[MU] Rosalina

[TheBuzzSaw]

My... goodness... I hate fighting Rosalina. I don't know if it's just my play style or if I am actually onto something: Rosalina feels like a hard counter to Link. She really has all the tools for dealing with Link. Her ability to send Luma out to attack really neutralizes any positional advantage Link gains by camping. Lately, my priority has been barraging Luma so it doesn't get close.

Rosalina also has a strangely good roll. I cannot punish it with down-smash baits at all.

Anyone else having trouble?

 

[Zane the pure]

Maybe I've only been fighting baddies, but Rosalina players seem to forget to protect themselves when they are trying to zone with Luma. I usually try to wait for her to throw an attack and punish it with projectiles, or toss a bomb from middair to bait gravity zone and punish or wait and see (reset spacing, punish bad roll, pressure shield, etc)

Her roll is decent, and the fact that she blinks invisible is problematic for punishing, but on at least the 3DS version you can tap the opponent's portrait on the bottom screen to bring up a cross-hare on them, and that doesn't blink at all. It helps a bit if they like retreating with rolls.

Also, shield drop is super good in game, so maybe dash in and guard - punish reaction and just roll around grab attempts. She seems like a top character so far, so the MU is probably gonna be skewed in her favor (cuz she does counter Lin's approach pretty well).

That's all I got for now.

 

[FSK]

**ignore**

 

[Scabe]

Top level play for reference.
Hashimo vs 9B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbTQztHCvq8
Hashimo vs 9B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=627wFWfRPGU

 

[LightLelouch89]

I have no trouble against Rosalina players. I find zair is useful in dealing with her wide hitbox. Also make sure to take out Luma. A lot of novice players make the mistake of leaving luma alone.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I have no trouble against Rosalina players. I find zair is useful in dealing with her wide hitbox. Also make sure to take out Luma. A lot of novice players make the mistake of leaving luma alone.

I want to believe you're an amazing Link player, but you probably haven't met a competent Rosalina player yet. Trust me: when Rosalina plays patiently, she cannot be touched, and she can combo the crap outta poor Link.

 

[Zane the pure]

I want to believe you're an amazing Link player, but you probably haven't met a competent Rosalina player yet. Trust me: when Rosalina plays patiently, she cannot be touched, and she can combo the crap outta poor Link.

Yeah Buzz, like 90% of Link's approach is gone if she plays patiently. I tried testing it with a friend first to ten and took 6-4 only because I'm significantly better with the controls, and I feel that is even more telling. Luma can attack you when you grab her (even kill you... the little *******) so you don't really have any strong way to pressure her since her grab range is great and shield drops are super free in this game.

My opinion: This one is going to be really ugly until Sm4sh wii u, and even then it's gonna be rough. Luma shot can kill, U-smash beats all of Link's aerials and is fast enough she can punish an airdodge landing, gravitational pull is the most annoying C-block of zoning in the history of ever, and she is about 1.5 times more mobile than you.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I just finished playing a dozen or so matches against a solid Rosalina. Many of her moves have extremely small punish windows. It's kind of scary, actually. She can do many things without fear of revenge. I have replays if someone wants to see them.

Also, her priority is stupid good. She beats all of links aerials. T_T

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I wanna see replays.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I've seen people fight RL on streams plenty times. People seem to try to knock luma off the edge and/or go ballistic on Luma when Rosalina shields up if that helps.

 

[LightLelouch89]

I want to believe you're an amazing Link player, but you probably haven't met a competent Rosalina player yet. Trust me: when Rosalina plays patiently, she cannot be touched, and she can combo the crap outta poor Link.

You're probably right about that. Pretty much all the online Rosalina's I've fought have either been really aggressive or just plain not knowing what they were doing (i.e. letting me kill Luma from distance as she charges him up).

 

[Pnppl Pnch]

Top level play for reference.
Hashimo vs 9B

Hashimo vs 9B

Hey, Link does pretty damn good even though he loses, and may have taken the first game without the SD. (Too new to post the links, so I removed em)

 

[Warlock*G]

Hey, Link does pretty damn good even though he loses, and may have taken the first game without the SD. (Too new to post the links, so I removed em)

"Too new"? So you can post links only if x amount of time has passed since you joined, or...?

