrible. Main evidence cited? wii fit trainer. they think that adding her ruined smash. i think its hilarious and in the end a great addition. keep on staying positive all you loyal smashers! :D
View attachment 2580
Yes i loved her addition too just like mr game and watch and ROB i loved them as well thats why i don't think they are going anyway
 

BADGRAPHICS

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Since the confirmation of Toon Link, I am now very optimistic that we won't be losing many veterans, which means we'll be looking forward to a pretty beefed-out roster.
 

Signia

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The fast-faller players of Melee will never like it, unfortunately. They will never have that speed in any game ever again :(

All smash games have had their problems, though. What's irked me the most about the series is the lack of hitstun on moves that keep them on the ground, even in smash 64. It's almost always either a combo starter or disadvantage on hit. Why can't ground hits be advantage on hit like every other fighting game? I know hitstun increases when % goes up, but they also get knocked away further. It's just annoying that you can't follow up on things like forward and down tilts without risking getting hit by them poking out at you since they either are too low % and so have too little hitstun or are so far away that your advantage frames dwindle away before you can get to them. The only time you get advantage on hit is if they leave the ground slightly and don't have time to do an aerial and end up having to wait until they and for the normal landing lag to end before they can attack again.

It's been that way in every game and I hope the Namco people they have will do something about it. It's the reason why ground-to-ground fighting is uninteresting in smash games. In 64, you had to launch them or be at disadvantage after hitting them. In Melee, crouch cancel makes you punishable on hit, not to mention spot dodges granting punishes on tilts and smashes but not really for safe aerials. In Brawl, it's always a hit and run game, not just on the ground. In every other fighting game, most of the time, if you land a hit, if you do a fast attack it will beat their fast attack, for good reason: any other way, and it turns into a hit and run borefest or a put-the-controller-down combofest. Grabbing is almost always so much better than doing ground attacks in Melee and Brawl, and in 64 you launch into combos or space aerials.

It should be a hit and run game on block, not on hit. Ground attacks shouldn't all be shield-grabbable, it should just be disadvantage (as in, if they grab and you grab, theirs will come out earlier and beat yours). You shouldn't have to space outside shield grab range for everything. In Melee and Brawl, the shield stun was too little and in 64, it was too much.

My optimism? The Namco people will get ground hitstun and blockstun right, for once. It would be cool if there were no shield release animation too, but that's probably asking too much.
 

XStarWarriorX

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1. Newcomers/returning vets
2. Almost no cuts
3. Better online
4. Balanced characters

Just add more hitstun and keep L-canceling (64 had it) or just reduce the Aerial lag to next to nothing, and this game will be awesome.
 

Morbi

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Agreed with everything but that. The cutscenes in the SSE did touch the heart strings of any real Nintendo fan, seeing your favorite characters cooperate together to save the universe was a experience that, unfortunately, will never be repeated.
I must not be a real Nintendo fan. I thought that the Call of Duty cut-scenes touched my heart strings way more than anything SSE offered.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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1. Newcomers/returning vets
2. Almost no cuts
3. Better online
4. Balanced characters

Just add more hitstun and keep L-canceling (64 had it) or just reduce the Aerial lag to next to nothing, and this game will be awesome.
My thoughts on your things

1 yes most of are favorites

2 last time it was 5 cuts i very positive its going to be less like 3 or 4 cuts after all he never said how many cuts and hes working with namco you see namco will probably help get as many survivors as possible for smash 4 as well and sakurai doing to best to get as many as possible

3 yea better connections less waiting time for a random match easier to play with frienda because of friend codes being kicked

4 ive ben seeing that on quite a few characters i mean samus's charge shot is stronger bowser is faster and luigi is even less cloned than mario now there 1 jumps are different

Any way agree with the stuff you said
 

Ryan.

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I like the optimism! I am personally very hyped for this game because of the new characters and stages, and I'm sure there will be new mechanics and other great features improving from Brawl and Melee.
 

D-idara

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I must not be a real Nintendo fan. I thought that the Call of Duty cut-scenes touched my heart strings way more than anything SSE offered.
SSE was amazing...but on the COD things, it really depends on which COD we're talking about, if it's the World At War-Black Ops combo then yes, it does touch people.
 

nat pagle

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Agreed with everything but that. The cutscenes in the SSE did touch the heart strings of any real Nintendo fan, seeing your favorite characters cooperate together to save the universe was a experience that, unfortunately, will never be repeated.

I felt it would've been like that if the plot had any sense or development behind it. Tabuu felt completely random and subspace had so little behind it for the longest time. Just because they all worked together doesn't mean the plot wasn't weak, and working together was basically a given for the plot.

Definitely not worth the development time Sakurai spent on it.
 

Xigger

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Subspace Emissary may have been been fantastic to many people, but it definitely wasn't a game-seller. The majority of players play for multiplayer, and never even look at the adventure mode again. The numbers are what matters...
 

Medaka444

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Subspace Emissary may have been been fantastic to many people, but it definitely wasn't a game-seller. The majority of players play for multiplayer, and never even look at the adventure mode again. The numbers are what matters...

What numbers? In fact, what sources are you using? Is it even possible to tell how many millions bought it for multiplayer or SSE?
 

BADGRAPHICS

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I'm optimistic about the coming hype train.
Since characters are being revealed to coincide with game releases, we should be getting a pretty good number of unvielings between now and Christmas.

Pokemon, obviously, on Friday 11th, Wii Party U on the 25th, Mario 3D World on November 22nd and DK Tropical Freeze on December 6th.

I'm pretty damn optimistic that we'll see Pokemon Trainer, Diddy Kong, another Mario character, and possibly even Miis added to the site before Christmas.
 
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