Edit: I saw Hashimo get bodied in those vids. We can only hope that somehow, lag and 3DS controls were involved in favouring his defeat.

 

[Pnppl Pnch]

"Too new"? So you can post links only if x amount of time has passed since you joined, or...?

Need 10 posts before you can post links.

Edit: For match-up purposes, it seems like Link can do decently against Rosalina, Hashimo made some pretty gigantic errors leading to him giving up his lead in both matches (SDing when up 56% - 110% in the first match, the inexplicable spin attack towards the end of the second match that ultimately lead to him dying.)

 

[MagmarFire]

I tend to have some trouble against Rosalina myself, and due to my lack of experience in this matchup, my advice could be inadequate, but maybe it'll help just the same. What's best, I think, is to outzone her. She'll probably bait you to approach by nullifying your projectiles, but you still want to make sure her Neutral B doesn't get you. I've also noticed some Rosalinas who like to approach with her dash attack, and shielding that is probably your best bet, as I think it has enough cooldown lag to follow up with an OoS option.

But my main advice, set to Toy Story 3 for good measure:

Your real problem's the Luma. The Luma's the eye in the sky. It sees everything... The stage, the edge, and even the air. You can throw your boomerang, pepper her with arrows, blow her up with bombs; but if you don't take out that Luma, you ain't going nowhere. You want to mess up her trapping game? Get rid of that Luma!

 

[koloblican11763]

Spacing is more important then anything in this match up. Period.

With proper spacing you can punish all of her (no doubt numerous) dash attacks with jab. This generally separates Chiko and Rosa and gives you a moment to either throw out a Rang that wont be dB'd or start building up percent on Luma. Remember that you are NOT shield locked in her dash attack so hold shield the entire time!

Timing your dsmash is extremely important because her roll CAN be punished. This is also another effective way of separating Rosa from Chiko.

At long ranges, feel free to spam projectiles even though you know they will be dB'd because the player will start expecting projectiles at certain moments at which time you can use her lag to run up grab or punish the inevitable roll when you close instead of projectile. If they don't dB and choose to shield instead you still win because Chiko gains damage (the shield doesn't protect him from arrows or rangs).

To juggle use the standard uTilt-uAir juggle. Even though Rosas dAir is freaking ridiculous, the range, if timed, is not enough to punish your uTilts or uAirs. You often get a free kill on Chiko as well because the uTilt often displaces him off stage or just KO's him outright off the top of the screen.

Do not follow her off stage or attempt OOS Nairs or bAirs. She will punish you with superior start up frames and range.

KO with well spaced fTilts or dSmash.

Also, do NOT focus Chiko, like everyone else is saying. Your swords disjointed hitbox and range will often take care of him without you even having to worry about him. You will get Chiko kills reguardless. And do not make the mistake of thinking that once Chiko is down Rosa is weak, she is still the same character with ridiculous knockback, range, and rolls.

 

[Fabulous Falcon]

I went through what I would guess would be 50 rounds against a Rosalina online (pretty sure it was Dabuz). Anyway I got destroyed and didn't win once until the last match, but I think I learned the match up pretty well.

Spacing is key to this matchup. You really want to use your projectiles and the length of your sword to keep rosalina away from you

I would not recommend approaching from above at all, Rosalina's air game is too good to try and trade blows with if you're in the air.

I recommend using z-air and grabbing in general, grabbing out of shield works very well against Rosalina's dash attacks.

I would also recommend using u-tilt or d-smash to punish any rolls.

When recovering you want to mix up you recovery as much as possible to avoid being gimped by any of Rosalina's aerials. I tended throw bombs and fast fall n-air to mix things up.

This match-up is very performance based to be honest, you want to play this match-up more safely rather than being overly aggressive.

 

[MrFrigid]

Spacing is more important then anything in this match up. Period.

With proper spacing you can punish all of her (no doubt numerous) dash attacks with jab. This generally separates Chiko and Rosa and gives you a moment to either throw out a Rang that wont be dB'd or start building up percent on Luma. Remember that you are NOT shield locked in her dash attack so hold shield the entire time!

Timing your dsmash is extremely important because her roll CAN be punished. This is also another effective way of separating Rosa from Chiko.

At long ranges, feel free to spam projectiles even though you know they will be dB'd because the player will start expecting projectiles at certain moments at which time you can use her lag to run up grab or punish the inevitable roll when you close instead of projectile. If they don't dB and choose to shield instead you still win because Chiko gains damage (the shield doesn't protect him from arrows or rangs).

To juggle use the standard uTilt-uAir juggle. Even though Rosas dAir is freaking ridiculous, the range, if timed, is not enough to punish your uTilts or uAirs. You often get a free kill on Chiko as well because the uTilt often displaces him off stage or just KO's him outright off the top of the screen.

Do not follow her off stage or attempt OOS Nairs or bAirs. She will punish you with superior start up frames and range.

KO with well spaced fTilts or dSmash.

Also, do NOT focus Chiko, like everyone else is saying. Your swords disjointed hitbox and range will often take care of him without you even having to worry about him. You will get Chiko kills reguardless. And do not make the mistake of thinking that once Chiko is down Rosa is weak, she is still the same character with ridiculous knockback, range, and rolls.

THIS IS BEAUTIFUL ADVICE.

 

[Zebkeet]

Top level play for reference.
Hashimo vs 9B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbTQztHCvq8
Hashimo vs 9B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=627wFWfRPGU

I like how he short hop faired to get past luma.

 

[InfinityZERO]

I was told to come here if I wanted to find a Link sparring partner and I'm a Rosaluma main.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

The trick is, Destroy Luma. You know why the character is called Rosalina & Luma? Because without Luma, Rosalina is disgustingly underpowered.

I've been testing it all night tonight against a guy who mains R&L. She's extremely difficult to hit and controlling the field is a lot harder with Luma alive. Wait for her to shoot Luma at you, roll the opposite way, and whack Luma off stage. Or while Rosalina is shielded do a dash attack to hit Luma away. Fortunately, it's actually pretty simple to do.

So basically as soon as the match starts, you're not fighting Rosalina, you're fighting Luma. Once you kill Luma focus on killing Rosalina by the time Luma comes back. If Luma comes back, kill it again, and so on. And don't worry about Rosalina countering you because she won't be able to counter much without Luma around.

 

[Teh Sandwich]

Jab -> Usmash is pretty reliable on rosa/luma, and since she is a rather light character, it can kill pretty early.

 

[CSpider31]

I've only fought one Rosalina, but it was an incredibly tough fight. I barely managed to pull out a win. She went more for Fthrows than anything else, and then followed up with aerial pursuits. She used the Luma as more of a distraction than anything else; I would focus on Luma, and that's when Rosalina would start racking up damage. She started expecting the projectiles more, though, so I managed to get in close and rack up damage before I finished her off. I'm not really experienced with this matchup though, so you should look at other people's advice first.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I admit that once you're in the air against a Rosalina you're generally in terrible shape. Trying to to fast fall unpredictably if possible.

Like folks said, ZAirs work very well since she's tall, and FAirs (if placed correctly), can hit if you've made her react to something previously. The good thing about throwing projectiles at her is that they won't come back and hurt you. I'm actually tempted to use a soft bomb throw to bait Rosalina, and I think it'll leave the bomb just sitting on the ground if done properly. This is generally a pretty hard matchup though, and you have to stay very patient as well. I also find getting rid of Luma is nice, as it makes your grabs much safer. Especially after 1.0.4, you get a bit more time to fight Rosalina before the Luma comes back.

 

[dahuterschuter]

Join the club, Rosa is maybe the most tedious characters to battle. Best you can do is out-defense her.

 

[FSK]

**ignore**

 

[FooltheFlames]

With Rosalina's crazy disjointed hitboxes, priority on those moves, and her air game & it's combo ability on Link-
she's still a threat even with out Luma
this is a battle of patience, zoning, and spacing, you can screw with the luma all day with bomb drops and returning boomerangs, but it really sucks becuz the Luma comes back so soon

good thing she is much lighter than you and her recovery, all though long, is still gimpable by Link

the key to this fight is to play as just as patiently as the Rosalina player you're up against, not some aggro style. There is really no other method- all of Rosalina's options are just so great and her roll is so safe it's stupid

I dont find the Luma much of a problem with Link, but like I said Rosalina can still be dangerous and out defense you with out it-
I find Rosalina players tense up and become extra careful with Luma gone, basically waiting for them to come back. Then a times when they've had their Luma for too long and think they are in control of the match, that's when they goof up doing something more risky; take advantage of this false security blanket of theirs

 

[AnTMaN_76]

One way to get a rosalina player is that when she is off stage and uses her recovery to get back on ledge you can bait her out and use a nair or if your good enough hang on the ledge and as soon as she is about to grab the ledge dair her

 

[zeldasmash]

It's a pain. She completely invalidates our projectiles and we can't do anything about her own (Star Bits) other then shield. Rosalina also beats us in the air because her aerials beat ours if they come out first, which most of the time they do, including Uair & Dair. Luma is also another reason it's such a pain; it's because of this thing that we cannot approach Rosalina without risk.

The only advantage we get is if we build enough damage and KO at early percents due to her extreme light weight, but that is a big if due to her invalidating almost everything we got. Also, if Link gets a grab, he can get easy damage of it, but again, it's a mighty big if.

 

[Deployment]

Im going to contribute to the best of my abilities to this board community. I tested this on FD blast zones with no DI and no charge on the smash attacks and the up special. To show and idea when to be aware on when on what to go in certain percentages.

Tilts
Ftilt - 100% around the edge. 128% in the center.
Utilt - 123% anywhere around the stage.
Dtilt - 305% anywhere around the stage.

Dash Attack K.O. in the edge 92% to 93%. Center stage at 119%.

Smash Attacks
Fsmash Hit 1 (Tip) - 91% to 92% in the edge. 112% in the center.
Fsmash Hit 2 - 78% to 79% around the edge. 107% in the center.
Dsmash Hit 1 - 97% anywhere around the stage.
Dsmash Hit 2 - 107% to 108 around the edge. 154% in the center.
Usmash - 89% anywhere in the stage.

Specials
Neutral Special - Uncharged 494% to 495% around the edge. Center is 588%. Charged Bow around the edge is 199% to 200%. Center is 252%.
Side Special - 389% close up on Rosalina(Neutral).
Up Special - (Neutral) 93% to 94% around the edge. Center is 115%. Aerial Version K.O. Rosalina mid jump in the edge 130%. Center stage during her mid jump at 131%.
Down Special - Direct bombs killed at 284%. Indirect explosions killed at 172%.

Aerials
Nair (Sweetspot) -125% to 126% around the edge. Center stage at 151%.
Fair Hit 1 - 137% to 138% around the edge. Center stage at 167%.
Fair Hit 2 - 127% to 128% around the edge. Center stage at 158%.
Bair - 262% to 263% around the edge. Center stage at 330%.
Upair - Grounded Rosalina at 119%. During her mid jump at 108%.
Dair- Grounded Rosalina at 133%. Mid jump was at 126%.

Throws
Fthrow - 206% to 207% around the edge. Center stage at 254%
Bthrow - 205% to 206% around the edge. Center stage at 278%.
Upthrow - 154% at any position of the stage.
Dthrow - 342% at any position of the stage.

 

[emefcue]

Rosalina and Luma can be difficult if you play reckless and rush in. Last week I played against Dabuz in a doubles match and his Rosalina and Luma was the most difficult i've encountered.

I know it was doubles but there were 1 on 1 situations. You have to respect the range Rosalina and Luma have when they are adjacent. Well timed and spaced jabs can help give you stage control and rack up damage. Bombs also are a decent option against Rosalina and Luma because she can't whisk those away like your other projectiles; they just fall to the ground and create walls.

Don't try to challenge her so much in the air. Her huge hitboxes beat ours most of the time. Our grabs are fairly decent on Rosalina because ours is tethered. We don't have to worry about luma breaking our grab since we pull only Rosalina in. Foward tilts in conjunction with turn arounds and baiting out sheilds and jabs go along away in this match up in my position.

 

[Shadow_13]

Rush Rosalina. There is no camping. There is only in your face tactics. FAir is your best tactic because it makes it hard to shield grab. You can also NAir into grab. DAir off the stage if you get her beneath the stage to Stage Spike. Play up in her face and she will have a hard time. Arrows and Boomerangs are there for off stage game just to distract her long enough to gimp. Bombs are for when you are above her. Throw it down, fast fall, and air dodge.

 

[Catana]

Rush Rosalina. There is no camping. There is only in your face tactics. FAir is your best tactic because it makes it hard to shield grab. You can also NAir into grab. DAir off the stage if you get her beneath the stage to Stage Spike. Play up in her face and she will have a hard time. Arrows and Boomerangs are there for off stage game just to distract her long enough to gimp. Bombs are for when you are above her. Throw it down, fast fall, and air dodge.

go away, troll

 

[Shadow_13]

I'm dead serious. Most people play Link wrong in this game and that's why he is considered bad. I have tournament results to prove my point. I HAD a bunch of 3DS replays to also prove my point, but now I only have 1. I can post it if you would like.

 

[Lawz.]

Rush Rosalina. There is no camping. There is only in your face tactics. FAir is your best tactic because it makes it hard to shield grab. You can also NAir into grab. DAir off the stage if you get her beneath the stage to Stage Spike. Play up in her face and she will have a hard time. Arrows and Boomerangs are there for off stage game just to distract her long enough to gimp. Bombs are for when you are above her. Throw it down, fast fall, and air dodge.

Please do not give your "matchup advice" when it is clearly wrong. Fair is punishable by Luma's jab, Rosa's ftilt/dtilt and grab. You also will not land nair into grab (that's laughable) against an opponent with half a brain.

As for "gimping" Rosalina with projectiles, her down b negates them completely and her being floaty and having an amazing recovery means she doesn't have to worry about that at all. Don't even get me started on the genius advice of doing dair offstage against one of the best offstage characters in the game lmao.

Link is considered bad because he has terrible mobility, has a linear recovery, terrible frame data and slow OoS options.

For Glory replays don't count, so don't bother showing them.

And if you're trolling I'm going to infract you. Don't push it.

 

[Shadow_13]

Please do not give your "matchup advice" when it is clearly wrong. Fair is punishable by Luma's jab, Rosa's ftilt/dtilt and grab. You also will not land nair into grab (that's laughable) against an opponent with half a brain.

As for "gimping" Rosalina with projectiles, her down b negates them completely and her being floaty and having an amazing recovery means she doesn't have to worry about that at all. Don't even get me started on the genius advice of doing dair offstage against one of the best offstage characters in the game lmao.

Link is considered bad because he has terrible mobility, has a linear recovery, terrible frame data and slow OoS options.

For Glory replays don't count, so don't bother showing them.

And if you're trolling I'm going to infract you. Don't push it.

This isn't trolling. I'm currently trying my best to prove how good Link is. You haven't played him long enough to know what I am talking about. And like I said... tournament results. As you can see, I just barely joined this site just because I can now challenge others online. I have taken out X, the one who was considered the best Brawl Sonic, his brother Lada, and some other Rosalina player. But, you're right. A man with half a brain wouldn't do the things I do. This is why I win.

 

[Huggles828]

Yeah, no. Approaching Rosa is a BAD idea. Like Lawz said, jumping offstage to challenge one of the best offstage characters is suicide; now if you trap Rosalina off the edge without a jump Link can do a decent job of intercepting her upb which has no hitbox, especially in combination with projectiles, but smart Rosas don't let that happen often. Even then, she edgeguards us way harder than we do her.

You can try to aim arrows above Luma to pop Rosa with, but she can absorb them. Same with boomerangs. You can cook bombs for a few seconds before throwing them, which makes them harder for her to deal with (if she gravity pulls them it lands at her feet and either blows up or only lets her immediately pick it up and toss it if you cook it a little first). Dthrow >utilt does NOT work on her because you will hit Luma first causing hitstun and giving her time to airdodge and punish. Also, if you ever knock Rosa away you need to shield or you will get nailed by Luma flying back to Rosa. Uair strings work very well on Link; bombpulling up in the air is risky because Rosa jumps so high and has a huge uair hitbox that can kill early if you're not careful - be cautious with airdodges that high too because Rosa can read it and delay her uair until she gets the double hit with Luma.

Luma makes this match up much more difficult; Rosa is much easier to deal with when Luma is gone, but it's still hard to press the advantage too much since it's only gone a short amount of time and Link isn't exactly the best at rushing. 35-65 Rosa's favor, MAYBE 40-60 but I think that's kinda generous. Not unwinnable but this is an uphill battle.

 

[Catana]

This isn't trolling. I'm currently trying my best to prove how good Link is. You haven't played him long enough to know what I am talking about. And like I said... tournament results. As you can see, I just barely joined this site just because I can now challenge others online. I have taken out X, the one who was considered the best Brawl Sonic, his brother Lada, and some other Rosalina player. But, you're right. A man with half a brain wouldn't do the things I do. This is why I win.

I was so kind to grant you an opportunity to save face and let you get away with what you said. I made it clear on purpose so that you couldn't possibly misunderstand. Unfortunately, however, it seems that you somehow still failed to realize this.
You're just another delusional scrub on these boards that thinks he can ''prove'' how ''good'' Link is. Most of us here have played him longer than you, have more experience than you, and are just simply better than you. We've been through quite enough people like you, so don't bother thinking you're special or that you're going to convince any of us.

Anyway, where are these tournament results of yours? You seem rather proud, but not proud enough to actually post them.

Unless, of course, you're just a troll, in which case you have entertained me.

 

[Dumbfire]

I HAD a bunch of 3DS replays to also prove my point, but now I only have 1. I can post it if you would like.

lol 3DS

 

[Shadow_13]

I was so kind to grant you an opportunity to save face and let you get away with what you said. I made it clear on purpose so that you couldn't possibly misunderstand. Unfortunately, however, it seems that you somehow still failed to realize this.
You're just another delusional scrub on these boards that thinks he can ''prove'' how ''good'' Link is. Most of us here have played him longer than you, have more experience than you, and are just simply better than you. We've been through quite enough people like you, so don't bother thinking you're special or that you're going to convince any of us.

Anyway, where are these tournament results of yours? You seem rather proud, but not proud enough to actually post them.

Unless, of course, you're just a troll, in which case you have entertained me.

Then let me entertain you in a match. If you play him more than me, you should have no problem winning. And hey, we can do Wii U if you want. Call me a casual, but I enjoy this game for fun. Tourney results are both with Utah Smashers and some collge campus tourney group at Utah Valley University. The game is fun. That's what it is. If I can't prove the strength of "our main" then let's see if you can prove that this character is not what I think it is.

Yeah, no. Approaching Rosa is a BAD idea. Like Lawz said, jumping offstage to challenge one of the best offstage characters is suicide; now if you trap Rosalina off the edge without a jump Link can do a decent job of intercepting her upb which has no hitbox, especially in combination with projectiles, but smart Rosas don't let that happen often. Even then, she edgeguards us way harder than we do her.

You can try to aim arrows above Luma to pop Rosa with, but she can absorb them. Same with boomerangs. You can cook bombs for a few seconds before throwing them, which makes them harder for her to deal with (if she gravity pulls them it lands at her feet and either blows up or only lets her immediately pick it up and toss it if you cook it a little first). Dthrow >utilt does NOT work on her because you will hit Luma first causing hitstun and giving her time to airdodge and punish. Also, if you ever knock Rosa away you need to shield or you will get nailed by Luma flying back to Rosa. Uair strings work very well on Link; bombpulling up in the air is risky because Rosa jumps so high and has a huge uair hitbox that can kill early if you're not careful - be cautious with airdodges that high too because Rosa can read it and delay her uair until she gets the double hit with Luma.

Luma makes this match up much more difficult; Rosa is much easier to deal with when Luma is gone, but it's still hard to press the advantage too much since it's only gone a short amount of time and Link isn't exactly the best at rushing. 35-65 Rosa's favor, MAYBE 40-60 but I think that's kinda generous. Not unwinnable but this is an uphill battle.

Then don't use your projectiles. Be better than her reads. I'll challenge your theory if you would like.